Crowds - The thread of Australian whining

Not close enough to make suggestions about increasing your crowds ... but you look like being the only team who will not average 10K + for the season... OK Heart and Mariners get there with Derby matches however that will never change and both are steadily increasing their membership base.

On a brighter note your matches are getting considerably higher TV rating in Australian over the last few weeks...  this reflects the new Nis's is my guess ... never before has a NZ side be seen to be a ball playing side worth watching ... today you are and many are talking about how well you play today.... big kisses for those who brought that about ...

I often glance at your media .... HHHMMmmmmmm am I write in saying there is no one in the general NZ media industry of in any position of power who has a football background ... further it appears to me just looking at your media that many in NZ media positions of power hHHmmmm sorta want Football to get back in it's box... finally and I think it's an Aussie flu some have caught in NZ ... some Football folk in the NZ media bag it out ... 

Meaning I guess how the F do you get a positive supportive press ... I have no idea or suggestion ... however I  see a problem the Nix's have that other A-League teams don't ... well it's not like Australia gets great media compared to say cricket, Rl, AFL but when compared to by gone years get reasonable media... 

All Blacks to start losing. But seriously, if the Nix were top of the A-League the NZ press would get behind them. Same as the Herald held the front page so they could put the All Whites all over it when they drew with Italy at the World Cup.

Our 5-0 win was shown on the sports news on TV One after, among over things, freestyle skiing and a local ironman competition. You can't seriously tell me that more people care about those sports than the biggest sport in the world. I honestly think a lot of people in the media have the traditional rugbyhead disdain of football and would rather the Phoenix failed than succeeded. That doesn't help crowds either.

#tinfoilhat

 

So much these two.Have people forgotten what happened when we made the finals.Getting really pissed of with media types from Auckland banging on about the attendance at Phoenix games.Take at look at Aucklands support of sports teams before having a crack at us.

I agree with this tbh.

We are going to push up the ladder and crowds will increase so I'm just getting in early.

Could we (forumers) please refrain from using the term "bandwagon". Yes there are casual, discretionary supporters who will come to games in response to better results and quality of play, general Nix buzz, to be part of the resurgence or whatever reason - so what ?

Shouldn't they be welcomed with open arms -hopefully they can be converted to regular attendees but even if they boost the crowd and add to the club's coffers on a shorter term basis isn't that still a good thing ?

One of the very very few criticisms I've read of Yellow Fever that I think has some merit is some members labelling new comers band wagoners - I really don't get why anyone feels a need to do that - no good reason anyway

At its worst the sentiment manifests itself in the singing of "where were you when we were shit" to new / returning supporters - not a great way to encourage people to return and create a positive impression of the YF.

That's me - carry on.

The good thing about band wagoners is that they think we have a wagon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17Z5J7tRVEU

Made a bet with my boss a few months ago that the game at eden park will draw more than 20k (he's saying less than 12). Even with the good form I think I might have been a little optimistic

Have no problem with that. It's been almost 2 years of torture up until recent weeks, so never expected discretionary supporters to put up with it. It will be good to have them back.  

15+ if we beat Brisbane.

They've just announced free public transport with a match day ticket, to me that says pre-sales have been average, and this is a ploy to drive ticket sales...

It will be kids free next....

Wgtn season pass holders get free public transport - but the games have been at such naff times that it's not all that helpful so far.

LOL....I was thinking after the 5-0 thrashing how the media could find a negative about that result. Well they have found a way......the narrative has swung away from the excellent result to....."whats wrong with the Nix crowds?"

Chris Rattue and Radio Sports both could not resist a negative dig.

I think the issue of low crowds is a fair one to be raised.  I used to say the prices were too high, but they have brought those down well.

As a season ticket holder, I hate having 10 home games out of 27, and I hate the home schedule we have had this season, But of course Ive been to every game. I doubt that these problems are whats stopping the more casual punter.

Its gonna look bad when larger crowds turn up for our "away" home games, but I'll be even more peed off if the number of these is extended (or even kept the same to be honest). But as Phoenix owner , what can you do when Westpac is only getting 7,000?

