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91 replies · 8,841 views
about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
bobdylan wrote:

my understanding is viard team not just viard have 3 or 4 players from mana. and wgtn high is just another team cause they have 3 or 4 in the college grade but the wanted to play a younger team here so they could play 9am instead of 2pm for sh*t college grade start time.

i agree with your feelings EXCEPT. if clubs r gonna have teams in the combined league they shouldn't be able to have a west regime where they go pick the best players from each school from all over the region just to win the competition. so if your at a decent footballing school and the resources are there play for them. if not bring in the clubs.
 
Which wests junior grade team is currently do this? None.
 Seems like you have a big chip on your shoulders about certain clubs.

A dog with a bone :)

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
He's not the only one that has trouble following the thread.
 
The availability of paid full time coaching staff is irrelevant to bobdylan's point, which I agree with, that if clubs would stop fretting over "losing" "their" players and link up with schools (a la Wests and HIBS) then the world would be a much happier place.
 
This whole debate really boils down to clubs being afraid of change.
 
Now before you go off at me I don't really agree with the system but surely there's a case for making it work, at least in the medium term, rather than thrasing about getting upset about something that isn't likely to change in the near future?
 
 
nightz wrote:
smithy246 wrote:
He makes a reasonable point.
 
 
Unreasonable.
 
Stokes Valley, Naenae, Wainui, Petone for example dont have full time paid coaches on staff like some other clubs do. Some schools ie: St Pats, St Bernards, Chilton, Scared Heart, St Orans draw kids from a large area and dont as such have a local club. There are schools that some clubs would like to associate with more than others, like Lower Hutt help out St Pats (even though its in U/hutt). Who supplies coaches to Taita, Naenae, St Bernards. On the other other hand I'm sure Stop Out/Lower Hutt/ Petone would all like to get exclusive rights to Hutt Valley High.
 
 

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
nightz wrote:
bobdylan wrote:

I agree with your feelings EXCEPT. if clubs r gonna have teams in the combined league they shouldn't be able to have a west regime where they go pick the best players from each school from all over the region just to win the competition. so if your at a decent footballing school and the resources are there play for them. if not bring in the clubs.

 
Which wests junior grade team is currently do this? None.
 Seems like you have a big chip on your shoulders about certain clubs.
 
Or A certain club in fact.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
nightz wrote:
bobdylan wrote:

my understanding is viard team not just viard have 3 or 4 players from mana. and wgtn high is just another team cause they have 3 or 4 in the college grade but the wanted to play a younger team here so they could play 9am instead of 2pm for sh*t college grade start time.

i agree with your feelings EXCEPT. if clubs r gonna have teams in the combined league they shouldn't be able to have a west regime where they go pick the best players from each school from all over the region just to win the competition. so if your at a decent footballing school and the resources are there play for them. if not bring in the clubs.
 
Which wests junior grade team is currently do this? None.
 Seems like you have a big chip on your shoulders about certain clubs.
 
youve missed the point with this combined league there will be no junior senior club because their will be no gap. club teams will be combining with college grades. so hence if wests wanna get their players for senior they will pick them up thru the colleges like they do now ie. zaan janse, rudiger cotzer, tim mather, bryce howard, hayden fleet. these players played for both school and college with the propsed league they would only be able to play for one. players like these who are from strong schools would get taking out from the likes of west and the college teams would turn weak.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ps. i have nothing against wests or matt carny just using them as an example of what could happen if leagues combine.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Are there even Capital Football leagues for between the ages of 14th-17th grade? I enjoyed playing for my school too but would definitely have played for a club had such age group leagues been in place.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
why dosnt wellington set up what auckland has... where you play for your school on a saturday and you play for under19 team on a sunday. seems logical. then we might actually b able to build sum strong under19 teams to compete over labour weekend at nationals. i have no time for people who play for club over school unless there starting in a central league team. i think a under19 club sunday competition throughout the winter season building up to upper hutt and napier tournaments with maybe just one training a week so kids arn't over training is a good solution to not losing players in the 15-19 bracket.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Good point. Although you are going to have school coaches (Jacques) using the old "You are just saving yourself for your club game" line.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
That's similar to the "why don't schools play on a Wednesday afternoon" question.  It makes great sense but the fact is that the clubs are against it just like the schools are against Wednesdays: for no really good reason at all!

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'm not sure they are good reasons, but I guess the schools would be giving reasons such as that students may have other commitments on Wednesdays (or any other day) - other sports if they are playing more than 1, things like band or some committees, and i guess that they believe students should be studying and doing homework on weekdays (there being more time to fit in at the weekends).

