Mainland Juniors (please play nice)

moyyim

Trialist

2

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34

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about 11 years

BenchWarmer wrote:

Out of interest how much in a 15th grade game should the letter of the law be applied? I saw an incident in a game today with a player clear through on goal only to be totally wiped out in the area as he rounded the keeper. A penalty was given, but in any senior game the defender would have been sent.

I'm not sure what div it was in, but it just made me think about when does the letter of the law start applying?

I did a Level 1 basic refereeing course here & when I asked similar question about letter of the law, yellow/red cards etc I was told by the "referee trainer" there are to be no cards in any football upto/including u17s unless the referee is qualified (am unsure to what level) & has been specifically appointed (eg by Cap Football) for that game.... Reason being to stop over zealous, under qualified volunteer refs dishing out cards - leading to problems on the sidelines etc, federations having to deal with the admin etc.

But as with many things in NZ football guess some grades, some regions, some clubs, some refs will be playing under their own version of the "rules"

I think FIFA rules should be applied from U13 upwards....kids gotta learn....Although in the vast majority of junior games theres no reason for cards to be shown Ive seen some serious foul play/reckless challenges in u13 - u17 go unpunished - hows that teaching them whats acceptable?

(Q....In other sports in NZ eg rugby, from what age do juniors play under the full/adult rules & is it dependant on having official refs ?)

In the UK,, USA? I think FIFA letter of law applies from U13 ie yellow/red cards, player fines etc.....?...Unsure if this only applies to games with "qualified" refs & a difference to NZ is more junior/youth games in UK have "official" refs (paid about £20 game)

April 12, 2014 21:45 · Edited April 13, 2014 05:25

foal30

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almost 16 years

10cc wrote:

foal30 wrote:

mind you the FC2011 15's did beat CTFC today.

Thatll be because CTFC 15 A's are playing 16th grade? It's all a bit messy isn't it?

er, FC2011 15's = actual 14th Grade A side

CTFC 15's = mostly 15's with 3 or 4 14th Grade eligible players.

end result is FC2011 14th B team (in reality their C team) is playing Div 1 and is 0-33 from two matches. The side that put 15 past them in the first week conceded 7 yesterday so it's likely results are not going to get closer any time some. Nomads and M-C both been hammered in their first 2 games as well although M-C have played CTFC which should roll the grade.

so expect this Div 1 comp to restart 03 May.

April 13, 2014 12:25

foal30

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almost 16 years

moyyim wrote:

BenchWarmer wrote:

Out of interest how much in a 15th grade game should the letter of the law be applied? I saw an incident in a game today with a player clear through on goal only to be totally wiped out in the area as he rounded the keeper. A penalty was given, but in any senior game the defender would have been sent.

I'm not sure what div it was in, but it just made me think about when does the letter of the law start applying?

I did a Level 1 basic refereeing course here & when I asked similar question about letter of the law, yellow/red cards etc I was told by the "referee trainer" there are to be no cards in any football upto/including u17s unless the referee is qualified (am unsure to what level) & has been specifically appointed (eg by Cap Football) for that game.... Reason being to stop over zealous, under qualified volunteer refs dishing out cards - leading to problems on the sidelines etc, federations having to deal with the admin etc.

But as with many things in NZ football guess some grades, some regions, some clubs, some refs will be playing under their own version of the "rules"

I think FIFA rules should be applied from U13 upwards....kids gotta learn....Although in the vast majority of junior games theres no reason for cards to be shown Ive seen some serious foul play/reckless challenges in u13 - u17 go unpunished - hows that teaching them whats acceptable?

(Q....In other sports in NZ eg rugby, from what age do juniors play under the full/adult rules & is it dependant on having official refs ?)

In the UK,, USA? I think FIFA letter of law applies from U13 ie yellow/red cards, player fines etc.....?...Unsure if this only applies to games with "qualified" refs & a difference to NZ is more junior/youth games in UK have "official" refs (paid about £20 game)

ha ha

There is a particularly (in)famous Chch junior personality /coach/ref who just loves the officialdom/uniform/card waving. I reckon he'd be dishing yellows at First Kicks if he had his way.

April 13, 2014 12:30

foal30

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almost 16 years

13th Grade I agree is a good place to start Moyyim.The issue is of course volunteer refs and the problems they would face carding players in junior games.

