He's also known to hassle and harass plenty of YF (including myself) constantly on Twitter over the stupidest things.
Is this him?
Crowds - The thread of Australian whining
I was over with my group on the shaded side and thought the effort from the Fever Zone was awesome. I even mention to a few people around me who where wondering what the words where to get the Yellow Fever app.
It does sound like because we had been meeting and discussing chants for 4 or so weeks there was a belief that on the day we would have thousands of people who would be chanting and know the words.
It didn't happen, but for our first home game I thought it was a great effort and some of the chants where really good and hopefully it can only get better from here.
[/quote]
That was me. And that is totally shit. If there's anything I can do to make it up to them I certainly will.
This issue has been chucked around a fair bit on twitter.
We have tried (for 6 years or so) the nicely nicely let's make it easy and everyone will join in. It hasn't worked. Yesterday I lost my patience for about 5 minutes and had a go at one bloke. I sort of regret it, but I also sort of don't. I wish I'd worded it a bit differently, but honestly I'm fed up with all the passengers in the Zone.
So I'm truly sorry (and a bit gutted) that I offended your friends. I would like to email them or call them or something to try to get them back. Let me know what I can do.
But on the other hand, I think everyone in here needs to have words with everyone who stands near them and tell them to get involved. Or don't, and go sit in the sun.
[/quote]
Fair play Smithy , I screen snapped this and flicked it to his email and also exchanged a few texts with him today and basically told him it wasn't directed at us but the bloke who was closer to you and that (hopefully) it was just a one off and something thats never happened in my 6 years in the zone...no doubt he'll have a sulk and admire from 23 for a bit
Once people get the hang of things can we try "Stand Up" again?
Soz! Jokes.
Evidently, if the yellow fever is full of people "who like to be near the atmosphere" then something has gone. In comparison to 3-4 seasons ago, I reckon numerous of individuals have left the YF, and the zone itself has decreased in population. Why is this.. I cannot answer you that
I just find it fascinating that Sundays game pretty much re-iterated what I said 7 months ago. The chat on twitter has also been very interesting with many similar view points being bantered around.
End of the day, chant, sit, stand, whatever, the yellow fever executives have absolutely no right to tell someone where they should be seated, nor tell them how to support the boys. We are all there to back the Wellington Phoenix Football Club. If someone doesn't chant, big deal, they've paid there money and they've taken the time to back the lads. That's what it is ALL about.
James. I'm keen to meet with you over a beer to have a chat about what you think we can all do to help improve the Fever Zone - I'm paying. Honestly, bickering with one another on here isn't going to solve a thing, and I think we both want the Fever Zone's support of the club to be as strong as it can be, so we may as well focus our efforts on that. Flick me an email - patrick[at]yellowfever.co.nz, or send me a message on the Twitters and we can sort out a time/place.
The Fever are great and I'm not criticising, they were great on Sunday, but like Steve-O I don't understand what the problem of not chanting is. A full zone looks better than a half full one, and the noise will be the same regardless.
I think one or more of them pissed in his chips at some point because he seems to get a hard on whenever they do something wrong.
He's also known to hassle and harass plenty of YF (including myself) constantly on Twitter over the stupidest things.
So while there is no doubt a perception of elitism out there amongst some, anything bobobalde says should be taken with a grain of salt.
There has been some very constructive discussion gone on in this thread, we should keep that up. I'm feeling positive about things moving forward despite the odd mishap.
Surely nobody would dare harass you?
Bloc 5 in Kingz days just raged on regardless. Why not do same?
I think one or more of them pissed in his chips at some point because he seems to get a hard on whenever they do something wrong.
He's also known to hassle and harass plenty of YF (including myself) constantly on Twitter over the stupidest things.
So while there is no doubt a perception of elitism out there amongst some, anything bobobalde says should be taken with a grain of salt.
There has been some very constructive discussion gone on in this thread, we should keep that up. I'm feeling positive about things moving forward despite the odd mishap.
Surely nobody would dare harass you?
I must admit that paragraph made me chuckle as well.
Once people get the hang of things can we try "Stand Up" again?
Soz! Jokes.
And still easily the funniest contributor to the forums. You please me sir!