I also guess the club may argue that to run it on sundays mean the people involved have to spend 2 days (possibly ditching partners/kids for both days of the weekend) if they want to help out the school students on Sunday, and also the need for refs (if they are used for the school games) to come out on a second day (though i do understand some must already do that for the women's games).

It does partly come down to people in power not really wanting to change the status quo
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
haha "its a pikideli circus out there" rumor has it hes given up 1st xl coaching a. after their performance at nationals last year. nah it would be good to see if the under 19 system could expand a although sometimes this dosn't cater for your fringe or weaker players in colleges or clubs.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I wonder if there is scope for a body to run a REBEL league on Sundays?

Yellow Fever Under 19 league anyone :-)

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
my team will be called. wife beaters.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
there is a school grade on tuesdays i think which HVHS won with the likes of pickering and steel i think? school can run there little tuesday grade thing after school but the better player in college grade should realy be at clubs learning there trade at college were only holding them back if they dont go to clubs which they do after college anyway, i dont know why they would want to hold back there progress there just learning later on after college they may aswell learn everything while there young and make better players in the future
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
bobdylan wrote:
haha "its a pikideli circus out there" rumor has it hes given up 1st xl coaching a. after their performance at nationals last year. nah it would be good to see if the under 19 system could expand a although sometimes this dosn't cater for your fringe or weaker players in colleges or clubs.


"It's not good enough! You're a bunch of tourists! Seagulls! Ergh!"

Is Rossco gonna take it now?
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Charlie Howe.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
yea i don't think rossco can be f**ked with that bunch of youngins coming thru. not like gud old guy smith 14a 7am trainings made us formedable 1st x1 few years later bobdylan2008-01-24 13:45:01
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
bobdylan you're lucky having JV as a coach. Many years ago, I was lucky enough to be in his 1st X1 at Southland Boys High. He knew what he was doing even in those early days.
Up here in the Bay of Plenty some schools have teams in senior comps and some don't play on Saturdays at all. our club has a young player who has five trainings with his school team, and two with us. Sometimes he's really tired at our traingings, cos the school have hammered it out of him, but then they don't field a team on a Saturday, and they expect him to play seniors if he wants to be in the 1st X1, who are ambitious and usualy get into the national SS premiere tourney. A strange philosophy!!! It doesn't give him a fair chance to do well at club trainings.

Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
smithy246 wrote:
Charlie Howe.
 
I heard JVs kicking up a fuss and will most likely be coaching again next yr. I have respect for him but he has some very strange ideas and alot of the players arent happy with him. Expect a number of WC players playing club this yr.
 
Also i know many schools have found CF difficult to deal with re: leagues which prompted Wgtn Coll to pull teams from 16/17 JPL which combined with 15As taking the 3rd XI spot resulted in alot of good young players in social teams and not being developed.
 
The club/school thing is not working.
 
Premier Youth is much weaker than it should be because good players from schools like tawa and paraparaumu College are ditching school for club and a very good Hutt Valley high team not even playing premier youth because of most of their players have club cmomitments ect ect ect..
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Dave57 wrote:
smithy246 wrote:
Charlie Howe.
 
I heard JVs kicking up a fuss and will most likely be coaching again next yr. I have respect for him but he has some very strange ideas and alot of the players arent happy with him. Expect a number of WC players playing club this yr.
 
Also i know many schools have found CF difficult to deal with re: leagues which prompted Wgtn Coll to pull teams from 16/17 JPL which combined with 15As taking the 3rd XI spot resulted in alot of good young players in social teams and not being developed.
 
The club/school thing is not working.
 
Premier Youth is much weaker than it should be because good players from schools like tawa and paraparaumu College are ditching school for club and a very good Hutt Valley high team not even playing premier youth because of most of their players have club cmomitments ect ect ect..
 
jv probably has the right to kick up a fuss.. wellington college has been back in premier youth for the past 4 years. JV has a record of 4 from 4. sure the team under performs at national level but in my 2 years under him hes was the best man for the job. his ideas are only strong when you have players who want to play for club and school and train 4 times a week thats what he dosn't like. hes personal skills somewhat lack compared to the likes of rossco but hes coaching knowledge is far superior.
 
that i know of none of tawa colleges 1st x1 play for club apart from mosses who now lives in aussie same is said for paraparaumu = zit.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Technically, Jacques is one of the top coaches in New Zealand and I learnt so much from him. His man management skills are his main weakness. Can understand his frustrations, with players ditching the school for bit-part roles at clubs ( I agreed with his philosophy that you should be starting for the club's 1st team if you don't play for school) and the talent pool at Wellington College seeming to be drying up more each year. From coming 3rd in 2005 at Nationals to 2nd to last (correct me if I'm wrong) last year.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Talent pool drying up?  Are you kidding me?  The last few years have been the best for talent at Wellington College since Simon Elliot and Mark Burton.  The school's had a sh*tload of capable players. 

