I found this article about our local football league in my local rag this week and thought the decision making process highlighted was interesting.
Surely there must be more concrete rules than this?
By the way, I don't play for any of the teams mentioned.
From Gisborne Herald ...
NEW Zealand Soccer is to decide the fate of the Eastern League division one league title following an appeal registered by Lytton High School yesterday.
The champions will not be known until October, weeks after the completion of the scheduled season.
Lytton have appealed Central Football's decision to uphold an appeal from Gisborne Marist over the outcome of an abandoned match at Nelson Park on July 26.
The match between Lytton and Marist was called off by referee Rob Whitley in the 61st minute because of ground conditions.
Lytton led 4-2 at the time and due to the match going beyond 60 minutes, Central Football Eastern manager Phil Holt ruled the result would stand, with Lytton getting the three points.
Marist protested the decision but it was rejected by Holt.
They appealed that decision and on Friday Central Football chief executive Milaane Harkman upheld their appeal and ordered the game to be replayed.
Haakman said her decision was to do mainly with "the spirit of the game" and "fair play" rather than various points set out by Marist in their appeal.
The decision meant Lytton lost the three points and went into last weekend's final league games on 18 points as opposed to 21. Marist were on 17 and Wainui Sharks 15.
The Sharks beat Lytton 4-0 and Marist defeated Subway Gisborne City 3-0 to move to the top of the table - two ahead of Lytton and Wainui.
The replayed match would have been held this Saturday, however, Lytton's appeal means it will not be played until October - that is unless NZ Soccer's appeals committee overturns Haakman's decision and gives the points back to Lytton.
Lytton coach Craig Christophers was angry that the original result did not stand.
"On the day there were 14 Lytton guys and whoever from Marist who went down there and played a game of football," said Christophers.
"Both teams had an even chance, a fair chance . . . it went past the point where it was officially a match and a natural result was found."
Marist coach Rendall McDonald said he had little to do with the appeal but was "pretty proud" of the efforts of player Clint Ward in putting it together.
Haakman told The Gisborne Herald yesterday that while 60 minutes was the cut-off for the game to be deemed official, it did not necessarily mean it had to be. It could go for 80 minutes and a replay could still be ordered.
She felt that because the match went only one minute over the official time and considering it was playing a part in the outcome of the league, it was only fair to replay it.
If it had been called off a minute earlier, they would not be dealing with this situation.
There were concerns about whether there was a space in the busy Eastern League schedule to fit in a replayed game, but she felt there was time.
She stressed that referee Whitley "did all the right things" and that ultimately he was putting player safety first.
If the match does go ahead, Lytton and Marist get a dress rehearsal this Saturday as they have been drawn to play each other in the first round of the Bailey Cup knockout competition.
The champions will not be known until October, weeks after the completion of the scheduled season.
Lytton have appealed Central Football's decision to uphold an appeal from Gisborne Marist over the outcome of an abandoned match at Nelson Park on July 26.
The match between Lytton and Marist was called off by referee Rob Whitley in the 61st minute because of ground conditions.
Lytton led 4-2 at the time and due to the match going beyond 60 minutes, Central Football Eastern manager Phil Holt ruled the result would stand, with Lytton getting the three points.
Marist protested the decision but it was rejected by Holt.
They appealed that decision and on Friday Central Football chief executive Milaane Harkman upheld their appeal and ordered the game to be replayed.
Haakman said her decision was to do mainly with "the spirit of the game" and "fair play" rather than various points set out by Marist in their appeal.
The decision meant Lytton lost the three points and went into last weekend's final league games on 18 points as opposed to 21. Marist were on 17 and Wainui Sharks 15.
The Sharks beat Lytton 4-0 and Marist defeated Subway Gisborne City 3-0 to move to the top of the table - two ahead of Lytton and Wainui.
The replayed match would have been held this Saturday, however, Lytton's appeal means it will not be played until October - that is unless NZ Soccer's appeals committee overturns Haakman's decision and gives the points back to Lytton.
Lytton coach Craig Christophers was angry that the original result did not stand.
"On the day there were 14 Lytton guys and whoever from Marist who went down there and played a game of football," said Christophers.
"Both teams had an even chance, a fair chance . . . it went past the point where it was officially a match and a natural result was found."
Marist coach Rendall McDonald said he had little to do with the appeal but was "pretty proud" of the efforts of player Clint Ward in putting it together.
Haakman told The Gisborne Herald yesterday that while 60 minutes was the cut-off for the game to be deemed official, it did not necessarily mean it had to be. It could go for 80 minutes and a replay could still be ordered.
She felt that because the match went only one minute over the official time and considering it was playing a part in the outcome of the league, it was only fair to replay it.
