Mainland Juniors (please play nice)

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Ronaldoknow wrote:
Stretford End wrote:

Rep player 1 speaking to rep player 2: "oi bro, you should come and play with my club, we're going to some tournament up north; it's gonna be mean as!"
Rep player 2: "yeah maybe, who's the coach?"
Player 1: that dude we had for the reps
Player 2: oh him, yeah he's the business, who else is in the team?
Player 1: heaps of the boiz you know - from school, from reps, from FTC, from when we played at that club when we was kids
Player 2: sick bro, see you at training
Player 1: churr

Nek minnit: moaning on yellow fever forums

Now that's a player development programme worth its weight in gold :) Cheap as and no having to employ staff or reinvent the wheel, cheers SE.

 Actually when you think about it Bays are spending about half what some clubs spend on development to try and win the MPL. Who's right and who's wrong?

So true  - They are two very different things.  If winning is your objective then attracting players at a cost less than having to spend on developing your own ones is the way to go. It's a bit like looking up the answers in the back of the exercise book - you can get a 100% score every time.
Some clubs (probably not that many) wouldn't see  the fun in that.
November 19, 2013 05:59
grizly
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over 11 years
Ronaldoknow wrote:
Stretford End wrote:

Rep player 1 speaking to rep player 2: "oi bro, you should come and play with my club, we're going to some tournament up north; it's gonna be mean as!"
Rep player 2: "yeah maybe, who's the coach?"
Player 1: that dude we had for the reps
Player 2: oh him, yeah he's the business, who else is in the team?
Player 1: heaps of the boiz you know - from school, from reps, from FTC, from when we played at that club when we was kids
Player 2: sick bro, see you at training
Player 1: churr

Nek minnit: moaning on yellow fever forums

Now that's a player development programme worth its weight in gold :) Cheap as and no having to employ staff or reinvent the wheel, cheers SE.

 Actually when you think about it Bays are spending about half what some clubs spend on development to try and win the MPL. Who's right and who's wrong?


Love it !
November 19, 2013 09:31
Prickly Thistle
Phoenix Academy
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almost 11 years

No doubt it is a mess and in the end it is all clubs with junior development programs and / or endeavouring to produce an environment with competitive opportunities for players within a solid team structure that suffer.

The successful overseas programmes are individually based but in a team environment.

Players develop whilst testing their abilities regularly with players of similar ability levels and game understanding against others (usually clubs) with similar aims..

Mainland pull players out of the clubs (who hold their registrations) put them through their program (not a NZF Curriculum) dictate their workload, all whilst disrupting the club's efforts to cater for the rest of the team and club members.

A program judging by its results limited to technical and physical development. Other than Goal keeping, no specific positional development or game understanding. 

Keep hearing they are serving the requirements of N Z Football. I thought they were in place to service the requirements of the clubs in their Federation.

There seems to be a "no responsibility to the clubs attitude" when dealing with the clubs players. No we do not own them (the players) neither do Mainland, we do at least hold their registrations, they are our members.

Mainland dropped the ball on providing North Island competition for our junior players, a number of clubs picked it up. Mainland decide to get off their backsides after 5 years and organise an Inter Federation  (FTC) tournament. Players have evidently been selected. Any clubs notified ?  No chance.

 Coaches trying at club level to  organise preparations for their own tournaments are not even considered. No respect or consideration for those working outside their programs.

$800,000 is a big wage bill, surely we should expect a little more, after all we (our members) are paying it.   

November 19, 2013 10:11
Prickly Thistle
Phoenix Academy
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210
·
almost 11 years
grizly wrote:
Ronaldoknow wrote:
Stretford End wrote:

Rep player 1 speaking to rep player 2: "oi bro, you should come and play with my club, we're going to some tournament up north; it's gonna be mean as!"
Rep player 2: "yeah maybe, who's the coach?"
Player 1: that dude we had for the reps
Player 2: oh him, yeah he's the business, who else is in the team?
Player 1: heaps of the boiz you know - from school, from reps, from FTC, from when we played at that club when we was kids
Player 2: sick bro, see you at training
Player 1: churr

Nek minnit: moaning on yellow fever forums

Now that's a player development programme worth its weight in gold :) Cheap as and no having to employ staff or reinvent the wheel, cheers SE.

 Actually when you think about it Bays are spending about half what some clubs spend on development to try and win the MPL. Who's right and who's wrong?


Love it !

Replace Player 1 with the coach and it sounds pretty accurate bro.

November 19, 2013 10:13
Global Game
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Prickly Thistle wrote:

No doubt it is a mess and in the end it is all clubs with junior development programs and / or endeavouring to produce an environment with competitive opportunities for players within a solid team structure that suffer.

The successful overseas programmes are individually based but in a team environment.

Players develop whilst testing their abilities regularly with players of similar ability levels and game understanding against others (usually clubs) with similar aims..

Mainland pull players out of the clubs (who hold their registrations) put them through their program (not a NZF Curriculum) dictate their workload, all whilst disrupting the club's efforts to cater for the rest of the team and club members.

A program judging by its results limited to technical and physical development. Other than Goal keeping, no specific positional development or game understanding. 