Imagine playing Waimak.

April 13, 2014 12:32

Messy10

Trialist

3

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36

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almost 11 years

Technically Speaking wrote:

10cc wrote:

Global Game wrote:

Check out Mainland website for info on junior-aged players playing senior football.

Wow - 1 week in from season start. Note juniors enforcement 2015 by looks of things? Another shambles without consultation after the horse has bolted.

rumour has it, the new dispensation rules (publicised after team selections), will now see the u23 league lose a team and drop to 5 & a bye. Much like last years doomed u21's. Guys already pissed at the thought of a game off every few weeks. Hard to develop young fellas if the only play here and there.

I really hope they don't drop out , my guys don't want a free week every few weeks either !!

April 13, 2014 16:44

BenchWarmer

WeeNix

110

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720

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over 11 years

moyyim wrote:

BenchWarmer wrote:

Out of interest how much in a 15th grade game should the letter of the law be applied? I saw an incident in a game today with a player clear through on goal only to be totally wiped out in the area as he rounded the keeper. A penalty was given, but in any senior game the defender would have been sent.

I'm not sure what div it was in, but it just made me think about when does the letter of the law start applying?

I did a Level 1 basic refereeing course here & when I asked similar question about letter of the law, yellow/red cards etc I was told by the "referee trainer" there are to be no cards in any football upto/including u17s unless the referee is qualified (am unsure to what level) & has been specifically appointed (eg by Cap Football) for that game.... Reason being to stop over zealous, under qualified volunteer refs dishing out cards - leading to problems on the sidelines etc, federations having to deal with the admin etc.

But as with many things in NZ football guess some grades, some regions, some clubs, some refs will be playing under their own version of the "rules"

I think FIFA rules should be applied from U13 upwards....kids gotta learn....Although in the vast majority of junior games theres no reason for cards to be shown Ive seen some serious foul play/reckless challenges in u13 - u17 go unpunished - hows that teaching them whats acceptable?

(Q....In other sports in NZ eg rugby, from what age do juniors play under the full/adult rules & is it dependant on having official refs ?)

In the UK,, USA? I think FIFA letter of law applies from U13 ie yellow/red cards, player fines etc.....?...Unsure if this only applies to games with "qualified" refs & a difference to NZ is more junior/youth games in UK have "official" refs (paid about £20 game)

Back in the day I know of cards dished out in 12's and 13's in uk, but that was official refs.... May have changed now though

April 13, 2014 17:45

VimFuego

Starting XI

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over 17 years

18's are definitely getting carded and fined this year.

April 13, 2014 17:53

Messy10

Trialist

3

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36

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almost 11 years

BenchWarmer wrote:

moyyim wrote:

BenchWarmer wrote:

Out of interest how much in a 15th grade game should the letter of the law be applied? I saw an incident in a game today with a player clear through on goal only to be totally wiped out in the area as he rounded the keeper. A penalty was given, but in any senior game the defender would have been sent.

I'm not sure what div it was in, but it just made me think about when does the letter of the law start applying?

I did a Level 1 basic refereeing course here & when I asked similar question about letter of the law, yellow/red cards etc I was told by the "referee trainer" there are to be no cards in any football upto/including u17s unless the referee is qualified (am unsure to what level) & has been specifically appointed (eg by Cap Football) for that game.... Reason being to stop over zealous, under qualified volunteer refs dishing out cards - leading to problems on the sidelines etc, federations having to deal with the admin etc.

But as with many things in NZ football guess some grades, some regions, some clubs, some refs will be playing under their own version of the "rules"

I think FIFA rules should be applied from U13 upwards....kids gotta learn....Although in the vast majority of junior games theres no reason for cards to be shown Ive seen some serious foul play/reckless challenges in u13 - u17 go unpunished - hows that teaching them whats acceptable?

(Q....In other sports in NZ eg rugby, from what age do juniors play under the full/adult rules & is it dependant on having official refs ?)

