Huawei Wellington United Phoenix Academy Football School of Excellence - WeeNix

2392 replies · 511,329 views

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

SC03 wrote:

At one point the idea of basing a youth team in Canberra was mooted, before AIS got a team. Bluetragic would be horrified but what chance a youth team based somewhere in Australia with a combination of NZ and Australian players? Would need to be affiliated with some sort of academy I guess, besides AIS is there anything else to link with?

Canberra United are fielding a team in the Australian NYL next season. Perhaps we could affiliate with them? Give us the benefits of a reserve squad, and give them access to A-League players to help give the team a bit more appeal and strengthen their bid for an A-League team.

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

The NZFC has a youth league...

We need a youth team playing weekly...

If we cant play in the nzfc general and cannot play in the a-league... then why not play in the youth league of the team we cannot play in...

just an idea

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

why don't the phoenix make a youth league themselves with some ten year olds

just an idealaylay2010-02-18 19:35:43

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

maynard.

Because the NYL in NZ only has limited rounds (TeeDubs will play 5 games if they get to the final) and have no facility for over age players, which is key for the Phoenix as getting reserve players game time is a requirement.

How's my driving? - Whine here

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Can I just say that one of the main reasons that I am not motivated to go to ACFC games is looking at the pit of negativity and impenetrable injokes that is the ACFC forums, as opposed to the all round good vibes of this place. Even the new Northern League forum is more fun than that Wombato fellow going off on his weird Dr Who riffs (and Bluemagic complaining about how butthurt those nasty YF people make him...)

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Doloras wrote:

Jaysus.... Id have personally stuck with "the dog ate my season pass" , or some such other pathetic excuse , or go for the truth ..."my caregiver was sick , and crossing streets on my own is really scary"

lots of good vibes too you though , and be careful in traffic the world needs more determined and clever people like you..*

* and ted said I couldnt even appear pleasant...!

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Wow, uncLOLz, your friendly and welcoming attitude has totally changed my outlook and I will certainly buy you a beer at Kiwitea St on Sunday.

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Doloras wrote:

Oh I get it. You don't bother with the NZFC because of the forums. How about the football itself or doesn't that count in YF land? Game, set and match I think.

I'm betting the Caketin will be nearly sold out for Perth, and TW will be down to four men and a dog at its next home game. I can hear the sucking noise from here.

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I think the point being made Bluemagic is that you come across as a prick, which you do most of the time, and so if someone (esp a Nix fan) was thinking of coming to an Auckland City game then the thought of you being there would almost certainly put them off.

You have to conceed you're not exactly welcoming.

If I was Buffon, for example, I wouldn't both going back at any stage now after you singled him out for mockery earlier.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Bluemagic wrote:

Doloras wrote:

ï¿½

ï¿½Oh I get it. You don't bother with the NZFC because of the forums. How about the football itself or doesn't that count in YF land? Game, set and match I think.

ï¿½

I'm betting the Caketin will be nearly sold out for Perth, and TW will be down to four men and a dog at its next home game. I can hear the sucking noise from here.

Blue Magic because I want to prove you wrong, I'm taking 5 people to Team Wellington.

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Feverish wrote:

For your information I dont think the NZFC is crap. I was just saying if it is percieved as crap (which you were partially saying to try and get your 'point' across) then its not the Nixs fault.

Your exact words were "it is not the Phoenix's fault if the NZFC is crap". That is not the same as what you're suggesting above. If you'd said "perceived as crap" that would have been okay.

Thank you for backpeddling and saying the NZFC isn't crap in your opinion. I think it's bloody good to watch and thoroughly enjoy it.

I disagree with you that the success of the Phoenix isn't impacting on the NZFC. It is and it's negative, by comparison. Football supporters, like most audiences now, are a fickle lot and they're drawn to what's heavily hyped and deemed successful. I work in the film industry and I can tell you one of the facts of life if you don't put out your small film, no matter how good it is, when a blockbuster like Avatar is sucking up all the boxoffice oxygen. You're only going to get the film buffs. That's what is happening to the NZFC.

