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Marquee
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6.8K
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about 14 years

liberty_nz wrote:

Mainland FC wrote:

...even Bertos in his playing twilight was faster than Manny today.

Wow. Different positions, different types of players. I usually don't mind your analysis on things but I think you've lost it on this one. Bertos at RB was a not-so-successful Ricki experiment.

Perhaps we should bin Mossy because of his inability to make runs into the opposition box and hit the target?

Thanks for the backhanded compliment... I usually "don't mind my analysis on things" either, but equally I don't claim to be a know-all or to get it right every time. However, I don't think I "lost it" here.  I was not comparing Bertos with Muscat as right-backs, as Bertos clearly was an attacking winger / midfielder with lots of goal assists, and Manny is a defender, mostly a fullback or an occasional CB. 

I simply compared two players who are over thirty. At that age, players in this relatively fast and increasingly skilful league need to have some inherent speed to remain useful as they age, or to limit the ground they can safely cover without leaving their area exposed. Bertos kept up with speed until he was 31, which is what age Manny is now, before he went to that hub of skill and excellence, the Indian league. 

Bertos was a faster player than Manny so even as he aged he was able to track back and be useful defending if necessary. Muscat is taller, heavier and slower, so I would prefer not to see him run up the pitch so far that he can't track back in time, especially that he is foul-prone.  He might have been able to track back fast enough in the past, he can't do so as easily now. That does not make him a useless player of course; but it makes him a more limited player and he needs to recognise it, unless the team gets the word that it's an all-out attack time and damn the torpedoes (much like against the Jets where we saw Siggy as an attacking mid all of a sudden in the dying minutes).

Harsh on Mossy! I would like to see him take some penalties before he's binned.

Chant Savant
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12K
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over 17 years

Two sad facts about football.

1 - You cant win matches by not conceding goals unless you are scoring more than you concede.

2 - The casual supporter is more likely to pay money to see goals being scored as opposed to a decent defensive unit.

So Ernie has it right when he bangs on about needing a striker because even if you give away 3 soft goals in a match, you can still take all 3 points by scoring 4!

Appiah without the pace
6.8K
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19K
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about 17 years

2ndBest wrote:

Going back to our defence, I decided to look back at back 4 combos (personal rather than positional) this year. Numbers are crazy. For starting back 4 only.

  • In 20 rounds, we have had 15 different back fours. 11 in the last 13 games.
  • The most common back 4 has been Muscat/Siggy/Dura/Gulley. It's happened 3 times. 3!
  • Remember in 2013/14 when defenders were dropping like flies? We only had 11 combinations in 27 games. Already at 15.

I know people will say this is an excuse. But defending as a group is important. When you have that much changing, admittedly not all of it is injuries and suspension, it's not wonder we've leaked goals.

Just as a comparison, Sydney,  who have the best defence in the league, have only started 5 different players in the backline. 4 different combo.

I also went back and looked how much was due to injury or suspension. There have been 15 instances where the backline changed the next week, 11 seem to have coincided with an injury/suspended player either out due to injury/suspension, or coming back. But can't say whether a change would have happened regardless of injury/suspension.

Legend
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15K
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over 17 years

I would keep Manny/Lia. As others have mentioned, they are valuable squad players, gold dust at this level. 

I am leaning towards binning Fenton. If he doesn't look like he can be a starting right back for us at this level then I'm ready to turf out. For me he's not good enough to play in the attacking end. Kosta is the level we're now looking at in those attacking roles, and Fenton's miles away from that. 

Marquee
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8.2K
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over 17 years

liberty_nz wrote:

I don't get why people would turf Manny and Vinnie.

Manny has been solid in all the positions he has played, perhaps not spectacular but is still a valuable squad member. His covering of CD and DM this season surprised me and reminded me how competent he is as a player.

Vinnie has been good when he has played and bossed the midfield in some games before getting injured. He was been accurate with his passing and support play earlier in the season. But I guess the Vinnie haters don't easily forgive.

I would suggest that both of them recognise that they are squaddies these days and if they are happy to be such I would keep them. Neither are going to walk in to other teams as first teamers so either they are backup here or elsewhere. I would prefer with us. They are both still very solid and able players at this level. Vinnie has had a few injury issues this season but it doesn't seem like he's on the permanent knack list.

I'd sign them both on 2+1 deals if they were keen.

This 'bin them' talk kind of smacks of when the Siggy haters wanted to get rid of him once he ticked over 30 years of age. Siggy got a 3 year deal at 31 and was well worth that. I don't know why Vinnie and Manny wouldn't be worthy of similar deals.

