Marquee
1.9K
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7.6K
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almost 6 years

With McCowatt's recent move to Denmark, is good to review where that ES winning side from season 2018/2019 are now at. Don't think any other Handy Prem side has come close to afterward, having this many guys signed overseas. And yes acknowledge was basically Western Suburbs in disguise.

Withers - Western Suburbs? Is he a coach at Ole?

Harry Edge - Torslanda, Sweden (5th tier)

Kalua - Eastern Suburbs

Pjinaker - Rio Ave, Portugal (top tier)

Wilkins - Helsingor, Denmark (2nd tier)

Payne - Nix

De Jong - Maritzburg, South Africa (top tier)

Parker-Price - Torslanda, Sweden (I note Andrew Voerman has said he is a possibility for AWs callup next month)

Wooldridge - Torslanda, Sweden

Just - Helsingor, Denmark

McCowatt - Helsingor, Denmark

https://us.soccerway.com/matches/2019/03/31/new-ze...

Throw in some younger Ole grads like Stamenic (Denmark - top tier/U19s) and Garbett (Sweden - top tier), and it's an impressive list up in Europe now. Few more like Adams, Collier and Billingsley in the US.

Ole/Western Suburbs have been pushing NZF for a few years now to have a Handy Prem side. If motto of the league is 'where AWs are made' then ES team stands as best example of that. If either Southern or Nelson can't be resurrected for season 2021/2022 I'd give their spot to Ole/Western Suburbs.

Know that Ole have had affiliations with (basically let their players go to over the summer) ACFC, ES and now Tee Dubs. But maybe it's time they had their own side in the Handy Prem. Took a few years for WeeNix to get a side accepted.

This has been posted above before but is Declan Edge on a between Two beers podcast. Highly recommend.

Dude is a polarising figure, but is a bit of fascinating character, and will be a huge influence on the NZ game for a long time ahead. At about 24 mins he talks about ES and Danny Hay, prior to that his views on Hudson and Fritz Schmid. Not a fan of either! 

Would be a good guest to have on Phoenix City when he returns from Sweden, if he's willing. Maybe he's not. He talks about once having a Yellow Fever account, and stirring things up!!

Edit - at 58 mins he's asked to compare Weenix Academy verus Ole.

Marquee
2.3K
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5.3K
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about 14 years

Dont really no that much about him but for those that do if he is so good and his methods are the best why hasnt he or his methods been picked up by some of the biggest clubs. If they have who, pretty sure if he has a way that players dont pick up muscle injuries more than just football clubs would be chasing him.

Starting XI
1.6K
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4.2K
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almost 9 years

Declan is not someone to be told what to do... simple as that.

Trialist
46
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94
·
over 1 year

It isnt that his methods produce more results per say but it puts the players in uncomfertable positions where they are forced to improve.

First Team Squad
150
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1.4K
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almost 14 years

It’s the cult of Declan at Ole. And it works. 

Other clubs haven’t picked up his methods because that would be admitting he’s been right about a bunch of stuff that a lot of people have traditionally said that he’s wrong about. 

Marquee
1.9K
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7.6K
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almost 6 years

From what I can tell alot of his philosophy seems to be built around Malcolm Gladwell's book Outliers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliers_(book). Namely "10,000-Hour Rule", claiming that the key to achieving world-class expertise in any skill, is, to a large extent, a matter of practicing the correct way, for a total of around 10,000 hours. This book was all the rage about 10 years ago, especially in the US. Most of the subjects/examples highlighted in the book are Americans. Some of the content has been seriously debunked since, but I'm guessing alot of the ideas still underpin what Ole do. Seems a fair number of the Ole staff after all, are well educated Americans.

I'm sure others on this thread or elsewhere, have debated Declan and Ole in great depth. Some on here are no doubt involved with Western Suburbs, or have even sent their kids to Ole. My take from listening to that 1.30 hour interview -

He is passionate about NZ football. Firmly believes there is no reason why young NZ players can't compete with world's best, whilst playing an attractive style. Thinks this can all be achieved in a NZ context, without much foreign help. So think even before Schmid or Heraf uttered a single word, he would have disliked them.

