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R8 vs WSW, Sunday 1 Dec, 5 pm

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Posted November 27, 2013 06:50 · last edited November 27, 2013 06:54

ConanTroutman wrote:

I'll admit when I first suggested a lineup without Lia in it for this game I didn't clearly state why I thought he shouldn't play. But when I went back and did provide an argument (that I don't think he plays well against high-tempo pressing teams like WSW, and that he was clearly targeted as a weak link by them last time we played) the Lia defenders didn't respond or engage with the argument. Fine if you disagree with me but don't just gloss over an argument against him playing as "scapegoatism" because you disagree with it. 

Also, I agree that a lot of people on here do just say Lia sucks without really saying why they think that, as well as ignoring when he does do alright.


 

Agreed.  Any press and pace in the midfield tends to show Vinnie's weaknesses on the ball and chasing shadows.  But I tend to agree with those saying we still have no-one definitely better in the squad, and that he has played as well as I have seen him in the last couple of games.  The later is probably as much a complement to Ernie for getting more out of him.


I may be barking up the wrong tree, because I've only seen him play once, for just a half, against lower quality opposition, but if Alex Rufer can develop his ability to do a defensive shift alongside Manny we may get a home grown replacement for Lia by the end of the season.  In the pre-season at Kapiti I thought Rufer showed enough pace, did enough work tracking back, close marking and breaking up play in midfield to say he might be able to do the job as a good Vinnie upgrade.  Plus, clutching at straws a bit, Ernie is on record as saying Rufer could press for a starting spot this season.  With Carlos in the side I can't see anywhere else you'd fit Rufer in.  Any thoughts on that?  Might have to harden up a bit, but ...

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mjp2 edited November 27, 2013 06:54
ConanTroutman wrote:
I'll admit when I first suggested a lineup without Lia in it for this game I didn't clearly state why I thought he shouldn't play. But when I went back and did provide an argument (that I don't think he plays well against high-tempo pressing teams like WSW, and that he was clearly targeted as a weak link by them last time we played) the Lia defenders didn't respond or engage with the argument. Fine if you disagree with me but don't just gloss over an argument against him playing as "scapegoatism" because you disagree with it. 

Also, I agree that a lot of people on here do just say Lia sucks without really saying why they think that, as well as ignoring when he does do alright.

Agreed.  Any press and pace in the midfield tends to show Vinnie's weaknesses on the ball and chasing shadows.  But I tend to agree with those saying we still have no-one definitely better in the squad, and that he has played as well as I have seen him in the last couple of games.  The later is probably as much a complement to Ernie for getting more out of him.


I may be barking up the wrong tree, because I've only seen him play once, for just a half, against lower quality opposition, but if Alex Rufer can develop his ability to do a defensive shift alongside Manny we may get a home grown replacement for Lia by the end of the season.  In the pre-season at Kapiti I thought Rufer showed enough pace, did enough work tracking back, close marking and breaking up play in midfield to say he might be able to do the job as a good Vinnie upgrade.  Plus, clutching at straws a bit, Ernie is on record as saying Rufer could press for a starting spot this season.  With Carlos in the side I can't see anywhere else you'd fit Rufer in.  Any thoughts on that?  Might have to harden up a bit, but ...

mjp2 edited November 27, 2013 06:52
ConanTroutman wrote:
Jeff Vader wrote:
f.barisi wrote:

...and just a reminder, to Mr Vader, et al, who think Lia is now scaling new heights of personal performance:  Lia is mindbogglingly minging. 

Whoa whoa whoa there sonny. I am quite aware of how well he plays and does not play and I am not a fan. However I don't jump on the bandwagon and scapegoat him because in the main, he is performing at a better level than last year and has been consistent in our last 3 games. I'm not proclaiming him to be a world class DM but I at least give the guy credit for putting better performances than last year and showing some consistency in delivering that.


My point I made earlier is that people are calling to drop him this week despite his performances and the one he put in last week. There is no evidence to do so but people call for it. That is the essence in defining scapegoatism.