By the way: no-one has mentioned TW beating the eager to impress Phoenix reserves 3-0 recently. Must have slipped your mind HN. To forstall the predicted replies - of course the Phoenix players weren't trying, none of them wants to be in Ricky's first 11.

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Blue magic,in the film industry,the people have an option to see one or the other,and they usually only have a budget to see one. In the NZFC scenario,a crowd in the waikato are not going to be influenced by a game being played in wellington,I really do not see how you can say with real conviction that a game in wellington is lowering crowds in other parts of the country. Its ridiculous in fact.

You may as well blame the english premier league for being on tv,despite being played in England by that flawed logic. As ive said,come back with evidence,and a better attitude and you may be taken more seriously.

Until then,i suggest you are doing the NZFC more harm than good,by giving off a very negative perception that all NZFC supporters (Auckland in particular) are like this. Youve already turned 2 people away,and there is clear evidence of that. That is 2 more people than you can prove the nix have turned away from the NZFC

Number of fans proven to be turned away by:

Bluemagic/uncloz 2

Phoenix 0

Tegal2010-02-19 12:21:54

Allegedly

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Smithy wrote:

You have to conceed you're not exactly welcoming.

If I was Buffon, for example, I wouldn't both going back at any stage now after you singled him out for mockery earlier.

Ohhh Smithy. I admit I'm arguing from an unpopular position on this forum but I've never been one for running with the pack. As for being "a prick", no-one is more welcoming of genuine football supporters of all persuasions at Kiwitea Street than me. I'd be happy to discuss this with you over a beer at the club house. I'm actually a softie, ask Nola.

As for Syd, he's most welcome back. We don't hold the divorce against him. I just thought his anonymous digs at me and City deserved an honest response.

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Bluemagic wrote:

......I disagree with you that the success of the Phoenix isn't impacting on the NZFC. It is.......

Prove it.

Nothing you have said in any of your posts can conclusively back that statement up. It's your, very subjective, opinion.

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Bluemagic wrote:

Feverish wrote:

For your information I dont think the NZFC is crap. I was just saying if it is percieved as crap (which you were partially saying to try and get your 'point' across) then its not the Nixs fault.

Your exact words were "it is not the Phoenix's fault if the NZFC is crap". That is not the same as what you're suggesting above. If you'd said "perceived as crap" that would have been okay.

Thank you for backpeddling and saying the NZFC isn't crap in your opinion. I think it's bloody good to watch and thoroughly enjoy it.

i said 'if' not 'that' - as it is a matter of perception. It is not my personal opinion.

Sorry to hear you don't get to work on the big films. Go see Avatar some time - I hear it's quite good.

Founder

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Bluemagic wrote:

Oh I get it. You don't bother with the NZFC because of the forums. How about the football itself or doesn't that count in YF land?

No, to be precise, I haven't been to ACFC games in a couple of years because I am usually playing football myself on a Sunday afternoon. But your attitude - or your joy in "outing" the real name of posters who piss you off - doesn't help. Perceptions of fan culture count for a lot, and it seems - and I may be mistaken - that there are a lot of mean-spirited bitter people in ACFC fandom, as opposed to the chuckle-headed but well-meaning funsters about town who support the Nix.

Doloras2010-02-19 12:47:40

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Bluemagic wrote:

..........By the way: no-one has mentioned TW beating the eager to impress Phoenix reserves 3-0 recently. Must have slipped your mind HN. To forstall the predicted replies - of course the Phoenix players weren't trying, none of them wants to be in Ricky's first 11.

Relevance? To anything?

You start off with a stab at presenting your, somewhat flawed, argument but then blow it at the end, again.

Maybe you should spend more time trying to actually get some hard facts to back up your arguments, and less on being a sterotypical member of the ACFC "let's log into the YF forum and get some digs in about the Phoenix" knitting circle.

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Bluemagic wrote:

As for Syd, he's most welcome back. We don't hold the divorce against him. I just thought his anonymous digs at me and City deserved an honest response.

???

Three for me, and two for them.

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Jag wrote:

Bluemagic wrote:

Relevance? To anything?

You start off with a stab at presenting your, somewhat flawed, argument but then blow it at the end, again.