Been saying the same thing for 4 seasons.  Too reliant on the same players who haven't done the job.  Time to move on a rebuild

Marquee
2.1K
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8.2K
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over 17 years

2ndBest wrote:

Going back to our defence, I decided to look back at back 4 combos (personal rather than positional) this year. Numbers are crazy. For starting back 4 only.

  • In 20 rounds, we have had 15 different back fours. 11 in the last 13 games.
  • The most common back 4 has been Muscat/Siggy/Dura/Gulley. It's happened 3 times. 3!
  • Remember in 2013/14 when defenders were dropping like flies? We only had 11 combinations in 27 games. Already at 15.

I know people will say this is an excuse. But defending as a group is important. When you have that much changing, admittedly not all of it is injuries and suspension, it's not wonder we've leaked goals.

Reality is though even our best back 4 isn't very good.  Both Manny and Doyle collect regular yellows and our centre backs are both 35. 

Appiah without the pace
6.8K
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19K
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about 17 years

Dura is 33. But I take your point.

Marquee
7.8K
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9.7K
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almost 14 years

The thing about Fenton is we have no idea what level he would be at as an attacker if he hadn't had to re learn his craft as a defender.

Legend
3.7K
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15K
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over 17 years

Perhaps. He's been unlucky with his shoulders. 

Appiah without the pace
6.8K
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19K
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about 17 years

Although last season our back four was mostly, Muscat, Dura, Siggy, Fenton (and a bit of Doyle) and it was only 4 goals away from being the best in the league.

Legend
3.7K
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15K
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over 17 years
Marquee
970
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6.5K
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almost 12 years

Ryan wrote:

The thing about Fenton is we have no idea what level he would be at as an attacker if he hadn't had to re learn his craft as a defender.

Could be Ernie's one big mistake so far.

First Team Squad
1.3K
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1.7K
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about 15 years

2ndBest wrote:

Although last season our back four was mostly, Muscat, Dura, Siggy, Fenton (and a bit of Doyle) and it was only 4 goals away from being the best in the league.

One of the reasons I don't think the personnel at the back is the issue. Last season the Nix were consistently on the front foot with majority of possession and constant pressure in the front third. This year we consistently turn over the ball in the midfield close to our goal without being able to transition to attack, opponents winning the ball and able to free it into space bypassing the midfield while the defense are still scrambling.

Fix the impotent front third and you'll see a much improved defensive effort.

valeo
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Legend
4.7K
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18K
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over 17 years

Jerzy Merino wrote:

Ryan wrote:

The thing about Fenton is we have no idea what level he would be at as an attacker if he hadn't had to re learn his craft as a defender.

Could be Ernie's one big mistake so far.

I felt it was more out of necessity than anything else.

First Team Squad
500
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1.9K
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over 17 years

valeo wrote:

Jerzy Merino wrote:

Ryan wrote:

The thing about Fenton is we have no idea what level he would be at as an attacker if he hadn't had to re learn his craft as a defender.

Could be Ernie's one big mistake so far.

I felt it was more out of necessity than anything else.

It's because we aren't willing to sign foreign defenders and there was no one from Australia or NZ good enough. This is why you sign up foreigners - to plug gaps locals cannot fill.

Marquee
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8.2K
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over 17 years

2ndBest wrote:

Dura is 33. But I take your point.

I was never good on the details

Marquee
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8.2K
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over 17 years

2ndBest wrote:

Although last season our back four was mostly, Muscat, Dura, Siggy, Fenton (and a bit of Doyle) and it was only 4 goals away from being the best in the league.

What has changed this year I think is that Dura has had a really bad season.  Not just average, really bad and off the pace.  I have been a huge fan but I wonder whether Siggie has carried him a bit - he is definitely more of a pure defender

Marquee
970
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6.5K
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almost 12 years

valeo wrote:

Jerzy Merino wrote:

Ryan wrote:

The thing about Fenton is we have no idea what level he would be at as an attacker if he hadn't had to re learn his craft as a defender.

Could be Ernie's one big mistake so far.

I felt it was more out of necessity than anything else.

Maybe. But Fenton still isn't any good as a defender.

Appiah without the pace
6.8K
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19K
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about 17 years

james dean wrote:

2ndBest wrote:

Although last season our back four was mostly, Muscat, Dura, Siggy, Fenton (and a bit of Doyle) and it was only 4 goals away from being the best in the league.

What has changed this year I think is that Dura has had a really bad season.  Not just average, really bad and off the pace.  I have been a huge fan but I wonder whether Siggie has carried him a bit - he is definitely more of a pure defender

Didn't you say you barely watch a game this year? ;)

I can't imagine having a new guy either side of you every week helps your game. Perhaps he is trying to do more to cover the inexperience of other?

Marquee
1.4K
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5.3K
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about 17 years

2ndBest wrote:

james dean wrote:

2ndBest wrote:

Although last season our back four was mostly, Muscat, Dura, Siggy, Fenton (and a bit of Doyle) and it was only 4 goals away from being the best in the league.