The Fever are great and I'm not criticising, they were great on Sunday, but like Steve-O I don't understand what the problem of not chanting is. A full zone looks better than a half full one, and the noise will be the same regardless.
I take your point from a purely mathematical standpoint. But personally I'd rather have 20% of those people get loud and the other 80% jog on.
It just doesn't compute for me to come and stand next to people chanting and not chant. It's like standing at the urinal but not pissing. Odd.
Bloc 5 in Kingz days just raged on regardless. Why not do same?
Actually the Bloc had periods of similar drama's when the team wasn't doing well and when people jumped of the bandwagon and some other issues. It's just that with only Stack's website and forums it never really had the size or focal point for discussion and angst.
The Fever are great and I'm not criticising, they were great on Sunday, but like Steve-O I don't understand what the problem of not chanting is. A full zone looks better than a half full one, and the noise will be the same regardless.
I take your point from a purely mathematical standpoint. But personally I'd rather have 20% of those people get loud and the other 80% jog on.
It just doesn't compute for me to come and stand next to people chanting and not chant. It's like standing at the urinal but not pissing. Odd.
Hey! Who are you calling odd?
I just feel awkward when others are watching.
The Fever are great and I'm not criticising, they were great on Sunday, but like Steve-O I don't understand what the problem of not chanting is. A full zone looks better than a half full one, and the noise will be the same regardless.
I guess for me, my ideal is the zone is packed, with people who participant, even if it is just clapping along. When the team is winning (V Victory last year), the zone is great with everyone at a minimum clapping. The zone is mostly crap when we are losing for long periods of time., which has become every increasing more recently.
I guess having a higher percentage of involvement creates an expectation. People who are nervous about making noise might be more likely if they are surrounded by others doing so, than if they were surrounded by people who aren't. If that makes sense?
I'm not quite sure why the zoners want non-chanters to move? If they were taking up spaces of people who do want to chant I'd agree, but the place is hardly packed out is it?
Surely if those people moved, you'd still have the same group chanting, but just more empty seats in the fever zone?
I thought I had outlined my personal view on why I think that pretty clearly? So I am surprised that you can be not sure as to why...
...But in case you missed it, this is a summary of how I see it and why it bugs the crap out of me when people stand in the zone soaking up the atmosphere, but not joining in...
Please note this is only MY opinion...
Kiwi sports fans have a high "get over their own embarrassment" threshold. They are not the same people you find on the terraces of British football grounds. Singing does not come naturally to them. Their embarrassment inertia is high.
So what?
Soooo... if the person next to them is not singing, there is a very high chance they will not join in and sing.
So if you stand there not singing you actually suck the passion out of those around you.
And it is contagious... as the people around you don't sing, the people around them don't sing... and so on.
Passion is contagious.
So is apathy.
That is why I would rather the passengers, who actually don't want to chant, and just want to enjoy the atmosphere, did actually go and sit in Aisle 24 (or any other aisle).
So in response to your last line Steve-O, I disagree.
I don't think you'd ONLY have the same people chanting, with more empty seats in the fever zone.
I think there is a third category of person in the zone, who would stay, and who would chant with the ones who are chanting, if there were not so many people around them NOT chanting. The not chanting creates peer pressure to conform, which results in people who would chant, not chanting.
If you want to read that in context, you can here. I also said it similarly, but slightly differently earlier in this thread, see here.
I would prefer to encourage them to chant rather than saying that I'd rather they went to another aisle though. And to be fair, that does seem to be what we are trying to achieve.
I think some expected too much from the first game, so got frustrated. Understandable given how much effort has gone into all of this during the off season. But am sure it's a lesson learned.
I think most people in the feverzone in Wellington come for the atmosphere and would probably join in with a bit of personal encouragement, and are more likely to do so if those around them are joining in too.
I think it's more frustrating at the home away games where you get a lot of locals come in and sit down (or stand if they HAVE to) with absolutely no intention of joining in. But even that just comes from ignorance, and perhaps poor advertising of what the feverzone actually is.
Bloc 5 in Kingz days just raged on regardless. Why not do same?
Actually the Bloc had periods of similar drama's when the team wasn't doing well and when people jumped of the bandwagon and some other issues. It's just that with only Stack's website and forums it never really had the size or focal point for discussion and angst.