Keep hearing they are serving the requirements of N Z Football. I thought they were in place to service the requirements of the clubs in their Federation.

There seems to be a "no responsibility to the clubs attitude" when dealing with the clubs players. No we do not own them (the players) neither do Mainland, we do at least hold their registrations, they are our members.

Mainland dropped the ball on providing North Island competition for our junior players, a number of clubs picked it up. Mainland decide to get off their backsides after 5 years and organise an Inter Federation  (FTC) tournament. Players have evidently been selected. Any clubs notified ?  No chance.

 Coaches trying at club level to  organise preparations for their own tournaments are not even considered. No respect or consideration for those working outside their programs.

$800,000 is a big wage bill, surely we should expect a little more, after all we (our members) are paying it.   


Hey prickly, i actually agree with much of this - especially about lack of communication, co-operation, collaboration with clubs. I do think however that club-only development programme is generally not sufficient either.
November 19, 2013 10:28 · Edited November 19, 2013 10:29
Scottie Rd
First Team Squad
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Ronaldoknow wrote:
Stretford End wrote:

Rep player 1 speaking to rep player 2: "oi bro, you should come and play with my club, we're going to some tournament up north; it's gonna be mean as!"
Rep player 2: "yeah maybe, who's the coach?"
Player 1: that dude we had for the reps
Player 2: oh him, yeah he's the business, who else is in the team?
Player 1: heaps of the boiz you know - from school, from reps, from FTC, from when we played at that club when we was kids
Player 2: sick bro, see you at training
Player 1: churr

Nek minnit: moaning on yellow fever forums

Now that's a player development programme worth its weight in gold :) Cheap as and no having to employ staff or reinvent the wheel, cheers SE.

 Actually when you think about it Bays are spending about half what some clubs spend on development to try and win the MPL. Who's right and who's wrong?


Which club will be the first to do away with the junior side of the club? 
Easier to run only a senior section, less person power needed less equipment and pitches etc. How many junior parents get involved in the running of a club pro rata numbers?
Taking cricket in Canterbury as a case we have St Albans CC who have not had a junior boys set up and have been one of the leading clubs in that sport for years.
Take the other area and you have one if not the biggest junior section with BWUCC and they struggle at senior level to be at the top for more than a year at a time.
November 19, 2013 11:16
Global Game
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Scottie Rd wrote:
Ronaldoknow wrote:
Stretford End wrote:

Rep player 1 speaking to rep player 2: "oi bro, you should come and play with my club, we're going to some tournament up north; it's gonna be mean as!"
Rep player 2: "yeah maybe, who's the coach?"
Player 1: that dude we had for the reps
Player 2: oh him, yeah he's the business, who else is in the team?
Player 1: heaps of the boiz you know - from school, from reps, from FTC, from when we played at that club when we was kids
Player 2: sick bro, see you at training
Player 1: churr

Nek minnit: moaning on yellow fever forums

Now that's a player development programme worth its weight in gold :) Cheap as and no having to employ staff or reinvent the wheel, cheers SE.

 Actually when you think about it Bays are spending about half what some clubs spend on development to try and win the MPL. Who's right and who's wrong?


Which club will be the first to do away with the junior side of the club? 

Easier to run only a senior section, less person power needed less equipment and pitches etc. How many junior parents get involved in the running of a club pro rata numbers?

Taking cricket in Canterbury as a case we have St Albans CC who have not had a junior boys set up and have been one of the leading clubs in that sport for years.

Take the other area and you have one if not the biggest junior section with BWUCC and they struggle at senior level to be at the top for more than a year at a time.


Not sure if junior cricket is the best analogy because the schools/establishment OWN youth cricket; but a valid question for sure.
Bays pretty much give it away from 13th-18th grade, though I see they have a Nike Cup entry in 2014 so that's a bit of a first for them.
The thing is, I reckon a national club league will eventually make its way back and there will be different criteria for that (and junior club won't necessarily be part of it at all; though there has been recent media talk of a national JUNIOR club league but that is probably dream-land stuff). Chch may get a couple of teams and all other clubs effectively become feeders to them (think Auckland Central/ACFC).
November 19, 2013 11:28
Ronaldoknow
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Scottie Rd wrote:
Ronaldoknow wrote:
Stretford End wrote:

Rep player 1 speaking to rep player 2: "oi bro, you should come and play with my club, we're going to some tournament up north; it's gonna be mean as!"
Rep player 2: "yeah maybe, who's the coach?"
Player 1: that dude we had for the reps
Player 2: oh him, yeah he's the business, who else is in the team?
Player 1: heaps of the boiz you know - from school, from reps, from FTC, from when we played at that club when we was kids
Player 2: sick bro, see you at training
Player 1: churr

Nek minnit: moaning on yellow fever forums

Now that's a player development programme worth its weight in gold :) Cheap as and no having to employ staff or reinvent the wheel, cheers SE.

 Actually when you think about it Bays are spending about half what some clubs spend on development to try and win the MPL. Who's right and who's wrong?


Which club will be the first to do away with the junior side of the club? 

