2016 Chatham Cup

There has been a side from Blenheim  over the years but yes quite a few road trips to Chch.

Hi Smithy,

Hello there, ha, I see you have offered up a straw man to knock down and thereby pontificate that an "argument" is silly.

Nice work.

But, okay, I'll bite. Yes, I do have a view on football statutes and rules.

Shocked, huh? Well, (lowers voice) I am subject to them and must work under them. Now, this may come as a surprise to a man of the bar such as yourself, but it is still possible to have a relationship to rules regulations without actually being a lawyer.

In the same way, I acknowledge it is completely possible for football supporters to have a view on the feasibility of travel costs without having to be the one shelling out for them (though it is always good to set out your relationship to an issue when offering advice).

Everyone is welcome to an opinion. But I'm most interested in informed opinions.

And I genuinely would like to hear the views of anyone with a regional league background on this travel feasibility question.

Despite your conclusion, Smithy, I haven't actually argued a proposition here at all yet (though admit I do have a teeny-weeny suspicion that some of the comments here may be a bit specious).

I am still trying to weigh up the merits in what is potentially an interesting discussion.

I regret I don't have enough breadth of knowledge or experience in competition realities down there to have a strong view either way, but as someone who battles with travel demands on a smaller scale up north, am certainly interested in the potential solutions being proferred.

I assume that it for Nelson is already a real challenge to fundraise every year beyond what is budgeted from grant funding, and the travel times to Christchurch would tend to conspire against regulart bus travel. So there are significant geographic drawbacks for a competition where you have a 50 per cent chance of drawing a pretty expensive away trip.

For club administrators it is not so much a Cup as a poisoned chalice. Indeed, the history of the Chatham Cup is littered with clubs who went bust.

But these things may be offset today in places such as Nelson, Gisborne, New Plymouth etc by other factors that I am unaware of, so would once again inquire as to whether anyone opining here speaks with any authority on these matters. (If you're just blowing smoke, that's fine too, of course.)

I do appreciate that from the late 60s to late 70s teams from Nelson competed in the CENTRAL league rather than South Island competitions, which gave them almost a unique status in dealing with issues of travel beyond any other centre, so they may well be better versed than others in how to meet this challenge.

Despite your dismissive lawyer-ly response Smithy, I remain interested in hearing from anyone here with admin experience offering a view on potential solutions, including you.

But put aside a full evening if you want to hear me ruminate on the merits of pro players.

Hope this helps. 

in the old days of central league's 1,2,and 3 there was the travel of Gisborne, Napier and Taranaki clubs  and then Nelson was also a cost as you mentioned above but this didn't last for long as i recall.

Some clubs would find themselves at the start of a new season with high travel costs because of promotion or relegation of other clubs or there own from the previous seasons results and  would then probably hope for a good chatham cup draw that didn't add to that bill.

i know NW had this happen when we only had enough money in the bank to keep the basics running at the club and drew Napier city rovers in round 3 and we considered many options of how we could avoid a default and fine for non appearance when the team members though the coach offered to pay there own way as they wanted to play the game as it is the Chatham cup.

we lost the game by a few but i feel the players did appreciate the experience playing the national league team of NCR and not their central league team.

You do need to cut your cloth according to your needs and commitments and if there is a shortage then you need to make adjustments.

So Nelson not applying to play Chatham cup is there choice based on their budget and i cannot criticise them for doing it.

I do feel the players are the losers in this choice but you want to be able  to also put a team out next year so maybe it is better for the club in the long run.

While no experience at an administrative level I had a number of years playing for Whangarei City in the Northern League. For two years the club also fielded an U19 side in the Dempsey Morton league.

We had a minimum two hours travel each way every week with games also in  the likes of Ngarawahia Hamilton Cambridge Rotorua and Tauranga . Games south of Auckland would involve travelling Friday evening staying in a motel and home late on Saturday. In a typical season, (mid to late 80's) we would have 3 or more of these over nighters which would involve accommodation and meals for 14 players and two coaches in two vans. The regular away trips to Auckland for the other 7 weeks of the season were just the two vans. Pretty sure travel costs for a season were usually 30k plus a season.

A couple of times we went fairly deep in the Chatham cup so added a couple of extra trips. One season I remember trips to Tokoroa and Taupo.

A bit of a ramble but I am pretty sure the club never thought of not entering. We were by no means a wealthy club but always found a way to fund the travel. One pre season I remember the club first team squad doing a 20 mile sponsored run. We sold raffles, we held "Dances" and somehow we managed to do it.

Obviously  the club's call not to compete but I know for a small club there is nothing like the thrill of playing and beating a "big" side and Nelson will be the poorer for not finding a way to make it happen in my opinion.

people aren't offering advice, they're simply giving an opinion. It's likely to be ill informed, but that's the nature of a football forum is it not? 

It's the same as people giving an opinion on a player, even when they've never played professionally before. 

It would be different if they were contacting the club directly and trying to tell them what to do, then you'd expect the person would have some sort of experience to know what they are talking about before doing so. 

Under Chatham Cup regs, NZ Football says that (subject to available finance) it will pay a subsidy to teams required to travel more than 300kms (return) to play in matches from Round 4 onwards, as long as costs are lodged within 10 days.