Likes an agrument. But you better come prepared. He's an avid reader, pretty articulate, and if you say even the slightest silly comment, he will jump all over you and tear that comment to pieces. Nil tact, and you better have a thick skin to last around him. Obviously has zero time for playing the political football game, and I imagine many administrators, and other coaches he despises.

Doubt he would succeed or last, coaching a senior side, where it is all about the results here and now. He likes being given a long term project. Also adults are more likely to question his methods, and that would just lead super quick to an almighty dustup. He probably knows that. He's better off coaching young kids, who won't question his methods, know that his track record now shows their highest chance of being a pro footballer from NZ (if that is what they really want to be) is going to Ole. He could end up at a big club (whatever that means) one day as an Academy coach, but again it's his way or the highway, so it's just as likely to end in tears if it happened.

His best route is likely when a small club like Torslanda, that have understanding patient ownership/board with a long term vision, not fixated on short term results, and basically give him total power to do whatever he wants. I imagine to a point Western Suburbs was a bit like that.

I think he's genuine when he says he gets a huge amount of satisfaction from seeing young kids grow over many years. Growing not only as footballers, but into other spheres like education, onto to uni etc. Not every kid going to Ole is going to become a pro. Of course at the end of the day he is running a business. Without kids (and their parents) signing up to Ole there is no business. So he needs to sell the idea that Ole produces better people, not just better footballers. But he started this whole thing with little money, and just a hard core of 10-15 kids in Tauranga/Hamilton who wanted to be better footballers. He just seems to have started out believing there was a another way of coaching, and the traditional NZ football system was failing these kids - nothing more than that.

Not one for sitting still, and always looking for continuous improvement. Open to new ideas/methods. Some make sense like breathing techniques, stressing the importance of a good sleep (esp as we now live in an age of taking digital devices to bed etc - which is shark for sleeping) - and others like hands off physiotherapy seem wacky.

Overall Edge is great for the growth of NZ Football, and player development. However it's likely just be a disaster to have him in any serious role with the AWs. Maybe U17s or U20s as an assistant, but his bias/affection for any Ole contingent would just as likely cause dramas. Ditto any involvement with Weenix Academy, and likely clashes with other coaches, and senior players. Get the feeling the lack of Ole grads looking at the Nix as a career option, is an insight into Declan's views on the A League as a whole, rather than just what the Nix provide. It's all about Europe, or a college path in the US.

He's probably best suited to doing what he currently does. Running a quality private academy in NZ, always questioning the status quo, challenging the hierarchy, making other people think. Also see the value of what he is doing in Sweden, providing a support base and network for young NZ footballers as they try to 'crack it' in Europe.

and 1 other
Marquee
1.2K
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5.9K
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almost 14 years

I have to say, I don't know much about the various academies in NZ but with two growing sons I'll be keeping my eyes open. Based on reputation alone, right now I'd say I'd be happy to send them to Ole if that's what they wanted to do of course.

Will keep my eyes open of course and there's still plenty of time.

First Team Squad
330
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1.9K
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over 11 years

coochiee wrote:

 Of course at the end of the day he is running a business. Without kids (and their parents) signing up to Ole there is no business.


Ole is a charitable trust.

Marquee
1.9K
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7.6K
·
almost 6 years

zonknz wrote:

coochiee wrote:

 Of course at the end of the day he is running a business. Without kids (and their parents) signing up to Ole there is no business.


Ole is a charitable trust.

Excuse my ignorance but what does that mean?

I assume Declan and the other staff are still paid. But there would just be no performance bonuses paid for example?

Works differently to a company structure, where directors are paid director's fees and/or receive share of the profits? 

Employees like Declan are just paid a flat wage, regardless of how many students enrol at Ole?

And the students (or their parents) have to pay to enter Ole? It's not free?

Does the trust receive, any transfer fee I wonder by way of Western Suburbs, when an Ole grad signs for an overseas club?

Woof Woof
2.7K
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19K
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almost 14 years

coochiee wrote:

zonknz wrote:

coochiee wrote:

 Of course at the end of the day he is running a business. Without kids (and their parents) signing up to Ole there is no business.


