W League

Some say that men watch it for the panty shots. One English senior club team actually sold advertising on their butts for that purpose. It was pretty gross.

 Short Skirts :)

I actually like netball - I'm not committed enough to watch two aussie sides duke it out in the ANZ champs but I will watch a NZ game especially one featuring the Mystics (sorry Enzo) - and fast 5.  Aussie vs Silver Ferns games are almost as good as a rugby test match.

Lots of kiwi's are sports lovers - there are always going to be groups of people who won't watch anything but their chosen sport but lots of people still want to watch Rugby, League, Cricket, Netball, Football, Basketball, Golf etc.

Even if only women watched it, you can easily get enough numbers from that half of society to make it a "popular" sport.

Has a TV deal

The problem with woman's football is that around the world there is always some men's football on. Women's football just doesn't stack up in terms of quality. The game can be open and exciting but it just isn't of the same quality as men's football at the highest level. When you watch a game of ANZ Championship that is the best quality of domestic netball you will see. It just isn't the same for woman's football. Many of the domestic netball teams seem to get half decent crouds, too.

Because every time NZ play Australia it is basically the World Cup final as no one else really plays it.

The same is true for AFL and that isn't a big spectator sport here.

People like netball because they've grown up in a culture where netball is a major televised sport. As a spectacle of sports skills and athleticism it pales in comparison to both men's and women's basketball. Its like yachting - its embraced by kiwis because there's a mainstream cultural narrative which it fits into. Football is still not a part of mainstream kiwi culture, except perhaps as a sport for kids. And our cultural cringe manifests in relation to football in the way that people compare any local football to England and the EPL. I don't think comparisons between netball and women's football are really meaningful.

A lot of people used to say the same sort of stuff about tennis. Not so much anymore. It's personal taste. Personally I enjoy women's football at least as much if not more than the men's game.

Nobody's perfect!

I went to see the Mainland Pride play NZ Development squad in the ASB Women's League Final here in Christchurch in December and I was impressed by how good Mainland Pride were.

Three cracking goals from the Pride which would have been considered very good goals in a men's game.

They played more attractive football than the Canterbury United men's team did last season.

The croud for the final was also better than any that Canterbury United got last season.

So, I think that women's football definitely has potential to pull crouds in.

A NZ W-League side could play some games around the country - maybe on a double-bill with ASB Premiership games. 

You do wonder how it would be financed though with small crouds in the W-League and long travel distances across the ditch.

Also there's no TV deal at present.

Only 2671 attended the W-League Final last season at Nib Stadium, Perth:

http://www.w-league.com.au/matchcentre/Perth-Glory...

Regular season games sometimes only attract about 300 punters (such as at Melbourne Victory or Newcastle Jets).

Last season a record croud of 3,084 attended Marconi Stadium in Sydney to see Sydney FC against Western Sydney Wanderers to achieve the highest attendance for a regular-season Westfield W-League match (other than Hyundai A-League double-headers).

We know we could beat that. Ladies football might not have the power and quickness of mens but technically some females play a better game than their counterparts. Keep an open mind to the idea is all I ask. I enjoy watching it as a spectacle.

A contribution to this debate by a female football lover, player and administrator is here for anyone keen to have a read:

http://in-the-back-of-the.net/2015/05/27/guest-post-a-case-for-a-professional-womens-football-team-in-aotearoa-new-zealand/

Purely an aspirational article and not coming up with anything new that hasn't been posted here. The only part that caused any kind of reaction for me was that she stated that the ANZ Netball competition was semi professional, why that doesn't ring any bells about how tough it would be to have a professional womens' football side escapes me.

I’m banging my head against the wall, despite a number of very good reasons articulated in here on why Women’s football is likely to flounder the only responses to the contrary are things like:

• We should have a women’s pro team because we have a men’s one.
• It would be good to have a pro team because I’d come and watch it [once].
• There are so many women playing professionally overseas that we should have a team here.
• If we had a team here, they would all come back and play for sixpence.
• We will be able to support it because sport NZ will fund it.
• It will automatically get a TV deal because it just will.
• Because you don’t think anyone will watch it, I’ll get together a group of radical lesbians and they will kick your old white [allegedly] ass.

For God’s sake, will somebody please tell me, how this will work when no other women’s sport in NZ [and I think Australia] has been able to go professional and sustain it? If the Nix are losing money running a men’s team/s, why on earth would they want to lose more money by having a women’s team that has no show of making money?

Anyone?

maybe the Nix have a pokie money strategy

I think an aspirational voice is useful. The women's game is one of the key projected growth areas for NZF (and FFA). On one side, national football bodies need to provide sponsors with meaningful engagement opportunities to women and girls - this is critical to obtain sponsorship and any potential broadcast coverage; on the other, as more young girls start playing football, they need appropriate competitions in which to play - for those at the elite end, this is professional football. These two needs can only have any chance of happening in this part of the world via the Australian W league framework. Sure, there is a long way to go but the vision and commitment to integrate the women's game from a commercial perspective, is paramount to growing success of football, for both genders.

