The demise of Youth football as we know it
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The demise of Youth football as we know it
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Well, despite the experiences of Cricket and other sports, Mr Palmer has got his Master Solution to the problems in youth football - Hand
everything passed 14th grade to the colleges, to play around with for 4 years. We have enough trouble retaining kids now - Wait till the kids want to play but the College has no team available.
And if you think this is an unlikely scenario, I have just heard that with a roll of over 700, Taita College couldn't organise one cricket team, so Hutt Districts Club players from last year, are unable to play cricket this year.
1 December 2008
To all Clubs and Colleges in the Capital Football Federation and College
Sport Region
Capital Football and College Sport Football Competitions 2009
College Sport Wellington and Capital Football have, for over a year, been consulting and discussing with clubs & schools in Wellington, Western Bays/Western Zone & Hutt Valley how we better deliver football for our young players.
As part of a wider approach to improving the football environment both organisations believe we now have a mandate to merge some of our competitions.
In 2009 College Sport Wellington will deliver the weekly football
competitions to secondary students in the 15-19 age groups. These
competitions will be college -based, but will rely on clubs supporting the schools. Likewise Capital Football will support College Sport where it can help. There will be some flexibility for schools to enter composite teams where a school has �half a team� for example; it�s likely that this will be done in co-operation with a club.
Capital Football will retain delivery of all football up to age 14 (14th grade), and retain responsibility for all age group academy,
representative & special competitions (e.g. Nike Cup) as we currently do. This football will essentially be club-based, but there may be exceptions whereby the player�s interests are best served by playing in a school team.
Girl�s football is largely unaffected as girl�s college football is played mid-week and doesn�t suffer from the same potential for confusion and conflict at the weekends.
We are not trying to build fences between clubs and schools; in fact we�re trying to build bridges. The wish is to clarify the transition point between club football and school football, so that all participants have a clear and common set of expectations. By ensuring that the club support network carries through into the first year or two of secondary schooling, we hope to make the transition to school football easier for players, coaches, supporters and administrators when the players
reach the 15th grade.
It is essential that clubs and schools continue with relationships they currently have and clubs who have no relationships with schools consider developing such to maximise the opportunities for school leavers to be retained in the game at a club they have an affinity with.
Capital Football will be running an Under-21 men�s competition on
Sunday mornings next year to accommodate school-leavers who don�t
want to go straight into senior football when they finish college.
Likewise, if there is sufficient interest, Capital Football will offer a women�s Under-21 competition in 2009.
Both of us recognise that this is a complex issue � if there was a simple solution that worked for everyone it would have been found years ago.
It will require a lot of goodwill, effort and co-operation, particularly in the first transition year, to make sure that our young footballers are well looked after.
An important part of the �realignment� of the leagues will be to create a 15th grade competition within the College Sport league structures.
This is one of the benefits of bringing our competitions together- the ability to offer a bigger and more comprehensive league structure, such that players are getting games at an appropriate level of competition.
The schools season for 2009 will commence on Saturday 25 April for
Premier grades and 2 May for other grades; culminating in grade finals on 22 & 29 August respectively. Capital Football JPL competitions, from 14th grade and below, will play one round on Saturday 4 April, and then all junior football will follow on from Sunday 26 April (Saturday being Anzac Day).
It is envisaged that in late February there will be a joint meeting of Clubs and schools to announce the new grading format for the 15-19 age groups.
Before then Capital Football will be getting around all clubs and schools to make sure that everyone is aware of the changes, and answering questions.
In the meantime, if schools or clubs have questions please address those to your usual football contact at College Sport or Capital Football.
Kind regards
Keith Palmer
everything passed 14th grade to the colleges, to play around with for 4 years. We have enough trouble retaining kids now - Wait till the kids want to play but the College has no team available.
And if you think this is an unlikely scenario, I have just heard that with a roll of over 700, Taita College couldn't organise one cricket team, so Hutt Districts Club players from last year, are unable to play cricket this year.
1 December 2008
To all Clubs and Colleges in the Capital Football Federation and College
Sport Region
Capital Football and College Sport Football Competitions 2009
College Sport Wellington and Capital Football have, for over a year, been consulting and discussing with clubs & schools in Wellington, Western Bays/Western Zone & Hutt Valley how we better deliver football for our young players.
As part of a wider approach to improving the football environment both organisations believe we now have a mandate to merge some of our competitions.
In 2009 College Sport Wellington will deliver the weekly football
competitions to secondary students in the 15-19 age groups. These
competitions will be college -based, but will rely on clubs supporting the schools. Likewise Capital Football will support College Sport where it can help. There will be some flexibility for schools to enter composite teams where a school has �half a team� for example; it�s likely that this will be done in co-operation with a club.
