Huawei Wellington United Phoenix Academy Football School of Excellence - WeeNix
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Dave - I'm not ignoring what you say I just disagree on the basic reason for the NZFC being amateur[/quote]
Ugh... this is such a mess, the shunts in Asia tell us to get out but FFA want us to stay, but wont give us a youth team, NZF dont want the Nix...
What happens if Phoenix Youth win the NZFC? Nix Youth in the O-league? Players playing in a professional Asian competition one week could be playing in an Amateur Oceania the next. Or better yet Nix vs. Nix Youth at world club cup...
Ugh... this is such a mess, the shunts in Asia tell us to get out but FFA want us to stay, but wont give us a youth team, NZF dont want the Nix...
What happens if Phoenix Youth win the NZFC? Nix Youth in the O-league? Players playing in a professional Asian competition one week could be playing in an Amateur Oceania the next. Or better yet Nix vs. Nix Youth at world club cup...
Sorry, just got a little caught up in angst for a second there
1) allow the Nix to field a Youth team in the A-League
2) Make kiwi's the same as Aussie players, that way also OZ clubs can pick up young kiwi talent without having to use an import slot.
In the end, let's face it, how many professional kiwi players are going to "flood" the Aussie market? Not too many!
of course I know that both solutions are likely to be never applied, but just think about it...
I see an easy solution. Actually I see two.
Sadly 2) isn't an easy solution - in the early days of the A-League this was the case, but on joining the AFC this had to be done away with.
My question is why won't the FFA allow a Phoenix youth/reserve team in the A League and why can't the Phoenix play in the lucrative Asian competition if they qualify? Aren't the Australians having it both ways and Terry is paying for it? [/quote]
If " Terry " was happy to sign up for the deal he got , he deserves all he gets , why have his puppets whine on about "lack of support in NZ for a Pnix Yoof team"
Because he AGREED to it , muppets....
Iam SOOOO ...hoping you guys win the league , the outpouring of bile and crocodile tears will be PHENOMENAL !!!!
Originally posted by Bluemagic
Its you who are bleating for a Youth team is it not ??
By the way, are you drunk at all?
NO.. and your excuse ?
2, When the Phoenix joined, the league had only 8 sides, now there are 10, more games played, a different finals system. There is now a national youth league and the W-Leaue womens leaguee. The participation agreement is a document that changes on circumstances every year. To ask for a change to allow a youth side isn't bleating, it's part of the discussion on how the club participates in the League and how the league operates.
3, Why does that impact the concept of a Phoenix side in the NZFC anyway ?
1, When the Phoenix joined the league there was no national youth league, so there was no contract stating it anyway.
It doesnt , it could be more relevant on a Pnix side in its Proper League...
Phoenix Reserves
Sadly we have lost Costa becuase they do not get enough game time if they are not in the starting 11. The lack of a reserve team competitition (I prefer this to the youth team) limits our players who are returnig from injury and need game time to get match fit, or those not in the starting 11 getting good game time to keep them sharp and allow the coaching team to have a good look at their progress (and us suporters get look at potential candidates).
Seemed we were close last time in getting a reserve team into the NZFC and I thought this was a brilliant idea that would also provide the opportunity for 'curtain raiser' games for the team when Nix at home and give much better visibiltiy of the NZFC players to us all and better atmosephere than they currenly play in.
It fell apart for reasons that I did not think fully came through.
My thoughts for the topic:
1: What is your thoughts on the validity and benefit of having the reserve team playing in the NZFC comp.
2: Surely the inside knowledge that exist in the YF would know why this did not happen last time it was put forward.
3: Understand what anyone (maybe even the YF with it's influential support) can do to get this sorted so we don't lose more 'Costas' and can get game time for those not making the Nix starting 11.
There was an NZFC chairmans meeting over the weekend. Hopefully some positive movement came out of that.
I've asked the same question.
I'm told there can't be a Phoenix reserve team in the NZFC because your guys would be professionals playing in an amateur league. The NZFC has to be seen to be amateur to allow the Phoenix to play in the A League, so it's a Catch 22.
The real question is: why aren't the Phoenix allowed to field a youth/reserve team in the A League itself? I suggest because the Australians don't want a pathway for young NZ talent into the professional level.
Instead FFA gets all the benefit of a NZ-financed A league team, largely made up of Australian players, while not allowing the Phoenix any of the benefits of a financial return on reaching the playoffs, entry into the Asian competition, or even a pathway for young NZ players into the professional game.