The percentage of NZ/OZ populations with a footballing background continues to grow and more girls will play football if they see potential career paths. The Portland Thorns have built a successful club off the back of the Timbers. It can be done. It's in the interests of NZF and the Phoenix to get on board.

I agree with Napier Phoenix. It's a good article, and I'm all for a women's pro team here, 100% behind the idea, but the article Enzo posted is all about why we SHOULD have one, not how we CAN. There's a lot of things NZF SHOULD have, in an ideal world.

Yes, it should be looked at seriously, but if it isn't a realistic, sustainable option it could well do more harm than good. You could argue, well I could, that it might be better to find ways of improving and funding more work on improving the coaching, infrastructure etc on the women's game domestically.

I don't think Gareth, Rob, Henry and co got to where they are today by saying SHOULD. Bet they used WILL and CAN more.

Agreed. It's all about having,and committing to, a vision.

With the greatest respect to women and women's football, Gareth et al had a going concern to step in and take over, (albeit on the bones of it's arse) so they obviously saw an opportunity. Bit of a different proposition. I'm all for dreams, vision and idealism, but then again I wouldn't be the one who'd be pouring my money into a black hole. Could argue that the Nix aren't making money, so what's the attraction for any businessman to take on a new project which is going to add to the financial losses? As has been mentioned, nobody has actually addressed the nuts and bolts of how it would be sustainable, just a lot of talk about how it should happen.

Like I said earlier, agree with the idea. the reality isn't quite that cut and dried though.

It is nowhere near the same.

This is a case for a NZF Wanderers type club formation (or FFA WSW); at least initially.

I respect people who know more about football than me (most people) who say that a team in the W-League is not what NZ women's football needs right now. But I don't respect financial arguments, and I don't accept that failure to provide one here invalidates any other arguments made. I know even less about accountancy than I do about football, and I don't see why I or anyone else should be required to present anyone here with a business case in order to be taken seriously.

So far, all the people I've seen who are opposed to this are men who know best. That's fine and dandy but ask any female player who is plying her trade for nothing in the ASB Women's League or the NRFL (while men in the NRFL and the ASB Premiership get some sort of payment at many if not most clubs) and I don't think you'd find too many who wouldn't want exactly the same opportunities as men to play the game in New Zealand at the highest possible level - and why shouldn't they?

Call me an idealist, and I am, but in my perfect world it would be compulsory for all A-League clubs to put a team in the W-League as well. It should be part of the cost of doing business. That's called equality. Instead of asking women to justify to us men why they should have what we already enjoy, we should all be expecting it as a matter of course.

Reading about American National Women's Soccer League is quite interesting in how the USA, Canada and Mexico federations pay for their national players salaries in that comp. Is there a way that NZF can do the same with any national teams members that would be on the Nix roster?

If you're are really worried about equality then they should be advocating for pay parity for women as well.

It's fine being an idealist, but you have to be a realist sometimes. If you see the Nix as a philanthropic endeavour then yes the owners should keep throwing money at the football operations and expand in to the W-League, because it will be for the good of the game in this country. But it's a business. We know that's how Welnix want to run the club, and they want it to be sustainable. It's great saying these aspirational things and having goals to aim for. But you need to know the steps of how to get you there and how it will work, otherwise it's just hollow words.

Here's a business case. Half the fudging population.

Thanks for the tip, I'll get right on that.

I think this is the key point - while the team would obviously have to be branded under the Nix banner NZF have much better funding streams at the moment for Women's Football and it would benefit their programs greatly to have this team so on the financial side maybe it's primarily funded by NZF but the Nix just play them under their branding.

I think this is a great solution Chopah.

When I was playign social womens football a pat of my subs wentto the senior tems cost for travel, I don't see why subsidising the women now is any different.

Is there a breakdown of the number of female players v male players in NZ? No hidden agenda, just curious what the respective numbers might be. 

The only thing I can think of is that they have a fairly large new (or perhaps existing) sponsor waiting in the wings who has indicated they will pump a load of money in if the Nix have a W League team. Not really sure Welnix as a group have a desire to throw more money at the club

Which would be great, if that's the case. Just finding it interesting that the FFA and others acroos the Tasman are (allegedly) unhappy about what the Phoenix are bringing to the W League but would consider allowing a "SheNix" team into the A League. Different set of criteria and expectations, maybe? Which would completely fly in the face of the 'pro-equality' side of the argument, or maybe pragmatism rears it's ugly head then?

At a guess perhaps 10% of registered players would be female. The business case is completely based on the opportunity though. Netball doesn't hold much more potential than status quo because it is not the game of immigrants to this country, and will only ever be played by a handful of countries. No other team sport has the opportunity that football does.

Yeah, wasn't suggesting it would be. Just when you posted the 'half the population' thing, I wondered what the actual figures were. For no other reason than curiosity, to be honest.

I can see Mojo Coffee being the main shirt sponsor of the womens team (if Huawei haven't got it or potential to have it as part of their deal).