Capital Football will retain delivery of all football up to age 14 (14th grade), and retain responsibility for all age group academy,
representative & special competitions (e.g. Nike Cup) as we currently do. This football will essentially be club-based, but there may be exceptions whereby the player�s interests are best served by playing in a school team.
Girl�s football is largely unaffected as girl�s college football is played mid-week and doesn�t suffer from the same potential for confusion and conflict at the weekends.
We are not trying to build fences between clubs and schools; in fact we�re trying to build bridges. The wish is to clarify the transition point between club football and school football, so that all participants have a clear and common set of expectations. By ensuring that the club support network carries through into the first year or two of secondary schooling, we hope to make the transition to school football easier for players, coaches, supporters and administrators when the players
reach the 15th grade.
It is essential that clubs and schools continue with relationships they currently have and clubs who have no relationships with schools consider developing such to maximise the opportunities for school leavers to be retained in the game at a club they have an affinity with.
Capital Football will be running an Under-21 men�s competition on
Sunday mornings next year to accommodate school-leavers who don�t
want to go straight into senior football when they finish college.
Likewise, if there is sufficient interest, Capital Football will offer a women�s Under-21 competition in 2009.
Both of us recognise that this is a complex issue � if there was a simple solution that worked for everyone it would have been found years ago.
It will require a lot of goodwill, effort and co-operation, particularly in the first transition year, to make sure that our young footballers are well looked after.
An important part of the �realignment� of the leagues will be to create a 15th grade competition within the College Sport league structures.
This is one of the benefits of bringing our competitions together- the ability to offer a bigger and more comprehensive league structure, such that players are getting games at an appropriate level of competition.
The schools season for 2009 will commence on Saturday 25 April for
Premier grades and 2 May for other grades; culminating in grade finals on 22 & 29 August respectively. Capital Football JPL competitions, from 14th grade and below, will play one round on Saturday 4 April, and then all junior football will follow on from Sunday 26 April (Saturday being Anzac Day).
It is envisaged that in late February there will be a joint meeting of Clubs and schools to announce the new grading format for the 15-19 age groups.
Before then Capital Football will be getting around all clubs and schools to make sure that everyone is aware of the changes, and answering questions.
In the meantime, if schools or clubs have questions please address those to your usual football contact at College Sport or Capital Football.
Kind regards
Keith Palmer
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Oh FFS... can we get Graeme Sole back ?
Any truth in the rumour I heard that they are adding more Admin staff to Capital Football ? When are they going to get some competent coaches or perhaps an administrator that knows what they are doing ? Anyone think they will actually help Steve and Jamie or just run around after Keith ?
Any truth in the rumour I heard that they are adding more Admin staff to Capital Football ? When are they going to get some competent coaches or perhaps an administrator that knows what they are doing ? Anyone think they will actually help Steve and Jamie or just run around after Keith ?
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Oh FFS... can we get Graeme Sole back ?
Any truth in the rumour I heard that they are adding more Admin staff to Capital Football ? When are they going to get some competent coaches or perhaps an administrator that knows what they are doing ? Anyone think they will actually help Steve and Jamie or just run around after Keith ?
Any truth in the rumour I heard that they are adding more Admin staff to Capital Football ? When are they going to get some competent coaches or perhaps an administrator that knows what they are doing ? Anyone think they will actually help Steve and Jamie or just run around after Keith ?
On the coaches I think maybe CF should be wary of moving too far from their core activity - and focus on scheduling/administering/officiating football
Founder
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What are you saying, Foxy with that emoticon. Sorry it went right over my head?
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to quote comic book guy from the simpsons:
"there is no emoticon for how i am feeling"
to be fair my gen x addled minnd doesn't have the stamina to process the menaing of that letter-someone paraphrase in 30 words an/ or emoticons please
"there is no emoticon for how i am feeling"
to be fair my gen x addled minnd doesn't have the stamina to process the menaing of that letter-someone paraphrase in 30 words an/ or emoticons please
Salmon swim upstream
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Once you reach 15th grade you MUST play for your school now, there will be no club-based competition.
If you are a good player at a sh*t school, you are f*cked.
Smithy2008-12-02 10:47:55Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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I thought thats where the work between clubs and schools, in some pseudo-mixed thing would occur?
EG: "There will be some flexibility for schools to enter composite teams where a school has �half a team� for example; it�s likely that this will be done in co-operation with a club." thelastnomad2008-12-02 11:45:38
EG: "There will be some flexibility for schools to enter composite teams where a school has �half a team� for example; it�s likely that this will be done in co-operation with a club." thelastnomad2008-12-02 11:45:38
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"As part of a wider approach to improving the football environment both organisations believe we now have a mandate to merge some of our competitions."
If the clubs have agreed to this then what is the problem?
If the clubs have agreed to this then what is the problem?
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so if your in say wellington college 1st x1 and your good enough to be in miramars central league team - what happens?? or have i missed something?