In the UK,, USA? I think FIFA letter of law applies from U13 ie yellow/red cards, player fines etc.....?...Unsure if this only applies to games with "qualified" refs & a difference to NZ is more junior/youth games in UK have "official" refs (paid about £20 game)

Back in the day I know of cards dished out in 12's and 13's in uk, but that was official refs.... May have changed now though

Yeah , I remember playing in a game at under 13 or 14 where a team mate was sent off

April 13, 2014 17:55

Technically Speaking

Trialist

40

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140

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over 11 years

Messy10 wrote:

Technically Speaking wrote:

10cc wrote:

Global Game wrote:

Check out Mainland website for info on junior-aged players playing senior football.

Wow - 1 week in from season start. Note juniors enforcement 2015 by looks of things? Another shambles without consultation after the horse has bolted.

rumour has it, the new dispensation rules (publicised after team selections), will now see the u23 league lose a team and drop to 5 & a bye. Much like last years doomed u21's. Guys already pissed at the thought of a game off every few weeks. Hard to develop young fellas if the only play here and there.

I really hope they don't drop out , my guys don't want a free week every few weeks either !!

sounds like they out. Mainland let the boys turning 16 play this weekend and that's it! With two one nil losses it would seem they aren't too far out of their depth. But they don't have the numbers to keep it going without them. Hello byes each month or so. Can't see an about face from mainland, they don't care about pdl. One year it's in, the next it's out. Pity, appeared to be a tight competition unlike most other leagues this year!!!

April 13, 2014 18:49

Messy10

Trialist

3

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36

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almost 11 years

Technically Speaking wrote:

Messy10 wrote:

Technically Speaking wrote:

10cc wrote:

Global Game wrote:

Check out Mainland website for info on junior-aged players playing senior football.

Wow - 1 week in from season start. Note juniors enforcement 2015 by looks of things? Another shambles without consultation after the horse has bolted.

rumour has it, the new dispensation rules (publicised after team selections), will now see the u23 league lose a team and drop to 5 & a bye. Much like last years doomed u21's. Guys already pissed at the thought of a game off every few weeks. Hard to develop young fellas if the only play here and there.

I really hope they don't drop out , my guys don't want a free week every few weeks either !!

sounds like they out. Mainland let the boys turning 16 play this weekend and that's it! With two one nil losses it would seem they aren't too far out of their depth. But they don't have the numbers to keep it going without them. Hello byes each month or so. Can't see an about face from mainland, they don't care about pdl. One year it's in, the next it's out. Pity, appeared to be a tight competition unlike most other leagues this year!!!

That's a shame ! According to my mate , a coach at Waimak the 1st is a very young side aswell & they only had 12 players for their first game of the season . What team are you Technically Speaking ?

April 13, 2014 19:13

Technically Speaking

Trialist

40

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140

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over 11 years

Messy10 wrote:

Technically Speaking wrote:

Messy10 wrote:

Technically Speaking wrote:

10cc wrote:

Global Game wrote:

Check out Mainland website for info on junior-aged players playing senior football.

Wow - 1 week in from season start. Note juniors enforcement 2015 by looks of things? Another shambles without consultation after the horse has bolted.

rumour has it, the new dispensation rules (publicised after team selections), will now see the u23 league lose a team and drop to 5 & a bye. Much like last years doomed u21's. Guys already pissed at the thought of a game off every few weeks. Hard to develop young fellas if the only play here and there.

I really hope they don't drop out , my guys don't want a free week every few weeks either !!

sounds like they out. Mainland let the boys turning 16 play this weekend and that's it! With two one nil losses it would seem they aren't too far out of their depth. But they don't have the numbers to keep it going without them. Hello byes each month or so. Can't see an about face from mainland, they don't care about pdl. One year it's in, the next it's out. Pity, appeared to be a tight competition unlike most other leagues this year!!!

That's a shame ! According to my mate , a coach at Waimak the 1st is a very young side aswell & they only had 12 players for their first game of the season . What team are you Technically Speaking ?

don't play for waimak but that is the team being forced out according to my workmates. Apparently their 18's are full squads so nowhere for these guys to go. Seems crazy: a team with no place to play, and a team with a bye! Seems like too many guys notplaying football to me. Come on mainland! If the 16th graders are coping - let them play!