Easier to run only a senior section, less person power needed less equipment and pitches etc. How many junior parents get involved in the running of a club pro rata numbers?

Taking cricket in Canterbury as a case we have St Albans CC who have not had a junior boys set up and have been one of the leading clubs in that sport for years.

Take the other area and you have one if not the biggest junior section with BWUCC and they struggle at senior level to be at the top for more than a year at a time.

Point taken Scottie but cricket is not structured the same as football, clubs readily concede to schools at the end of year 8. Wonder what the impact on their numbers has been with the advent of year round football, rugby season running into the start of summer etc? Would be interested to know their comparable numbers over the last 10 years. Whereas the strength of football is in juniors and masters. Much easier to go and watch little Johnny play for 45 minutes in the middle of winter than take a whole day out at the height of the good weather to watch him get run out without facing a ball then drop a sitter in the outfield never get to bowl :)
November 19, 2013 11:30
Ronaldoknow
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Stretford End wrote:
Scottie Rd wrote:
Ronaldoknow wrote:
Stretford End wrote:

Rep player 1 speaking to rep player 2: "oi bro, you should come and play with my club, we're going to some tournament up north; it's gonna be mean as!"
Rep player 2: "yeah maybe, who's the coach?"
Player 1: that dude we had for the reps
Player 2: oh him, yeah he's the business, who else is in the team?
Player 1: heaps of the boiz you know - from school, from reps, from FTC, from when we played at that club when we was kids
Player 2: sick bro, see you at training
Player 1: churr

Nek minnit: moaning on yellow fever forums

Now that's a player development programme worth its weight in gold :) Cheap as and no having to employ staff or reinvent the wheel, cheers SE.

 Actually when you think about it Bays are spending about half what some clubs spend on development to try and win the MPL. Who's right and who's wrong?


Which club will be the first to do away with the junior side of the club? 

Easier to run only a senior section, less person power needed less equipment and pitches etc. How many junior parents get involved in the running of a club pro rata numbers?

Taking cricket in Canterbury as a case we have St Albans CC who have not had a junior boys set up and have been one of the leading clubs in that sport for years.

Take the other area and you have one if not the biggest junior section with BWUCC and they struggle at senior level to be at the top for more than a year at a time.


Not sure if junior cricket is the best analogy because the schools/establishment OWN youth cricket; but a valid question for sure.
Bays pretty much give it away from 13th-18th grade, though I see they have a Nike Cup entry in 2014 so that's a bit of a first for them.
The thing is, I reckon a national club league will eventually make its way back and there will be different criteria for that (and junior club won't necessarily be part of it at all; though there has been recent media talk of a national JUNIOR club league but that is probably dream-land stuff). Chch may get a couple of teams and all other clubs effectively become feeders to them (think Auckland Central/ACFC).
Agree SE, part of the criteria for entering the MPL should be that you have junior clubs and development focus to prevent clubs paying players, this will become more apparent as the Clubmark Qualification roles out, interesting to see that one of the 2 clubs to already receive Bronze don't have a girls or women's team so maybe Bronze is as far as they can go with that? Good to hear Bays are in the Nike Cup and also going to Kanga but when you hear Danny Halligan has a $40k budget to attract and retain players seems kinda counter productive. The federations role in all of this should be to create the environment for growth/achievement then support it, not take ownership of it as is the case currently. They are too hands on and lack foresight.
November 19, 2013 11:42
Prickly Thistle
Phoenix Academy
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210
·
almost 11 years
Stretford End wrote:
Prickly Thistle wrote:

No doubt it is a mess and in the end it is all clubs with junior development programs and / or endeavouring to produce an environment with competitive opportunities for players within a solid team structure that suffer.

The successful overseas programmes are individually based but in a team environment.

Players develop whilst testing their abilities regularly with players of similar ability levels and game understanding against others (usually clubs) with similar aims..

Mainland pull players out of the clubs (who hold their registrations) put them through their program (not a NZF Curriculum) dictate their workload, all whilst disrupting the club's efforts to cater for the rest of the team and club members.

A program judging by its results limited to technical and physical development. Other than Goal keeping, no specific positional development or game understanding. 

Keep hearing they are serving the requirements of N Z Football. I thought they were in place to service the requirements of the clubs in their Federation.

There seems to be a "no responsibility to the clubs attitude" when dealing with the clubs players. No we do not own them (the players) neither do Mainland, we do at least hold their registrations, they are our members.

Mainland dropped the ball on providing North Island competition for our junior players, a number of clubs picked it up. Mainland decide to get off their backsides after 5 years and organise an Inter Federation  (FTC) tournament. Players have evidently been selected. Any clubs notified ?  No chance.

 Coaches trying at club level to  organise preparations for their own tournaments are not even considered. No respect or consideration for those working outside their programs.

$800,000 is a big wage bill, surely we should expect a little more, after all we (our members) are paying it.   


Hey prickly, i actually agree with much of this - especially about lack of communication, co-operation, collaboration with clubs. I do think however that club-only development programme is generally not sufficient either.

