Wellington Phoenix Women General Discussion and Squad Speculation

Ranix

The meaning of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results.
I feel a lot of things need to change with the Nix ALW program not just the coach. A new coach will help that process. Keeping the status quo will hinder change.
Not buying the lets see how it goes for another season approach.

Thankfully for Man Utd they didn't sack Ferguson after almost 4 seasons without silverware and in the 89-90 season (his 4th in charge) losing 5-1 to a shark Man City, having 6 losses and 2 draws in 8 games and going into a FA Cup 3rd round game against Forest 7 games without a win. Given the outlay for players in previous seasons as well, the Man Utd board at the time must have been the most insane group of people in the history of people.

looking at the EPL in recent times, the club the kept their eye on the plan and stuck with their manager is currently top of the league. 
some times sticking with the plan is the best plan, changing just because the planned result didnt happen immediately is short sighted. the women's team was always a long term development thing, not a "buy a trophy", flash in the pan kind of thing.

Kelli Brown signs on for Aussie. NPLW team.
https://www.friendsoffootballnz.com/2023/04/04/age-group-international-striker-kelli-brown-signs-for-top-new-south-wales-club/
Good on her. Hope we see some of the Nix girls doing similar signing on for NPLW. She joins Rebecca Lake over there, and others no doubt.
This is the type of stuff that needs to change with the Nix women team. Its a long long off season, Get the girls out playing competive football in the off season, rather than huddled away in an internal environment away from competitive football.

theprof

looking at the EPL in recent times, the club the kept their eye on the plan and stuck with their manager is currently top of the league. 
some times sticking with the plan is the best plan, changing just because the planned result didnt happen immediately is short sighted. the women's team was always a long term development thing, not a "buy a trophy", flash in the pan kind of thing.

Sure by that example it sounds great to stick with a coach, but let's be real Arsenal had enough quality to never be in a relegation scrap while they built. There are pelenty of lower teams that end up in a bad way from sticking with something that doesnt work. Should a team thats consistently finishing bottom stick with their manager? That I don't know. 

I don't think Lawrence is sufficiently experienced enough to handle this level yet, definitely not suggesting that she can't reach that level eventually, but I think there needs to be some more development.

I suppose the real question is whether or not we're able to hire male managers. Because if we've limited ourselves to women then we may well have the best option available at this time.

Lawrence may not be as experienced as we'd like, but where does she get that experience? She has been the assistant for 1 season and was looking to build on that experience as an assistant for this seasson except the manager upped and left for an international job. So rather than get a brand new manager at short notice the club went with Lawrence, she obviously knew the plan and the team, probably had some defferent ideas from the original manager as well. For mine, two years at the bottom doesnt constitute consistantly failing. If it was 5 years then I'd totally agree with you. Year one was exactly that, year one! A year for learning and figuring out what the league was like, year two was almost a restart, we changed a good number of players, brought in some Ferns who wanted to make a case for their inclusion in the WC. Whilst I'm sure they squad, managers and club would have hoped/wabnted to finish higher up, it wasnt to be. We had some frailties, both in the squad and tactics. But we steadily improved, tried some new things and some worked some didnt. For me that progression is more important than were the team finished. Next season is the one I want to see us finish mid table (minimum). Its a full home and away season! We hopefully will be able to target an import or two to bolster the striking force - hopefully it's not a complete squad reset - there is potential there. Lawrence deserves a chance to put her plan into play, not build on someone else's. If we end up seeing the same results then the coach has to go.

theprof

Lawrence may not be as experienced as we'd like, but where does she get that experience? She has been the assistant for 1 season and was looking to build on that experience as an assistant for this seasson except the manager upped and left for an international job. So rather than get a brand new manager at short notice the club went with Lawrence, she obviously knew the plan and the team, probably had some defferent ideas from the original manager as well. For mine, two years at the bottom doesnt constitute consistantly failing. If it was 5 years then I'd totally agree with you. Year one was exactly that, year one! A year for learning and figuring out what the league was like, year two was almost a restart, we changed a good number of players, brought in some Ferns who wanted to make a case for their inclusion in the WC. Whilst I'm sure they squad, managers and club would have hoped/wabnted to finish higher up, it wasnt to be. We had some frailties, both in the squad and tactics. But we steadily improved, tried some new things and some worked some didnt. For me that progression is more important than were the team finished. Next season is the one I want to see us finish mid table (minimum). Its a full home and away season! We hopefully will be able to target an import or two to bolster the striking force - hopefully it's not a complete squad reset - there is potential there. Lawrence deserves a chance to put her plan into play, not build on someone else's. If we end up seeing the same results then the coach has to go.