April 13, 2014 20:06

Messy10

Trialist

3

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36

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almost 11 years

Waimak have a meeting with Mainland tomorrow , will find out what's happening then

April 15, 2014 21:43

10cc

Phoenix Academy

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450

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over 11 years

Messy10 wrote:

Waimak have a meeting with Mainland tomorrow , will find out what's happening then

It's called Player Development League for a reason I'd have thought. If only allowing 5 over 23's for that reason then surely logically it would make sense to leave some discretion with clubs as to play some 15 year olds. Not all clubs have a suitable place in a competitive 16 or even 188th grade for better than average youth players. So what do you do? Send them away to another club ?

Arrogant to have MF make a call on a players ability on chronological age, and Clubs struggling to compose teams to have "the best with the best against the best".

Come on Mainland, get with it. If there is a bye created for that reason, then I'd bet the remaining clubs will decide to play them anyway. And probably demand a refund on fees for having a bye every third week!

April 16, 2014 06:04

Messy10

Trialist

3

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36

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almost 11 years

10cc wrote:

Messy10 wrote:

Waimak have a meeting with Mainland tomorrow , will find out what's happening then

It's called Player Development League for a reason I'd have thought. If only allowing 5 over 23's for that reason then surely logically it would make sense to leave some discretion with clubs as to play some 15 year olds. Not all clubs have a suitable place in a competitive 16 or even 188th grade for better than average youth players. So what do you do? Send them away to another club ?

Arrogant to have MF make a call on a players ability on chronological age, and Clubs struggling to compose teams to have "the best with the best against the best".

Come on Mainland, get with it. If there is a bye created for that reason, then I'd bet the remaining clubs will decide to play them anyway. And probably demand a refund on fees for having a bye every third week!

Exactly what I was saying last night ! It's not as if they are getting showed up every week (so far they have lost twice 1-0) . I asked the same question to members in our club regarding a refund of sorts from Mainland .

April 16, 2014 12:26

Prickly Thistle

Phoenix Academy

46

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210

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almost 11 years

The latest Mainlander No One Newsletter.

I think I am reading it correctly. Our product is right but the kids are not enjoying it (the experience). That mentality is a quick way out of business. A bit like, We make great Ice cream but the kids don't think so and now wont buy it !!

As to the GL comments on the English game. A bit outdated. We have had 5 a sides for U7's and had 8 a sides for U 11's for a dozen years now. We even had a no coaching from parents rule dating back to 2002, based on the UK Academies, which were based on the Dutch and Germans. I thought it was working who changed it?

The Pro Academies in the UK have been doing it for the last 14 years

the Mainland philosophy seems to be give us more money and we will give you more work and make it just a little bit harder every season.

Now that registrations are all in who has a club that is actually growing, and not just from an influx of new residents?

April 16, 2014 17:27

Global Game

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almost 14 years

My read of it was "mainland has got it right; it's all the clubs' fault"

April 16, 2014 18:18

Prickly Thistle

Phoenix Academy

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210

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almost 11 years

Global Game wrote:

My read of it was "mainland has got it right; it's all the clubs' fault"

Yeh ! That is about it

April 16, 2014 19:51

VimFuego

Starting XI

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over 17 years

I like the phrase about burning platforms and how he says people say that the WOF is destroying football. I've never said that, and all the feedback from the FK and FF we run is positive. It's not these products that are destroying football and effecting retention, I believe it's the schools influence and Mainland's inability to do anything about it that's the problem.

April 16, 2014 21:52

10cc

Phoenix Academy

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450

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over 11 years

VimFuego wrote:

I like the phrase about burning platforms and how he says people say that the WOF is destroying football. I've never said that, and all the feedback from the FK and FF we run is positive. It's not these products that are destroying football and effecting retention, I believe it's the schools influence and Mainland's inability to do anything about it that's the problem.

Agree but rather unwillingness than inability to do anything about schools. Mess around with trivia and semantics and avoid dealing with real underlying problems such as schools. Years of board members supporting schools because of the old boys clubs instead of facing how it is affecting players and clubs alike.

April 16, 2014 22:01

shushy6

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WeeNix

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520

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over 11 years

Where can I read this article?

April 16, 2014 22:06

VimFuego

Starting XI

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over 17 years

Yer I couldn't find it on their website either. Does this link work?

http://us2.campaign-archive2.com/?u=cfdefcb6b3e87ab6e69cc8325&id=1e26bae35d&e=f9a117bb94

April 16, 2014 22:26

VimFuego

Starting XI

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over 17 years

^^^^^ World's worst forum post.

