Well done to Dylan Fox for making the A League team of the week. He has been terrific lately and I forgive him for giving away the pen.
Fox has been a good find. But he was playing in the NZFC, ASBP, HPwateva level for a fair while. Surely there are others it is worth trialling or putting on a year contract to find out about?
I'm sorry to break up the "We <3 NZ" vibe you guys have here, but we need to keep dipping into the NPL for talent as well. Sure, we could get some more "personal reasons" cases. Sure, we could get some more Parkhouses and Lowrys. But that's the risk we have to take to survive. We're in an Aussie league. We need a balance of both developing the Kiwis (which I would definitely rather if we weren't about to be lambs to the slaughter) and bringing in some loyal Aussies from possibly smaller cities and states. Northern NSW has to be a gold mine, as well as Queensland, Capital Football (ACT) and we could even get in to Football Tasmania before they get a team (or be passed up for Southern Sydney.....)
I dont think anyone is advocating a Nix team made up only of young kiwi kids...far from it. You need a blend of experiance and youth and you have to go where ever you can to find it. But above all you need talent. What we have seen in the last few rounds, where Greenacre has given some of the kids a shot , is that some of these kids do have the talent to be good A-League players.
What I am questioning is the waste that has gone on for years, recruiting foreign journeyman players who in many cases have been inferior to a local product. We are probably going to be dumped out of the A-League anyway. So why not keep the kids on and even maybe add a few locals like Tim Payne, Gulley and maybe Howieson. We have come dead LAST again this year.....things cant get any worse! At least the kiwis might show some sort of pride playing for the club.
As for the All White internationl window clash. The Nix need to get hard nosed and tell NZF that they will not let their team get gutted by AW selection. They could negotiate a quota of maybe three players max for the AW;s. The Nix dont owe NZF any favours IMO...they dont have to release players. Winning the A-League is the clubs primary goal.
To me the biggest issue with the Kiwi players vs Aussie players is that so many of the Aussies we've had lately have been so poor and have taken up spots that our locals could have had. Surely there were better NZ options for the likes of Lowry, Parkhouse, Italiano and bloody Galloway that we would have been better off nurturing. Payne, Clapham, Hudson-Wihongi spring immediately to mind.
To me the biggest issue with the Kiwi players vs Aussie players is that so many of the Aussies we've had lately have been so poor and have taken up spots that our locals could have had. Surely there were better NZ options for the likes of Lowry, Parkhouse, Italiano and bloody Galloway that we would have been better off nurturing. Payne, Clapham, Hudson-Wihongi spring immediately to mind.
I'm sorry to break up the "We <3 NZ" vibe you guys have here, but we need to keep dipping into the NPL for talent as well. Sure, we could get some more "personal reasons" cases. Sure, we could get some more Parkhouses and Lowrys. But that's the risk we have to take to survive. We're in an Aussie league. We need a balance of both developing the Kiwis (which I would definitely rather if we weren't about to be lambs to the slaughter) and bringing in some loyal Aussies from possibly smaller cities and states. Northern NSW has to be a gold mine, as well as Queensland, Capital Football (ACT) and we could even get in to Football Tasmania before they get a team (or be passed up for Southern Sydney.....)
Completely disagree - if we had a great team of kiwis, top 4, playing in front of 10k+ every week there would be far less questions about our involvement in the league going forward.
Normo's coming home
I'm sorry to break up the "We <3 NZ" vibe you guys have here, but we need to keep dipping into the NPL for talent as well. Sure, we could get some more "personal reasons" cases. Sure, we could get some more Parkhouses and Lowrys. But that's the risk we have to take to survive. We're in an Aussie league. We need a balance of both developing the Kiwis (which I would definitely rather if we weren't about to be lambs to the slaughter) and bringing in some loyal Aussies from possibly smaller cities and states. Northern NSW has to be a gold mine, as well as Queensland, Capital Football (ACT) and we could even get in to Football Tasmania before they get a team (or be passed up for Southern Sydney.....)
Completely disagree - if we had a great team of kiwis, top 4, playing in front of 10k+ every week there would be far less questions about our involvement in the league going forward.
Key word is "great" Kiwis. No offence, but could we field a side full of Kiwis that would be A-League standard? Correction, what Kiwis could we attract that would be A-League standard? We have only two at the moment in Doyle and Cacace.. Singh not just yet.
