Trialist
15
·
83
·
over 11 years

When I controlled the Capital Football competitions, the Kelly Cup was run by CF on behalf of the family who donated the cup, the regs re the cup could not be changed without the explicit say so of the family representative.

Questions should be asked of the family if they are supportive of the current regs that have been forced on the clubs.

Reading the reg re default re the KC comp, there is no mention of fines.

The only mention of the 2k fine is under the league section.

But again who is to blame for letting federations changing regs to what clubs don’t like? The clubs.

It is about time clubs took control of their federations with amendments to their playing regulations at their agm.

Listen here Fudgeface
3.7K
·
15K
·
over 14 years

critter wrote:

But again who is to blame for letting federations changing regs to what clubs don’t like? The clubs.

ummmmmm
Legend
2.1K
·
16K
·
over 17 years

patrick478 wrote:

critter wrote:

But again who is to blame for letting federations changing regs to what clubs don’t like? The clubs.

ummmmmm

yeah nah

Trialist
15
·
83
·
over 11 years

First, I am not defending the decisions and or regs that have been made by CF.

But when was the last time amendments to the playing regs were submitted by clubs to the agm of CF?

All I have heard in the last few years is the moaning from clubs about the crap admin CF has been doing.

What has changed in the last 5-7 years that clubs just stand back and accept the unpopular decisions?

Listen here Fudgeface
3.7K
·
15K
·
over 14 years

critter wrote:

First, I am not defending the decisions and or regs that have been made by CF.

But when was the last time amendments to the playing regs were submitted by clubs to the agm of CF?

All I have heard in the last few years is the moaning from clubs about the crap admin CF has been doing.

What has changed in the last 5-7 years that clubs just stand back and accept the unpopular decisions?

for a start, the AGM was held on April 3 this year, long after the regs stating compulsory entry into Kelly Cup were set in stone. Same with W-League.

Literally nothing the clubs could have done at the AGM to change this seasons regs.

Trialist
15
·
83
·
over 11 years

Playing regs can be amended by the manager or the Agm at any time and if it is the wishes of the members can come into effect immediately

This has happened many times in the past.

What I am saying that there is too much of the “it’s to late now for change” attitude within the clubs.

Legend
2.1K
·
16K
·
over 17 years

there were about 12 clubs who constructed a joint document to state their displeasure at many of the W-League changes. CF didn't give a single fudge about it

Trialist
15
·
83
·
over 11 years

So what are the 12 clubs going to do about it (nothing?)

Legend
2.1K
·
16K
·
over 17 years

give us some advice 

Marquee
1.1K
·
7.6K
·
about 13 years

Feverish wrote:

give us some advice 

Get rid of the DickTator
Stage Punch
2.1K
·
11K
·
about 17 years

patrick478 wrote:

critter wrote:

First, I am not defending the decisions and or regs that have been made by CF.

But when was the last time amendments to the playing regs were submitted by clubs to the agm of CF?

All I have heard in the last few years is the moaning from clubs about the crap admin CF has been doing.

What has changed in the last 5-7 years that clubs just stand back and accept the unpopular decisions?

for a start, the AGM was held on April 3 this year, long after the regs stating compulsory entry into Kelly Cup were set in stone. Same with W-League.

Literally nothing the clubs could have done at the AGM to change this seasons regs.

 

Not a fan of democracy Paddy? Perhaps elect some board members...

And in any case, there's nothing that can't be changed by an AGM motion.

Stage Punch
2.1K
·
11K
·
about 17 years

Blew.2 wrote:

Feverish wrote:

give us some advice 

Get rid of the DickTator

 

Isn't the Karori chairman already on the CF Board? You get out what you put in Greenie.

Phoenix Academy
180
·
290
·
over 11 years

patrick478 wrote:

critter wrote:

First, I am not defending the decisions and or regs that have been made by CF.

But when was the last time amendments to the playing regs were submitted by clubs to the agm of CF?

All I have heard in the last few years is the moaning from clubs about the crap admin CF has been doing.

