National League review and future

Is that why Leggy was once an East Subs star?

"But darling, Auckland's just so passe."

I have already read a couple of articles saying NZF wants to introduce a promotion/relegation system. How would that work? Champions from Northern, Central, Mainland and Southern playing a playoff? And what would happen if a frachise gets relegated like let's say, Southern United, they fold? Start playing winter football? It doesn't sound really good to me

Er, both, obviously.

But seriously, ESAFC are Aryan and posh as fudge.

Masterton has an airport so away teams can  charter a flight in. Back in 2011 when Wairarapa won the Cup, Phil Keinzley pulled a master stroke informing Waitakere for their quarter final game that they needed to fly to Wellington and catch a bus over the Rimutakas which they duly did after leaving home at about 5am on game day

So after a hairy plane ride to Wellington and rough bus trip over the hills they arrived at Wairarapa's ground during a freezing southerly gale.

Then Wairarapa dished them out a hiding.

Ideally yes, then a more traditional 'big club' like Caversham or Dunedin Tech (or whoever) would re-emerge to give Otago someone to cheer for and something to cheer about...

i think Southern's a bit WaiBopish (WaiBoppely?)

Great at the flash indoor stadium though!

I mean no disrespect to any of them but I feel that there are some missing qualities on that list. Colin Stone is one I would have had involved somehow. He ran a very successful NCR for a long while. I would have had Rex in there as well as another person that ran an entity. I would have spoken to Bob Paterson whom has run numerous entities. Perhaps Seamus Martin or David Firisua who were both ex competitions at OFC. I would have had Bruce Holloway in there and absolutely Alan Jones.

The list is more glaring for the people missing and their expertise/experience in the NZ game rather than those chosen. What about outside football like a Duco/Lonergan/Higgins/Snedden type. What about Wayne Scurrah? There are smart types around outside of football that also bring the skill set. David Parker ex AFF...

I'm not sure what O'Leary brings to the panel other than a high level performer whom has a different set of eyes. Perhaps maybe that's why he was included - knows football but not from a club angle.

Who knows but it is an odd panel and very light with only 4.

All very well saying who should be on the panel, but in the end the true test is whether or not they did a good job. By and large the consensus is that they chose wisely. No one is saying that any of those missing out had a superior bid or anything. Certain to be disappointments but no great angst is there?

Hi Napier,

Compared with previous after announcements it has certainly been quiet (compared with the legal threats from Wests and East Auckland in 2004.)

But then we should take into account the reduced media scrutiny - I've not read a significant interview with an unsuccessful bid yet - and the time of year... stroke of brilliance to announce a week before Christmas - the equivalent of the Friday 5pm news dump. Certainly appears the Herald have nobody covering football at the moment.

Hi Jeff, I'd have no part of any panel that would have me as a member. :-) 

But the most knowledgable man around on national league from a historical perspective is Barry Smith (father of Jonathan Smith).

Auckland United not too happy

I've had a bit of a grizzle for what it's worth...

http://in-the-back-of-the.net/2015/12/18/opportunity-costs/

tl;dr : I'm taking my toys and going home just because.

Oh, I dunno. I think there are a couple of interesting points hidden in there. Yeah, It's a big whinge that things didn't go their way, but that doesn't mean some of their concerns don't have any validity.

I'm sure this isn't going to be a popular viewpoint but I don't think Auckland United deserve to be in the ASBP, despite the fact the region is crying out for representation.

They have had massive turnover of staff (on and off the field) and have failed in my opinion to link with clubs in their catchment.

They have been almost symbolically organised and while they can point fingers  if they had done their role well Suburbs would probably not have got a look in.

This isn't a dig at those who are involved at the moment as I think Hoani and Hone Fowler are great but they are two years late and had they been involved from day dot the outcome could have been different.

I recognise there were real flaws. As one example I have to admit my eyebrows were raised a little when I covered them last week and there were hardly any brown faces on the pitch. You have to walk the talk... But I think the solution was to get alongside them not let them fall over then start again from five steps back.

I agree but disagree, our national league is on the cusp of make or break with these new initiatives, it needs the best franchises there and I don't think Auckland United matched up to that. 

Don't forget this is not the first bid in this area of Auckland to fail, we have had East Auckland which served Uni Mt, Suburbs, Ellerslie, Fencibles and Bucklands Beach.  Then we had Auckland Manukau in the youth league.

It is a problem with lack of representation in those areas but if you look at the NRFL those areas are under represented at premier league level as well so maybe some work needs to go in there before the national league step.

I understand that but from what they are saying nobody was supporting them, pointing out where they were going wrong, telling them what they needed to improve on to get a license. It was just chuck a Youth League license at them for three years then see if they sink or swim. That's a phenomenal waste of time and resources that would have been better spent elsewhere if that's the way it was going to be. The situation in South Auckland with poorly resourced clubs in the lower NRFL divisions will only continue unless we work out a better way. You can't just wait for them to magically get money and start competing - you have to commit time and money to make it happen. It's a real pity because there will be some great talent in that region that we will never know we could have had.

I think none of it stacks up for a 'region thats under represented' case. Geographical perhaps but certainly not from a player representation point of view. Besides, how many teams actually have players from their catchment zone???

How many of the teams from that area are in NRFL Premier? Most teams from that catchment area tend to be of Indian ethnicity and from what I have seen, do not have the skills level or wherewithall to play at that level. I think if you want to at least be considered for the next level, you have to be in the highest level you are at in your regional catchment zone and thats not even close.

