Wellington Phoenix Men

Nix @ CCM, Thursday 7th Feb 9:00pm SkySports 3

677 replies · 27,268 views
about 13 years ago

theprof wrote:

 so Ricki's embarrassed, what the hell are he and the players going to do about it??


Ricki will twiddle his thumbs until his contract runs out.....



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about 13 years ago


Ifill has just tweeted

People in glasshouses should think very carefully before throwing stones

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about 13 years ago

 Time for Herbert to go.

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about 13 years ago


The Teflon Don

                                                                        COYN    

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about 13 years ago

 If people thought last night was painful I suggest they have a look at the game again (2nd half) I did and some of the comments that people have made just don't stack up.

Dump Paston cause he just hoofs the ball up the park. Not true as he played quite a few balls out to defenders or midfield players, and usually when he had the ball most of the defenders turned away, head down and did not want to know.

Lochhead is better than Hogg. He performed far better than Locky would have.

The one that should have done better was Dura. As a captain he should be leading by example. He was nowhere to be seen, and in the second half he just did not want to know. And this from someone that has mentioned wanting to play for the AW's. Don't bother.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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about 13 years ago

Lol at people saying Blokhead wouldve done better than Hogg. And you know this how? It couldve been 4-0, it couldve been 8-0. Blah

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about 13 years ago

Leggy wrote:

 If people thought last night was painful I suggest they have a look at the game again (2nd half) I did and some of the comments that people have made just don't stack up.

Dump Paston cause he just hoofs the ball up the park. Not true as he played quite a few balls out to defenders or midfield players, and usually when he had the ball most of the defenders turned away, head down and did not want to know.

Lochhead is better than Hogg. He performed far better than Locky would have.

The one that should have done better was Dura. As a captain he should be leading by example. He was nowhere to be seen, and in the second half he just did not want to know. And this from someone that has mentioned wanting to play for the AW's. Don't bother.



nice comments leggy

i watched a bit again today as well and i must say that it felt worse than before, but this might be because i was still pretty pissed off

you're right about durante, we was absent and his body language seemed quite philosophical

muscat drove me nuts again and boyd looked just plain awful - in over his head.  but part of that was because he spent most of his time on the pitch working around the edge of his own area trying to compensate for lia's inactivity

360footballnews.com

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about 13 years ago

Jeff Vader wrote:

Smithy wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

I can respect how you arrive at that but lets be honest, our team are playing like shit and continuously repeating the same mistakes. Its only patronising if they are aware of it and trying to fix it and based on performance, I am not so sure they are.


Yep, fair enough. Sorry, knee jerk post from me.

I know Louis pretty well, and he's not a stupid footballer, so if he's holding the ball and running at a defender trying to commit him before releasing a pass I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt that it is on purpose and not because he is clueless. He is the opposite of clueless, he's actually a pretty smart player. Does remind me of Marco (who I also know pretty well) and I reckon could be better given time and the right environment.
I saw him last year and he was outstanding. I think he has got the smarts because he has had a reasonable season but he is also up against smarter players. Zwaanswijk has been doing this for years and its would the cold light of day before he getting turned tits up by a kid. This is where those things he got away with at lower levels and worked, will not work against experience pros. Thats where you need to have 2 tricks and at the moment, he needs to develop that passing side of his game because he is a ball at feet type player. Its a time/experience thing for him so I'm not tossing the baby out with the bathwater in my grand statement above.


just out of interest, i've heard we don't do video analysis

just what i've heard, may be wrong

360footballnews.com

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about 13 years ago

Have to agree with Leggy! Paston not as bad as people making out .Made a couple of outstanding saves. Hogg did best he could under difficut circumstances i.e. underperforming midfield and lazy strikers allowing CCM to attack in numbers. Hard to defend all atacking personnel. . Anyone who knows anything about football or watched the CCM game more than once knows that we neeed to learn how to defend from the front.Over the course of the season  It appears a number of senior players , including Lochhead, Ifill and co have got comfortable with their position at the club and work rate is poor. Many players on long term contracts are sitting on these and going through the motions . Boyd , Fenton,  Hogg and to a lesser degree Brockie, are the future of this club and need to be given time to adjust to the professional environment .They appear keen and give 100 percent . I am sure given time , they will prove many of you  wrong and become good players. It is more the established players,  and somewhat favourites of some of you on this forum,  who are lettiing  the team and Ricki down. Gentleman, you  need to watch the game more than once like Leggy in order to  analyse what is happening and to be able to make  an informed and unemotive comment . It appears some comments in regard to goals conceeded are blamed on the nearest person rather than analysing what caused the  problem Defence were under the KOSH all game as defence from strikers and through midfield was non existent causing numbers to pour through .Goals will always be conceeded when this happens .We Cant let players of that quality get forward in such munbers !!