Ole is a charitable trust.

Excuse my ignorance but what does that mean?

I assume Declan and the other staff are still paid. But there would just be no performance bonuses paid for example?

Works differently to a company structure, where directors are paid director's fees and/or receive share of the profits? 

Employees like Declan are just paid a flat wage, regardless of how many students enrol at Ole?

And the students (or their parents) have to pay to enter Ole? It's not free?

Does the trust receive, any transfer fee I wonder by way of Western Suburbs, when a Ole grad sign for an overseas club?

It means it's not for profit. And comes with tax exemptions.

First Team Squad
330
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1.9K
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over 11 years
Marquee
2.3K
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5.3K
·
about 14 years

That just dosnt seem right somehow a charitable trust for something that does a lot of its stuff  overseas. Seems like someone has been able to work some  off the field magic. Staggers me at times how some of these things can be classed as a Charitable Trusts.

First Team Squad
330
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1.9K
·
over 11 years

I am not sure that the 'overseas stuff' is part of Ole Academy Inc in the sense of the charitable organisation?

WeeNix
570
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650
·
over 6 years

coochiee wrote:

I'm sure others on this thread or elsewhere, have debated Declan and Ole in great depth. Some on here are no doubt involved with Western Suburbs, or have even sent their kids to Ole. My take from listening to that 1.30 hour interview -

Really helpful thoughts on Declan. Has made me adjust my thinking

Marquee
1.9K
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7.6K
·
almost 6 years

ballane wrote:

That just dosnt seem right somehow a charitable trust for something that does a lot of its stuff  overseas. Seems like someone has been able to work some  off the field magic. Staggers me at times how some of these things can be classed as a Charitable Trusts.

The overseas stuff by which I presume you mean Torslanda in Sweden, is most likely a complete different structure to be fair. Could be anything over there, from Edge and any other Ole staff being just employees, to a proper Joint Venture with Edge and/or other Kiwis having a financial stake in the club. But Sweden ain't Panama I doubt you could pull off much dodgy stuff over there.

Marquee
1.9K
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7.6K
·
almost 6 years

AlfStamp wrote:

coochiee wrote:

I'm sure others on this thread or elsewhere, have debated Declan and Ole in great depth. Some on here are no doubt involved with Western Suburbs, or have even sent their kids to Ole. My take from listening to that 1.30 hour interview -

Really helpful thoughts on Declan. Has made me adjust my thinking

Actually with your views on Hudson and the like AS, plus hatred of 'direct football' - I imagine in many ways you are peas in a pod!

WeeNix
570
·
650
·
over 6 years

coochiee wrote:

AlfStamp wrote:

coochiee wrote:

I'm sure others on this thread or elsewhere, have debated Declan and Ole in great depth. Some on here are no doubt involved with Western Suburbs, or have even sent their kids to Ole. My take from listening to that 1.30 hour interview -

Really helpful thoughts on Declan. Has made me adjust my thinking

Actually with your views on Hudson and the like AS, plus hatred of 'direct football' - I imagine in many ways you are peas in a pod!

The hatred of direct football is an interesting one. If I see a team thats really successful with it then I am cool with it, but I dont see it that often. The battle I have is how often the ball is lost when teams go direct. At the next local game you watch keep a running tally on how often a ball is played direct or long and then keep a tally of how often thats a success. A success for me is if the receiver is able to control the ball and retain possession and/or do something positive with the ball.  Its a real eye opener when you see just how often its a failure.  I made mention of watching it at a local game just because errors are magnified at that level but you will get the picture. 

Marquee
1.9K
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7.6K
·
almost 6 years

Sadly in Peru at the moment where I am, local football is banned due to Covid. Actually in Lima 11 aside football on grass is pretty rare (city of 10M people is basically a desert with annual rainfall less than 20mm!). It's really only reserved for the professional leagues, and top quality amateur/kids stuff. 5 aside futsal on concrete in your local barrio is far more common, so yeah taking the direct route is probably not so natural for them growing up.

Found Declan's comment that heading of the ball at Ole training or in games, is more or less banned. I'd never heard that before.