If it had been called off a minute earlier, they would not be dealing with this situation.
There were concerns about whether there was a space in the busy Eastern League schedule to fit in a replayed game, but she felt there was time.
She stressed that referee Whitley "did all the right things" and that ultimately he was putting player safety first.
If the match does go ahead, Lytton and Marist get a dress rehearsal this Saturday as they have been drawn to play each other in the first round of the Bailey Cup knockout competition.
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Hard to call.... I mean if a team was up 5-0 at that stage then obviously the result should stand.... but 2 goals down in a high-scoring match with 30 mins to go....the losing team would still think they were in with a chance. And I agree that with it basically deciding the championship then its a pretty important match.
However, kinda hard on Lytton too, who would have gone into the last match assuming they had won the championship and may have rested players/taking it quite easy...
my 2 cents anyways
However, kinda hard on Lytton too, who would have gone into the last match assuming they had won the championship and may have rested players/taking it quite easy...
my 2 cents anyways
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"Both teams had an even chance, a fair chance . . . it went past the point where it was officially a match and a natural result was found."
I think this is a fairly good point. If the match did go past the time it had to for it to be a game (I always though it was 70 mins but anyway) then surely the result should stand. Perhaps the other side was mounting a comeback at the time but like the Lytton coach says both teams had the chance to be winning at that stage.
Would be interesting to know (while its not possible) if Lytton would have lodged an appeal had they been losing 4-2 at the time the game was called off.
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Just to clear a few things up and share my views on this...
Lytton is my old high school team and my younger brother is the captain of the team now. I know the coach and most of the team pretty well and i know that they were/are absolutely gutted that Marrist protested as this would be their biggest local football achievement ever and these young lads train hard, play good football and fully deserve it.
I also know quite a few Marrist players and after talking to a couple of them it became apparent to me that Marrist were bitter about the decision made to clear all points after the first round which was effectively a grading round involving all senior teams. Marrist were (i think) on top of the table at this point and Lytton were sitting about 4th. So fair enough but a protest was never made about that decision nor has it been mentoned in the Herald.
I don't agree with the decision to replay the match later in the year. Firstly for it to be played in October is rediculous. The teams could be different and you can guarantee the conditions will be. Ok so the conditions will be better but Lytton looked to have dealt with the bad conditions better than Marrist did - maybe thats what Lytton are good at? It's all part of the game.
I just think that Marrist are clasping at straws here because they lost to a much younger less experienced side and lets say 'underdogs' to win the league. However Lytton have improved considerably over the last 4-5 years and are now becoming a strong force in Gisborne football and Marrist (among other clubs) seam to be finding losing to them hard to take.
I think that 4-2 down at the 61st minute mark would be hard to come back from especially considering the conditions and i would put money on Lytton being a fitter side. The result should stand and Lytton should be awarded the league.
TopLeft072008-08-30 17:25:26Fuck this stupid game
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If the rule is that a game "counts" or is official after a certain point (60min, 70min whatever) and a game reaches that point then its hard to see why its being replayed.
I thought abandoned games were replayed? Someone from Wgtn must surely have looked at this pretty closely considering the state of some of the fields this season
I thought abandoned games were replayed? Someone from Wgtn must surely have looked at this pretty closely considering the state of some of the fields this season
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Exactly. If that's the rule and if it's that black and white then it must be said that Lytton should be awarded the points.
Fuck this stupid game
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Assuming the game was played under the Central regulations, then this might apply:
4. Any match abandoned for any reason shall be reported
immediately to The Manager. This responsibility of reporting lies with the Referee, if present, or the Home team. After considering the facts, The Manager may decide that:
a) the score at the time of the abandonment shall stand,
providing a minimum of 60 minutes have been played, or
b) the match will be re-scheduled to another date if time allows.
http://www.soccer.org.nz/global/files/documents/central_league/cl_regs.pdf
looks like the Manager "may decide" either way, so no, no more conrete rules than this
4. Any match abandoned for any reason shall be reported
immediately to The Manager. This responsibility of reporting lies with the Referee, if present, or the Home team. After considering the facts, The Manager may decide that:
a) the score at the time of the abandonment shall stand,
providing a minimum of 60 minutes have been played, or
b) the match will be re-scheduled to another date if time allows.
http://www.soccer.org.nz/global/files/documents/central_league/cl_regs.pdf
looks like the Manager "may decide" either way, so no, no more conrete rules than this
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What was the end result of this?
Profile pic. Should you be interested. Lakhsen, on the right, lost touch with him.
Mohammed, on the left, I'm still in touch with. He's now living in Agadez, Niger. More focused on his animals now as tourism has dried up. Is active with a co-op promoting local goods, leather work and bijouterie, into Europe.