I've said it a couple of times. We can't just have Kiwis for the hell of having Kiwis. If we continually get pumped 5-0 while having a full team of New Zealand born players, you won't get the 10k+, and definitely not the top 4.
I'm sorry to break up the "We <3 NZ" vibe you guys have here, but we need to keep dipping into the NPL for talent as well. Sure, we could get some more "personal reasons" cases. Sure, we could get some more Parkhouses and Lowrys. But that's the risk we have to take to survive. We're in an Aussie league. We need a balance of both developing the Kiwis (which I would definitely rather if we weren't about to be lambs to the slaughter) and bringing in some loyal Aussies from possibly smaller cities and states. Northern NSW has to be a gold mine, as well as Queensland, Capital Football (ACT) and we could even get in to Football Tasmania before they get a team (or be passed up for Southern Sydney.....)
Completely disagree - if we had a great team of kiwis, top 4, playing in front of 10k+ every week there would be far less questions about our involvement in the league going forward.
I think FFA would bless our involvement in the league if we were playing in front of 10k+ every week, and if we managed to finish in top six from time to time (and not be the wooden spooners every season). I do not think that a "great team of Kiwis" would be a factor for FFA. If we were a place where young Australian players could get a place to develop further, FFA would be happy.
While I would also like to see our young Kiwis develop here (guys like Rojas, Singh, etc), it is an Australian league and having guys like Burns, or like Tratt before, playing for us should tick a hell of a lot of boxes with FFA. Younger Australian players with talent also struggle to get a spot due to the number of imports.
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
Don't forget we are also meant to be providing opportunities for Australians too to help them develop and making ourselves worthy of a place.
Sail(22)
Fenton(25) Dura/Fox Doyle(25) Gulley(25)
Ridenton(22) Payne(24) Cacace(17)
Singh(19)
McCowatt(18) Krishna
Ages are as of now, not next season.
4 'Kids' in my view: Sail, Cacace, Singh, McCowatt (not necessarily starters, if we have 3-4 starting visa players)
Subs - Rogerson(19), Howieson(23), Scott Hilliar(23), TAHW(23)
Starting visa players in the spine - GK, CB, CM, CF
Other Kiwis making their way home after overseas stint?
Kotahitanga. We are one.
Don't forget we are also meant to be providing opportunities for Australians too to help them develop and making ourselves worthy of a place.
Are we?
Is that a condition or one of the metrics?
Condition but I could be wrong.
Sail(22)
Fenton(25) Dura/Fox Doyle(25) Gulley(25)
Ridenton(22) Payne(24) Cacace(17)
Singh(19)
McCowatt(18) Krishna
Ages are as of now, not next season.
4 'Kids' in my view: Sail, Cacace, Singh, McCowatt (not necessarily starters, if we have 3-4 starting visa players)
Subs - Rogerson(19), Howieson(23), Scott Hilliar(23), TAHW(23)
Starting visa players in the spine - GK, CB, CM, CF
Other Kiwis making their way home after overseas stint?
Can we please forget about Fenton... couldn't make the cut at Team Wellington and has done nothing at Melbourne to my knowledge... its a shame, but injuries have ruined his career.
Sail(22)
Fenton(25) Dura/Fox Doyle(25) Gulley(25)
Ridenton(22) Payne(24) Cacace(17)
Singh(19)
McCowatt(18) Krishna
Ages are as of now, not next season.
4 'Kids' in my view: Sail, Cacace, Singh, McCowatt (not necessarily starters, if we have 3-4 starting visa players)
Subs - Rogerson(19), Howieson(23), Scott Hilliar(23), TAHW(23)
Starting visa players in the spine - GK, CB, CM, CF
Other Kiwis making their way home after overseas stint?
If Fenton gets near an HAL game ever again, it’ll be too soon
Grumpy old bastard alert
Don't forget we are also meant to be providing opportunities for Australians too to help them develop and making ourselves worthy of a place.
Are we?
Is that a condition or one of the metrics?
If it is not one, then it is the other. And frankly so it should. This is not a Trans-tasman League, it is the officially the Australian League and we are there on a conditional permit as we get often reminded. We have our own national league in NZ, of sorts, but since we would like to be able to play at the higher (professional) level of HAL, then contributing to the development of younger Australians is a fair condition.