Relevance? I just thought I'd mention it because in a previous thread a number of forum members took great delight in informing me about the Phoenix reserves once stuffing Waitakere United 7-0 and how that proved the NZFC was crap.

I'm told Auckland City offered an end of season game to the Phoenix and Ricky turned it down, perhaps because he could see a potential banana skin.

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Doloras wrote:

Bluemagic wrote:

Oh I get it. You don't bother with the NZFC because of the forums. How about the football itself or doesn't that count in YF land?

"Chuckle-headed" - you didn't mean knuckle-headed by any chance did you? Only asking?

Actually the supporters of City are actually a fun lot, far from being mean spirited and bitter. Please don't judge them by me, I'm an old NZ footy warhorse.

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Bluemagic wrote:

I'm told Auckland City offered an end of season game to the Phoenix and Ricky turned it down, perhaps because he could see a potential banana skin.

Fair enough, still not relevant to your argument but I'll buy the revenge angle!

Jag2010-02-19 17:05:03

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Jag wrote:

Bluemagic wrote:

......I disagree with you that the success of the Phoenix isn't impacting on the NZFC. It is.......

Prove it.

Nothing you have said in any of your posts can conclusively back that statement up. It's your, very subjective, opinion.

No-one can conclusively back up any argument on this matter. All I can go on is that the NZFC is falling away while interest in the Phoenix is soaring. Over 19,000 in CHCH for a game between two Australian teams and Canterbury United are down to a few hundred supporters.

When the old national league was on its own 20 years ago it attracted a lot more attention. My personal opinion is all this fixation on a NZ-based team in the Australian league over the last decade has drawn too much attention away from the local league. You can only go by crowd figures and media interest as any sort of evidence.

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Keep in mind, Bluemagic, that the team that lost to TW had several triallists while other players played in foreign positions all over the park. Diego was a striker. Winning only 3-0 against that type of line-up surely has to be a TW loss?

And yeah, the Phoenix spanked Waitakere but that didn't prove the NZFC sucks. Phoenix are obviously better but many of us still enjoy both competitions.

I'd love to see Auckland City FC vs Wellington Phoenix FC. Maybe a three match series with one game at home for each team and then at a neutral venue for the last game (Christchurch). I figure Ricki Herbert didn't want to rain on your parade after coming 5th in the Club World Cup. "We'll let 'em bask in it for now", he probably said to the other Phoenix staff.
loyalgunner2010-02-19 17:58:17

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Its obvious for your concern about the NZFC but apart from blaming the nix for the poor crowds what else have you suggested? I've read a lot of posts and you don't offer much apart from a negative attitude.

I'm sure the poor crowds probably come down to poor marketing from/of the teams and the league as a whole, competition from other sports and entertainment events in each of the centres, the perception that the NZFC is not that good than the Nix being around.

But this maybe a seperate discussion in a seperate thread.

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Christo wrote:

It is a separate discussion. But for the record I have critized NZ Football's lack of promotion of the NZFC, the print media's lowly coverage and TVs complete lack of interest, except for little

Triangle and the O League coverage.

Your second paragraph sums it all up really.

I'm reminded of the old warning about the ANZACs - 'how you going to keep them down on the farm, now that they've seen Paris?".

PS - back on topic, I did speak to someone who was at the meeting where a Nix reserve team in the NZFC was discussed and they said it was a non-flyer.

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I've read this thread with interest and probably share the concern of most that NZ homegrown talent has got to have a path to a professional side and shouldn't have to head overseas to achieve that aim.

Provided WP has the funds for a reserve team and to try to walk thru the minefields of amateur / professional / O league / A league - consider the following;

A completely separate team entity is established in the NZFC - say, call it Team Phoenix.

The team is mainly composed of players 'loaned' from Wellington Phoenix (seems to happen in the A league without repercussions)

Any issues with regard to pay is accommodated by players not receiving pay, but monies are put in the relevant player's trust fund (which seems to be the way that the US handles amateur status).

Hopefully the above two contingencies would allow for youngsters coming thru, injured players needing gametime and Phoenix players being rested.

Just thought I would throw the above into the discussion

Comments?

