Marco Rojas - The return of the Kiwi Messi

We don't have the training facilities though.

Roar have an import spot available...

I would have laughed 2 months ago.....but I think it really has come to this.

Unused sub in a 0-1 away win. Das ist nicht gut.

Only vaguely related to Marco, but I recorded Frankfurt v Stuttgart on Sommet and just watched it. Absolutely cracking game, ended 5-4 to Stuttgart! Unfortunately the better Stuttgart do, the worse it probably is for Marco (not going to get relegated and lose a lot of players)

Stuttgart continue to be bad  - slaughtered 4-0 at home by Wolfsburg this morning.

Have conceded eight goals in their last two games. Awful defending in both last two games.

Sit in 15th place on the table, one above the relegation places.

Two wins, three draws, five losses.

Coach Veh must be in danger of sacking after this morning's dire result.

Still ahead of Dortmund at least.

I watched the Bayern v Dortmund match this morning.. The pace and physicality were just so impressive.  Unless Marco can lose his habit of holding the ball too long and learn to play the style of game that the Germans do I think it's going to be very tough for him there. 

It really does put things into perspective when you see how much time on the ball our NZers are used to getting in the A League. I suppose other A League players are playing there so it can be done but I think it requires Marco to play quite differently from what we are used to seeing..

It's interesting that there are Aussies less skillful than Rojas who have managed to  play regularly in the 2.Bundesliga.

I think you've hit the nail on the head Jasper. More physical strength and adapting to the German style are key.

An example is Socceroo Mathew Leckie who never lit up the A-League as Marco did. Leckie, like Marco, also never made it in the 1.Bundesliga and has slipped down to the 2.Bundesliga where he immediately became a regular last season and this season.

I think Leckie is a less skillful midfielder than Marco but more physically robust and seems to fit with what the Germans require in the 2.Bundesliga.

Here is the full list of Aussies playing pro / semi-pro football in Germany. They now have only two players in the 1.Bundesliga after Rukavytsya has moved back to the A-League (I think?) and only two in the 2.Bundesliga.

http://www.ozfootball.net/ark/Abroad/2014-08.html

Kruse	Robbie	05/10/1988	25	Bayer Leverkusen (ECL)	Germany	(1) Bundesliga	Striker	(Injured - Knee)
Langerak	Mitchell	22/08/1988	26	Borussia Dortmund (ECL)	Germany	(1) Bundesliga	Goalkeeper	29/8/14 Unused sub.
Rukavytsya	Nikita	22/06/1987	27	FSV Mainz (Europa)	Germany	(1) Bundesliga	Striker	Loan returned June 2014 (Trials - Maccabi July '14)
Leckie	Mathew	04/02/1991	23	FC Inglostadt	Germany	(2) 2. Bundesliga	Striker	31/8/14 Started
Halloran	Ben	14/06/1992	22	Fortuna Dusseldorf	Germany	(2) 2. Bundesliga	Midfielder	30/8/14 Used sub.
Amini	Mustafa	20/04/1993	21	Borussia Dortmund II	Germany	(3) 3. Bundesliga	Midfielder	30/8/14 Unused sub.
Degenek	Milos	28/04/1994	20	VfB Stuttgart II	Germany	(3) 3. Bundesliga	Midfielder	(Injury - Achilles)
Yeboah	Kwame	02/06/1994	20	Borussia Monchengladbach II	Germany	(4) Reg West	Striker	23/8/14 Unused sub.
Chin	Brandon	14/02/1995	19	FC Hennef 05	Germany	(4) Reg West	Striker	Transferred July 2014
Faerber	Jonathan	15/03/1988	26	TSV 1860 Rosenheim	Germany	(5) Ober Bayern Sud	Goalkeeper	Transferred July 2014
Haubus	Max	08/03/1993	21	SV Rot-WeiB Hadamar	Germany	(5) Ober Hessen	Midfielder	Transferred July 2014
Gibson	Sam	11/11/1988	25	TSV Germania Windeck	Germany	(5) Ober Mittelrhein	Midfielder	Transferred July 2014
Glockner	Carter	16/09/1994	20	1 CFR Pforzheim 1896	Germany	(6) Verbandsliga	Striker	1/6/14 Start, SCORED (Last season)
Stojcevski	James	17/09/1995	19	FC Astoria Walldorf (Yth)	Germany	Junior A	Striker	25/5/14 Unused sub. (Last season)
Hrustic	Ajdin	05/07/1997	17	FC Schalke 04 (Youth)	Germany	Junior A	Midfielder	25/5/14 Used sub. (Last season)

Leckie had quite a good season for Adelaide I think. Marco better than the rest in B2. But also quite a different player. It's a worry if he's got a coach who doesn't particularly like him- I think he needs to be part of a tactical plan as he was at Melbourne. You remember how much he struggled in his first year there.

Leckie impressed at the WC too I thought

Leckie showed just as much as Rojas did in the A-League; maybe more as he didn't have a guy like Archie to play off.

Marco not even on the bench for GF's 3-0 home loss to Karlsruher:

http://int.soccerway.com/matches/2014/11/09/german...