Absolutely this.
It's a very creative rewritting of history to say the Bloc just raged on regardless. There were times when key people were walking up and down the aisles in the Bloc talking to people face to face, asking them what it would take to get them to join in. And angst raged on the mailing list about whether this was the right thing to do or not.
Patrick came over to aisle 23 at the end of last season to gee everyone up. Lots of blank stares in return.
But as soon as we score a goal or start to boss the other side then the volume picks up. I think (as Jerzy has been pointing out all day) that we only sing when we're winning.
Unless of course there are more opportunities to travel in which case the travelling supporters tend to be more vocal come what may.
Next season - 7 games in Wgtn and the rest around Dorkland, Tron, Dunners, Racistchurch, Napier and ... Palmy.
Bloc 5 in Kingz days just raged on regardless. Why not do same?
Actually the Bloc had periods of similar drama's when the team wasn't doing well and when people jumped of the bandwagon and some other issues. It's just that with only Stack's website and forums it never really had the size or focal point for discussion and angst.
Absolutely this.
It's a very creative rewritting of history to say the Bloc just raged on regardless. There were times when key people were walking up and down the aisles in the Bloc talking to people face to face, asking them what it would take to get them to join in. And angst raged on the mailing list about whether this was the right thing to do or not.
I remember putting this idea to you at the BB after the game (probably rather passionately due to alcohol - sorry) that we need to be more proactive about it. Putting flyers up is a good idea, but it's a bit passive and I think it'd be better if we get a few people being more mobile around the zone with flyers for the app, or even song sheets (cringe - I never thought I'd say that) and actively introducing yourselves, getting to know people, teaching them chants and maybe even getting them to start one. I reckon people would love that (and I've asked a few since).
I think it'd do a number of things
a) help break down this perception of elitism
b) teach people chants
c) build confidence in people to start chants or join in on them. It'd also create more pockets where chanting happens, which would further encourage people around them to join in.
d) get people to download the app
e) build the YF community.
f) I dunno...you may even meet the girl of your dreams this way?
It could fail miserably and end up just being awkward for everyone. But it's worth a shot, and if it gets even just a few people more involved then it will have been worth it.
f) I dunno...you may even meet the girl of your dreams this way?
Case of beer on me if you manage to pull a bird using football chants.
I would prefer to encourage them to chant rather than saying that I'd rather they went to another aisle though. And to be fair, that does seem to be what we are trying to achieve.
I think some expected too much from the first game, so got frustrated. Understandable given how much effort has gone into all of this during the off season. But am sure it's a lesson learned.
I think most people in the feverzone in Wellington come for the atmosphere and would probably join in with a bit of personal encouragement, and are more likely to do so if those around them are joining in too.
I think it's more frustrating at the home away games where you get a lot of locals come in and sit down (or stand if they HAVE to) with absolutely no intention of joining in. But even that just comes from ignorance, and perhaps poor advertising of what the feverzone actually is.
Definitely that first bit. I don't think anyone's saying they want everyone to fuck off. I want everyone to join in!
f) I dunno...you may even meet the girl of your dreams this way?
Case of beer on me if you manage to pull a bird using football chants.
I met my missus on our piss trip preseason to Palmerston North, does that count?
f) I dunno...you may even meet the girl of your dreams this way?
Case of beer on me if you manage to pull a bird using football chants.
I score when I want, I score when I waaaaaant.
Join me in the fever zone.
I score when I want
f) I dunno...you may even meet the girl of your dreams this way?
Case of beer on me if you manage to pull a bird using football chants.
I met my missus on our piss trip preseason to Palmerston North, does that count?
Which bird - Nixie or Ernie Clucks?
f) I dunno...you may even meet the girl of your dreams this way?
Case of beer on me if you manage to pull a bird using football chants.
I met my missus on our piss trip preseason to Palmerston North, does that count?
Depends how many chants you taught her.
I think if people are in the feverzone and bothering to stand for 90 minutes then chances are they want to be involved, but just either don't have the confidence to get too involved or aren't quite sure how.
Bloc 5 in Kingz days just raged on regardless. Why not do same?
