Hey everyone,
Just viewing some of the posts I notice quite a few have comments around the standard of refereeing this season. Without criticizing any of my fellow referees I thought it might be good to have a post where you can query decisions from your games - sort of like an "ask the ref" forum, but hopefully allowing players and spectators to get some idea of the reasoning behind some of the decisions we make or the ways we apply the laws of the game, rather than just regurgitating the rules. So if you have any questions/comments or scenarios then fire away!
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Dear Awref;
I've got a question about how refs. view the differnce between dissent and expressions of dissatiafaction.
At our game last weekend one of the oopositnon players was
apparently sent off "for dissent" for yelling out in frustration. I
considered at the time that the player was just mad at himself for
giving a free kick away, but the ref determined it to be dissent
and he was yellow carded (his second) and subsequently sent from
the field. Now while I was glad that my team now had an extra man
advantage, I can't help feelnig that the ref was a bit over
zealous.
Has dissent become such a major that almost any outburst from
a player is now considered punishable? Even if the player is just
expressing frustration at his own, or hs own teammates play?
Phil_style
Very average player
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I have a question for the ref......
Im my last game, the ball appeared to cross the line for the a
throw, and then come back into play, and the ref carried on
play. My question is "DID YOU NOT f**kING SEE THE f**kING
BALL HAD CROSSED THE w**king LINE YOU f**kING c**t?
f**k! YOU CAN f**kING STICK THE f**kING LINE UP YOUR f**kING
BOLLOCKS YOU BLIND f**kING MUPPET"
Any responses would be greatly appreciated.
All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight
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Frankie - I think you are getting confused between 'the field of
play' and 'the centre circle'. Some players tend to leave the
centre circle during the game..
Founder
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Hi Phil,
It can be quite difficult to give a clear line as to what is
dissent and what is simply a dissatisfied response. As a general
rule a referee will caution (yellow-card) a player if they are
either persistent or excessive in their dissent, or if the
player says or does something which directly challenges the
authority of the referee.
This does not mean that a player should be cautioned
solely for disagreeing with a referees decision. Dissent
is one of those areas which there are two dangers for a referee.
I'm sure as a player you will have had referees who have been
extremely strict and these referees seldom win the respect of
the players. However by the same token a referee who spends all day
being told what a twit he is without dealing with the issue
will struggle to control a game.
As a result most experienced referees will understand when a
player makes a comment it is in the heat of the moment and
calm the player rather than carding them, unless the player is
excessive. Less experienced referees will instead usually turn to
the letter of the law and caution any dissent they hear or
see.
In terms of the scenario you gave a lot depends on what was
said and the manner in which it was said. Personally as a
referee I view carding a player for dissent as a last resort
and most situations can be dealt with in the first instance by
using presence and personality to diffuse the situation
instead.
Sorry I can't really give you a "right or wrong" answer but
hopefully this at least gives you some idea to make up your mind
about the incident
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I have a question for the ref......
Im my last game, the ball appeared to cross the line for the a
throw, and then come back into play, and the ref carried on
play. My question is "DID YOU NOT f**kING SEE THE f**kING
BALL HAD CROSSED THE w**king LINE YOU f**kING c**t?
f**k! YOU CAN f**kING STICK THE f**kING LINE UP YOUR f**kING
BOLLOCKS YOU BLIND f**kING MUPPET"
Any responses would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Frankie,
Sorry I was busy watching the game next door. In seriousness
though if the referee didnt have assistants its highly likely that
he simply wasnt close enough to see it. Whilst that isn't really a
reason to miss a decision, if you have a couple of subs who arent
likely to go on during the half you could always volunteer
them to do a line, which might help stop it happening in the
future.
Either that or the referee did see it and it was just you who
was the ... erm ... "BLIND f**kING MUPPET" 
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phil styles
sounds like your talking about me
capital 5 naenae vs island bay?
if thats the game, it was me that got sent off haha.
sounds like your talking about me
capital 5 naenae vs island bay?
if thats the game, it was me that got sent off haha.
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I like this idea, education is the best way around the problem between referees and players and supports. You get clowns like Tommy Smyth that talk a load of bullocks but because he is on TV people think is his correct. Its like the hand ball, that guy thinks every time the ball hits a player on the hand it has to be a hand ball. a high percentage of free kicks given for this offence are in correct.
Must say the commentators in the A league have a better understanding as tot eh interpretation of the laws. Although Fred might need a little up skilling!