What has changed in the last 5-7 years that clubs just stand back and accept the unpopular decisions?

for a start, the AGM was held on April 3 this year, long after the regs stating compulsory entry into Kelly Cup were set in stone. Same with W-League.

Literally nothing the clubs could have done at the AGM to change this seasons regs.

It is this sort of attitude that is causing your problems (or perceived problems).   Forgive me for smiling but I wish that things had been this easy, from an administrative point of view, that it appears to be now.

The playing regs that I have seen on the website were reviewed in December 2016 and I assume were published or sent out to the Clubs shortly after.   I'll bet that no one receiving the regulations actually read them as it has been my experience (in football, rugby league and pony club) that people don't read regulations until they need them to find a loophole to get themselves or their club out of the mess they are in.

If the CF AGM was held on April 3, there was plenty of time for Clubs to send in remits regarding matters that they did not agree with.   The inference that the regs were "set in stone" is not true - regulations and rules in most organisation can be changed, altered or biffed out at a General Meeting.

It's a bit like an old saying that the Mad Butcher once used when we were discussing the state of another sport - "the people get the government (or governance) that they deserve".

Good luck.

Legend
2.1K
·
16K
·
over 17 years
Smithy wrote:
Blew.2 wrote:
Feverish wrote:

give us some advice 

Get rid of the DickTator

 

Isn't the Karori chairman already on the CF Board? You get out what you put in Greenie.

Incorrect 

Stage Punch
2.1K
·
11K
·
about 17 years

Feverish wrote:

Smithy wrote:

Blew.2 wrote:

Feverish wrote:

give us some advice 

Get rid of the DickTator

 

Isn't the Karori chairman already on the CF Board? You get out what you put in Greenie.

Incorrect 

 

http://www.nzfootball.co.nz/capital-football-appoi...

Close though.

The Capital Football Board is pleased to announce Paul Houliston has been appointed as the new Chairman, taking over from Chris Canton who resigned earlier in the month.

"Houliston, [has had] a 10-year involvement with Waterside Karori which has involved playing, coaching and serving on the junior committee."

Legend
2.1K
·
16K
·
over 17 years

not even close 

Needless to say no club does or should have control over any CF board member (cough)

Trialist
15
·
83
·
over 11 years

Smithy, it would not be a good look if the chairman’s club submitted remits that go against what the office feels is good for the game, would it?

Listen here Fudgeface
3.7K
·
15K
·
over 14 years

Smithy wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

critter wrote:

First, I am not defending the decisions and or regs that have been made by CF.

But when was the last time amendments to the playing regs were submitted by clubs to the agm of CF?

All I have heard in the last few years is the moaning from clubs about the crap admin CF has been doing.

What has changed in the last 5-7 years that clubs just stand back and accept the unpopular decisions?

for a start, the AGM was held on April 3 this year, long after the regs stating compulsory entry into Kelly Cup were set in stone. Same with W-League.

Literally nothing the clubs could have done at the AGM to change this seasons regs.

 

Not a fan of democracy Paddy? Perhaps elect some board members...

And in any case, there's nothing that can't be changed by an AGM motion.

Democracy is a broken system because people are dumb.
Stage Punch
2.1K
·
11K
·
about 17 years

patrick478 wrote:

Smithy wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

critter wrote:

First, I am not defending the decisions and or regs that have been made by CF.

But when was the last time amendments to the playing regs were submitted by clubs to the agm of CF?

All I have heard in the last few years is the moaning from clubs about the crap admin CF has been doing.

What has changed in the last 5-7 years that clubs just stand back and accept the unpopular decisions?

for a start, the AGM was held on April 3 this year, long after the regs stating compulsory entry into Kelly Cup were set in stone. Same with W-League.

Literally nothing the clubs could have done at the AGM to change this seasons regs.

 

Not a fan of democracy Paddy? Perhaps elect some board members...

And in any case, there's nothing that can't be changed by an AGM motion.

Democracy is a broken system because people are dumb.

 

Dumb and lazy. Yes.

Phoenix Academy
120
·
330
·
over 13 years

ol'sole wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

critter wrote:

First, I am not defending the decisions and or regs that have been made by CF.