But with some of the resources currently swallowed up by Mainland (coaching & financial) why not? What is currently happening at ASB can certainly be easily matched by at least 5 entities in Canterbury. Opportunities for higher level development would come from the cooperation of these entities and a valid representative programme.  A club with 10 members in the FTC are contributing $10,000 per annum. Coaches picking up their $40 or $50 a session could do so from the clubs.

November 19, 2013 11:59
Prickly Thistle
Phoenix Academy
46
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210
·
almost 11 years
Ronaldoknow wrote:
Stretford End wrote:
Scottie Rd wrote:
Ronaldoknow wrote:
Stretford End wrote:

Rep player 1 speaking to rep player 2: "oi bro, you should come and play with my club, we're going to some tournament up north; it's gonna be mean as!"
Rep player 2: "yeah maybe, who's the coach?"
Player 1: that dude we had for the reps
Player 2: oh him, yeah he's the business, who else is in the team?
Player 1: heaps of the boiz you know - from school, from reps, from FTC, from when we played at that club when we was kids
Player 2: sick bro, see you at training
Player 1: churr

Nek minnit: moaning on yellow fever forums

Now that's a player development programme worth its weight in gold :) Cheap as and no having to employ staff or reinvent the wheel, cheers SE.

 Actually when you think about it Bays are spending about half what some clubs spend on development to try and win the MPL. Who's right and who's wrong?


Which club will be the first to do away with the junior side of the club? 

Easier to run only a senior section, less person power needed less equipment and pitches etc. How many junior parents get involved in the running of a club pro rata numbers?

Taking cricket in Canterbury as a case we have St Albans CC who have not had a junior boys set up and have been one of the leading clubs in that sport for years.

Take the other area and you have one if not the biggest junior section with BWUCC and they struggle at senior level to be at the top for more than a year at a time.


Not sure if junior cricket is the best analogy because the schools/establishment OWN youth cricket; but a valid question for sure.
Bays pretty much give it away from 13th-18th grade, though I see they have a Nike Cup entry in 2014 so that's a bit of a first for them.
The thing is, I reckon a national club league will eventually make its way back and there will be different criteria for that (and junior club won't necessarily be part of it at all; though there has been recent media talk of a national JUNIOR club league but that is probably dream-land stuff). Chch may get a couple of teams and all other clubs effectively become feeders to them (think Auckland Central/ACFC).
Agree SE, part of the criteria for entering the MPL should be that you have junior clubs and development focus to prevent clubs paying players, this will become more apparent as the Clubmark Qualification roles out, interesting to see that one of the 2 clubs to already receive Bronze don't have a girls or women's team so maybe Bronze is as far as they can go with that? Good to hear Bays are in the Nike Cup and also going to Kanga but when you hear Danny Halligan has a $40k budget to attract and retain players seems kinda counter productive. The federations role in all of this should be to create the environment for growth/achievement then support it, not take ownership of it as is the case currently. They are too hands on and lack foresight.

I know it is tough for some clubs to retain junior development but it is fundamental to the future of our game. If we all ignored the juniors our senior game would also fall apart as a viable competitive sport.

November 19, 2013 12:04
Global Game
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Prickly Thistle wrote:
Ronaldoknow wrote:
Stretford End wrote:
Scottie Rd wrote:
Ronaldoknow wrote:
Stretford End wrote:

Rep player 1 speaking to rep player 2: "oi bro, you should come and play with my club, we're going to some tournament up north; it's gonna be mean as!"
Rep player 2: "yeah maybe, who's the coach?"
Player 1: that dude we had for the reps
Player 2: oh him, yeah he's the business, who else is in the team?
Player 1: heaps of the boiz you know - from school, from reps, from FTC, from when we played at that club when we was kids
Player 2: sick bro, see you at training
Player 1: churr

Nek minnit: moaning on yellow fever forums

Now that's a player development programme worth its weight in gold :) Cheap as and no having to employ staff or reinvent the wheel, cheers SE.

 Actually when you think about it Bays are spending about half what some clubs spend on development to try and win the MPL. Who's right and who's wrong?


Which club will be the first to do away with the junior side of the club? 

Easier to run only a senior section, less person power needed less equipment and pitches etc. How many junior parents get involved in the running of a club pro rata numbers?

Taking cricket in Canterbury as a case we have St Albans CC who have not had a junior boys set up and have been one of the leading clubs in that sport for years.

Take the other area and you have one if not the biggest junior section with BWUCC and they struggle at senior level to be at the top for more than a year at a time.


Not sure if junior cricket is the best analogy because the schools/establishment OWN youth cricket; but a valid question for sure.
Bays pretty much give it away from 13th-18th grade, though I see they have a Nike Cup entry in 2014 so that's a bit of a first for them.
The thing is, I reckon a national club league will eventually make its way back and there will be different criteria for that (and junior club won't necessarily be part of it at all; though there has been recent media talk of a national JUNIOR club league but that is probably dream-land stuff). Chch may get a couple of teams and all other clubs effectively become feeders to them (think Auckland Central/ACFC).
Agree SE, part of the criteria for entering the MPL should be that you have junior clubs and development focus to prevent clubs paying players, this will become more apparent as the Clubmark Qualification roles out, interesting to see that one of the 2 clubs to already receive Bronze don't have a girls or women's team so maybe Bronze is as far as they can go with that? Good to hear Bays are in the Nike Cup and also going to Kanga but when you hear Danny Halligan has a $40k budget to attract and retain players seems kinda counter productive. The federations role in all of this should be to create the environment for growth/achievement then support it, not take ownership of it as is the case currently. They are too hands on and lack foresight.