Actually the Bloc had periods of similar drama's when the team wasn't doing well and when people jumped of the bandwagon and some other issues. It's just that with only Stack's website and forums it never really had the size or focal point for discussion and angst.
Absolutely this.
It's a very creative rewritting of history to say the Bloc just raged on regardless. There were times when key people were walking up and down the aisles in the Bloc talking to people face to face, asking them what it would take to get them to join in. And angst raged on the mailing list about whether this was the right thing to do or not.
I remember putting this idea to you at the BB after the game (probably rather passionately due to alcohol - sorry) that we need to be more proactive about it. Putting flyers up is a good idea, but it's a bit passive and I think it'd be better if we get a few people being more mobile around the zone with flyers for the app, or even song sheets (cringe - I never thought I'd say that) and actively introducing yourselves, getting to know people, teaching them chants and maybe even getting them to start one. I reckon people would love that (and I've asked a few since).
I think it'd do a number of things
a) help break down this perception of elitism
b) teach people chants
c) build confidence in people to start chants or join in on them. It'd also create more pockets where chanting happens, which would further encourage people around them to join in.
d) get people to download the app
e) build the YF community.
f) I dunno...you may even meet the girl of your dreams this way?
It could fail miserably and end up just being awkward for everyone. But it's worth a shot, and if it gets even just a few people more involved then it will have been worth it.
Totally agree.
It's important to remember my response too, which was yes, but it is not an either/or situation. We should do both, or as many of these ideas as possible, in parallel.
You are never sure which method will click for which people, so using multiple methods simultaneously maximises the chances of uptake.
I think if people are in the feverzone and bothering to stand for 90 minutes then chances are they want to be involved, but just either don't have the confidence to get too involved or aren't quite sure how.
Alcohol.
f) I dunno...you may even meet the girl of your dreams this way?
Case of beer on me if you manage to pull a bird using football chants.
Send a case of beer my way, because the way I met my girlfriend was by her seeing me standing and leading chants in the Zone, thought I seemed pretty awesome, so came over and had a chat to me. Boom.
He scores when he wants, he scores when he waaaaants
Pashtrick the cappo
He scores when he wants.
Clearly there's only one answer to this shambles. Capos. Megaphones. And flares. Lots and lots of flares.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who brings people to every game and my season ticket holding friend who I persuaded to get a ticket this season as he wasn't sure whether it was worth dropping the money to come would much rather sit than stand all game. However since I want to be in the zone and take an active part he takes one for the team and stands.
The problem I have is the fact people here/ on twitter/ at the game are saying he doesn't deserve his position in the zone because he doesn't chant all game. The fact is he chants when he can be bothered or if hes in that mood. If the zone was sold out every game then fine I can see the logic of mute/ not chanting/ people who cant be bothered chanting patrons sitting elsewhere but until the zone sells out it makes no sense trying to disencourage people in the zone unless they're the ones complaining about people standing etc.
I dunno. Wouldn't a capo be even more elitist?
I'm sure I'm not the only one who brings people to every game and my season ticket holding friend who I persuaded to get a ticket this season as he wasn't sure whether it was worth dropping the money to come would much rather sit than stand all game. However since I want to be in the zone and take an active part he takes one for the team and stands.
The problem I have is the fact people here/ on twitter/ at the game are saying he doesn't deserve his position in the zone because he doesn't chant all game. The fact is he chants when he can be bothered or if hes in that mood. If the zone was sold out every game then fine I can see the logic of mute/ not chanting/ people who cant be bothered chanting patrons sitting elsewhere but until the zone sells out it makes no sense trying to disencourage people in the zone unless they're the ones complaining about people standing etc.
Jesus wept. I never knew watching footie was so complicated. I just go to rant and rave myself.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who brings people to every game and my season ticket holding friend who I persuaded to get a ticket this season as he wasn't sure whether it was worth dropping the money to come would much rather sit than stand all game. However since I want to be in the zone and take an active part he takes one for the team and stands.
The problem I have is the fact people here/ on twitter/ at the game are saying he doesn't deserve his position in the zone because he doesn't chant all game. The fact is he chants when he can be bothered or if hes in that mood. If the zone was sold out every game then fine I can see the logic of mute/ not chanting/ people who cant be bothered chanting patrons sitting elsewhere but until the zone sells out it makes no sense trying to disencourage people in the zone unless they're the ones complaining about people standing etc.