WeeNix
570
·
650
·
over 6 years

coochiee wrote:

Sadly in Peru at the moment where I am, local football is banned due to Covid. Actually in Lima 11 aside football on grass is pretty rare (city of 10M people is basically a desert with annual rainfall less than 20mm!). It's really only reserved for the professional leagues, and top quality amateur/kids stuff. 5 aside futsal on concrete in your local barrio is far more common, so yeah taking the direct route is probably not so natural for them growing up.

Found Declan's comment that heading of ball at Ole training or in games, is more or less banned. I'd never heard that before.

I do remember when I was in my teens at training in the 1970s heading was limited then. The coach at the time was aware of the effects of delayed concussion. It was understood back then but not really something people were as worried about.

Trialist
19
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53
·
5 months

New Plymouth Rangers go the Olé way.

Good news for the region. Looks like the partnership is to help develop a new youth training academy programme, and then I guess we'll see where that takes us down the line.

Pleasing to see a development like this, considering that from Taranaki through the Manawatu/Wanganui regions there is a dearth of programmes of notable quality. Plenty of untapped talent for sure down these way's as well.

Good work Monty ?

Legend
1.7K
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16K
·
about 14 years
What’s Declan doing these days?
Starting XI
1.3K
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2.2K
·
almost 4 years
Feverish
What’s Declan doing these days?

believe still at Torslanda, Feutz and Rogerson have headed over
Legend
1.7K
·
16K
·
about 14 years
mrsmiis
Feverish
What’s Declan doing these days?

believe still at Torslanda, Feutz and Rogerson have headed over

Don’t think he is?
Starting XI
1.1K
·
2.5K
·
almost 6 years
Feverish
mrsmiis
Feverish
What’s Declan doing these days?

believe still at Torslanda, Feutz and Rogerson have headed over

Don’t think he is?

Heard he and Ole had parted company, think he was helping out at Eastern Suburbs but not sure on that (the Eastern Suburbs part)
Legend
1.7K
·
16K
·
about 14 years
The JourneyFan
Feverish
mrsmiis
Feverish
What’s Declan doing these days?

believe still at Torslanda, Feutz and Rogerson have headed over

Don’t think he is?

Heard he and Ole had parted company, think he was helping out at Eastern Suburbs but not sure on that (the Eastern Suburbs part)

How come his departure wasn’t announced?
Starting XI
940
·
2.4K
·
over 8 years
New brand. They removed the animal cruelty from their logo, good.
WeeNix
310
·
650
·
about 7 years
zonknz
coochiee wrote:

 Of course at the end of the day he is running a business. Without kids (and their parents) signing up to Ole there is no business.


Ole is a charitable trust.

WeeNix
310
·
650
·
about 7 years
Ole appears to have gained their Charitable Trust status  by granting the odd kid who cannot afford to pay their fees, free entry. 
Of course The Ole Puppet has been banging on about their charitable trust status as if the whole thing is run by donations


First Team Squad
330
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1.9K
·
over 11 years
we could i dunno, keep it factual, rather than resorting to insults?

In NZ, A charitable trust is a way to hold and protect assets (money, property, etc) for charitable purposes. The trust’s assets are managed according to the purpose set out in a trust deed, or an agreed set of rules.
A charitable trust, or an existing society (with a charitable purpose), can apply to us to be incorporated as a board under the Charitable Trusts Act 1957.
To do this, a charitable trust or society must exist principally or exclusively for the following reasons:
  • the promotion of education
  • the promotion of religion
  • the relief of poverty
  • other purposes of benefit to the community.
What it is not is a vehicle for profit, for the asset owners.
Listen here Fudgeface
3.5K
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15K
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about 11 years
The promotion of football as a religion does indeed qualify Olé for charitable trust status.
Legend
1.7K
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16K
·
about 14 years
Gets the their 500k trust $

Anyway, what is Declan up to apart from firing up at Ole for claiming Boyd (in their ridiculous he came to Ole once promos)?
Trialist
0
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1
·
8 days
edge without swedish visa. trying for an eu passport. still living in nz. 

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