Its the same as "ref i wont the ball" forgetting that the player has wont the ball but cleaned out his opponent in doing so! Things changed and even though you win the ball you can still be playing outside the laws.
But must agree the whole zero tolerance is way over the top!
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phil styles
sounds like your talking about me
capital 5 naenae vs island bay?
if thats the game, it was me that got sent off haha.
sounds like your talking about me
capital 5 naenae vs island bay?
if thats the game, it was me that got sent off haha.
Yup it must have been you mate. That was bizarre. . . . . I
dunno what the ref was thinking. . . parhaps he wasn't. . .
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I like this idea, education is the best way around the problem between referees and players and supports. You get clowns like Tommy Smyth that talk a load of bullocks but because he is on TV people think is his correct. Its like the hand ball, that guy thinks every time the ball hits a player on the hand it has to be a hand ball. a high percentage of free kicks given for this offence are in correct.
Must say the commentators in the A league have a better understanding as tot eh interpretation of the laws. Although Fred might need a little up skilling!
Its the same as "ref i wont the ball" forgetting that the player has wont the ball but cleaned out his opponent in doing so! Things changed and even though you win the ball you can still be playing outside the laws.
But must agree the whole zero tolerance is way over the top!
That is a major problem with the game now - in my view, if you
win the ball, and momentum takes you through the player as well,
that is a great tackle. A copy book, ball and all
tackle. The risk with these tackles is that if you miss the
ball (and obviously that happens a lot, as no one makes 100% of
their tackles), you just plough through the opposition player, and
will get either a yellow or possibly red card, depending on how the
ref sees it.
It sometimes seems now that you have to tackle without
touching the opposition player at all, which involves skilfully
dragging the ball away from them - an impossible feat.
All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight
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too true, that is what FIFA want.... to protect players so they
stay in the game and their careers are not cut short due to players
"destroying" them in ball and all tackes or ever worse no ball all
player tackles.
this is the same with players in NZ no careers but the end of
the day they all have to go to work on monday to make a
living.
its the instruction that has been given to referees that a
lunging tackle ( leaving the ground) are to but stepped on
hard. So what they want is as soon as a player "dives" in and
leaves his feet them are going to b in trouble.
and as for my spelling in my last post!!!!!! TGIF is all i can
say!
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but where do you draw the line at protecting players?
I know a guy whose career was ended when he was sprinting in
one direction, tried to change and nadgered his knee. Do we
stop players from running to protect them?
*I would actually be keen on this rule change*
Two footed, over the ball tackles are outlawed, and rightly
so, but there is a place in the game for the good old fashioned
ball and all tackles. Football is a contact sport, so we have
to ensure that that aspect is not taken away from it, or we will
end up with a sport like basketball, where as soon you touch an
oppostion player, it is blown up.
Sod playing a game where skill is the only aspect to it.
All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight
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Why does every referee always have a bias towards the other team?
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Why does every referee always have a bias towards the other
team?
It's the same as you wanting to beat the other team at all
cost!
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As the captain of a certain Northen League Premier League club, I
have found since moving back to Hamilton the standard of refereeing
is surprisingly poor, at least in Wellington you know what you are
getting with certain referees and I found the standard of
refereeing quite good, but in Hamilton/Auckland the standard is
poor. Unfortunately the referees don't seem to care and wouldn't
approach senior players to get their views on how to improve the
standard, they just stick to the same old routines and it appears
they can't do anything wrong.
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Hi Soley
There are certainly people in the game who have a wealth of
experience which many referees could learn from. Unfortunately in
my experience 99% of all 'feedback' received as a referee from
players/managers is along the lines of "You had a sh!t game ref",
or at least comment relating to one big decision, rather than
a useful conversation about the match.
Personally I would love to be able to have an open
two-way conversation with players/managers after the game
about how the game went, and ideas for ways to improve my
performance, but in reality there are only a few people involved in
the game with the skill to look objectively at a match
which has just finished and be able to give constructive
advice.
I guess if you are in a position to provide that type of
advice I would say go for it, although I would suggest first that
you ensure that your comments are of a general nature, and are
constructive rather than critical. Unfortunately many referees are
slightly defensive when it comes to this type
of discussion, largely because most conversations of that
nature tend to be confrontations but certainly a good referee
will be happy to consider any thoughts from a players, or
spectators perspecive.
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More Players should put there hand up and take some refs courses then help out in the lower leagues or higher leagues where it suits their schedule. They would soon find out how hard it is to watch all the action on and off the ball.