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Bluetragic you are being totally illogical. On one hand 19k in Chch and a large crowd tomorrow is sucking life out of the NZFC, on the other hand you have said that previously TW got up to 1,000. 1,000...which means that the vast majority of people wouldn't watch the NZFC regardless of whether the Phoenix existed or not.

Why do you keep arguing when you've already defeated your own argument?

You've also said nothing about an alternative scenario/vision. Would love to know how you think the NZFC would suddenly become interesting to people or drive growth in NZ football if there was no Phoenix...do you have your vision or is whinge and drag other people down to your level of mediocrity all you can do?

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Wellington Phoenix has increased my interest in Wellington football which has resulted in me going to Wellington NZFC matches that I doubt I would have bothered with otherwise.

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Colvinator wrote:

Wellington Phoenix has increased my interest in Wellington football which has resulted in me going to Wellington NZFC matches that I doubt I would have bothered with otherwise.

That is fair comment. I used to drive past any game that was going, hop out the car and watch.
All the people in this thread have the best at heart for NZ football.
I don't think anyone blames the Nix for poor attendances for other fixtures etc. but what are the boys down at Soccer NZ doing to help the game along.
Probably the same as 20 years ago-not much?

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Colvinator wrote:

Wellington Phoenix has increased my interest in Wellington football which has resulted in me going to Wellington NZFC matches that I doubt I would have bothered with otherwise.

I am this post as well. Nix has made both myself and fiancee interested in TW games and have attended quite a few.

Central Hawkes Bay Nix
and tragic follower of Charlton Athletic

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I agree. Seeing the passion at the ring of fire has lead me to go along to the TW games and even went to the so called Nix reserves game v TW. Not for the spectical but other reasons. Anyway it was hardly a full reserves pro league with a lot of younger ones filling in for the nix.

Blue magic is just an auckland arse with something so stuck up there so far it is affecting his mental capacity. He comes from a position that if it not in auckland its crap. The fact that the Nix have done it and are still doing it has annoyed him. Oh well time to get over yourself BM.

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Don't know if the youth plays curtain raisers to the main game but I would love to see that - although probably first and foremost we should be treated like all of the clubs and be eligible for A league youth team, I would prefer to have it against an NZFC team so I can see more of the talent in NZ

I know I could go toTW games and do that and have been to many particularly in the first couple of years but it does challenge me (like most others I am sure) for making that much time free.

I heard some good REAL reasons that may prevent us getting into NZFC but throught the wiseness of this thread seem to have good ways to resolve them

Seems to me the only real stumbling block is the ego's of a few now that are concerned their power and influence will be eroded - sadly, they seem to have a voice at the tables of NZ soccer and are the reasons the game is not progressing as well as it could in this country - held back by self interest.

Should we partition the NZS to get a statement from them on why not - hold them to account. now is the time to do it right as there is so much good noise about the game that can be used to advantage.

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

mikecj wrote:

Colvinator wrote:

Wellington Phoenix has increased my interest in Wellington football which has resulted in me going to Wellington NZFC matches that I doubt I would have bothered with otherwise.

I am this post as well. Nix has made both myself and fiancee interested in TW games and have attended quite a few.

I'm pleased to hear it.

But where are all these alleged new NZFC fans encouraged by the success of the Nix to go watch the local league? I'm sorry, attendances at NZFC games have dropped off alarmingly and TW is one of the biggest victims. If there was increasing enthusiasm for NZFC games because of what's going on in the A League then I'd be happy indeed. Instead most teams are getting a couple of hundred at best, and this is meant to be our national league.

Last weekend's Auckland City vs Canterbury United match was a cracker. Aaron Clapham had a stand-out game and should be in the Phoenix. But even our Kiwitea St crowd was well down. Both coaches said the game deserved more interest. In the heyday of the old national league top Auckland club Mt Wellington against Christchurch United would have attracted three or four times more spectators.

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Yeah attendances need to be up. See the thread for ideas on how to do so (I see you're to busy complaining about the phoenix to notice that).

Perhaps the phoenix can promote TW games during their home games at the stadium? Advertising to 24k people would be priceless,and am sure itll increase attendance at TW games somewhat.

Still disagree that the phoenix is in any way the reason for a declining crowd across the whole country.