But when was the last time amendments to the playing regs were submitted by clubs to the agm of CF?

All I have heard in the last few years is the moaning from clubs about the crap admin CF has been doing.

What has changed in the last 5-7 years that clubs just stand back and accept the unpopular decisions?

for a start, the AGM was held on April 3 this year, long after the regs stating compulsory entry into Kelly Cup were set in stone. Same with W-League.

Literally nothing the clubs could have done at the AGM to change this seasons regs.

It is this sort of attitude that is causing your problems (or perceived problems).   Forgive me for smiling but I wish that things had been this easy, from an administrative point of view, that it appears to be now.

The playing regs that I have seen on the website were reviewed in December 2016 and I assume were published or sent out to the Clubs shortly after.   I'll bet that no one receiving the regulations actually read them as it has been my experience (in football, rugby league and pony club) that people don't read regulations until they need them to find a loophole to get themselves or their club out of the mess they are in.

If the CF AGM was held on April 3, there was plenty of time for Clubs to send in remits regarding matters that they did not agree with.   The inference that the regs were "set in stone" is not true - regulations and rules in most organisation can be changed, altered or biffed out at a General Meeting.

It's a bit like an old saying that the Mad Butcher once used when we were discussing the state of another sport - "the people get the government (or governance) that they deserve".

Good luck.




Sadly there are more points I would like to address...

But I will pick out the above or I will be here all day:

Bold Point 1) Since when was the AGM on the brink of the season the right forum to raise individual league regulations changes/issues?
Captial Football has set up advisory groups (MAG/WAG etc) which are supposed to by look into compeitions and regulations and make recommendations. There are also specific MCL and WCL and Junior nights help at the end of each season where issues are raised and discussed.

Bold Point 2) You have got to be joking. Clubs get silenced, threatened with fines and generally being off-side with Cap Footy doesn't make life fun for a volunteer. Despite this many clubs are off-side with Capital Football; or maybe the other way around. The sad thing is, is that people talking about and discussing these issues is a good thing (obviously second to not having these issues). But what is shows is that the people still care and want things to get better (they have not given up). This should be embraced as a catalyst for change.

Bold Point 3) Assume. That word sums it up. I know that regulations for the W League were not published nor distributed until maybe 2 weeks out from the competition start. That is why when you look back further in this chat you will see fairly recent discussions around 5 'rolling' subs. These regulations were inserted into the Senior Regulations (which has caused other problems).


Recommendations:

Where the system falls down is where there is a lack of (or no) consultation in regards to actual changes. There also seems to be information that is 'lost' because it is sent out via email. Some people are on some mailing lists and not others. Because they bcc everyone you never know who has and hasn't got the message. The newsletter published online is a step in the right direction. Maybe they need more of this type of information sharing.

There also seems to be a lack of 'process' surrounding changes. Particularly regulation changes. There is the MAG and WAG groups and the end of year meetings, but how do these discussion translate into changes? Like who actually 'decides'? Who should 'decide'? Maybe this needs to be clarified in the first instance so people know 'when' and 'where' to speak up.

I would like to see regulations confirmed much much earlier. Perhaps release 'draft' regs prior to Xmas and then 'confirmed' regs for the upcoming season at the end of January? You will never please everyone, but the majority is surely the goal :)

In summary:

More consultation
Communications on website
Outline (or create) the process for regulation/league changes
Set timeframes

This would be a good start no?
Marquee
2.1K
·
6.4K
·
almost 15 years

Kelly Cup.  Upper Hutt premier 0 Palmy Nth 9
Upper Hutt W League 20... yes Twenty Wairarapa 0.

Well thought out comp this.

Phoenix Academy
120
·
330
·
over 13 years

sthn.jeff wrote:

Kelly Cup.  Upper Hutt premier 0 Palmy Nth 9
Upper Hutt W League 20... yes Twenty Wairarapa 0.

Well thought out comp this.