20/5/20
Mohammed, on the left, I'm still in touch with. He's now living in Agadez, Niger. More focused on his animals now as tourism has dried up. Is active with a co-op promoting local goods, leather work and bijouterie, into Europe.
20/5/20
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The last i heard the game is to be replayed in October. I'll post the result on here when that (sad) day comes.
Fuck this stupid game
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Turns out NZ Football ruled in favour of Lytton and they were awarded the Eastern League title.
Fuck this stupid game
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Turns out NZ Football ruled in favour of Lytton and they were awarded the Eastern League title.
I would hope so. Without researching the Central rules - a couple of posters mentioned that it was over the time including the CE. A rule is a rule. If the federations are going to treat them like this we'll end up with footballers sticking their heads up each other's backsides when the ref blows his whistle like that other game. I hope the CE has had her fingers smacked sternly.
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from Gisborne Herald:
Lytton Eastern League champs
Saturday, 25 October 2008
By Chris Taewa
LYTTON High School are the Eastern League division one champions after NZ Soccer overturned Central Football's decision to replay an abandoned game.
A New Zealand Football appeals committee finding in favour of Lytton means it is only the second time the school have won the Roy Hollands Cup.
The first was in 1976 and the last school team to win the trophy were Gisborne Boys' High in 1978.
The committee overturned Central Football's decision to replay a match abandoned on July 26 and ruled the result - a 4-2 win to Lytton over Marist - should stand. The points had been made void, meaning a replayed match between the sides would have decided the title.
The appeals committee criticised Central Football for its decision-making process, pointing to a lack of consultation with Lytton and failure to take into account "relevant facts".
A series of protests and appeals over the abandoned match wound up in front of the appeals committee nine weeks after the final games of the league.
The match was called off in the 61st minute by referee Rob Whitley because of ground conditions and the weather. Lytton were leading 4-2. It was one of two games abandoned that day.
Central Football regulations state that "the score at the time of the abandonment shall stand provided a minimum of 60 minutes have been played" or "the match will be rescheduled to another date".
Central Football regional administrator Phil Holt decided the score should stand because there was insufficient time to reschedule.
An appeal by Marist was upheld by Central Football chief executive Milene Haakman, who ruled the match be replayed. She made her decision "in the interests of fair play" and "due to the importance of the match" in deciding the title.
Lytton High appealed to New Zealand Football, whose appeal committee met on October 20.
Lytton's argument was based on the difficulty of being able to replay the game due to school commitments including exams. They were also concerned that Central Football had made its decision from information provided by Marist but without consulting them.
The committee's final decision was based mainly on the time factor.
"In our view, the matters raised by LHS with regard to difficulty of replaying the game are the most persuasive factors before the committee. In addition, the soccer season has now well and truly concluded and in our view it would be impractical for this game to be replayed."
It criticised the Central Football regional administrator for basing his original decision solely on "the availability of further playing time" and for failing to consider other facts.
The chief executive's decision to revisit the original decision was "merited", but she had only Marist's side of the story and failed to contact Lytton. Also, neither team were "effectively asked" for their opinion or views on the options open.
"Clearly in our view if LHS had been approached then their particular difficulties about fielding a team during exam time could and should have been factored in . . . the decision was seemingly influenced by the standings in the league rather than any other factors.
"We take the view that both the regional administrator and the CEO of CF were wrong in that the decisions they reached were reached without having taken into account all of the facts which were available upon a more robust investigation of the matter."
Lytton Eastern League champs
Saturday, 25 October 2008
By Chris Taewa
LYTTON High School are the Eastern League division one champions after NZ Soccer overturned Central Football's decision to replay an abandoned game.
A New Zealand Football appeals committee finding in favour of Lytton means it is only the second time the school have won the Roy Hollands Cup.
The first was in 1976 and the last school team to win the trophy were Gisborne Boys' High in 1978.
The committee overturned Central Football's decision to replay a match abandoned on July 26 and ruled the result - a 4-2 win to Lytton over Marist - should stand. The points had been made void, meaning a replayed match between the sides would have decided the title.
The appeals committee criticised Central Football for its decision-making process, pointing to a lack of consultation with Lytton and failure to take into account "relevant facts".
A series of protests and appeals over the abandoned match wound up in front of the appeals committee nine weeks after the final games of the league.
The match was called off in the 61st minute by referee Rob Whitley because of ground conditions and the weather. Lytton were leading 4-2. It was one of two games abandoned that day.
Central Football regulations state that "the score at the time of the abandonment shall stand provided a minimum of 60 minutes have been played" or "the match will be rescheduled to another date".