Guess he was already flying out to join the All Whites' camp?

not even on the bench, so depressing

I think the Netherlands or Belgium would be good places for him to move too. Less pressure and more likely to get game time. The Netherlands has worked for Thomas and a number of Australians. 

I think lots would agree that he might be better off in Belgium or the Netherlands at this point. The trouble is, how does he get there from where he is now? 

I would hazard a guess that he would have been able to pick up that kind of deal when he was playing very well in Melbourne, but what are the chances of that happening now, as a benchwarmer in a Bundesliga 2 team? 

I agree. Either he comes back to the A League and re-establishes himself or goes to a lower league in Europe to build himself back up but no club is going to want a guy on loan who is only making the bench. Poor guy. I personally think he left the A League too early for a big league. 

Yep, although in those situations you need to back yourself. Who knows what would have happened if he didn't spend so much time injured.

Correct, and more than a few older heads told him that too.

Hindsight is 20-20 though right, sometimes you've got to take a punt and see what happens. Like Ryan said, it could have all gone differently had he not got that injury right after he moved.

If Marco had played another season and broke his foot in the A-League, everyone would be saying why didn't he move when he had the chance.

He played more A-League games than any of Kruse, Leckie and Langerek, and was coming off a stellar season in the A-League (which he could have followed up with a stinker).

I doubt if coming back to the A-League is the best career move right now (other than lock it in to comfortable mediocrity). A little patience, belief,  and a couple of breaks (of a different variety) is what is required.

Yup. Gotta take the opportunity when it arises. Might never get another one again.

So Marco left less prepared to succeed overseas than Ryan Thomas?

He had experience, was playing well, confident and wanted... it was absolutely the right time to leave... injuries can not be predicted.

I hope he does not return to the A League.

Let's not forget that Marco Rojas was the A-league's MVP. If you look at the guys who have gone overseas and been successful none of them (I believe) ever received that honour. What is more important is that Rojas was MVP in an average Victory team ahead of the likes of Del Piero and Shinji Ono. That is the time to go. Rojas's major weakness is his lack of physical presence and that wasn't going to be developed in the A-League. He went at the right time but things didn't work out.

Rojas may get a Dutch gig if he advertises himself as a more talented Ryan Thomas.

Bollocks he left too early. He really isnt that young. He was what, 22 when he left? 

So he left too early or he didn't?

Whos to say his career in Europe is over? There would be a lot of teams willing to pick up Marco around Europe without a doubt. Unlikely to be top division clubs, but if he starts a bit lower and works himself up again he could still have a very successful and long career. He still young and probably has at least 10 years of football left in him. He's had a stint with one of the top football clubs in the world (in relation to the overall percentage of professional clubs in the world) and it didn't quite work out. It doesn't mean that it's over. Still very much early days. 

If [in saying that] you are implying older heads in this forum.... what the fuck would we know really?

no outside this forum

Reality imo is that 22 is in reality too old, other than in some exceptional circumstances.

They need to be at these big clubs as 12 and 13 year olds

How much did Stuttgart pay victory for the transfer or did he leave on a free? If nothing then surely they will let him go once this crap loan has finished. Holland should definitely be his next stop and he could do worse then a PEC Zwolle.

According to his Wiki page he's played one game for Greuther Fürth reserve team? Its unfortunate he's gone own loan and isn't making the first team, making it a very crap loan deal. Season long loan? I feel like that injury he got when he first went to Stuttgart has been the set back and he's been trying to fight his way back since.  

This may be all true but this whole situation has made me think one of two things:

1) Rojas is not that good. There is no way he could ever cut in one of the physical leagues of Europe

or 2) Rojas is good enough but has failed to apply himself properly for some reason. Maybe it has been hard for him to adjust to life in Germany? 

He's fit at the moment and you would expect a fit Rojas to be in the top team of a 2 Bundesliga side if he really is good enough. For the best player in the A-League to not even be part of a 2 Bundesliga's team plans something has gone seriously wrong.

I think there may be something awry between him and the current Trainer.  Marco's personality is not particularly assertive, and he was a slow starter (in terms of making a real impression) at his previous clubs.

Oh, and he did have an injury this last weekend.  A local paper said he was doubtful because of bruised ribs, so I'm guessing that's why he didn't even make the bench (but, yes, he should be doing better than that).

That's a good point, as gross generalisations and stereotypes Kiwi's are quite different from Germans and there is room for misunderstandings there.

I guess in light of anything concrete, the void fills with speculation.

fixed.

Yes. Thank you :o)

Stuttgart are currently bottom of the bundeslig. They are in free fall and will probably get relegated. Maybe that will be Rojas's chance to play first team football for Stuttgart if they get relegated to Div 2. Because I would imagine they will lose some of their good players if they go down. From what I have seen of Germany football it is very fast and physical and the players are all big athletes....hardly a good fit for a skinny short kiwi.......Rojas has two years of his Stuttgart contract to go...still plenty of time for him to get game time.

This is a myth.

The likes of Lahm, Reus, Goetze, Marin, Littbarski etc etc have thrived in the Bundesliga. Even our good friend Robbie Kruse is no giant and has done OK. I doubt whether size is more of an issue in Germany than say England or any of the other major Euro league.   It is fast though, and can be physical (depending upon trainer/team style), although probably not as physical as the English leagues.