So in summary, You'd be happy with the staus quo. Maybe get an import number 9 (always a gamble). And just see how it goes for another season.

theprof

Lawrence may not be as experienced as we'd like, but where does she get that experience? She has been the assistant for 1 season and was looking to build on that experience as an assistant for this seasson except the manager upped and left for an international job. So rather than get a brand new manager at short notice the club went with Lawrence, she obviously knew the plan and the team, probably had some defferent ideas from the original manager as well. For mine, two years at the bottom doesnt constitute consistantly failing. If it was 5 years then I'd totally agree with you. Year one was exactly that, year one! A year for learning and figuring out what the league was like, year two was almost a restart, we changed a good number of players, brought in some Ferns who wanted to make a case for their inclusion in the WC. Whilst I'm sure they squad, managers and club would have hoped/wabnted to finish higher up, it wasnt to be. We had some frailties, both in the squad and tactics. But we steadily improved, tried some new things and some worked some didnt. For me that progression is more important than were the team finished. Next season is the one I want to see us finish mid table (minimum). Its a full home and away season! We hopefully will be able to target an import or two to bolster the striking force - hopefully it's not a complete squad reset - there is potential there. Lawrence deserves a chance to put her plan into play, not build on someone else's. If we end up seeing the same results then the coach has to go.

I must say that I haven't really seen much from her that suggests she has much of a plan, and even less that suggests she understands game management very well. 

Sure she didn't get to choose this team but she never really would have anyway with NZF pulling the strings but surely she understands each player, their strengths and weaknesses and how to best utilize them? It would've been nice to see a little more pragmatism from her.

Now this isn't me hating on Lawrence at all, but I just don't think she's at the level required to handle this. I also don't think simply throwing her in it again will suddenly make her a good coach either.

There's one other factor at play here, the world cup. We're gonna be hosting one of the bigger football events in the world very soon and there's great potential to build something positive from it afterwards, I think the Nix may be doing themselves a disservice to not try to get a better coach that can draw some fans in after the cup. There a chance that Lawrence improves the Nix but I think there's an equal chance they get the spoon again and I don't think that's an acceptable risk after the WWC.

Ranix

theprof

Lawrence may not be as experienced as we'd like, but where does she get that experience? She has been the assistant for 1 season and was looking to build on that experience as an assistant for this seasson except the manager upped and left for an international job. So rather than get a brand new manager at short notice the club went with Lawrence, she obviously knew the plan and the team, probably had some defferent ideas from the original manager as well. For mine, two years at the bottom doesnt constitute consistantly failing. If it was 5 years then I'd totally agree with you. Year one was exactly that, year one! A year for learning and figuring out what the league was like, year two was almost a restart, we changed a good number of players, brought in some Ferns who wanted to make a case for their inclusion in the WC. Whilst I'm sure they squad, managers and club would have hoped/wabnted to finish higher up, it wasnt to be. We had some frailties, both in the squad and tactics. But we steadily improved, tried some new things and some worked some didnt. For me that progression is more important than were the team finished. Next season is the one I want to see us finish mid table (minimum). Its a full home and away season! We hopefully will be able to target an import or two to bolster the striking force - hopefully it's not a complete squad reset - there is potential there. Lawrence deserves a chance to put her plan into play, not build on someone else's. If we end up seeing the same results then the coach has to go.

So in summary, You'd be happy with the staus quo. Maybe get an import number 9 (always a gamble). And just see how it goes for another season.

I wouldnt say status quo, I'm not  abig fan or panic changes when there is no emergency, I'd expect the same management personnel for sure, looking for some squad improvements as I expect some of the Ferns players will depart after the WC. Lets see what Lawrence can build and who she'll bring into the squad to achieve the hopefd for improvement.

Monto

theprof

Lawrence may not be as experienced as we'd like, but where does she get that experience? She has been the assistant for 1 season and was looking to build on that experience as an assistant for this seasson except the manager upped and left for an international job. So rather than get a brand new manager at short notice the club went with Lawrence, she obviously knew the plan and the team, probably had some defferent ideas from the original manager as well. For mine, two years at the bottom doesnt constitute consistantly failing. If it was 5 years then I'd totally agree with you. Year one was exactly that, year one! A year for learning and figuring out what the league was like, year two was almost a restart, we changed a good number of players, brought in some Ferns who wanted to make a case for their inclusion in the WC. Whilst I'm sure they squad, managers and club would have hoped/wabnted to finish higher up, it wasnt to be. We had some frailties, both in the squad and tactics. But we steadily improved, tried some new things and some worked some didnt. For me that progression is more important than were the team finished. Next season is the one I want to see us finish mid table (minimum). Its a full home and away season! We hopefully will be able to target an import or two to bolster the striking force - hopefully it's not a complete squad reset - there is potential there. Lawrence deserves a chance to put her plan into play, not build on someone else's. If we end up seeing the same results then the coach has to go.