Surely the timing of the game had something to do with it?? Based on their first two games in the league.
i.e Easter weekend

Phoenix Academy
120
·
330
·
over 13 years

sthn.jeff wrote:

Kelly Cup.  Upper Hutt premier 0 Palmy Nth 9
Upper Hutt W League 20... yes Twenty Wairarapa 0.

Well thought out comp this.

Surely the timing of the game had something to do with it?? Based on their first two games in the league.
i.e Easter weekend



Confirmed. Heard tonight that Wairarapa played their entire second squad, not one first team member apparently? Not sure why?
So their second team play in Womens 1 ... so its no wonder the margin was so massive!
Legend
2.1K
·
16K
·
over 17 years

is there no W League this weekend?

Marquee
2.1K
·
6.4K
·
almost 15 years

Feverish wrote:

is there no W League this weekend?

nope
Legend
2.1K
·
16K
·
over 17 years

sthn.jeff wrote:

Feverish wrote:

is there no W League this weekend?

nope

Ah how come?

Legend
2.1K
·
16K
·
over 17 years

sthn.jeff wrote:

Kelly Cup.  Upper Hutt premier 0 Palmy Nth 9
Upper Hutt W League 20... yes Twenty Wairarapa 0.

Well thought out comp this.

Surely the timing of the game had something to do with it?? Based on their first two games in the league.
i.e Easter weekend



Confirmed. Heard tonight that Wairarapa played their entire second squad, not one first team member apparently? Not sure why?
So their second team play in Womens 1 ... so its no wonder the margin was so massive!

Way to throw some players under the bus. Wtf is happening  with this comp?

Marquee
2.1K
·
6.4K
·
almost 15 years

Feverish wrote:

sthn.jeff wrote:

Feverish wrote:

is there no W League this weekend?

nope

Ah how come?

highly important Kelly Cup games?

I guess they don't need double headers with only 15 league games ?

Split Personalities
57
·
520
·
almost 11 years

[/quote]


Sadly there are more points I would like to address...

But I will pick out the above or I will be here all day:

Bold Point 1) Since when was the AGM on the brink of the season the right forum to raise individual league regulations changes/issues?
Captial Football has set up advisory groups (MAG/WAG etc) which are supposed to by look into compeitions and regulations and make recommendations. There are also specific MCL and WCL and Junior nights help at the end of each season where issues are raised and discussed.

Bold Point 2) You have got to be joking. Clubs get silenced, threatened with fines and generally being off-side with Cap Footy doesn't make life fun for a volunteer. Despite this many clubs are off-side with Capital Football; or maybe the other way around. The sad thing is, is that people talking about and discussing these issues is a good thing (obviously second to not having these issues). But what is shows is that the people still care and want things to get better (they have not given up). This should be embraced as a catalyst for change.

Bold Point 3) Assume. That word sums it up. I know that regulations for the W League were not published nor distributed until maybe 2 weeks out from the competition start. That is why when you look back further in this chat you will see fairly recent discussions around 5 'rolling' subs. These regulations were inserted into the Senior Regulations (which has caused other problems).


Recommendations:

Where the system falls down is where there is a lack of (or no) consultation in regards to actual changes. There also seems to be information that is 'lost' because it is sent out via email. Some people are on some mailing lists and not others. Because they bcc everyone you never know who has and hasn't got the message. The newsletter published online is a step in the right direction. Maybe they need more of this type of information sharing.

There also seems to be a lack of 'process' surrounding changes. Particularly regulation changes. There is the MAG and WAG groups and the end of year meetings, but how do these discussion translate into changes? Like who actually 'decides'? Who should 'decide'? Maybe this needs to be clarified in the first instance so people know 'when' and 'where' to speak up.

I would like to see regulations confirmed much much earlier. Perhaps release 'draft' regs prior to Xmas and then 'confirmed' regs for the upcoming season at the end of January? You will never please everyone, but the majority is surely the goal :)

In summary:

More consultation
Communications on website
Outline (or create) the process for regulation/league changes
Set timeframes

This would be a good start no?

[/quote]

You make some good points and i hope you don't burn for your input as they are hunting people who criticise the system on public forums.