Central Football regional administrator Phil Holt decided the score should stand because there was insufficient time to reschedule.
An appeal by Marist was upheld by Central Football chief executive Milene Haakman, who ruled the match be replayed. She made her decision "in the interests of fair play" and "due to the importance of the match" in deciding the title.
Lytton High appealed to New Zealand Football, whose appeal committee met on October 20.
Lytton's argument was based on the difficulty of being able to replay the game due to school commitments including exams. They were also concerned that Central Football had made its decision from information provided by Marist but without consulting them.
The committee's final decision was based mainly on the time factor.
"In our view, the matters raised by LHS with regard to difficulty of replaying the game are the most persuasive factors before the committee. In addition, the soccer season has now well and truly concluded and in our view it would be impractical for this game to be replayed."
It criticised the Central Football regional administrator for basing his original decision solely on "the availability of further playing time" and for failing to consider other facts.
The chief executive's decision to revisit the original decision was "merited", but she had only Marist's side of the story and failed to contact Lytton. Also, neither team were "effectively asked" for their opinion or views on the options open.
"Clearly in our view if LHS had been approached then their particular difficulties about fielding a team during exam time could and should have been factored in . . . the decision was seemingly influenced by the standings in the league rather than any other factors.
"We take the view that both the regional administrator and the CEO of CF were wrong in that the decisions they reached were reached without having taken into account all of the facts which were available upon a more robust investigation of the matter."
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From the Gisborne herald today:
Coach slams decision
Wednesday, 29 October 2008
By Chris Taewa
THE New Zealand Football appeals committee decision which resulted in Lytton High School winning the Eastern League division one men's crown has been slammed as "an embarrassment to Central Soccer".By Chris Taewa
The committee overturned a decision by Central Football chief executive Milene Haakman to replay a July 26 match between Lytton and Marist which was abandoned by referee Rob Whitley in the 61st minute.
It ruled the result - a 4-2 win to Lytton - should stand, meaning the school won the championship.
The "persuasive factor" in the decision was Lytton having school commitments, mainly exams, which would make it difficult to find time to play the game.
The committee also felt that the season was well and truly over, so to play the match was impractical.
Marist player-coach Rendall McDonald played little part in the appeals saga but was "very disappointed" with the decision.
He took issue with the contention that the students would struggle for time to play the game.
It was only one game which would be played on a Saturday and many of them were already playing in the six-a-side competition.
"They don't have school exams on a Saturday."
To overturn the Central chief executive's ruling was "quite an embarrassment to Central Soccer really".
McDonald wasn't sure if Marist would pursue the situation any further but warned they intended to be back even stronger next year.
"The whole of the Eastern league fraternity knows who the better team were this season," said McDonald, whose side won the first-round trophy and the knockout cup.
"Watch this space."
Lytton player-coach Craig Christophers said having the title decided by a committee "takes away from it a little bit" but believed it was a fair decision.
"I thought our points were valid and justified and I was quietly confident they would hold true."
Christophers said there should never have been any contention over the abandoned match to begin with.
"As far as we were concerned, it was equal for both teams. There was no bias, no one was disadvantaged more than the other."
Christophers reiterated it would have been tough on them to replay the game. They had exams coming up, they hadn't been training and were missing international players, who had returned overseas.
Haakman was disappointed at the appeal findings and the time it took.
"It has taken six weeks to process the appeal which is unacceptable for a fixture which ultimately has decided the winner of the league," she said.
The regulation around the 60 minutes minimum for a result to stand would be revised for 2009 so that this situation would not be repeated, she said.
It raised the issue of points being carried over from the first round, rather than wiping all points and the title being decided on the second round.
Marist, who opposed wiping the points, would have won the league otherwise.
Christophers pointed out that it was a similar situation for them last year. They won the first round, then the points were wiped . . . "so what's the difference".
Marist could argue that this year they would have won the title had points continued whereas last year Lytton would have finished third behind champions Fluid Lounge Thistle and Marist.
Meanwhile, he praised his players for their efforts.
"Thanks to all the boys. They stuck at it after a real slow start."
Centre back Anthonni Hall won Lytton's player and players' player of the year titles while Christophers said Kieran Venema did "a great job" for such a young captain.
Marist's player of the year was Caleb Brown, with Shaun Auckram players' player and golden boot. TopLeft072008-10-29 16:53:54
Fuck this stupid game
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"The whole of the Eastern league fraternity knows who the better team were this season," said McDonald, whose side won the first-round trophy and the knockout cup" - Thought this was a bit funny seeing as though Lytton were beating them 4-2 after 61 minutes After all that's what the whole arguement was based around. That Marrist lot are a sour bunch though so I'm not surprised by those comments lol
Fuck this stupid game
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