I'm not calling the saviour but give the guy credit for turning in a good hand.

I'll admit when I first suggested a lineup without Lia in it for this game I didn't clearly state why I thought he shouldn't play. But when I went back and did provide an argument (that I don't think he plays well against high-tempo pressing teams like WSW, and that he was clearly targeted as a weak link by them last time we played) the Lia defenders didn't respond or engage with the argument. Fine if you disagree with me but don't just gloss over an argument against him playing as "scapegoatism" because you disagree with it. 

Also, I agree that a lot of people on here do just say Lia sucks without really saying why they think that, as well as ignoring when he does do alright.

Agreed.  Any press and pace in the midfield tends to show Vinnie's weaknesses on the ball and chasing shadows.  But I tend to agree with those saying we still have no-one definitely better in the squad, and that he has played as well as I have seen him in the last couple of games.  The later is probably as much a complement to Ernie for getting more out of him.


I may be barking up the wrong tree, because I've only seen him play once, for just a half, against lower quality opposition, but if Alex Rufer can develop his ability to do a defensive shift alongside Manny we may get a home grown replacement for Lia by the end of the season.  In the pre-season at Kapiti I thought Rufer showed enough pace, did enough work tracking back, close marking and breaking up play in midfield to say he might be able to do the job as a good Vinnie upgrade.  Plus, clutching at straws a bit, Ernie is on record as saying Rufer could press for a starting spot this season.  With Carlos in the side I can't see anywhere else you'd fit Rufer in.  Any thoughts on that?  Might have to harden up a bit, but ...

mjp2 edited November 27, 2013 06:50
ConanTroutman wrote:
Jeff Vader wrote:
f.barisi wrote:

...and just a reminder, to Mr Vader, et al, who think Lia is now scaling new heights of personal performance:  Lia is mindbogglingly minging. 

Whoa whoa whoa there sonny. I am quite aware of how well he plays and does not play and I am not a fan. However I don't jump on the bandwagon and scapegoat him because in the main, he is performing at a better level than last year and has been consistent in our last 3 games. I'm not proclaiming him to be a world class DM but I at least give the guy credit for putting better performances than last year and showing some consistency in delivering that.


My point I made earlier is that people are calling to drop him this week despite his performances and the one he put in last week. There is no evidence to do so but people call for it. That is the essence in defining scapegoatism.

I'm not calling the saviour but give the guy credit for turning in a good hand.

I'll admit when I first suggested a lineup without Lia in it for this game I didn't clearly state why I thought he shouldn't play. But when I went back and did provide an argument (that I don't think he plays well against high-tempo pressing teams like WSW, and that he was clearly targeted as a weak link by them last time we played) the Lia defenders didn't respond or engage with the argument. Fine if you disagree with me but don't just gloss over an argument against him playing as "scapegoatism" because you disagree with it. 

Also, I agree that a lot of people on here do just say Lia sucks without really saying why they think that, as well as ignoring when he does do alright.

Agreed.  Any press and pace in the midfield tends to show Vinnie's weaknesses on the ball and chasing shadows.  But I tend to agree with those saying we still have no-one definitely better in the squad, and that he has played as well as I have seen him in the last couple of games.  The later is probably as much a complement to Ernie for getting more out of him.
I may be barking up the wrong tree, because I've only seen him play once, for just a half, against lower quality opposition, but if Alex Rufer can develop his ability to do a defensive shift alongside Manny we may get a home grown replacement for Lia by the end of the season.  In the pre-season at Kapiti I thought Rufer showed enough pace, did enough work tracking back, close marking and breaking up play in midfield to say he might be able to do the job as a good Vinnie upgrade.  Plus, clutching at straws a bit, Ernie is on record as saying Rufer could press for a starting spot this season.  With Carlos in the side I can't see anywhere else you'd fit Rufer in.  Any thoughts on that?  Might have to harden up a bit, but ...