April 16, 2014 23:35

Smithy

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Stage Punch

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11K

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about 17 years

VimFuego wrote:

^^^^^ World's worst forum post.

Agree. Binned it.

Pretty poorly written piece by Coggan. He should have someone proof read it for him for a start.

April 17, 2014 07:46 · Edited April 17, 2014 07:48

shushy6

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WeeNix

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over 11 years

Apologies. Not sure how I managed to screw that up so fantastically. Still, I thought there were certainly some points worthy of addressing, if only in a better late than never capacity.

P.S. Smithy, I will never cut and paste using a phone again.

April 17, 2014 08:19

shushy6

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WeeNix

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over 11 years

VimFuego wrote:

^^^^^ World's worst forum post.

LOL @ gings endorsement. Cheap karma is not always good!

April 17, 2014 08:19

Smithy

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Stage Punch

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11K

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about 17 years

shushy6 wrote:

Apologies. Not sure how I managed to screw that up so fantastically. Still, I thought there were certainly some points worthy of addressing, if only in a better late than never capacity.

P.S. Smithy, I will never cut and paste using a phone again.

Forgiven :)

April 17, 2014 08:25

Baba O'Riley

Phoenix Academy

40

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250

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over 10 years

Amberley AFC hosted Waimak today in the very first (annual) Anzac shield challenge. Games played from 7th Grade thru to Masters.

Was a great day all round. Unfortunately for Amberley, Waimak Utd Won every game. 14th grade won 15 - 0.

April 25, 2014 18:15 · Edited April 25, 2014 18:15

shushy6

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WeeNix

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over 11 years

Thats a cool idea!

April 25, 2014 21:32

Global Game

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So the clubs supporting the new Chch Football Academy. by sending junior teams to their holiday tournament -they're not the ones up in arms over it, are they?

April 27, 2014 17:25

foal30

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almost 16 years

don't know

did not recieve any corrospondence around this tournament

link?

April 27, 2014 17:43

Global Game

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almost 14 years

foal30 wrote:

don't know

did not recieve any corrospondence around this tournament

link?

April 27, 2014 18:06

gings

First Team Squad

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1.7K

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over 17 years

Global Game wrote:

foal30 wrote:

don't know

did not recieve any corrospondence around this tournament

link?

a 2 team tournament?!?!

April 27, 2014 21:27

Global Game

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Read it properly gings. One club entered 2 teams (Blue & Gold); they played home teams. No idea how many entries.

April 27, 2014 21:56

gings

First Team Squad

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1.7K

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over 17 years

ooooh gotcha - been a looooong day

April 27, 2014 22:55

foal30

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What club?

April 28, 2014 10:01

shushy6

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WeeNix

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over 11 years

I call Parklands!

April 28, 2014 10:56

VimFuego

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It was Tech. Personally I don't think it's that big a deal.

April 28, 2014 13:00

2 Onion Bags

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Trialist

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over 10 years

I am looking from an outside club that was there as well that many of the detractors have forgotten that the kids had a great time. And thats what is important not the bloody politics. many people comment on these forums are only looking after there own and a lot are lacking the truth to match

April 28, 2014 13:21

Global Game

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Of course the kids had a great time; all kids love tournaments and good on CFA for putting it on.

However there are plenty of clubs scathing of the way CFA was established and the governing body's role in that, with little if any communication with its stakeholders - the clubs and their members - being at the heart of it. The fact a key player in CFA is an ex employee of neighbouring club fc20 and fc20's membership has dropped quite severely is just one cause for concern. Another is that Mainland have allowed a new junior club to form - in contravention of their own guidelines for new clubs. The tie-in with University is nothing but convenient smoke and mirrors.

The only reason I flagged this was to highlight the possible double standards of a club being against CFA formation yet supporting it by sending teams to their tournament. I bet fc20 sent ZERO teams.

April 28, 2014 13:59

2 Onion Bags

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Trialist

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84

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over 10 years

Oh and I have plenty of reason to be dissatisfied with the direction and governance from this lot after witnessing there lies against our club in person last year

April 28, 2014 14:19