Jack McKnight Jnr Champs 2013

Underway today for the 42nd year here in Nelson.  Cheers Nelson Bays Football.  Pitches are awesome - good vibe between teams.  Coaches even have technical areas!!  Teams that are smoking after day 1 - Nelson, Selwyn, FC Twenty 11 and Cashmere.

this is the 10th Grade comp?

Mainland no show so a couple of clubs sent there first teams up from Chch.

I have never heard of this tournament? Is there a website or some more info you can give the world?

Only this Smitty:  http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/sport/9225801/Nelson-sides-great-starters-in-tournament.  Its a great old tournie most of the coaches can remember playing in it.....  M'boy's team just bundled out on penalties..tears and heartbroken 10 year olds.

It is better for youngsters to play extra time (sudden death if time is short) and to count corners in extra time. The brilliant Coastlands Cup for juniors run by Raumati Hearts for many years counted corners and it was much fairer and better and less tense for kids than a penalty shoot. Lest anyone think the idea of corners comes from Mars or Uranus, let me tell you it was used in the Chatham Cup (no kidding, it's true) up to about 1960.

I recognise this name. Played in it for Wellington about 25 years ago. 

(Also lost the final of the coastlands cup with Karori hornets when our player didn't know the corner rule and played it out when he didn't need to)

Karori Swifts players with the Coastlands Cup which was not actually a cup. Can you spot a future All White?

The dog?

How good is that Road Duel tee shirt in the back. And the barnet back left.

Appalling showing by Canterbury's teams in the 11s. With the numbers they have at their disposal they should win that tournament (or make the final) every year.

What's going on with that? 

Very few parents happy with the standard of coaching. A lot of players looking like they shouldn't be there.

The dog played left wing. Scored 4 goals and 10 assists most seasons. The future AW is in blue with bare feet in front row -- Duncan Oughton. The dog's owner today is a prominent heart surgeon (true). 

Two appleton brothers in that photo....Must be mixed  years. I thought they were called the Royals (As a swift member myself)

Well spotted. Karori won two grades at Coastlands that year so the boys in the photo are from two years/teams. The trophy was awarded on results in six age grades. 

Hi Stretford. Yes I know that they don't select A, B and C squads (which I agree with btw). The previous years' squads have still been far superior in terms of quality, despite the short coaching period. They were better players to start with...

You can still get teams playing good football in such a short period of time if you actually know how to coach.I suggest there are serious issues with the selection process and the quality of the coaches.

Hi Foal30

Oh I'm quite capable of being polite, but polite is what you do around your grandmother, not when you need something done.

one of the 4 11th Grade Coaches I don't know/ have never worked with

1 of the 4 teams coaches is exactly the sort of young guys we need to bring in. No pick my son BS or club allegiance hang-ups.

1 of the Coaches is the FDO for the 2nd biggest club in the city and reserve/assistant coach for the Dragons!  So I'm interested in how one would go about up-skilling Tetso.

It's probably fair to say player quality does vary from year to year but is seldom overtly noticeable. Do you really think this years selected 11's were that poor?

Yes, I know Tetso, but not very well. Very nice, knowledgeable guy. I'd simply caution anyone that the skills required to coach seniors aren't necessarily what's required to coach juniors, unfortunately. There's more to coaching than just knowing a bunch of football stuff, otherwise every internet browser could become a top coach. I have several friends who do well as senior coaches but couldn't coach little kids to save themselves. I also know coaches in the reverse situation.

You also have to have the ability to relate to the age-group you're dealing with. I don't know, maybe Tetso can do it, maybe not. I haven't seen any of his sessions so I can't really say.

In the end, qualifications are simply proof you passed a course at one time.

Yes, it is quite noticeable this year. 

The selection process is completely flawed for a start. Small-Sided Games are insufficient to give a complete understanding of a player's abilities are. They're an essential component for sure, but many technically-excellent children do not show up well in SSGs because they're small or weak. Some kids who play well in SSGs do so because they're bigger/faster/stronger due to the Relative Age Effect (where a 1st Quarter baby can be up to 11 months older than a 4th - a huge development gap at that age), but technically they're quite poor. I see this all the time on Saturdays. But the Big Kids 'win games' so everybody's blinded to the reality. And we lose the best players because we're obssessed with winning as the only measure of success.

Professional academies also rely on a pure technical assessment, as well as several conditioned SSGs. 

This gives them a much broader picture of the player and helps eliminate the tendency to just pick the big/fast/strong 'winners'.

It's not difficult to do, it just takes a little more time. Mainland have paid staff. Why aren't they doing this? Or training others to do it?

Where's the NZF player profile? The WOFP has been out for a couple of years now. Surely someone's had time to at least come up with an idea? Why is one kid picked over another?

It's all just opinions at the moment, and you know what they say about opinions...

So I guess your son/daughter didn't get in then. That is probably disappointing for them, but it doesn't mean the process is flawed. It just means your child isn't good enough. And as your child cannot possibly be your grandmother, you might consider telling them the truth rather than being polite or diplomatic.

Let us know how that conversation goes yeah?

Wow. Totally missed this thread.

Are we seriously arguing over 10th grade coaching, selection and players?

Things are dire indeed.

Actually he did get in, so that wrecks your argument entirely. The process is still flawed. I said 'flawed', not ENTIRELY WRONG.

If you don't know what a 'technical assessment' looks like you're better off not discussing coaching, because a coach would know what one is.

And VimFiego, yes we are - it's a good time to start getting things rightOr do we wait until 15th grade or maybe seniors to start doing things properly?

Overseas the top clubs select from six years old and they're turning out more top players than we are.

Heh. Okay. I stand corrected.

Just returned from that tourny.  Final was between Otago and Nelson - BIG kids on display.  Thought I was watching a 13th grade game.  Neither team had a creative player, rather two defences just cancelled each other out.  Had expected to see an end to end final game, as in the past.

tell those dominant kids to play 2 touch

Coach the coaches.

Clubs should be coaching their own coaches (working in conjunction with FDOs). Feck, i sound like a Mainland staffer.

How many clubs are doing that?  Most clubs are crying out for coaches, and the 'Pub Club's' regard them as little more than child minders.  Some clubs are getting organised but they are a minority.  Mainland - the only way through that door is to be a failed import.