I guess a lot have been turned off by last years dire efforts, and even I and many others were struggling in RH's last couple of games, cos the fare on offer was terrible . I don't expect to see a winning team each week but I do expect to see a team that attacks, tries hard and gives it their all.

I don't have any answers really, Maybe we need to survey 20,000 people and ask "why weren't you at the Phoenix last Sunday"?

 

Actually, I think if those things make someone who goes to all games lose interest (or that they hate it) then it's probably put a casual fan off more. 

During the 6 weeks with no games in wellington, even I lost interest. So I can only imagine how much interest a more casual fan would have lost. 

Now that we've had a fair few games in a row, I'm right back into it again. But then I looked at the schedule and there isn't another game for a month again, so that disappointed me again. Had a conversation with someone at work who had heard about a lot of nix games in welington, and the buzz of us winning. She asked when the next game was, I said a month and she said "damn, oh well" and lost interest immediately. 

I agree with this, I think the sporadic home games make people in Wellington feel disconnected from the team. Plus it seems to me that there's been no marketing for games in Wellington at all really. I saw a thread on the Nix's Facebook page asking why people aren't coming and a bunch of people said "it's too expensive" and the official Nix FB response was "but we had $10 tickets in the Huawei Bay last game and we still got a low crowd" and a bunch of people said "really? I never heard about that". I only saw it mentioned once on the Nix page and on here I think.

Look you're not going to fill Westpac stadium unless its a major playoff game so why not make it $10 sit anywhere. I know an Aucklander who went to your last game and said it cost $60 for tickets (and they were allocated) which is ridiculous considering the stadium was two thirds empty. By all accounts the security is often officious if you try to change seats. Make it cheaper and let people sit anywhere. Better more bums on seats for less charge.

The only time I have seen security officious on where to sit is actually to get into aisle 22, which is ridiculous since its the cheapest seats, but not the actual seats themselves. Other than that it has to be allocated because of season ticket sales, which do flow through to potential sell out fixtures. But you can pretty much sit anywhere so long as you are prepared to move if you are in someones seat.

As for changing the price down to a blanket $10, well that would be a pretty large drop in income. Personally I believe that is quite a bit too low for what costs are associated with running the team. I'm assuming it wasn't $60 per person, how many people was it for?

Couldn't agree more Bluemagic

$10, sit anywhere? That's ASBP talk that is.

Haha. Nice one. A-League football for the price of one beer. Some chance.

if you get 7000 at $25 each then in theory you should need about 17500 at $10 each for the same income. However, there's complicating factors at play - child and concession tickets, what proportion of the total are free tickets, what impact bigger crowds might have on sponsorship deals and merchandise sales, etc. Also season tickets would be a lot cheaper if you did that, and then you should get more people buying them, which would help create a bigger connection to the community. I think the amount of people you would need would not be as high as 17k once that was factored in. Maybe more 15kish which is perhaps acheivable long term at $10 a ticket... Maybe....

 

Think there's a few things the club would admit (privately only) that they got wrong this season, and the playing schedule would be one of them. However they have got the big ticket item right - employing Merrick - and they know this side has been making rapid progress, which could take them close to a home final - even despite the winless opening portion of the season. At worst they are on track for building a championship team for next season. Think the marketing team know that sitting 9th - second bottom - isn't worth throwing major bucks at - but in 4 weeks, who knows what position we could be in. Odds are we'll slip up tomorrow night at Brisbane - but Suncorp is probably the only ground right now I'd say that I don't expect us to win.  

[quote=Tegal]

Actually, I think if those things make someone who goes to all games lose interest (or that they hate it) then it's probably put a casual fan off more. 

During the 6 weeks with no games in wellington, even I lost interest. So I can only imagine how much interest a more casual fan would have lost. 

Now that we've had a fair few games in a row, I'm right back into it again. But then I looked at the schedule and there isn't another game for a month again, so that disappointed me again. Had a conversation with someone at work who had heard about a lot of nix games in welington, and the buzz of us winning. She asked when the next game was, I said a month and she said "damn, oh well" and lost interest immediately. 