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I thought thats where the work between clubs and schools, in some pseudo-mixed thing would occur?
EG: "There will be some flexibility for schools to enter composite teams where a school has �half a team� for example; it�s likely that this will be done in co-operation with a club."
EG: "There will be some flexibility for schools to enter composite teams where a school has �half a team� for example; it�s likely that this will be done in co-operation with a club."
Indeed. It's not clear how this is expected to work. Could an existing club side, for example, just continue as is? Who knows?
Do Capital Football care? Unlikely.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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Once you reach 15th grade you MUST play for your school now, there will be no club-based competition.
If you are a good player at a sh*t school, you are f*cked.
Or if you are a 15 year old that has left school, the only place for you is Senior football.
Oh! wasn't Capital Football trying to delay the introduction of kids into senior footballl
Girls playing in JL/Promo - Sod off and play in the crap afternoon tournament or Women's football - What a great pathway!!!
Left hand/right hand not knowing what each is doing.
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I thought thats where the work between clubs and schools, in some pseudo-mixed thing would occur?
EG: "There will be some flexibility for schools to enter composite teams where a school has �half a team� for example; it�s likely that this will be done in co-operation with a club."
EG: "There will be some flexibility for schools to enter composite teams where a school has �half a team� for example; it�s likely that this will be done in co-operation with a club."
That was my understanding as well, from last years discussions. But the club/College idea seems to have fallen off the radar, and has been replaced with 2 colleges getting together as a composite team. My understanding is that the College Sport organisation are extremely unlikely to permit a non-college team to succeed in their league. This of course was what caused the last break up, when they refused to let Stop Out (and/or Petone) gain promotion.
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An emoticon doesn't say anything.
So does that mean it was a meaningless post from you, if it "doesn't say anything" !
You were just having a 'Chin' Wag
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"As part of a wider approach to improving the football environment both organisations believe we now have a mandate to merge some of our competitions."
If the clubs have agreed to this then what is the problem?
If the clubs have agreed to this then what is the problem?
This was tucked into the agenda of last Monday's meeting in the Hutt Valley. I think the wording was 'an update on the ongoing discussions'. As most of the matters raised were around senior football, I suspect that not many of the Hutt Valley junior clubs were represented, or even thought that a vote to 'provide a mandate' was to take place.
I wasn't there. Where you there, Foxy, and did a clear vote take place, or was it just another of Keith's general discussions, and "I get the feeling we now have a consensus"
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so if your in say wellington college 1st x1 and your good enough to be in miramars central league team - what happens?? or have i missed something?
Senior football should take precedence, and being in the afternoon, shouldn't really impact . However I would hate to think what will happen to players in this scenario with Wellington College in the Chatham Cup.
or where away games of the 'Big Travel League' require you to miss a College game.
In fact it raises an interesting rhetorical question? Are Wellington College players who are listed on their website as seniors, registered as such with Capital Football. This could raise some interesting arguments about how many clubs you play for in a year
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The bits about 1st XI players are a red herring. Nothing is changing at that level.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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It was my understanding from the discussions I attended that any player who, even though they may be at college, was good enough to regularly start in a CL side would be released to do so. I think the initiative, whether you agree with it or not, isn't aimed at preventing players playing at the highest level (CL) rather its focus is trying to provide a more unified and (hence perhaps) stonger competition for the others.
That was my intepretation of what was said at the meetings I went too but I didn't go to them all.
That was my intepretation of what was said at the meetings I went too but I didn't go to them all.
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Once you reach 15th grade you MUST play for your school now, there will be no club-based competition.
If you are a good player at a sh*t school, you are f*cked.
Can't you play senior mens for club and still play for your school also? or are both played on saturdays or can you have only one or the other. If you are that good of a player at 16 wouldn't it be best for you to be playing seniors against harder oppositon?
Back home we used to have the high school games midweek and club on saturday and there were a few of us who played both. and it wasn't that big of a deal getting chucked in the senior grades at 16
NB after more thorough read i have answwered some of my questions
Christo2008-12-02 16:21:57
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Once you reach 15th grade you MUST play for your school now, there will be no club-based competition.
If you are a good player at a sh*t school, you are f*cked.
Can't you play senior mens for club and still play for your school also? or are both played on saturdays or can you have only one or the other. If you are that good of a player at 16 wouldn't it be best for you to be playing seniors against harder oppositon?
Back home we used to have the high school games midweek and club on saturday and there were a few of us who played both. and it wasn't that big of a deal getting chucked in the senior grades at 16
NB after more thorough read i have answwered some of my questions
As I said above - this isn't about 1st XI players (those 16 and 17 years old) it's about younger ones - 14 and 15 year olds - who are almost always too small to start (or play meaningful minutes) for senior teams (at a decent level).