Personally I think the Phoenix should either be allowed to play in the A League on the same basis as the Australian teams - which means a youth/reserve team and entry into the Asian competition if successful - or they shouldn't exist.
The big loser is the domestic NZ game out of all this.
See, this is the classic example of you not reading peoples responses and barelling on with your own blinkered views.
The NZFC's amateur status has nothing at all to do with the Phoenix's existance. It has to do with it being funded by Charity money, the implications on the US College system and the reality of the New Zealand football market. You had this pointed out to you at least 5 times you last started trolling and ignored it then as well.
The rest of your points are valid and campaigns continue to get that changed.
Your last statement is a HUGE call. The losers out of this are the youngsters who could be part of a professional environment and aspiring to greater things. The domestic NZ game has significant issues but the existance of the Phoenix youth isn't close to being one of them.
The NZFC's amateur status has nothing at all to do with the Phoenix's existance. It has to do with it being funded by Charity money, the implications on the US College system and the reality of the New Zealand football market. You had this pointed out to you at least 5 times you last started trolling and ignored it then as well.
The rest of your points are valid and campaigns continue to get that changed.
Your last statement is a HUGE call. The losers out of this are the youngsters who could be part of a professional environment and aspiring to greater things. The domestic NZ game has significant issues but the existance of the Phoenix youth isn't close to being one of them.
I agree the Youth team based on same conditions as other A leagure teams looks best but the arrangement (as I recall being proposed) to keep costs down ie we base our team out of Canberra, did not give much visibility back into the NZ scene.
I agree, if he professionalism is the issue then it causes problems but there is always ways around it to say, NZFC is not a professional league and the professional team playng in it does not get the same rights as the others as a result...sure wiser people than me could sort through it.
I like the NZFC option better if it can be made to work and would provide better cost and visibility - providing it does give comparitive competition standard.
Hopefully good news wil come out of the NZFC board meeting News mentioned.
Indeed - it's all well in good in the Yellow Fever sponsoring kids for training with the Phoenix and the such, but there's no point in doing all the dev of the Roja's of the world if there isn't a team to play them in.
I'm told there can't be a Phoenix reserve team in the NZFC because your guys would be professionals playing in an amateur league. The NZFC has to be seen to be amateur to allow the Phoenix to play in the A League, so it's a Catch 22.
Tony was one Newtalk Zb yesterday saying that is an issue, but one that is able to be worked around.
Dave - I'm not ignoring what you say I just disagree on the basic reason for the NZFC being amateur, I'm going on documents I saw when the Kingz were set up and as far as I know the same Fifa conditions still apply. Can you show me documents that prove otherwise or a clear statement from Tony Pignata? I do agree the trust money is part of the amateur status, but in all reality the NZFC is now being largely funded by the Fifa Club World Cup prizemoney won by City.
My question is why won't the FFA allow a Phoenix youth/reserve team in the A League and why can't the Phoenix play in the lucrative Asian competition if they qualify? Aren't the Australians having it both ways and Terry is paying for it?
im still hoping the pnix win the league ...itll lance a whole heap of nasty questions....
I also recall that one of the arguments raised in favour of allowing the Kingz to be included in the NSL was that there was no domestic professional competition to play in.
However my understanding is that there is no outirght condition - either from FIFA or the FFA - that New Zealand not have a domestic professional competition.
Nonetheless this is an enormous red herring because - as previously discussed ad infinitum - New Zealand cannot support a professional NZFC.
, I'm going on documents I saw when the Kingz were set up and as far as I know the same Fifa conditions still apply. Can you show me documents that prove otherwise or a clear statement from Tony Pignata? [/quote]
Blah blah blah.
Essentially this is your own personal understanding, supported by documents that you "saw" that must be a decade old, for a defunct team in an old competition.
Hardly authoritative.
[quote=Bluemagic]I do agree the trust money is part of the amateur status, but in all reality the NZFC is now being largely funded by the Fifa Club World Cup prizemoney won by City.
Massive yarn.
However that prize money ends up being distributed it is not enough to fully support the competition.
There is no way the NZFC could afford to move away from gaming machine funding, and even a cursory inspection of last year's accounts for most franchises will show you that.
[quote=Bluemagic] My question is why won't the FFA allow a Phoenix youth/reserve team in the A League and why can't the Phoenix play in the lucrative Asian competition if they qualify? Aren't the Australians having it both ways and Terry is paying for it?