I know it is tough for some clubs to retain junior development but it is fundamental to the future of our game. If we all ignored the juniors our senior game would also fall apart as a viable competitive sport.



I don't think every club has the desire or capability to go year-round from top to bottom across both genders; and I have no doubt we are not far from the 'hub' concept of junior programme delivery.
November 19, 2013 12:26
BenchWarmer
WeeNix
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Stretford End wrote:
Bays pretty much give it away from 13th-18th grade, though I see they have a Nike Cup entry in 2014 so that's a bit of a first for them.

Do they? They were not in the original list Mainland produced with clubs that had stated their interest
November 19, 2013 12:56
Global Game
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BenchWarmer wrote:
Stretford End wrote:
Bays pretty much give it away from 13th-18th grade, though I see they have a Nike Cup entry in 2014 so that's a bit of a first for them.


Do they? They were not in the original list Mainland produced with clubs that had stated their interest


Oh sorry Bench, i could be wrong - thought I'd read it on here! Maybe its Kanga?
November 19, 2013 13:13
BenchWarmer
WeeNix
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BenchWarmer wrote:

Latest news RE Nike Cup:

To date there are 8 teams with a 9th still to confirm who are interested in entering the Nike Cup..

Nelson Suburbs, Richmond Athletic, FC Nelson

Cashmere Technical, Coastal Spirit, FC TWENTY 11, Halswell United, Nomads United and a question mark over Waimak.



They may have added a team SE, you just never know, and the draw changed so many times last year that it could happen again this season :)

Was just trying to look at which teams we may have to face :)
November 19, 2013 13:18
Global Game
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BenchWarmer wrote:
BenchWarmer wrote:

Latest news RE Nike Cup:

To date there are 8 teams with a 9th still to confirm who are interested in entering the Nike Cup..

Nelson Suburbs, Richmond Athletic, FC Nelson

Cashmere Technical, Coastal Spirit, FC TWENTY 11, Halswell United, Nomads United and a question mark over Waimak.



They may have added a team SE, you just never know, and the draw changed so many times last year that it could happen again this season :)

Was just trying to look at which teams we may have to face :)

Good to see 3 Nelson teams but I'm really surprised no Dunedin teams ever enter. The player base is there. They are always pretty strong at rep level at this age group and with Mosgiel winning (pretty comfortably) Coastal's Lotto U19 tournament you'd think a progressive Dunedin club would think they could knock off the Chch clubs; then we'd have a real South Island U15 club tournament on our hands.
November 19, 2013 13:43
VimFuego
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Pretty sure it was Kanga that was mentioned, but it's still a surprise all things considered. 


November 19, 2013 13:54
Ronaldoknow
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VimFuego wrote:

Pretty sure it was Kanga that was mentioned, but it's still a surprise all things considered. 


Qu'est-ce que vous dites?
November 19, 2013 14:36
Smithy
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So much for playing nice in Chch: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11159543

November 19, 2013 14:54
Global Game
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Smithy wrote:

So much for playing nice in Chch: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11159543


One of many unsavoury incidents unfortunately this year. Already been/being discussed on Mainland Premier thread.
November 19, 2013 15:01
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Ronaldoknow wrote:
VimFuego wrote:

Pretty sure it was Kanga that was mentioned, but it's still a surprise all things considered. 


Qu'est-ce que vous dites?
Hey! I nearly missed this! Ronaldo do you have something you'd like to share with the class? In English as opposed to French!!?
November 19, 2013 16:46
Ronaldoknow
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Stretford End wrote:
Ronaldoknow wrote:
VimFuego wrote:

Pretty sure it was Kanga that was mentioned, but it's still a surprise all things considered. 


Qu'est-ce que vous dites?

Hey! I nearly missed this! Ronaldo do you have something you'd like to share with the class? In English as opposed to French!!?

Just asking Vim if he had any news, surely it would be announced here first for those that aren't privy to the inner sanctum at Coastal?
November 19, 2013 16:55
VimFuego
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Well official word is out, not my fault you aren't up with the play. 

C'est la vie. 

November 19, 2013 16:57
Global Game
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Official word? Mainland juniors? Coastal inner sanctum? Speak English-man!

November 19, 2013 17:07
VimFuego
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You have a wee sniff around mate, makes it all the more interesting.

November 19, 2013 17:20
Global Game
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Doh! Ok now I get it; should be in the mainland premier thread though. Good luck with it, new blood is good for the game. It also confirms that my source was correct at the nix game.
Was you playing cute just a ploy to get another hit on your clubs website? If so, you got one from me!

November 19, 2013 17:49
VimFuego
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over 17 years

I wasn't starting the rumour I was merely putting it out there that I had seen it and wondered how long it takes for the gossip hungry mongrels from YF would take to notice.   