[/quote

Obviously not real football supporters.

I sort of had a Tegal conversation in reverse. A colleague asked me about the last win and he knows a little about football. I said 'well nobody expected that, although we thought we could win it" and he said "I didn't even know they were playing".

There's advertising in the form of posters at bus stops or on buses but that's about it. If you live outside of Wellington then there is even less exposure. You rarely see advertising on the TV outside of Sky which I find strange as the amount of obscure lighting, furniture, etc companies that advertise on the terrestrial TV suggests it can't be that much.

Looking at TVNZ they charge about a grand and a half for advertising around 17:00 - that rises to eight thousand during the news.

 Fundamentally though it's getting the media on board and by the media I think the biggest influence is 18:00 news. A segment a day before a match or Friday for weekend games would draw in crowds no question. When do they ever talk about the Phoenix before a match?

The Nix have always looked very polished but have never cracked the media in a way that influences attendance. I have no faith in Welnix though changing this, particularly in light of the traveling home matches circus that has bogged down much of our season.

Even after all this time the Phoenix have just not gelled within the community. Which is surprising when you look at the obvious EPL snobs that attended the All Whites. There are footy fans out there they just would rather just watch it at home.

 I know one guy who every time I see him talks about Spurs and yet I've only managed to get him to attend one match and it's known that I can get a borrowed  season ticket now and again for free. Another guy maybe attends one match a season, maybe more if the Nix makes the play offs but will go on and on about Leeds.

That's actually not fair. Leading a busy life influences how you relate to football. If football gets pushed to your periphery by games not being played at home than other things will come to the focus. Work, family, stress, illness can all take footballs' place pretty easily.

I think the reality is that the "real" supporters (aka tragics or nutters) only number 4-7k in Wgtn and the challenge is how to grab more and turn them so to speak.

Sadly I think it will only be acheived with finals football.

(grrr and sad emoticon)

I lead a busy life but football  to me is the number thing ( apart from  my wife)  in my life. All the other things mentioned are part of life, but to me football is right up there. You are either a supporter or you are not.
One of my mates is a Spurs fan and last Sunday over a few beers I asked him when was the last time he watched a live game.
Answer--- I only watch the highlights. Real football supporter- I don't think so.

So how many times do you get to Old Trafford then this season?

Also you're not born what you'd call a 'real supporter' - you become one. 

How do you become one? By casually starting to get into football, going to the odd game etc until you're hooked. 

I can think of Patrick on here as a perfect example of that actually. I believe he only came along to the playoffs one year (you'd probably dismiss him and call him a bandwagoner) but now he is a real fan who puts in a lot of time and even developed an app for us! 

I'm a little bit ashamed to say that I didn't follow the Phoenix at all in the first two seasons. The third season, I went to the first game of the year and then didn't come back until the playoff against Perth. The atmosphere at that game got me hooked, and then the game against the Jets was just the icing on the cake. 

The next season (season 4), I attended as many of the matches as I could, and started following the team more by watching away games on TV etc. Given how many games I attended in that season, I didn't really have much choice but to buy a season pass for season 5. I've only missed one game within NZ since then, and I guess you could describe me as a "real fan".

I went from not caring about the Nix at all, to being a bandwagoner for the two playoff games, to being a causal fan to being a season pass holder, all in the space of 2 years. 

Thanks Patrick. A perfect example of what FT and I are trying to say. 

Don't be ashamed at all. 

Pretty stupid comment from someone that comes across as reasonably intelligent. I watch as many live games as possible plus I watch as many other games as I can. If I lived in Manchester ( thank God I don't) and could afford it, I would probably be one of the 75000 every game.

Wonderfully constructive as always leggy. 

Let's just stick to 6k per game and tell any one else who shows up to bugger off as they're clearly not real football supporters, and if they haven't been there at every game since day 1 then they're not welcome. 

That way we can keep the illusion that we are better than all those 'fair weather supporters' and support the team happily until they disband it because we are only getting 6 thousand due to the arrogance of the 'real football supporters' not welcoming and encouraging new fans. That'd be fu*king awesome and ironic wouldn't it?