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about 13 years ago

The Thinker wrote:
outstanding post. Hope you clowns read it

These are my thoughts on the Nix vs CCM with some reflection on where we are at as a whole. For mine it’s all about our lack of ability to play any kind of constructive football (not ground breaking I know). I certainly don’t think this is anything new and have been on the record as saying we have always played atrocious football, i.e. hump it forward ASAP and hope for break downs, or get it wide and cross. The difference being that league used to be such that we could get results playing that football. As we all know it has moved on.

Last night we started counting passes at the 60 minute mark to see how many we got, amazingly we never got past 3 in a row and then gave up after around 10 minutes. The pattern which repeated time and time again was CCM would attack with numbers, we would win it back (sometimes), CCM then put us under a high press, we either get caught in possession or more likely we panic (assumption) and hoof it long, usually to their full backs and they get to set up again at halfway (as that’s where we press from) and start again with attack. Below I will attach some stats (from the Leopold method) around our failure to complete passes as compared to all A-League teams and secondly our even more startling failure to secure possession when playing out from the back from round 18 (either long or short). Potentially the Nix are working on the theory that if they are being pressed then there will be spaces behind to exploit with long balls. However CCM and a lot of other teams are just far too sophisticated for what is essentially a “club” level tactic, and even at that level this type of tactic is dying out.

I feel as though the responsibility sits with both the coach and the players. From a coaching perspective, clearly they are encouraged to get the ball forward as quickly as possible which is at a cost of any possession based plan, also other aspects around systems and pressing etc are failing miserably. Further to that though and in fairness to the coach I very much doubt his instructions are ‘every time we get the ball panic and hoof it as long and as far as you can to the opposition fullbacks’ which is what happens over and over again.

We are woefully short of the mark in our ability to play “football’ and by that I mean a modern passing based game. Not purely passing, just passing based. And this leads to us being being out played 99 times out of a hundred and coming under huge amounts of pressure. We get into these defensive discussions after the big losses but realistically its like a training run for CCM because they just get to attack and attack again due to us repeatedly gifting the ball back to them. The Sydney game was different but I actually believe bar Manny Muscat who was beaten/out of position for several of the CCM goals our defenders did OK for the sheer amount of pressure they were put under.

Routes to failure:

1.  High pressure by opposition (out coached)

2.  Lack of willingness, faith and ability to pass the ball (Players)

a.  Short to feet

b.  Long to a team mate.

3.  Out thought by opposition in terms of regaining possession. (out coached)

4.  Lack of coordinated pressing approach (out coached)

5.  Opposition begins attack with numbers on and around the halfway line. (by product)

 

In terms of recent discussion around approach, for me I actually preferred watching us trying our new “total football” approach over our recently reverted to “pragmatic” approach because I have been at my wits end with the tactics we have always played to for less and less result and felt at least there was some potential and entertainment value in the new approach namely the brilliant Game entertainment wise vs. heart (3-2) win.

 

CCM Playing out - Green complete Red incomplete - consistantly retain possesion

 

 

Nix Playing out - Green complete Red incomplete - Consistantly give away possesion

 

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about 13 years ago

Hard News wrote:

 My problem is that there were at least 8 players out there worse than him but without Lochy, he's next on the designated scapegoat list.

Only because they haven't got Tim Brown to pick on. 
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about 13 years ago

Leggy wrote:

Lochhead is better than Hogg. He performed far better than Locky would have.


Is "He" the new Chinese player?
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about 13 years ago

Royal wrote:

Leggy wrote:

Lochhead is better than Hogg. He performed far better than Locky would have.


Is "He" the new Chinese player?
That is a terrible joke.

Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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about 13 years ago

patrick478 wrote:

Royal wrote:

Leggy wrote:

Lochhead is better than Hogg. He performed far better than Locky would have.


Is "He" the new Chinese player?
That is a terrible joke.
Who's he talking about then? Is Lochhead better than Hogg or is Hogg better than Lochhead? Can't have both
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about 13 years ago

Royal wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

Royal wrote:

Leggy wrote:

Lochhead is better than Hogg. He performed far better than Locky would have.


Is "He" the new Chinese player?
That is a terrible joke.
Who's he talking about then? Is Lochhead better than Hogg or is Hogg better than Lochhead? Can't have both
It's quite obvious that the 'he' is Hogg.

Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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about 13 years ago

mjp2 wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

Smithy wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

I can respect how you arrive at that but lets be honest, our team are playing like shit and continuously repeating the same mistakes. Its only patronising if they are aware of it and trying to fix it and based on performance, I am not so sure they are.


Yep, fair enough. Sorry, knee jerk post from me.

I know Louis pretty well, and he's not a stupid footballer, so if he's holding the ball and running at a defender trying to commit him before releasing a pass I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt that it is on purpose and not because he is clueless. He is the opposite of clueless, he's actually a pretty smart player. Does remind me of Marco (who I also know pretty well) and I reckon could be better given time and the right environment.
I saw him last year and he was outstanding. I think he has got the smarts because he has had a reasonable season but he is also up against smarter players. Zwaanswijk has been doing this for years and its would the cold light of day before he getting turned tits up by a kid. This is where those things he got away with at lower levels and worked, will not work against experience pros. Thats where you need to have 2 tricks and at the moment, he needs to develop that passing side of his game because he is a ball at feet type player. Its a time/experience thing for him so I'm not tossing the baby out with the bathwater in my grand statement above.