Of all the former players how many have put there time back into the game in a role of a helper rather than a spectator or critic.
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I am in my 40th season as a senior player and have in the past been
a qualified ref. BUT I want to play most weeks. If I
qualify then I am expected to be available to ref games. It
would be nice if I could just ref once a while and mostly continue
as a player (but still be counted as qualified). Possible?
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Hey Awref, can you please clairfy for me the offside rule in regard
to whether an offside player is affecting the play or not i.e. if
he doesn't touch the ball, when can he still be ruled offside.
Can you also please clear my booking from yesterday. ta.
Founder
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Hey Awref, can you please clairfy for me the offside rule in regard
to whether an offside player is affecting the play or not i.e. if
he doesn't touch the ball, when can he still be ruled offside.
Can you also please clear my booking from yesterday. ta.
Straight from FIFA Laws of the Game
Offside Position
It is not an offence in itself to be in an offside position.
A player is in an offside position if:
� he is nearer to his opponents� goal line than both the ball and the
second last opponent
A player is not in an offside position if:
� he is in his own half of the fi eld of play or
� he is level with the second last opponent or
� he is level with the last two opponents
Offence
A player in an offside position is only penalised if, at the moment the
ball touches or is played by one of his team, he is, in the opinion of
the referee, involved in active play by:
� interfering with play or
� interfering with an opponent or
� gaining an advantage by being in that position
And here's one I'm amazed at how many players don't know
There is no offside offence if a player receives the ball directly from:
� a goal kick or
� a throw-in or
� a corner kick
When Hibs, went up, to win the Scottish Cup - I wisnae there - furfuxake!
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I am in my 40th season as a senior player and have in the past been
a qualified ref. BUT I want to play most weeks. If I
qualify then I am expected to be available to ref games. It
would be nice if I could just ref once a while and mostly continue
as a player (but still be counted as qualified).
Possible?
I beleive this is possible dependant on what grades you want
to ref. Check your local Ref's office.
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I am in my 40th season as a senior player and have in the past been
a qualified ref. BUT I want to play most weeks. If I
qualify then I am expected to be available to ref games. It
would be nice if I could just ref once a while and mostly continue
as a player (but still be counted as qualified).
Possible?
I guess it depends on what you mean by 'qualified'. In New
Zealand there are three official qualifications:
1) Local badge
2) New Zealand badge
3) FIFA
In terms of the first two, to my knowledge there is no
particular requirement once you have obtained them to continue
refereeing or to do a minimum number of games per year.
Also, most associations have introductory courses which enable
you to go along and develop a better understanding of the laws
of the game.
Also if you are interested in refereeing but dont want to give
up playing there are youth, college and Sunday league games
which could give you an opportunity to do both. If you do
want a contact person to have a chat with about let
me know which part of the country you're in and I'll see what I can
find
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Hey Awref, can you please clairfy for me the offside rule in regard
to whether an offside player is affecting the play or not i.e. if
he doesn't touch the ball, when can he still be ruled offside.
Can you also please clear my booking from yesterday. ta.
Hi Feverish,
Yes a player certainly can be offside without touching the
ball, in fact it was only recently that he laws were reworded to
require the plaver to actually be "interfering with play" or
"gaining an advantage", in an effort to reduce the number
of off-side infringements.
To describe either of these infringements it is probably
easiest to use examples
1) The ball is half-cleared from a corner,
with attacker 1 lingering directly in front of the keeper
in an offside position about a yard from the line. The ball
falls to his teammate who fires a low shot into the far corner.
Attacker 1 does not move or touch the ball in any way, however
because of the attacker 1's position the goalkeeper is
unable to move to the ball, and a goal is scored.
The goal is disallowed for offside because, although the
attacker did not move toward or touch the ball, he was in an
offside position and did interfere with play (by interfering
with an opponent)
2) During a fast break Attacker 1 enters the penalty area
and takes a shot. At the point the ball is kicked attacker 2, who
has run up in support, is in an offside position at the far
post. The shot hits strikes the advancing keeper and
bounces clear to attacker 2 who taps in the rebound.
The goal is disallowed for offside because attacker
2 has gained an advantage by being in an offside position
(ie by being in an offside position he was in the right
position to score the goal). The fact that the ball was
touched by the keeper, or that Attacker 1's intent was to
shoot is immaterial, because attacker 2's advantage came
directly from being in an offside position and receiving the
ball from a team-mate (although if the keeper had delberately
parried the ball this would not be the case). It is also offside
even if Attacker 2 takes a wild swing and misses the ball
completely, because he has still gained an advantage by being
in that position.