5 hours apparently.  You've changed.

November 19, 2013 17:58
moyyim
Trialist
2
·
34
·
about 11 years
Smithy wrote:

Point of order. Kids in Wellington at academies like Kaizen and Ole also participate in FTC and NTC usually.

This may change in the coming months but so far those two Academies have not gone head to head against FTC but have worked alongside.



Yep....Kaizen train in the mornings & do say  "....does not clash with FTC & is not intended as a replacement ..."
As an aside, they had a tour to UK/Germany/Italy in October... Played against Liverpool, Crystal Palace, Borussia Dortmund, Genoa?
Pick of the results a 1 - 1 draw with Boussia Dortmund

Cheers
November 19, 2013 19:20 · Edited November 19, 2013 19:20
shushy6
·
WeeNix
68
·
520
·
over 11 years
Ronaldoknow wrote:
VimFuego wrote:

Pretty sure it was Kanga that was mentioned, but it's still a surprise all things considered. 


Qu'est-ce que vous dites?

Lol!

November 19, 2013 19:22
Ronaldoknow
Starting XI
120
·
2.7K
·
over 17 years
Stretford End wrote:

Doh! Ok now I get it; should be in the mainland premier thread though. Good luck with it, new blood is good for the game. It also confirms that my source was correct at the nix game.
Was you playing cute just a ploy to get another hit on your clubs website? If so, you got one from me!

Oh, how boring, a rumour that's true.
November 19, 2013 20:45
Prickly Thistle
Phoenix Academy
46
·
210
·
almost 11 years
Stretford End wrote:
Prickly Thistle wrote:
Ronaldoknow wrote:
Stretford End wrote:
Scottie Rd wrote:
Ronaldoknow wrote:
Stretford End wrote:

Rep player 1 speaking to rep player 2: "oi bro, you should come and play with my club, we're going to some tournament up north; it's gonna be mean as!"
Rep player 2: "yeah maybe, who's the coach?"
Player 1: that dude we had for the reps
Player 2: oh him, yeah he's the business, who else is in the team?
Player 1: heaps of the boiz you know - from school, from reps, from FTC, from when we played at that club when we was kids
Player 2: sick bro, see you at training
Player 1: churr

Nek minnit: moaning on yellow fever forums

Now that's a player development programme worth its weight in gold :) Cheap as and no having to employ staff or reinvent the wheel, cheers SE.

 Actually when you think about it Bays are spending about half what some clubs spend on development to try and win the MPL. Who's right and who's wrong?


Which club will be the first to do away with the junior side of the club? 

Easier to run only a senior section, less person power needed less equipment and pitches etc. How many junior parents get involved in the running of a club pro rata numbers?

Taking cricket in Canterbury as a case we have St Albans CC who have not had a junior boys set up and have been one of the leading clubs in that sport for years.

Take the other area and you have one if not the biggest junior section with BWUCC and they struggle at senior level to be at the top for more than a year at a time.


Not sure if junior cricket is the best analogy because the schools/establishment OWN youth cricket; but a valid question for sure.
Bays pretty much give it away from 13th-18th grade, though I see they have a Nike Cup entry in 2014 so that's a bit of a first for them.
The thing is, I reckon a national club league will eventually make its way back and there will be different criteria for that (and junior club won't necessarily be part of it at all; though there has been recent media talk of a national JUNIOR club league but that is probably dream-land stuff). Chch may get a couple of teams and all other clubs effectively become feeders to them (think Auckland Central/ACFC).
Agree SE, part of the criteria for entering the MPL should be that you have junior clubs and development focus to prevent clubs paying players, this will become more apparent as the Clubmark Qualification roles out, interesting to see that one of the 2 clubs to already receive Bronze don't have a girls or women's team so maybe Bronze is as far as they can go with that? Good to hear Bays are in the Nike Cup and also going to Kanga but when you hear Danny Halligan has a $40k budget to attract and retain players seems kinda counter productive. The federations role in all of this should be to create the environment for growth/achievement then support it, not take ownership of it as is the case currently. They are too hands on and lack foresight.

I know it is tough for some clubs to retain junior development but it is fundamental to the future of our game. If we all ignored the juniors our senior game would also fall apart as a viable competitive sport.



I don't think every club has the desire or capability to go year-round from top to bottom across both genders; and I have no doubt we are not far from the 'hub' concept of junior programme delivery.

Currently, I agree. Envisage though the opportunities if there were a couple more mergers of smaller junior based clubs and strong senior and we could have sustainable top to bottom programs across the federation. Not necessary mergers maybe junior feeders. Shared vision. Real development opportunities.

Selwyn -  Mid Canterbury - Waimak -  Fc 2011 - CTFC - (Hall / Utd / Hornby) -  (S.a.S/Nom/ West) - (C.S. / Parklands/ Bur), 

All would have a strong junior base  800 plus, all capable of running their own program with the resources (coaches and money) freed up by Mainland.