What has changed this year I think is that Dura has had a really bad season.  Not just average, really bad and off the pace.  I have been a huge fan but I wonder whether Siggie has carried him a bit - he is definitely more of a pure defender

Didn't you say you barely watch a game this year? ;)

I can't imagine having a new guy either side of you every week helps your game. Perhaps he is trying to do more to cover the inexperience of other?

Not so simple to purely lump all the blame on the defence. On top of the ever changing make up of our defence as 2B has pointed out, we have as a unit (possibly again the ever changing line ups in all positions) never adequately worked out how to reduce the risk posed by counter attacks which often leaves our defence out of shape/under manned and ability to score/defend set pieces. There was some crazy stat from the Wanderers game, something like the first time we had scored before the 60th min since the Victory win (?) - chasing games so often plays to our weakness to the threat of counter attacks.

I had earlier pointed out Moss's inability with the ball at his feet, it often means that when we try and play possession football our CDs only have forward options and when those are closed down well, as the Jets did well last weekend, we struggle for fluency and result in low percentage options. 

Marquee
2.1K
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8.2K
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over 17 years

2ndBest wrote:

james dean wrote:

2ndBest wrote:

Although last season our back four was mostly, Muscat, Dura, Siggy, Fenton (and a bit of Doyle) and it was only 4 goals away from being the best in the league.

What has changed this year I think is that Dura has had a really bad season.  Not just average, really bad and off the pace.  I have been a huge fan but I wonder whether Siggie has carried him a bit - he is definitely more of a pure defender

Didn't you say you barely watch a game this year? ;)

I can't imagine having a new guy either side of you every week helps your game. Perhaps he is trying to do more to cover the inexperience of other?

Not many games IN FULL - I have tended to get very frustrated and switch off!

All those things are possible - I just think we need to be a bit hard nosed about this and accept that he might not be first choice next season and plan accordingly.  These guys can't go on forever!

Appiah without the pace
6.8K
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19K
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about 17 years

I suspect they are looking for a starting centre back to partner Dura, because while they seem to have found a roughy in Fox, I doubt they seem him as a long term starter just yet. Then when Dura retires next year, hopefully Boxall returns from South Africa. Or maybe Musa.

Starting XI
2.5K
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3.2K
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about 12 years

Keep Fenton! I think he is a player for the future. Must admit, he had not the best year.

Marquee
5.3K
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almost 13 years

I would say that Riera is a vital part of our defence too both in terms of screening them and covering for fullbacks when they advance, but also for giving them a secure outlet to pass to if they get pressed in possession by opposition strikers. And I think this year Riera has just seemed less mobile than last year, which has made our backline more vulnerable to counterattacks and pressing. Hopefully it's just him carrying niggles and not his age catching up with him.

RR
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Bossi Insider
11K
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35K
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about 16 years

I would say that Riera is a vital part of our defence too both in terms of screening them and covering for fullbacks when they advance, but also for giving them a secure outlet to pass to if they get pressed in possession by opposition strikers. And I think this year Riera has just seemed less mobile than last year, which has made our backline more vulnerable to counterattacks and pressing. Hopefully it's just him carrying niggles and not his age catching up with him.

Riera has been playing further forward this season rather than screening the back four as he has done previously. 

Fenton is still on contract next season, so he isn't going anywhere.

Marquee
5.3K
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almost 13 years

RR wrote:

I would say that Riera is a vital part of our defence too both in terms of screening them and covering for fullbacks when they advance, but also for giving them a secure outlet to pass to if they get pressed in possession by opposition strikers. And I think this year Riera has just seemed less mobile than last year, which has made our backline more vulnerable to counterattacks and pressing. Hopefully it's just him carrying niggles and not his age catching up with him.

Riera has been playing further forward this season rather than screening the back four as he has done previously. 

Has he? The way I've seen it is that he's still been playing as a DM but just isn't covering as much ground as he used to, so he's not at the back mopping up as much as he used to because he's taken longer to drop and cover. Maybe it is a tactical decision though. If so, I'd be curious about why that is, seeing as our defence often looks more exposed against counterattacks than it did last year.

I wish there was a touch map, heat map, or average position graphic on the Nix's stats page because I'd be interested to see how our shape has changed this year vs last year, especially the shape of our midfield

Marquee
2.1K
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8.2K
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over 17 years

2ndBest wrote:

I suspect they are looking for a starting centre back to partner Dura, because while they seem to have found a roughy in Fox, I doubt they seem him as a long term starter just yet. Then when Dura retires next year, hopefully Boxall returns from South Africa. Or maybe Musa.