I feel you also miss that the control of our federation is not really democratic as the men in the shadows who we don't select have more votes and control so good people who do stand up to do there bit get frustrated with the inability to do the right thing as they are forced to tow the line and keep a united front or resign and let it go….

the MAG/WAG have people on them who have never played the game and where voted on by what method?

though this may of changed since i last checked  but i don't think so.

It is suppose to be a simple and beautiful game but i keep seeing "stupid is as stupid dose"

Especially when it come to Women's football and this annoy's me greatly

Listen here Fudgeface
3.7K
·
15K
·
over 14 years

[/quote]

Sadly there are more points I would like to address...

But I will pick out the above or I will be here all day:

Bold Point 1) Since when was the AGM on the brink of the season the right forum to raise individual league regulations changes/issues?
Captial Football has set up advisory groups (MAG/WAG etc) which are supposed to by look into compeitions and regulations and make recommendations. There are also specific MCL and WCL and Junior nights help at the end of each season where issues are raised and discussed.

Bold Point 2) You have got to be joking. Clubs get silenced, threatened with fines and generally being off-side with Cap Footy doesn't make life fun for a volunteer. Despite this many clubs are off-side with Capital Football; or maybe the other way around. The sad thing is, is that people talking about and discussing these issues is a good thing (obviously second to not having these issues). But what is shows is that the people still care and want things to get better (they have not given up). This should be embraced as a catalyst for change.

Bold Point 3) Assume. That word sums it up. I know that regulations for the W League were not published nor distributed until maybe 2 weeks out from the competition start. That is why when you look back further in this chat you will see fairly recent discussions around 5 'rolling' subs. These regulations were inserted into the Senior Regulations (which has caused other problems).

Recommendations:

Where the system falls down is where there is a lack of (or no) consultation in regards to actual changes. There also seems to be information that is 'lost' because it is sent out via email. Some people are on some mailing lists and not others. Because they bcc everyone you never know who has and hasn't got the message. The newsletter published online is a step in the right direction. Maybe they need more of this type of information sharing.

There also seems to be a lack of 'process' surrounding changes. Particularly regulation changes. There is the MAG and WAG groups and the end of year meetings, but how do these discussion translate into changes? Like who actually 'decides'? Who should 'decide'? Maybe this needs to be clarified in the first instance so people know 'when' and 'where' to speak up.

I would like to see regulations confirmed much much earlier. Perhaps release 'draft' regs prior to Xmas and then 'confirmed' regs for the upcoming season at the end of January? You will never please everyone, but the majority is surely the goal :)

In summary:

More consultation
Communications on website
Outline (or create) the process for regulation/league changes
Set timeframes

This would be a good start no?

[/quote]

You make some good points and i hope you don't burn for your input as they are hunting people who criticise the system on public forums.

I feel you also miss that the control of our federation is not really democratic as the men in the shadows who we don't select have more votes and control so good people who do stand up to do there bit get frustrated with the inability to do the right thing as they are forced to tow the line and keep a united front or resign and let it go….

the MAG/WAG have people on them who have never played the game and where voted on by what method?

though this may of changed since i last checked  but i don't think so.

It is suppose to be a simple and beautiful game but i keep seeing "stupid is as stupid dose"

Especially when it come to Women's football and this annoy's me greatly

I hate the argument that just because you haven't played football at a good level you can't have an opinion/influence on the game.
Trialist
42
·
80
·
almost 8 years

In the Capital Football newsletter

MESSAGE FROM RICHARD REID (CEO)

Well the season’s underway and given the dry winter we experienced last year I suppose it was to be expected that the 2017 season would be different and given what we’ve experienced in the last couple of weeks we best brace ourselves for plenty of disruptions.

I’d like to broach a touchy subject; that of free speech. Social media has grown hugely over the recent past and in all likelihood will continue to do so however I would ask all involved within football to firstly engage their brain prior to committing misinformed criticism to various social media outlets. If you’ve got a gripe come to us, find out the reason why you might be annoyed; believe it or not we don’t deliberately go out of our way to do things that will get up our stakeholders noses.