I think people have repeatedly said that they do not believe that people don't deserve to be in the zone. Smithy made ONE (probably drunken) comment out of frustration and now it's some sort of widely held Yellow Fever opinion despite repeated posts in this thread to the contrary (even by Smithy himself).
I give up.
I dunno. Wouldn't a capo be even more elitist?
Of course. But it's not a democracy, if you want it to work.
Egalitarianism leads to shambles, been proven time and again.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who brings people to every game and my season ticket holding friend who I persuaded to get a ticket this season as he wasn't sure whether it was worth dropping the money to come would much rather sit than stand all game. However since I want to be in the zone and take an active part he takes one for the team and stands.
The problem I have is the fact people here/ on twitter/ at the game are saying he doesn't deserve his position in the zone because he doesn't chant all game. The fact is he chants when he can be bothered or if hes in that mood. If the zone was sold out every game then fine I can see the logic of mute/ not chanting/ people who cant be bothered chanting patrons sitting elsewhere but until the zone sells out it makes no sense trying to disencourage people in the zone unless they're the ones complaining about people standing etc.
I think people have repeatedly said that they do not believe that people don't deserve to be in the zone. Smithy made ONE (probably drunken) comment out of frustration and now it's some sort of widely held Yellow Fever opinion despite repeated posts in this thread to the contrary (even by Smithy himself).
I give up.
To be fair, I said that same thing on Twitter without realising Smithy had said it at the game. However, I also realised how stupid I was being.
Smithy said he'd rather the non-chanters "jog on" and btwfc thinks non-chanters cause others not to chant and would rather they weren't there.
So Tegal, while you may not be saying that, some are.
At the end of the day, I think the club has more issues than who is chanting and why people haven't been memorising song sheets in their free time. If we start winning at home, the chants will come naturally. Forcing the issue hasn't worked up till now, so why would that change?
Contrary to popular belief, fans on the terraces in the UK are not chanting for 90 mins (there are some exceptions), it tends to happen when the team is winning.
Additionally, we don't have away fans to 'battle' against in the chanting stakes, so quite frankly it can all get rather boring at times.
I thought the atmosphere was pretty decent yesterday and you guys that like to chant win, lose, or draw, should definitely continue, but worry less about the people around you and watch the game.
I dunno. Wouldn't a capo be even more elitist?
Of course. But it's not a democracy, if you want it to work.
Egalitarianism leads to shambles, been proven time and again.
Yep though as I said yesterday, given this is the route we have gone down, I don't think we can suddenly switch to capos etc.
It's quite hard for people to accept something else once democracy is the norm.
I think what we therefore need to do is be more active about encouraging more people to get involved.
The result of the way we do things is bit more of a fluctuation in our fever zone 'performance' - when we are good, I think we are better than under a capo...but when we are bad, we are really quite bad. I think we are moving in the right direction to at least flatten that out a bit, and yesterday was a solid start.
Smithy said he'd rather the non-chanters "jog on" and btwfc thinks non-chanters cause others not to chant and would rather they weren't there.
So Tegal, while you may not be saying that, some are.
At the end of the day, I think the club has more issues than who is chanting and why people haven't been memorising song sheets in their free time. If we start winning at home, the chants will come naturally. Forcing the issue hasn't worked up till now, so why would that change?
Contrary to popular belief, fans on the terraces in the UK are not chanting for 90 mins (there are some exceptions), it tends to happen when the team is winning.
Additionally, we don't have away fans to 'battle' against in the chanting stakes, so quite frankly it can all get rather boring at times.
I thought the atmosphere was pretty decent yesterday and you guys that like to chant win, lose, or draw, should definitely continue, but worry less about the people around you and watch the game.
Fair points.
But I think you're picking and choosing your quotes. Both of those guys have since said (perhaps after some reflection) that they would actually rather those people join in rather than jog on. Which is exactly what these new ideas being discussed or implemented is aiming to achieve.
You know if I was at Elland road and some one told me to fuck off if you are not going to chant, I think I would join in. Did this guy?