I must say that I haven't really seen much from her that suggests she has much of a plan, and even less that suggests she understands game management very well. 

Sure she didn't get to choose this team but she never really would have anyway with NZF pulling the strings but surely she understands each player, their strengths and weaknesses and how to best utilize them? It would've been nice to see a little more pragmatism from her.

Now this isn't me hating on Lawrence at all, but I just don't think she's at the level required to handle this. I also don't think simply throwing her in it again will suddenly make her a good coach either.

There's one other factor at play here, the world cup. We're gonna be hosting one of the bigger football events in the world very soon and there's great potential to build something positive from it afterwards, I think the Nix may be doing themselves a disservice to not try to get a better coach that can draw some fans in after the cup. There a chance that Lawrence improves the Nix but I think there's an equal chance they get the spoon again and I don't think that's an acceptable risk after the WWC.

Pinning your hopes on the Phoenix to produce something good is probably never a great idea.

Christo

Monto

theprof

Lawrence may not be as experienced as we'd like, but where does she get that experience? She has been the assistant for 1 season and was looking to build on that experience as an assistant for this seasson except the manager upped and left for an international job. So rather than get a brand new manager at short notice the club went with Lawrence, she obviously knew the plan and the team, probably had some defferent ideas from the original manager as well. For mine, two years at the bottom doesnt constitute consistantly failing. If it was 5 years then I'd totally agree with you. Year one was exactly that, year one! A year for learning and figuring out what the league was like, year two was almost a restart, we changed a good number of players, brought in some Ferns who wanted to make a case for their inclusion in the WC. Whilst I'm sure they squad, managers and club would have hoped/wabnted to finish higher up, it wasnt to be. We had some frailties, both in the squad and tactics. But we steadily improved, tried some new things and some worked some didnt. For me that progression is more important than were the team finished. Next season is the one I want to see us finish mid table (minimum). Its a full home and away season! We hopefully will be able to target an import or two to bolster the striking force - hopefully it's not a complete squad reset - there is potential there. Lawrence deserves a chance to put her plan into play, not build on someone else's. If we end up seeing the same results then the coach has to go.

I must say that I haven't really seen much from her that suggests she has much of a plan, and even less that suggests she understands game management very well. 

Sure she didn't get to choose this team but she never really would have anyway with NZF pulling the strings but surely she understands each player, their strengths and weaknesses and how to best utilize them? It would've been nice to see a little more pragmatism from her.

Now this isn't me hating on Lawrence at all, but I just don't think she's at the level required to handle this. I also don't think simply throwing her in it again will suddenly make her a good coach either.

There's one other factor at play here, the world cup. We're gonna be hosting one of the bigger football events in the world very soon and there's great potential to build something positive from it afterwards, I think the Nix may be doing themselves a disservice to not try to get a better coach that can draw some fans in after the cup. There a chance that Lawrence improves the Nix but I think there's an equal chance they get the spoon again and I don't think that's an acceptable risk after the WWC.

Pinning your hopes on the Phoenix to produce something good is probably never a great idea.

Fair play, been feeling that since 2007.

I take it all back, carry on.

I think Western United showed us you can assemble a ALW Finals Football squad in one season.

And if the Nix where to try and shoulder that post-World Cup momentum (or maybe even just try and capitalise on it) they'd absolutely have to be looking at finals football (I think top 6 teams from next year?).

Does just changing the coach get them there? Are the Nix hierarchy willing to make wholesale changes to the squad to get them there (let's face it, they'd probably need to)? Do they keep their faith in what they have? Does it even matter to them? Shoulder shrug emoji – I guess we will find out.

Christo

I think Western United showed us you can assemble a ALW Finals Football squad in one season.

And if the Nix where to try and shoulder that post-World Cup momentum (or maybe even just try and capitalise on it) they'd absolutely have to be looking at finals football (I think top 6 teams from next year?).

Does just changing the coach get them there? Are the Nix hierarchy willing to make wholesale changes to the squad to get them there (let's face it, they'd probably need to)? Do they keep their faith in what they have? Does it even matter to them? Shoulder shrug emoji – I guess we will find out.

Western United is basically Calder United, a team that has dominated the Victorian NPL Women's competition for the last few seasons + added in 4 visas & a guest player. Isn't a like for like comparison with the Nix.