The key point I took from JVs post was asking what the coaching team are doing when players do not *seem* to be working on areas that any fat arse in the stand with a footy brain can see would be worth working on.

Also no assumption re, or patronising criticism of fat arses intended.  But definately questions about coaching.
Mediumly built :o)

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 13 years ago

tonya wrote:


Ifill has just tweeted

People in glasshouses should think very carefully before throwing stones


WTF is he on about?

Footballers who get paid plenty should play better. That'd be my response to that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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about 13 years ago

We have no idea what it is directed at so cool your heals and keep your powder dry

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 13 years ago

reg22 wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

Smithy wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

I can respect how you arrive at that but lets be honest, our team are playing like shit and continuously repeating the same mistakes. Its only patronising if they are aware of it and trying to fix it and based on performance, I am not so sure they are.


Yep, fair enough. Sorry, knee jerk post from me.

I know Louis pretty well, and he's not a stupid footballer, so if he's holding the ball and running at a defender trying to commit him before releasing a pass I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt that it is on purpose and not because he is clueless. He is the opposite of clueless, he's actually a pretty smart player. Does remind me of Marco (who I also know pretty well) and I reckon could be better given time and the right environment.
I saw him last year and he was outstanding. I think he has got the smarts because he has had a reasonable season but he is also up against smarter players. Zwaanswijk has been doing this for years and its would the cold light of day before he getting turned tits up by a kid. This is where those things he got away with at lower levels and worked, will not work against experience pros. Thats where you need to have 2 tricks and at the moment, he needs to develop that passing side of his game because he is a ball at feet type player. Its a time/experience thing for him so I'm not tossing the baby out with the bathwater in my grand statement above.


just out of interest, i've heard we don't do video analysis

just what i've heard, may be wrong


It doesn't look like we do ANY analysis because we send the same type of team out every week and play the same way, every week!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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about 13 years ago

Jeff Vader wrote:

We have no idea what it is directed at so cool your heals and keep your powder dry


I prefer to fly off the handle in times of crisis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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about 13 years ago

patrick478 wrote:

Royal wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

Royal wrote:

Leggy wrote:

Lochhead is better than Hogg. He performed far better than Locky would have.


Is "He" the new Chinese player?
That is a terrible joke.
Who's he talking about then? Is Lochhead better than Hogg or is Hogg better than Lochhead? Can't have both
It's quite obvious that the 'he' is Hogg.
Then Lochhead is better than Hogg but Hogg performed better than Lochhead. I get it now
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about 13 years ago

Pancakes.


That is all.


I once stayed at a hotel that had a pancake machine. You press a button, and a few minutes later 2 pancakes came out.

It was brilliant (except if you're a breakfast chef).

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about 13 years ago

Bevan wrote:

Pancakes.


That is all.


I once stayed at a hotel that had a pancake machine. You press a button, and a few minutes later 2 pancakes came out.

It was brilliant (except if you're a breakfast chef).

What hotel?

Founder

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about 13 years ago

travelodge on lambton quay has one i think. either that or a waffle machine

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about 13 years ago

Anyone remember that pancake restaurant franchise (Pancake Palace??) that served only.....pancakes?


"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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about 13 years ago

Steve-O wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

We have no idea what it is directed at so cool your heals and keep your powder dry


I prefer to fly off the handle in times of crisis.


"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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about 13 years ago

Junior82 wrote:

Anyone remember that pancake restaurant franchise (Pancake Palace??) that served only.....pancakes?


Your showing your age now!

  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

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about 13 years ago

IHOP for the win.


Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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about 13 years ago

Feverish wrote:

Bevan wrote:

Pancakes.


That is all.


I once stayed at a hotel that had a pancake machine. You press a button, and a few minutes later 2 pancakes came out.

It was brilliant (except if you're a breakfast chef).

What hotel?



They have one at the Grand Chateau Tongoriro. Kind of shit though as it takes a long time, everyone wants one so there is a bit of a queue, and they aren't that great.
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about 13 years ago

travelodge on lambton quay has one i think. either that or a waffle machine

 

Phoenix have a waffle machine as well - Ricky Herbert

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about 13 years ago

Junior82 wrote:

Anyone remember that pancake restaurant franchise (Pancake Palace??) that served only.....pancakes?


was that  next to or close to the evening post?
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about 13 years ago

Now you're showing your age!

I can't remember where in Wgtn it was.  We went once.  I think it was one of those ventures that sounded like a good venture right up until it became operational.


"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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about 13 years ago

They still have a Pancake Place in Adelaide of all places, eaten there a couple of times!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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