Allegedly

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

phoenix rising wrote:

Provided WP has the funds for a reserve team and to try to walk thru the minefields of amateur / professional / O league / A league - consider the following;

A completely separate team entity is established in the NZFC - say, call it Team Phoenix.

The team is mainly composed of players 'loaned' from Wellington Phoenix (seems to happen in the A league without repercussions)

Any issues with regard to pay is accommodated by players not receiving pay, but monies are put in the relevant player's trust fund (which seems to be the way that the US handles amateur status).

Hopefully the above two contingencies would allow for youngsters coming thru, injured players needing gametime and Phoenix players being rested.

Just thought I would throw the above into the discussion

Comments?

An interesting idea, but I don't see it flying. I just don't see a Phoenix reserve/youth team being allowed to play in the NZFC, however disguised, for all the reasons that have been gone over in this thread.

Either the Nix have a youth/reserve team in the A League, as they should, or they don't have one. In which case there isn't a pathway, except for a few lucky All Whites, for NZ players into the professional A League via the Phoenix.

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Via the NZFC? It does get watched you know,and we are constantly includign them in trial games and trainings. having the phoenix is more good than harm surely,the NZFC is being looked at more closely than by any aussie A league club now.

But yeah best case scenario is most definetly a youth side in the australian competition. Hopefully the cash we've earned the FFA in the playoffs can help push our case for this. Itll help pay the bills for it anyway.

Allegedly

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Tegal wrote:

Yeah attendances need to be up. See the thread for ideas on how to do so (I see you're to busy complaining about the phoenix to notice that).

Perhaps the phoenix can promote TW games during their home games at the stadium? Advertising to 24k people would be priceless,and am sure itll increase attendance at TW games somewhat.

Still disagree that the phoenix is in any way the reason for a declining crowd across the whole country.

I'd have thought TW would have been handing out flyers at the ground.

I'm trying to argue things from another angle, however unpopular. Sure the NZFC needs to lift its game in terms of promotion, but I'm trying to understand what's going on here. I genuinely fear for the survival of the NZFC while seeing the Phoenix penned in by arbitary FFA/AFC rules preventing NZ players coming through the ranks.

I feel a bit like a financial pudit warning of a credit bubble during a house price boom.

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Bluemagic wrote:

Tegal wrote:

Yeah attendances need to be up. See the thread for ideas on how to do so (I see you're to busy complaining about the phoenix to notice that).

ï¿½

Perhaps the phoenix can promote TW games during their home games at the stadium? Advertising to 24k people would be priceless,and am sure itll increase attendance at TW games somewhat.

ï¿½

Still disagree that the phoenix is in any way the reason for a declining crowd across the whole country.

ï¿½

I'd have thought TW would have been handing out flyers at the ground.

ï¿½

I'm trying toï¿½argue things from another angle, however unpopular. Sure the NZFC needs to lift its game in terms of promotion, but I'm trying to understand what's going on here. I genuinely fear for the survival of the NZFC while seeing the Phoenix penned in by arbitary FFA/AFC rules preventing NZ players coming through the ranks.

ï¿½

I feel a bit like a financial pudit warning of a credit bubble during a house price boom.

You are the modern day Nostradamus.

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I'll go out on a limb here seeing as you sound like you're in "reasonable" mode rather than "poke-sticks-and-run" mode.

It's actually quite good having someone argue the counter argument here, because it keeps us on our toes. It's easy to get swept along with the WPX without thinking about it.

I don't think the WPX has had a negative impact on the NZFC, but the question for me is how can we use the profile generated by the WPX to spin into support for the NZFC. How can we (in Wellington) get crowds along to Team Wellington. Just 1% of last Sunday's crowd would be a record TW crowd for this season! How do we get them there?

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

about 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Tegal wrote:

Why doesn't Terry withhold the play-off cash from the FFA until they provide a level playing field and allow a Phoenix youth team in the A League? Your upcoming bumper crowd income against Newcastle alone would probably pay for a youth team's costs.

Aaron Clapham says would I'm sure love to play for the Phoenix but where would you put him? Instead he's going to the Victorian state league hoping to get noticed by other A League clubs.