We need a locked in starter in the other CB position leaving Durante and Fox to fight it out for second spot.  Would improve us out of sight considering Manny has played there this season!

Marquee
1.4K
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5.3K
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about 17 years

RR wrote:

I would say that Riera is a vital part of our defence too both in terms of screening them and covering for fullbacks when they advance, but also for giving them a secure outlet to pass to if they get pressed in possession by opposition strikers. And I think this year Riera has just seemed less mobile than last year, which has made our backline more vulnerable to counterattacks and pressing. Hopefully it's just him carrying niggles and not his age catching up with him.

Riera has been playing further forward this season rather than screening the back four as he has done previously. 

Has he? The way I've seen it is that he's still been playing as a DM but just isn't covering as much ground as he used to, so he's not at the back mopping up as much as he used to because he's taken longer to drop and cover. Maybe it is a tactical decision though. If so, I'd be curious about why that is, seeing as our defence often looks more exposed against counterattacks than it did last year.

I wish there was a touch map, heat map, or average position graphic on the Nix's stats page because I'd be interested to see how our shape has changed this year vs last year, especially the shape of our midfield

I think it has depended on the make up of the midfield, when Vinnie was there Riera was the more 'attacking' of the two. 

Legend
7.8K
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15K
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about 17 years

paulm wrote:

I would keep Manny/Lia. As others have mentioned, they are valuable squad players, gold dust at this level. 

I am leaning towards binning Fenton. If he doesn't look like he can be a starting right back for us at this level then I'm ready to turf out. For me he's not good enough to play in the attacking end. Kosta is the level we're now looking at in those attacking roles, and Fenton's miles away from that. 

Do you think he's had enough of a run? Or that the injury liability is part of the decision to be made?

Legend
7.8K
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15K
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about 17 years

2ndBest wrote:

Although last season our back four was mostly, Muscat, Dura, Siggy, Fenton (and a bit of Doyle) and it was only 4 goals away from being the best in the league.

and Boxall? or am I getting my wires crossed entirely? thought he was quite good at times- strong on defence and suprisingly handy barging forward. Got goals too IIRC?

Phoenix Academy
59
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230
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over 11 years

Cut Fenton he's injury prone and not A League standard he's lucky Ernie fell in love with him right at the start but has done nothing since he couldn't tackle a fish supper and to think he's also an AW.The joke at training is to ask him to take a long throw

Marquee
4.5K
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6.8K
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about 14 years

number8 wrote:

Keep Fenton! I think he is a player for the future. Must admit, he had not the best year.

I am sure we'll keep Fenton, but I am worried about his mental and physical sturdiness since his shoulder injuries.

My question is, is his rehab complete and this is the best we can see of him? If so, maybe it is time to let him play up the paddock again, and get a proper fullback now that we are likely to have a few to choose from. 

Or accept that he is still on a road to full recovery and he'll be a good & useful local player in future, as he is still quite young.

First Team Squad
1.3K
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1.7K
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about 15 years

charger1 wrote:

Cut Fenton he's injury prone and not A League standard he's lucky Ernie fell in love with him right at the start but has done nothing since he couldn't tackle a fish supper and to think he's also an AW.The joke at training is to ask him to take a long throw

So Fenton is definately the new Lochhead right? Might as well just copy and paste this comment into every match thread from now on.

Starting XI
100
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2.1K
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about 17 years

We need a big ugly brute of a center back like Topor Stanley or Paddy Kisnorbo ,you can build around that kind of player ,and useful at corners and free kicks into the box as well.

At present we are way too pedestrian at the back far  too soft  and with no Siggy theres no fire in the belly ,he was never a brilliantly technical player but you would have him in any defence simply  for his sheer blood and guts attitude!

The wheels fell off the bus after we demolished Adelaide at home,no coincidence that we lost Siggy and Krishna about the same time,a decent striker to compliment Kosta and some back bone in the shape of a decent centre back along with the reasonably decent midfield we have at present and I think we would become top three challengers!

WeeNix
340
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550
·
almost 12 years

Bring back Boxall and offer him the captaincy after next season.

Marquee
7.8K
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9.7K
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almost 14 years

Is he still struggling in sa?

Marquee
1.4K
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5.3K
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about 17 years

pierre wrote:

Bring back Boxall and offer him the captaincy after next season.

absence makes the heart grow fonder?
Phoenix Academy
98
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450
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over 11 years

Fox is looking very much like regular first team material to me....

Chant Savant
2.5K
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12K
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over 17 years

Bullion wrote:

pierre wrote:

Bring back Boxall and offer him the captaincy after next season.

absence makes the heart grow fonder?

An abscess will make your farts go "Honda"

Appiah without the pace
6.8K
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19K
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about 17 years

So which player are we piling on today, while ignoring that they have a contract for next year?

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