Mark Toscano there coach also has a long carer coaching women's football. He is very experienced in the women's game and has been the coach of Calder United since 2016 in the competitive Victoria NPLW. Including multiple trophies wins.

Edit. In comparison. Lawrences last head coach role pre Nix was a boys youth team in Youth grade football in wellington. Without resounding success.

I don't mean to get on Natalie Lawrences case. If she's the best candidate then sure I'll back her and continue to enjoy watching the Nix women play. But she got thrust into the head coach role late because when Lewis left there really wasn't time to do a proper search. Now there is time so I hope that the Nix do proper due diligence and take there time in appointing the coach for next season. Not just give it straight to Natalie again because she is there and that's easy. 

RR

Christo

I think Western United showed us you can assemble a ALW Finals Football squad in one season.

And if the Nix where to try and shoulder that post-World Cup momentum (or maybe even just try and capitalise on it) they'd absolutely have to be looking at finals football (I think top 6 teams from next year?).

Does just changing the coach get them there? Are the Nix hierarchy willing to make wholesale changes to the squad to get them there (let's face it, they'd probably need to)? Do they keep their faith in what they have? Does it even matter to them? Shoulder shrug emoji – I guess we will find out.

Western United is basically Calder United, a team that has dominated the Victorian NPL Women's competition for the last few seasons + added in 4 visas & a guest player. Isn't a like for like comparison with the Nix.

If we want NZ players in the 'Nix it hampers how many foreign players we can bring in to offset squad limitations (I think its still this) - max 11 kiwis and min 7 Aussies (we've leaned on players with dual citizenship to meet the min 7 Aussies but have more kiwis like Bri Edwards). WU had one of the best 'keepers and the top goal scorer both foreign players and alongside those two the other most minutes by a player is Guyanese/American. If we had the same squad restrictions as the 'Nix ALM squad we would have more flexibility to bring foreign players and you can't compare squads between 'Nix ALW and other ALW teams.

I wondered what happened to kelli brown. She's a goalscorer.
How come she hasn't had a look in for the Phoenix,it's not like we have any strikers???

sorry coochiee but the fellas who wrote that must have had a fair few beers in them.

Showtime Nixie

sorry coochiee but the fellas who wrote that must have had a fair few beers in them.

Nick Robinson - Niche Cache. I like reading his stuff. Always a lot of detail.

Though yes he has been pretty kind on both our 2 most prominent female football teams of late, the Nix ALW & Football Ferns. They are opinion pieces after all, open to debate.

coochiee

https://theniche-cache.com/football/2023/4/6/eight-signs-of-progress-from-the-wellington-phoenix-women-in-year-two

Did we win the comp!
Oh that’s right we got the wooden spoon, again 

coochiee

Showtime Nixie

sorry coochiee but the fellas who wrote that must have had a fair few beers in them.

Nick Robinson - Niche Cache. I like reading his stuff. Always a lot of detail.

Though yes he has been pretty kind on both our 2 most prominent female football teams of late, the Nix ALW & Football Ferns. They are opinion pieces after all, open to debate.

I think it's a very good analysis and summary.  Interesting viewpoint on Wisnewski for player of the season. He makes a good case. Foster has to be a candidate, she was just outstanding all year. Barry also did sterling work, holding a shaky defence together in the first part of the season, and consistently looking dominant. Player of the season for me though has to be Hassett.  The team has improved over the season obviously and I think Hassetts experience ,dedication and sheer effort and example have played a large factor in that.

Where are all the players off to from now until the WWC? That’s a fair while off now, so I’m interested to hear how the players will keep match fit in between times. Also they have to appoint a women’s team coach, so the sooner they do that the better as they will have more time to scout players and scope out intentions of the players that we had this season. Have they done the end of year internal awards? Would be interesting to hear who the player player and coaches player of the season was.

Fenix

I wondered what happened to kelli brown. She's a goalscorer.
How come she hasn't had a look in for the Phoenix,it's not like we have any strikers???

She scored a goal for NPL team McArthur Rams on the weekend.

Unused sub

Where are all the players off to from now until the WWC? That’s a fair while off now, so I’m interested to hear how the players will keep match fit in between times. Also they have to appoint a women’s team coach, so the sooner they do that the better as they will have more time to scout players and scope out intentions of the players that we had this season. Have they done the end of year internal awards? Would be interesting to hear who the player player and coaches player of the season was.

Hassett was due to play for a few months in Iceland until she broke some ribs against Nigeria.

Saw Mackenzie Barry at the Uppers Pak n Save earlier.

Wanted to say something like it was great watching you this season but then I lost my nuts being around someone famous and left her to peace and quiet.