Yes, they are. But that is Terry's decision, as it's his money.
While you clearly feel you know best, it's not up to you thank f**k.
Bluemagic - GIVE UP. The only person who will ever agree with you is Happy Ted.
What happens if Phoenix Youth win the NZFC? Nix Youth in the O-league? Players playing in a professional Asian competition one week could be playing in an Amateur Oceania the next. Or better yet Nix vs. Nix Youth at world club cup...
Ugh... this is such a mess, the shunts in Asia tell us to get out but FFA want us to stay, but wont give us a youth team, NZF dont want the Nix...
Ugh... this is such a mess, the shunts in Asia tell us to get out but FFA want us to stay, but wont give us a youth team, NZF dont want the Nix...
I don't think it would be a good idea to give Nix Youth a pathway into the O-League.
Ugh... this is such a mess, the shunts in Asia tell us to get out but FFA want us to stay, but wont give us a youth team, NZF dont want the Nix...
This is absolutely not the case.
Just had to point that out.
Pretty much everyone would love the Nix Yoof to be in the NZFC, but there are significant legal hurdles to that happening.
Tony P's assertion that "they can be got around" is probably true, but a bit glib. They aren't easy issues.
Ugh... this is such a mess, the shunts in Asia tell us to get out but FFA want us to stay, but wont give us a youth team, NZF dont want the Nix...
This is absolutely not the case.
Just had to point that out.
Sorry, just got a little caught up in angst for a second there
I see an easy solution. Actually I see two.
1) allow the Nix to field a Youth team in the A-League
2) Make kiwi's the same as Aussie players, that way also OZ clubs can pick up young kiwi talent without having to use an import slot.
In the end, let's face it, how many professional kiwi players are going to "flood" the Aussie market? Not too many!
of course I know that both solutions are likely to be never applied, but just think about it...
1) allow the Nix to field a Youth team in the A-League
2) Make kiwi's the same as Aussie players, that way also OZ clubs can pick up young kiwi talent without having to use an import slot.
In the end, let's face it, how many professional kiwi players are going to "flood" the Aussie market? Not too many!
of course I know that both solutions are likely to be never applied, but just think about it...
But if one of those young kiwis score a goal to knock Qatar out of world cup contention in 4 years time and deny west-asia another spot... the world is going to end.
but i agree.
AJ132010-02-15 14:53:45
but i agree.
AJ132010-02-15 14:53:45
1) allow the Nix to field a Youth team in the A-League
2) Make kiwi's the same as Aussie players, that way also OZ clubs can pick up young kiwi talent without having to use an import slot.
In the end, let's face it, how many professional kiwi players are going to "flood" the Aussie market? Not too many!
of course I know that both solutions are likely to be never applied, but just think about it...
Sadly 2) isn't an easy solution - in the early days of the A-League this was the case, but on joining the AFC this had to be done away with.
why can't the Nix youth/res team just play against NZFC teams on a "bye" week? they wouldn't need to be involved in the competition etc.. basically all they need is to be playing regularly. To me this is an easy solution that doesn't really effect anyone. I mean sure Terry/FFA might have to pay the NZFC teams to show up, but if this was to happen prior to home games for the first team it would give the NZFC teams an incentive to play well in front of bigger crowds etc.. in a hope that they get seen.
Could well be a good interim solution, but can you imagine Auckland City wanting to fly to Wellington to play a fixture for which they earn no points?
What happens if someone gets sent off in one of those fixtures - does it carry over?
Wouldn't teams be incentivised to rest key players against the Nix so that they can play those players fresh when competition points are at stake.
Etc etc.
So, while it might get around the legal hurdles to a certain extent it creates a set of problems all of its own if you don't have them officially "in" the competition.
Originally posted by Bluemagic
My question is why won't the FFA allow a Phoenix youth/reserve team in the A League and why can't the Phoenix play in the lucrative Asian competition if they qualify? Aren't the Australians having it both ways and Terry is paying for it?
My question is why won't the FFA allow a Phoenix youth/reserve team in the A League and why can't the Phoenix play in the lucrative Asian competition if they qualify? Aren't the Australians having it both ways and Terry is paying for it?
Yes, they are. But that is Terry's decision, as it's his money.
While you clearly feel you know best, it's not up to you thank f**k.
If " Terry " was happy to sign up for the deal he got , he deserves all he gets , why have his puppets whine on about "lack of support in NZ for a Pnix Yoof team"
Because he AGREED to it , muppets....