And from round 4 all home teams pay $250 match fee to NZF, $350 for quarters and $550 for semis, which goes towards the travel subsidy (as does the gate from the final). So in conjunction with the original entry fee, there is quite a subsidy kitty there - though it would not go very far in the case of, say, Nelson copping 5 away games.

Interestingly, in the case of the quarterfinals and semifinals, NZF reserves the right to decide the match venue if it so wishes. Now there's a hand grenade waiting to go off....

I think you are confused never been a Blenheim side in the Mainland Premier League. 

Marlborough United played "Federation 6" Premier League against Chch clubs around the year 2000.

A few fans on Twitter are organising a fan convergence on Taupo for Round 1 of the Cup. Should be fun! Posting here in case anyone feels like joining us. We've already got a few Wellingtonians, JAFAs and Hamiltonians making the trip... https://in-the-back-of-the.net/2016/05/02/cuppy-mccupface/

 

The paragraph in bold is the key one and I thank you for acknowledging that your previous post was wrong. The rest of your post is really just you trying to make me look small. It's not that hard to do, I'm quite inconsequential.

You have, of course and despite what you say here, already formed (and put forward) your position on this, which is that Nelson's travel costs are difficult to fundraise and that the Chatham Cup is "a poisoned chalice" as you put it.

I entirely agree, they probably are, although the marginal increase in those costs to enter the Chatham Cup is probably not much and they clearly have some money to spend so perhaps it's just about where they allocate that money rather than the difficulty they do or do not have in raising it. 

These are arguments that others have put forwards, I don't really care I am just defending their right to have those legitimate opinions.

You implied that folks who weren't doing the do weren't entitled to have any opinion, and I think that is both narrow minded and (as you've now accepted) incorrect.

 

A very good post. Shame Bruce stopped reading after the first sentence, he might have learnt something.

Irrelevant ramble: Shame not to see suburbs in there a club with a proud history. I Remember a third round cup tie at Ellis Park Dunedin circa 2004, we went down 3-2 to a very good suburbs side 3-2 AET. Epic cup tie in the rain, a teenage Jeremy Brockie and Michael White were playing. Think White skinned 4 defenders myself included for the winner, but that is neither here nor there! I can understand "small clubs" concerns with cup entry, however they are likely to be eliminated early doors and it won't cost them a lot. To not have clubs with the pedigree of Suburbs is a downright shame

personally I am not sure I would be interested in playing for a club that chose not to enter the Chatham cup

 

Feeling probably mutual these days Horse.

Wakefield Park will be pumping Saturday night. The Chatham Cup double header - Island Bay v StopOut  and the biggest croud drawing game of the Wellington round Olympic v Miramar.

have the standard 2pm kick offs gone out the window?

Clubs can choose their own times, and the appeal of later kickoffs is that other club members can come back and watch the match after playing their afternoon matches. 

I think it's great to play under lights because it means we can watch more than just a single game on any matchday!

Since turfs and lights a few games have been pushed late over recent seasons letting clubs lower grade teams finish and get to games to watch them.

With good planning I'll get to see 4 games on Saturday.

the kick off over in rapa is on the late side for the travelling team

I think a 1730 kick off in Rapa is a bit ridiculous

Selwyn v Waimak 6pm 14th :)

So who makes the call on an earlier than 2pm kick off?

Yes it takes a long time to get back to  Karori Park 

It's not that far really but to be fair Karori aren't used to traveling out of Wgtn

ah- know it all guy has crawled back

Anywho - pretty clear that an hour and a half journey at 8pm is a pretty shark Saturday night. The turf is used by rugby earlier I think. 

Western Springs have late games up here and they draw a really good crowd, sell lots of food and drinks etc. Can only be good for the clubs imo. My girlfriend has even taken to coming with me to football nerd over late games.

Will it be next round for central football to join capital football. Napier is a fun trip with a 2 pm ko  

Yes

I think we all expect that to change. 

For those complaining about the travel, have a look at the equivalent cup tournament in France.  Teams from all the French Overseas Territories including Tahiti, New Caledonia are allowed to enter.  From the 7th round (where there is a max of one or two team from each of the territories), the draw is open.  So this year Pontivy, a team from the 5th level of football in France drew the away trip to Tahiti.  Fortunately I believe the travel to/from these overseas territories is centrally funded, and the draw is slightly rigged so that these overseas territories don't get consecutive home or consecutive away games.

a 5th tier French team (which is amateur) gets a paid team trip to Tahiti for a game, bet they were gutted about that!

For those twitterers out there, if you are heading to a game, let us know. We want to try build a group of correspondents and do around the grounds.

#UHvBNU #ChathamCup

hey...I didn't spenf 35 seconds creating hashatg for you to butcher them.

oops

I went through the draw and tried to match up when clubs second teams are playing in relation to their 1st team this weekend for the first round of the cup.

Fairly disappointing to see how many second teams won't get the chance to get along and support their club. A lot of clashes.

#ELLvTAK #ChathamCup #NorthernRegion

would be helpful if people tweeted the scores... Not just vague comments

!!

WU/WPX - 7

Naenae - 0