Bananas

Saw Mackenzie Barry at the Uppers Pak n Save earlier.

Wanted to say something like it was great watching you this season but then I lost my nuts being around someone famous and left her to peace and quiet.

Was she getting a WC lotto ticket?

Didn’t the club say that they were close to announcing both the men’s and women’s team’s coaches soon? Is the women’s team announcement imminent? When does the Auckland womens team enter the competition? 

Interesting talking to a few people involved with the women's reserve team and others that are friends with players in both of the teams, there's quite a few of them that genuinely belive that the reserves are a better team then the firsts. Apparently they've now beaten the firsts multiple times in training matches too.

Based on watching the reserves I'd tend to agree that they're a much better coached and drilled outfit, I think perhaps playing against u17 boys has been a big development boon for them. Passing is far sharper than the firsts, they're plenty physical enough and the tactical structure is certainly better.

Not really suggesting anything in particular with this just think it's interesting. 

That’s an absolute load of rubbish Monti. They didn’t play games against each other at training.
Any training games were small field  games using the whole 1st squad with possibly additional train-ons brought in if required to cover injuries etc.
The academy didn’t train at NZCIS or have access to the gym etc, they trained and played in lower hut.
I would check your sources.

Kenyabold

That’s an absolute load of rubbish Monti. They didn’t play games against each other at training.
Any training games were small field  games using the whole 1st squad with possibly additional train-ons brought in if required to cover injuries etc.
The academy didn’t train at NZCIS or have access to the gym etc, they trained and played in lower hut.
I would check your sources.

Meh, just what I heard from the girls involved. Could be a case of egos over exaggerating. And yes I'm aware that they train at Avalon.

They definitely look technically better than a lot of the firsts though. Certainly better coached.

“They definitely look technically better than a lot of the firsts though. Certainly better coached.”

No arguments there!

Who coaches the academy/reserves? 

.

Unused sub

Who coaches the academy/reserves? 

Paul Temple

The Paul Temple who has primarily coached female teams with great success from Club teams in Auckland to rep teams and nz teams at FIFA world cups with decent results….. I hope he puts his hat in the ring for the Phoenix women’s team coach. If he doesn’t get the job then I would assume that he will apply and probably get a role with the new Auckland team if we can’t keep him. 

Unused sub

The Paul Temple who has primarily coached female teams with great success from Club teams in Auckland to rep teams and nz teams at FIFA world cups with decent results….. I hope he puts his hat in the ring for the Phoenix women’s team coach. If he doesn’t get the job then I would assume that he will apply and probably get a role with the new Auckland team if we can’t keep him. 

That Paul Temple, yes. 
Except I don’t believe Temps is coaching reserves, he is Academy director of coaching (or some such similar title)
Chris Greenacre is head coach for  reserves.

ClubOranje

Unused sub

The Paul Temple who has primarily coached female teams with great success from Club teams in Auckland to rep teams and nz teams at FIFA world cups with decent results….. I hope he puts his hat in the ring for the Phoenix women’s team coach. If he doesn’t get the job then I would assume that he will apply and probably get a role with the new Auckland team if we can’t keep him. 

That Paul Temple, yes. 
Except I don’t believe Temps is coaching reserves, he is Academy director of coaching (or some such similar title)
Chris Greenacre is head coach for  reserves.

Greenie has nothing to do with women as far as I know

Feverish

ClubOranje

Unused sub

The Paul Temple who has primarily coached female teams with great success from Club teams in Auckland to rep teams and nz teams at FIFA world cups with decent results….. I hope he puts his hat in the ring for the Phoenix women’s team coach. If he doesn’t get the job then I would assume that he will apply and probably get a role with the new Auckland team if we can’t keep him. 

That Paul Temple, yes. 
Except I don’t believe Temps is coaching reserves, he is Academy director of coaching (or some such similar title)
Chris Greenacre is head coach for  reserves.

Greenie has nothing to do with women as far as I know

Sorry, correct, I failed to notice we are on the women’s threads. 
Greenie of course is doing the men’s reserves.

Love it how its all down to the ''coaches'' ... have a look at the U20s who the nix are claiming. most have been at the academy for all of 5 seconds. Their academy is doing well in terms of recruiting / and money :)

Looks like Charlotte Lancsater is playing in the NPL NSW comp for Bulls FC Acadamy. She got a goal on the weekend against Northern Tigers. Rebecca Lake with a full game for Tigers by the looks.
Also Kelli Brown with goal for Mcarthur Rams.
Good to see a few kiwis in this comp. There are probably more that I haven't noticed.

Anyone got any idea when coach and player signings might start?