One thing you will notice however, is often a longer delay
between a ball being played and an offside decision being made
by an official. This is largely to do with the change to the law
which states that a player must now gain an advantage by being
in an offside position, whereas in the past a player need only
have been "seeking to gain an advantage".
In practical terms this means that in the past if
a through ball was played to an attacker in an offside
position, as soon as the attacker began to move for the ball he was
seeking to gain an advantage and play was stopped. Now the
fact that the attacker begins running to the ball is not sufficient
to make a decision and the referee must wait until the
attacker has clearly gained an advantage or interfered with play.
Also sprinkled in with that is a little bit of common sense which
says that if for example the keeper is moving towards the ball and
the attacker cannot play it without being offside it is much safer
to stop play before they clatter each other
Whew, so the short answer is yes, you can be offside without
touching the ball, as long as there has been a clear advantage by
being in that position.
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I agree with Soley. Having reffed in Welly since 1998 before moving
up here in 2005, I have now temporarily given up the whistle and am
coaching up here. I always thought the standard of refereeing in
Wellington was generally pretty good and that has been confirmed
since moving here. The standard of refereeing in Federation 2 is
absolutely atrocious, you guys down there don't know how lucky you
are. Suppose you always think your refs are bad, you just don't
realise how good they actually are till you see the s**t that other
Federations have to put up with.
Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.
"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003
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Cheers awref. Becomes a bit clearer. Sounds like they are likely to
be called offside unless they are pretty wide on the pitch. We had
a couple on the weekend, thats why I ask.
Founder
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Whats the rule on obstruction of goalkeepers on corners? It seems
to me that players are getting away with alot more obstruction on
keepers, making it almost impossible to get to the ball.
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phil styles
sounds like your talking about me
capital 5 naenae vs island bay?
if thats the game, it was me that got sent off haha.
sounds like your talking about me
capital 5 naenae vs island bay?
if thats the game, it was me that got sent off haha.
Yup it must have been you mate. That was bizarre. . . . . I
dunno what the ref was thinking. . . parhaps he wasn't. . .
But that ref was crazy and told us the rules about the ball being out or not. He also stated that all our gear had to be in the technical area.
He was great!!!
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Yeah that guy, definitely a strange fellow, turns out hes the new
bar manager at one of the locals I sometimes attend, took a bit of
restraint on my behalf not to have a few words with him after a few
bevvys, didn't recognize me fortunately, a new haircut does wonders
lol
as for the send of, well jeepers, I think he was out for me after the first yellow!! ( which was I'll admit not a great tackle ) and well he got his way didn't he lol.
as for the send of, well jeepers, I think he was out for me after the first yellow!! ( which was I'll admit not a great tackle ) and well he got his way didn't he lol.
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Whats the rule on obstruction of goalkeepers on corners? It seems
to me that players are getting away with alot more obstruction on
keepers, making it almost impossible to get to the
ball.
Hi Steelo
First let me say that it is not an offense for a player to
stand in front of the goalkeeper prior to a corner being taken. A
player has a right to position themselves at any point within the
field of play during a corner (except for an opponent within
10 yards of the corner arc), however it is an offence to impede the
progress of an opponent (AKA obstruction),
including preventing the goalkeeper challenging for the
ball.
To apply this to a corner scenario, an attacker
may position themselves in front of the goalkeeper in an
attempt to win the ball, and has the same rights as any other
player to move towards the ball and challenge for possession.
However it would be an offense if the player
deliberately moved to prevent the goalkeeper from also
challenging for the ball. This would mean that the player is
entitled to stand their ground but not to step into the path
of the goalkeeper for the purpose of preventing them from making a
save.
Referees will position themselves somewhere on or around the
edge of the penalty area, with a clear view of the goalkeeper, in
order to ensure there is no offense on the goalkeeper, or any
players in the goalmouth. This gives a good indication of whether a
goalkeeper has actually been impeded, as well as an opportunity to
identify any off-the-ball pushing etc.
My advice from a referees perspective to goalkeepers if you
feel you are being impeded is to make a clear early movement around
the player in front of you, rather than passively standing
your ground. If the player then moves to block your path they
are guilty of obstruction and (provided the ball is in play) an
indirect free kick should be awarded
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