Facilities developing in Selwyn - No problem in Ashburton - No problem in Kaiapoi - New turf for Avonhead? - Tulett also - Exciting development at Cuthberts - Same at Garrick - Room at Halswell / Warren.

8 club based programs - 4 geographical zones for extended development. Competition at both levels club in winter zones through summer - leading to reps. Ours is a developing sport we need clubs to focus on development.

 

November 20, 2013 09:18
BenchWarmer
WeeNix
110
·
720
·
over 11 years

Tullet needs better drainage more than anything

November 20, 2013 11:00
TheRams
Trialist
2
·
9
·
almost 11 years

Christchurch United FC has begun a phase of rebuilding and is looking fill two development positions at the club - Head of Junior Football and Head of Youth Development. 

This exciting opportunity for the successful applicants to work together with our committee and our recently appointed Head Coach to rebuild a club with a strong history and an exciting future.

The Head of Junior football will be responsible for leading the clubs junior football programme (ages 4-10) with a focus on providing opportunities and increasing participation.

The Head of Youth Development will be responsible for leading the clubs youth football programme (ages 11+) with a focus on talent development.

The successful applicants will have access to mainland football coaching courses at the clubs expense in addition to a nominal payment (to be negotiated)

Expressions of interest are sought by 7 December 2013.

For a job description or to discuss the role in more detail please email [email protected]

November 20, 2013 13:20
Ronaldoknow
Starting XI
120
·
2.7K
·
over 17 years
Prickly Thistle wrote:
Stretford End wrote:
Prickly Thistle wrote:
Ronaldoknow wrote:
Stretford End wrote:
Scottie Rd wrote:
Ronaldoknow wrote:
Stretford End wrote:

Rep player 1 speaking to rep player 2: "oi bro, you should come and play with my club, we're going to some tournament up north; it's gonna be mean as!"
Rep player 2: "yeah maybe, who's the coach?"
Player 1: that dude we had for the reps
Player 2: oh him, yeah he's the business, who else is in the team?
Player 1: heaps of the boiz you know - from school, from reps, from FTC, from when we played at that club when we was kids
Player 2: sick bro, see you at training
Player 1: churr

Nek minnit: moaning on yellow fever forums

Now that's a player development programme worth its weight in gold :) Cheap as and no having to employ staff or reinvent the wheel, cheers SE.

 Actually when you think about it Bays are spending about half what some clubs spend on development to try and win the MPL. Who's right and who's wrong?


Which club will be the first to do away with the junior side of the club? 

Easier to run only a senior section, less person power needed less equipment and pitches etc. How many junior parents get involved in the running of a club pro rata numbers?

Taking cricket in Canterbury as a case we have St Albans CC who have not had a junior boys set up and have been one of the leading clubs in that sport for years.

Take the other area and you have one if not the biggest junior section with BWUCC and they struggle at senior level to be at the top for more than a year at a time.


Not sure if junior cricket is the best analogy because the schools/establishment OWN youth cricket; but a valid question for sure.
Bays pretty much give it away from 13th-18th grade, though I see they have a Nike Cup entry in 2014 so that's a bit of a first for them.
The thing is, I reckon a national club league will eventually make its way back and there will be different criteria for that (and junior club won't necessarily be part of it at all; though there has been recent media talk of a national JUNIOR club league but that is probably dream-land stuff). Chch may get a couple of teams and all other clubs effectively become feeders to them (think Auckland Central/ACFC).
Agree SE, part of the criteria for entering the MPL should be that you have junior clubs and development focus to prevent clubs paying players, this will become more apparent as the Clubmark Qualification roles out, interesting to see that one of the 2 clubs to already receive Bronze don't have a girls or women's team so maybe Bronze is as far as they can go with that? Good to hear Bays are in the Nike Cup and also going to Kanga but when you hear Danny Halligan has a $40k budget to attract and retain players seems kinda counter productive. The federations role in all of this should be to create the environment for growth/achievement then support it, not take ownership of it as is the case currently. They are too hands on and lack foresight.

I know it is tough for some clubs to retain junior development but it is fundamental to the future of our game. If we all ignored the juniors our senior game would also fall apart as a viable competitive sport.



I don't think every club has the desire or capability to go year-round from top to bottom across both genders; and I have no doubt we are not far from the 'hub' concept of junior programme delivery.

Currently, I agree. Envisage though the opportunities if there were a couple more mergers of smaller junior based clubs and strong senior and we could have sustainable top to bottom programs across the federation. Not necessary mergers maybe junior feeders. Shared vision. Real development opportunities.

Selwyn -  Mid Canterbury - Waimak -  Fc 2011 - CTFC - (Hall / Utd / Hornby) -  (S.a.S/Nom/ West) - (C.S. / Parklands/ Bur), 

All would have a strong junior base  800 plus, all capable of running their own program with the resources (coaches and money) freed up by Mainland.

Facilities developing in Selwyn - No problem in Ashburton - No problem in Kaiapoi - New turf for Avonhead? - Tulett also - Exciting development at Cuthberts - Same at Garrick - Room at Halswell / Warren.

8 club based programs - 4 geographical zones for extended development. Competition at both levels club in winter zones through summer - leading to reps. Ours is a developing sport we need clubs to focus on development.