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
It's not a development league, I'd be surprised if signing Australians was a metric
It's not but we've more than pulled our weight in finding and developing Australian players in the last 10 years. We've taken more punts on State league players than the majority of Aus sides have.
It's not our immediate future though.
It's not a development league, I'd be surprised if signing Australians was a metric
Not a development league, it's an Australian league!! It's a condition. Gallop has even said that in an interview with Copa90 on the #savethenix video. (Or it might have been an Aussie journalist..)
To me the biggest issue with the Kiwi players vs Aussie players is that so many of the Aussies we've had lately have been so poor and have taken up spots that our locals could have had. Surely there were better NZ options for the likes of Lowry, Parkhouse, Italiano and bloody Galloway that we would have been better off nurturing. Payne, Clapham, Hudson-Wihongi spring immediately to mind.
Exactly. I don't think anyone is advocating a team fully made up of kiwi kids, but it's the average Aussies getting a run instead of them that is really galling.
a.haak
It's not a development league, I'd be surprised if signing Australians was a metric
Not a development league, it's an Australian league!! It's a condition. Gallop has even said that in an interview with Copa90 on the #savethenix video. (Or it might have been an Aussie journalist..)
Yes, it's an Australian league, that doesn't mean the clubs have a mandate to develop players. In fact the FFA got rid of the National Youth League which the A League clubs competed in a few years ago.
Just watched the Copa90 video and it was mentioned by a Sports Journalist (Dominic Bossi) which is quite different from Gallop obviously. However, here is Graham Arnold saying it's not a development league:
Ah, Dom Bossi... aka Kyle Patterson's lap dog.
Lost all credibility when people realised he was just peddling mistruths passed to him out of the FFA press office, and there is one big one right there on tape.
(---)
There is no evidence to say 'mostly Kiwi and challenging for the seat' has been a successful strategy though, is there?
In fact that path has led us to where we are now. So let's have something we can all get behind.
I never said 'young' by the way; why not some experienced kiwi pros as well, rather than Aussie/Euro journeymen?
The moment we can make Boxall or Wood an offer they cannot refuse I would be happy. However, we have a fat chance of Wood playing here. Also, regarding lesser lights, we have all commented on the fact that players who delivered well in other clubs can often find themselves a bit too relaxed and laid back once they are at the Nix, so there is always the risk of a slide like we've seen with Mikey McGlinchey since he came back here. To be fair, Greenacre needs to be given credit for clearly demanding more pride in the shirt judging by an improved attitude compared to what we've seen with Kalezic. However, even Greenie won't be able to make a silk purse out of sow's ear. Leroy George is playing the way I wish Patterson or Rogerson would, one day, but even accounting for low experience, they may not be at the same class level. We simply do not have seasoned Kiwi strikers available to us. I cannot see Wood or for that matter Rojas coming here, because they can do better elsewhere (much like Boxall is).
1) Wood isn't even in the question until his early/mid 30's, the guy is starting for a well performing team in arguably the best and toughest league in the world. Boxall is a somewhat more attainable goal, as is Rojas if his Heereveen endeavour falls flat, although both wouldn't happen any time soon as Boxall is on big money in a better league and if Rojas returns to this part of the world then Victory will probably be his first choice.
2) Leroy George is without doubt one of the league's best, it's probably only because of Mierzejewski that he won't win the Johnny Warren Medal. While I would say I expected more from Patterson and (until recently) Rogerson, it's pretty unfair to demand comparative performances from them in the future, let alone now. George is of a pedigree most players in the league will never get to.
I appreciate that you took my post literally. I meant it as an exaggerated illustration of the point made by some of us, that there aren't simply enough good / experienced Kiwi players around. You are right though that I should have said it in fewer words. We all have our shameful ailments; mine is that I tend to ramble.
Personally I favour fielding a good balance of promising Kiwi talent like Cacace or Ridenton, with seasoned Kiwi pros like Doyle or quality Australians (insert a name of your choice), such as we have available and willing to play here. Then add some decent visa imports for positions we cannot cover or to add oomph (Ifill type).
You are also right that it is not fair to compare Rogerson to Leroy George. But then, here we are, us suggesting to blood a team of mostly young Kiwis against teams sporting superb foreign recruits. Such experience would be interesting as an exception, not as a rule. An occassional experience may help to develop our young players, but basing our team around it would be bloody demoralising at least to a degree and likely to turn off our paying public and the FOX pundits.
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