They now have no recourse to a club competition.
So if you're a good player at a poor school your choices (it seems) will be:
1. Play for that school's age group team and be the only good player in the team playing at a poor standard of competition.
2. Play for that school's 1st XI where the players might be better but will be much bigger than you and you probably won't start, so won't play a lot.
Likewise if you're put in a team at your school and the coach is rubbish you can't really get away from it - you're stuck there, unless you transfer schools, which is a big ask.
Those are just a few of the issues...
It's an awful move from a player development perspective, but it sure does make it easier for Capital Football.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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it seams like its why things are done these days, to make life easier for someone which is almost never the right thing to do.
and thanks for clearing that up for me :)
oh and why the frik have a U21 league? waste of resources. those players that are 18-21 and aren't ready for senior level should grow a pair.
and thanks for clearing that up for me :)
oh and why the frik have a U21 league? waste of resources. those players that are 18-21 and aren't ready for senior level should grow a pair.
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I think the U21 league has some merit. It's essentially a social league for school leavers, which is fine. Why not have it if there's a demand?
Big question though is why not just move all the teenage leagues to Sunday - then kids could play for their club AND their school, get more football, and not get lost in the cracks.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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if theres a demand i guess then yes. but old guys are easier to run around 
Or do them midweek, straight after school so it doesn't get too dark while playing ( i do remember playing under lights sometimes).
did the people who came up with this plan think of these options surely they must've???
Or do them midweek, straight after school so it doesn't get too dark while playing ( i do remember playing under lights sometimes).
did the people who came up with this plan think of these options surely they must've???
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College Sport has always been fairly intrasigent about moving their games off Saturdays. Clubs aren't really equipped to run Wednesday afternoon leagues.
Anyway. I'm going to close this because it's just depressing me.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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I think the U21 league has some merit. It's essentially a social league for school leavers, which is fine. Why not have it if there's a demand?
Big question though is why not just move all the teenage leagues to Sunday - then kids could play for their club AND their school, get more football, and not get lost in the cracks.
is there a demand?
Founder
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i had to google intransigent. argh big words
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I think the U21 league has some merit. It's essentially a social league for school leavers, which is fine. Why not have it if there's a demand?
Big question though is why not just move all the teenage leagues to Sunday - then kids could play for their club AND their school, get more football, and not get lost in the cracks.
is there a demand?
You'd assume there is. Palmer has "discussed it" and "gained a mandate" from the clubs, so you would assume there must be demand.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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I don�t think there is. It has been driven by the junior clubs who say that some senior clubs don't have an appreciation of the issue.
I don�t think they do. A social league for u21's would be extremely
difficult to manage (players working Sundays, hang over no shows etc).I really cant see where the market is for this. If a player coming out of college was any good they would play firsts or seconds. If they werent they would slip into a social team.
This is going to end up with the vast majority of the participants already playing club or college football. Fact. More stress on our grounds. Club and Capital Football resources could be better utilized in other areas. We already cater for plenty of social football in New Zealand.
Founder
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Start our own rebel organisation???? infiltrate capital football? hrm
But i agree with feverish on the U21's.
But i agree with feverish on the U21's.
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Feverish, would it be fair to summarise what you said by saying that "they don't know what they're doing?"
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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well its the clubs that have put the pressure on - most notably Nth Wgtn - but if thye find out they can only attract those already in the game - then they should pull the pin.
Founder
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I think the U21 league has some merit. It's essentially a social league for school leavers, which is fine. Why not have it if there's a demand?
Big question though is why not just move all the teenage leagues to Sunday - then kids could play for their club AND their school, get more football, and not get lost in the cracks.
is there a demand?
You'd assume there is. Palmer has "discussed it" and "gained a mandate" from the clubs, so you would assume there must be demand.
This is the second or third year that KP looked at U21 league or similar league. Last year it was an U19 league.
[QUOTE=Palmer in Dec 2007]
However, clubs were told under no uncertain terms, that it was not to be used to try and retain players who were also involved in top level school teams. Last year from memory, 4 clubs clubs expressed a potential for having a team. Then they released that it would be an expensive exercise for those players new to the work force. The CF costs were half the normal senior team capitation fee, but NZF levy's were full price for a senior team. The clubs would either need to get full subs from these players, or cross subsidize them. Most teams never progressed.
It is quite similar to the girls only leagues at junior level. Keith uses the expression "if we build it, they will come". I say 'Don't hold your breathe'!
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That's interesting - why not?
Surely that would be one of the primary benefits...
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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And speaking of poor quality coaches for the teams, how would i get in to coaching? I coached my high schools girls 1st XI one year and have thought bout getting back in to it, would it be best to get in touch with my club and see what they say? have had a look at capital football and all the courses are finished for the year it looks like
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She's good value and runs their coach development programme.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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