 

Absadoodle, football is crying out for this, it would absolutely storm the rugby ramparts. Add in a quality first XI midweek schools competition and a revamped ASB premiership and finally you will have lift off! Support the clubs with quality programmes, administration, programme presentation, facilities ........... now I'm just drooling ..................
November 20, 2013 15:39
football137
Trialist
3
·
31
·
about 11 years

new coach for the Christchurch Boys' High School has been chosen im pretty sure.

November 21, 2013 19:51
foal30
Marquee
1.3K
·
7.4K
·
almost 16 years

SE's demo conversation of player conversation is pretty much the go. 

This  is the experience of my daughter and son at FTC. It also applies to the other Coastal players, every session their being asked why not play for FC2011, CTFC etc.... In fact my daughter used to cop it from the coach each week.... 

Some of Prickly's comments earlier caught my eye about FTC, is anyone here actually suggesting that there is a better program in Chch? 

As far as being poorly selected , and indifferent to positional / tactical concepts here is my sons FTC group;

1x GK, 6 x D, 7x M , 2x F.  

and his NTC group;

1x GK, 3x D, 6x M, 3x F

so the facts (at least for this age grade) seem to indicate a really good balance. Anyone who watches the Saturday age grade , Reps and FTC and still thinks the best players miss out is woefully out of touch. 


Yes FTC should be run at club level, and all Div1 club coaches should be rostered into FTC sessions as part of their qualification. But we are some distance from getting to this level. We can blame Mainland all we want ( and only a fool or a sycophant would be happy with their total delivery) but at least a big an obstacle to player development is Club politics, Individual Coach issues / ability/ promises, and seasonal player migration. If the Clubs can't or won't sort these things out then crying about FTC or Mainland is worse than useless. 


November 24, 2013 11:01
shushy6
·
WeeNix
68
·
520
·
over 11 years

My primary concern with the FTC after watching a good number of sessions and Inter Fed tournaments etc is that after 13th grade (possibly 13/14th actually I am not sure exactly how the divide is done) there were clearly some players who didn't give one fat rats arse for what they were doing. No interest, bimbling about on the field like it didn't matter, and causing me to question the point of them being there. Ability to dribble, turn, pass and receive are all vital, and these boys can certainly do all of that, no denial here, but these lads were performing/playing like they were owed something. I would suggest a culture of entitlement may be forming, and that can only be a disaster in the making.

November 24, 2013 19:08
Ronaldoknow
Starting XI
120
·
2.7K
·
over 17 years
shushy6 wrote:

My primary concern with the FTC after watching a good number of sessions and Inter Fed tournaments etc is that after 13th grade (possibly 13/14th actually I am not sure exactly how the divide is done) there were clearly some players who didn't give one fat rats arse for what they were doing. No interest, bimbling about on the field like it didn't matter, and causing me to question the point of them being there. Ability to dribble, turn, pass and receive are all vital, and these boys can certainly do all of that, no denial here, but these lads were performing/playing like they were owed something. I would suggest a culture of entitlement may be forming, and that can only be a disaster in the making.

Totally agree, if current players at FTC level are selected totally on ability and they are the absolute best available then we'd better hope like hell there are 5 - 6 kids from Nelson who are better otherwise flag the inter federation tournament next month. Lot of blatant baby sitting going on I'm afraid that makes me ponder the purpose - development or cash cow?
November 24, 2013 20:02
shushy6
·
WeeNix
68
·
520
·
over 11 years
Ronaldoknow wrote:
shushy6 wrote:

My primary concern with the FTC after watching a good number of sessions and Inter Fed tournaments etc is that after 13th grade (possibly 13/14th actually I am not sure exactly how the divide is done) there were clearly some players who didn't give one fat rats arse for what they were doing. No interest, bimbling about on the field like it didn't matter, and causing me to question the point of them being there. Ability to dribble, turn, pass and receive are all vital, and these boys can certainly do all of that, no denial here, but these lads were performing/playing like they were owed something. I would suggest a culture of entitlement may be forming, and that can only be a disaster in the making.

Totally agree, if current players at FTC level are selected totally on ability and they are the absolute best available then we'd better hope like hell there are 5 - 6 kids from Nelson who are better otherwise flag the inter federation tournament next month. Lot of blatant baby sitting going on I'm afraid that makes me ponder the purpose - development or cash cow?

I think the intent is/was good, but has been rather watered down by market realities, and the need for financial viability I guess. I wrote down a different option re the FTC curriculum once upon a time. Renew the program every two years, and distribute the old program to all the clubs so the base level is increased, then at FTC the new program is a step up from that one again, is charged for as now, then in two years its recycled back to the clubs, blah blah blah you get the picture. Base level is increased, Mainland still maketh the cashiness, and on we go, with everyone winning. Probably. Meh. How say the folk in YF land?
November 24, 2013 21:08
foal30
Marquee
1.3K
·
7.4K
·
almost 16 years

watered down by market realities 


#1 reality is kids sport paying adult wages. 

November 25, 2013 10:31 · Edited November 25, 2013 10:31
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