Decisions we take are always well thought through and communicated to those clubs which they may affect so when members (and in some cases club officials) sound off on social media without any knowledge “urban myth” quickly becomes reality and is simply unhelpful.

I would also add that should there be instances of those who act in an official capacity within the game using social media in such a way that contravenes the NZF Code of Conduct we will not hesitate to take action as we did last season and I am currently dealing with the first one this season.

As always a little common sense goes a long way in alleviating problems, we try to use it every day and respectfully would ask all stakeholders to do similar; thanks much and enjoy the season.

http://www.capitalfootball.org.nz/clubs-overview/c...

Legend
2.1K
·
16K
·
over 17 years

"If you’ve got a gripe come to us"

"We have a problem in that you have scheduled a game in three days time during Easter in a tournament we never entered nor were informed about"

"$2,000 fine if you don't play"

Nearly every women's club submit a joint document stating the issues that have been poorly thought through in the Women's 'review'.

Met with zero response except "ah well you can't please everyone'

Righto

Head Sleuth
3K
·
19K
·
over 17 years

For those of you who can't be bothered reading all that: 

"I'd like to broach a touchy subject, free speech. Under ours and NZFs code of conduct, you have no free speech. So sit down and shut up"

Marquee
2.1K
·
6.4K
·
almost 15 years

Upper Hutt 3 Seatoun 1.

Fairly even game played in lovely conditions at Maidstone. Both teams enjoyed time in the driver's seat but Seatoun unable to come back from two early goals from a more clinical Upper Hutt side

Split Personalities
57
·
520
·
almost 11 years

Feverish wrote:

"If you’ve got a gripe come to us"

"We have a problem in that you have scheduled a game in three days time during Easter in a tournament we never entered nor were informed about"

"$2,000 fine if you don't play"

Nearly every women's club submit a joint document stating the issues that have been poorly thought through in the Women's 'review'.

Met with zero response except "ah well you can't please everyone'

Righto

did all clubs have there first teams included in this competition?????

otherwise what was the criteria to be selected?

i wonder if that playing field is being tilted again?

Starting XI
1.3K
·
2.8K
·
over 9 years

Feverish wrote:

"If you’ve got a gripe come to us"

"We have a problem in that you have scheduled a game in three days time during Easter in a tournament we never entered nor were informed about"

"$2,000 fine if you don't play"

Nearly every women's club submit a joint document stating the issues that have been poorly thought through in the Women's 'review'.

Met with zero response except "ah well you can't please everyone'

Righto

did all clubs have there first teams included in this competition?????

otherwise what was the criteria to be selected?

i wonder if that playing field is being tilted again?

Criteria was all W-League and Cap Prem teams entered (or told they were entered) 

suppose it gives a nice easy number of 16 rather than try and fit the 22 clubs that have women's teams into a draw

Phoenix Academy
120
·
330
·
over 13 years

Did anyone see the PNM 3 - 1 Stop Out game?
Anyone surprised by the scoreline?

Legend
2.1K
·
16K
·
over 17 years

Did anyone see the PNM 3 - 1 Stop Out game?
Anyone surprised by the scoreline?

I think it said in the paper they parked a red bus

Listen here Fudgeface
3.7K
·
15K
·
over 14 years

Feverish wrote:

"If you’ve got a gripe come to us"

"We have a problem in that you have scheduled a game in three days time during Easter in a tournament we never entered nor were informed about"

"$2,000 fine if you don't play"

Nearly every women's club submit a joint document stating the issues that have been poorly thought through in the Women's 'review'.

Met with zero response except "ah well you can't please everyone'

Righto

did all clubs have there first teams included in this competition?????

otherwise what was the criteria to be selected?

i wonder if that playing field is being tilted again?

Criteria was all W-League and Cap Prem teams entered (or told they were entered) 

suppose it gives a nice easy number of 16 rather than try and fit the 22 clubs that have women's teams into a draw

22 clubs is easy. Take the 12 lowest ranked sides, play them off against each other and boom, you have 16 teams left.

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