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

After watching the 1st XI last year, I didn't think that was the case. By the way, what has happened to Mark Burton?

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
smithy246 wrote:

Talent pool drying up?  Are you kidding me?  The last few years have been the best for talent at Wellington College since Simon Elliot and Mark Burton.  The school's had a sh*tload of capable players. 

 
the best talent from the last couple of years were coached by you in 14th grade eh.
that talents gone when we finshed 3rd and 6th losing to palmerston nrth and grammer respectivly. now the college team is sh*te.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

That's what you do if you don't know what you're doing - get to coach the best players in town so you can't lose.  Makes you look like you're a pro!

Seriously though that 14th grade year you were in - Mather, Janse, Peters, Nguyen, Tarrant etc etc was superb.  JV can't blame a lack of quality players for a lack of results can he?
smithy2462008-01-25 14:11:33

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
i think well coll 1st 11 lost to onslow 1sts last year in the comp dident they, with the talent coll has thats pritty bad knowing how good onslow are going there myself
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
smithy246 wrote:

That's what you do if you don't know what you're doing - get to coach the best players in town so you can't lose.  Makes you look like you're a pro!

Seriously though that 14th grade year you were in - Mather, Janse, Peters, Nguyen, Tarrant etc etc was superb.  JV can't blame a lack of quality players for a lack of results can he?
 
But  Peters and Tarrant f**ked off to Wests whilst still at school didn't they?
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
smithy246 wrote:

That's what you do if you don't know what you're doing - get to coach the best players in town so you can't lose.  Makes you look like you're a pro!

Seriously though that 14th grade year you were in - Mather, Janse, Peters, Nguyen, Tarrant etc etc was superb.  JV can't blame a lack of quality players for a lack of results can he?
 
i would hope not we were meant to do better than the year we came 7th than the year we lost 2 almy in the semis.. reason being players and coach didnt learn from the mistakes of year before ( that was changing a winning formation as soon as we got to tournament leaving ie. moving peters to midfield and nguyen upfront (have you lost your mind)).
 
riise/critics - reason wellington college is sh*t last year and this year = put so much time and effort in building a team for 2 years ago (2006) that now you r left with in-experienced crap senior players in the team and one of the reasons jv dosn't have any players. or we could just say wellington college can't buy players anymore because of zoneing (dosn't stop rugby) 
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
the coll 1st team are sh*t are they? i thought they still do pritty good im just saying they got beat by a few weaker teams, last year a coll 1st 11 player played for my team afterwards and i though he was a very good player so im sure the players arent sh*t
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
riise wrote:
the coll 1st team arent sh*t are they? i thought they still do pritty good im just saying they got beat by a few weaker teams, last year a coll 1st 11 player played for my team afterwards and i though he was a very good player so im sure the players arent sh*t
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Does Wellington College still snub football when it comes to money and facilities even though it's the most participated sport at the school?

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
riise wrote:
riise wrote:
the coll 1st team arent sh*t are they? i thought they still do pritty good im just saying they got beat by a few weaker teams, last year a coll 1st 11 player played for my team afterwards and i though he was a very good player so im sure the players arent sh*t
 
in 2005 and 2006 combined coll 1st x1 lost 3 games in 2 years.
in 2007 coll lost something like 6 and drew 3 that shows how weak the teams got. they really shouldn't have qualified for top nationals but did.
 
plowright football will forever be snubbed in new zealand.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I have no idea but my guess would be yes.  Football was the most popular sport when I was there in the mid 90s so it's been the same way for a long time.
 
Ah Alexandra Park - what a ground.
smithy2462008-01-25 14:46:24

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Does Roger still spout out the same bollocks speech at the football awards dinner about how he was a devout Brighton & Hove Albion fan?
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
yes he probably does. i eventually got expelled from wellington coll for playing football and only turning up to school for training and friday lunch time meetings hahaha i hate roger. sorry hates a strong word.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Roger is just...misinformed. Haha ah the half  hour whiteboard sessions in his room with German food posters all over the walls. Good times. By the way Karl, congratulatuions on your Team Wellington Youth Team call-up.
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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Good point DKP.  I didn't realise Karl went to Coll either!
 
BD I moderated that last post.  Behave.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Christ, I wish...
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