I am SOOOO ...hoping you guys win the league , the outpouring of bile and crocodile tears will be PHENOMENAL !!!!
uncloz2010-02-15 15:56:52
If " Terry " was happy to sign up for the deal he got , he deserves all he gets , why have his puppets whine on about "lack of support in NZ for a Pnix Yoof team"
Because he AGREED to it , muppets....
I am SOOOO ...hoping you guys win the league , the outpouring of bile and crocodile tears will be PHENOMENAL !!!!
Master the quote. Speak English. Make sense.
It's not hard loz.
It's not hard loz.
Well to me it is....if I could do all those Id have a proper job....
My question is why won't the FFA allow a Phoenix youth/reserve team in the A League and why can't the Phoenix play in the lucrative Asian competition if they qualify? Aren't the Australians having it both ways and Terry is paying for it? [/quote]
[quote=Smithy]
Yes, they are. But that is Terry's decision, as it's his money.
While you clearly feel you know best, it's not up to you thank f**k.
If " Terry " was happy to sign up for the deal he got , he deserves all he gets , why have his puppets whine on about "lack of support in NZ for a Pnix Yoof team"
Because he AGREED to it , muppets....
Iam SOOOO ...hoping you guys win the league , the outpouring of bile and crocodile tears will be PHENOMENAL !!!!
Umm, we're not the ones having a cry though?
My point , though still stands ...
Its you who are bleating for a Youth team is it not ??
Kind of. It's also your little enclave of gray and miserable whining that the Phoenix don't do anything for young New Zealand players and are a team full of foreigners, when youngsters like Costa explain that they are leaving because there is no reserve side to proof your worth.
You want to have it both ways.
You want to have it both ways.
NO just for you too read contracts, before you start complaining, that its " not what you wanted...."
I CARE for the Phoenix *
*As much as I care for any Aussie team...
*As much as I care for any Aussie team...
Not really bleating, no.
Just trying to make things better than they are one step at a time.
Is a shame that FFA won't have us in their Youth League, but wasn't a known fact at the start of the Phoenix, so the club has to be pragmatic and try and find a way to make things work.
If it can be made to happen the WPX Youth team in the NZFC would benefit everyone, including Auckland City.
By the way, are you drunk at all?
1, When the Phoenix joined the league there was no national youth league, so there was no contract stating it anyway.
2, When the Phoenix joined, the league had only 8 sides, now there are 10, more games played, a different finals system. There is now a national youth league and the W-Leaue womens leaguee. The participation agreement is a document that changes on circumstances every year. To ask for a change to allow a youth side isn't bleating, it's part of the discussion on how the club participates in the League and how the league operates.
3, Why does that impact the concept of a Phoenix side in the NZFC anyway ?
2, When the Phoenix joined, the league had only 8 sides, now there are 10, more games played, a different finals system. There is now a national youth league and the W-Leaue womens leaguee. The participation agreement is a document that changes on circumstances every year. To ask for a change to allow a youth side isn't bleating, it's part of the discussion on how the club participates in the League and how the league operates.
3, Why does that impact the concept of a Phoenix side in the NZFC anyway ?
NO.. and your excuse ?
2, When the Phoenix joined, the league had only 8 sides, now there are 10, more games played, a different finals system. There is now a national youth league and the W-Leaue womens leaguee. The participation agreement is a document that changes on circumstances every year. To ask for a change to allow a youth side isn't bleating, it's part of the discussion on how the club participates in the League and how the league operates.
3, Why does that impact the concept of a Phoenix side in the NZFC anyway ?
It doesnt , it could be more relevant on a Pnix side in its Proper League...
What is the name of this thread again ?
Still, typical Grey and Miserable. No research, no answers, so either doesn't respond or responds to one point out of three.
Still, typical Grey and Miserable. No research, no answers, so either doesn't respond or responds to one point out of three.
But wins that point ...honestly youd have been better off following the " hopeless drunk " attack...
Was either of you down at the Wellington game ?...just a grey dull thought....
ah...okay... what colour is the sky in your world loz ?
I can assure you both Smithy and I were at Team Wellington yesterday as we are every week that other football committments allow. I'll warn you now that's not a fight you will win.
Hard News2010-02-15 16:29:24
I can assure you both Smithy and I were at Team Wellington yesterday as we are every week that other football committments allow. I'll warn you now that's not a fight you will win.
Hard News2010-02-15 16:29:24