I don't think its harsh at all and actually am a bit surprised they even thought they had a shot.

Noel Robinson was involved. That's enough to tell you that it wasn't going to work

Totally agree..

Bit of a Mickey Mouse set up

Why would you have them in the ASB Youth League for three years if they haven't got a shot? If they never had a shot they shouldn't have been given that false hope and invited to waste hundreds of thousands of dollars traveling around the country competing in what was supposed to be a stepping stone. You can debate whether or not they took their chance but they had every right to feel like they had one and they now have a legitimate grievance in my view, as does Heartland Wairarapa for that matter.

that's kind of my point - let's not morn Auckland United, but let's use it to fuel some action at grassroots for more support for clubs like Manukau, OMU, Papatoetoe, Mangere etc etc.  This needs to be a NZF and Auckland Council driven thing to get more resources in this area, there are some talented raw kids in those areas who to be honest don't need a National League franchise yet, they need the basics first, like grounds, coaching etc.

This is roughly the locations of the clubs and the circle is South Auckland AKA where all the poor people live (well, the vast bulk).

Thanks, I see it now.

i know you said roughly but Centre park is just above the 20 sign, just where the motorway breaks towards the airport.

Yeah and E Subs is further to the right too. Rush job! :-)

How has Youth league got anything to do with the make up of the ASBP? If anything, Youth League is what you use for your representation (be it geographically, or by population) and provide those kids what little platform there is to be seen for the next level.

This is the premier competition in the country, not one where everyone has a turn because its nice to have a team from South Auckland which is pretty much Warriors territory. As I said before, pretty much most of the teams in that catchment area are not even Northern Prem so I don't get what value they add. They would either recruit outside their area making the argument of representation pointless or recruit from within and get thrashed. Hoane has been shown to be an ordinary coach at best thus far and if Hone Fowler is their marquee (playing for Manukau in Div 2?) I mean, really?? This has nothing to do with false hope, stepping stones or anything else UNLESS they can produce something from NZF that entry in the NYL would be a basis for consideration for the next level. 

They have no player base, no funds, a volunteer merry-go-round and Noel Robinson....On the face of it, their bid was not good enough and that was their chance, which they legitimately got. The end.

"How has Youth league got anything to do with the make up of the ASBP? If anything, Youth League is what you use for your representation (be it geographically, or by population) and provide those kids what little platform there is to be seen for the next level."

That's your take on the Youth League's purpose in life. It has other uses too and some of the Youth League franchises were led to believe that it was a trial to see if they could/should take on a full ASB Premiership franchise in the future. I think you'll find Nelson fell into this category.

"This is the premier competition in the country, not one where everyone has a turn because its nice to have a team from South Auckland which is pretty much Warriors territory. As I said before, pretty much most of the teams in that catchment area are not even Northern Prem so I don't get what value they add. They would either recruit outside their area making the argument of representation pointless or recruit from within and get thrashed."

Your words not mine. I'm not arguing they should have a license because they should get a turn and it's a nice thing to do. I'm arguing it because there is a big catchment of undeveloped potential going to waste. UNDEVELOPED. This is about growing the game outside the areas where it is currently strong. Obviously I wouldn't be arguing this if there was a team of ASB Premiership ready players just sitting there waiting for a team. The trade-off is between capitalising on what we already have and investing in growth. 

"Hoane has been shown to be an ordinary coach at best thus far and if Hone Fowler is their marquee (playing for Manukau in Div 2?) I mean, really??"

How do you know they would have been coach and marquee (do ASB Premiership teams even have marquee players)? Speculation on your part.

"This has nothing to do with false hope, stepping stones or anything else UNLESS they can produce something from NZF that entry in the NYL would be a basis for consideration for the next level. "

Unless you are on the review panel this is all just your opinion. Why can't a bid be aspirational? I think there is room for a balance. Maybe Auckland United didn't strike that balance. I haven't seen their bid. But if it's all about money and winning then there will never be a South Auckland team at a higher level than there is now because you have to put resources in to get them out and all those clubs are operating in a poor part of town on next to no money. If that's the way it is then that's the way it is but I think we will end up poorer for it. Just my opinion!

But clearly I can't use html to save my life. Oh well.

Yes there is a large number of poor people in some areas of South Auckland but there is also a truckload of rich people as well.  I suspect the main reason their bid failed was because it was very poor in comparison to others. I went to some events at Centre Park and nothing ever said to me that this is a NL club in waiting. And this remains the problem in many areas of NZ football.

You get an enthusiastic bunch of amateurs making a bit of noise saying " this is good for my area" but the reality is there is no substance to back it up. I'm sceptical about the pulling power of Eastern Suburbs but clearly they have done a great job in getting the right people involved, and that's the key.

I was responding to JV who said they never had a shot. The E-Subs bid was clearly more attractive to the committee. They all brought different strengths to the table and the decision surely came down to trade-offs. On the last part of your comment, that would depend on what I am getting in return for my investment. If I thought that investment of time and resources could result in a whole lot of kids taking up football instead of rugby in a place like South Auckland I'd consider that effort well spent. Clearly the panel thought either that isn't good use of resources or that the likelihood of it succeeding didn't outweigh the investment.

Take your point Enzo. While decisions in recent years haven't exactly supported my theory [Nix reserves and Under 20s] I wouldn't think the National League would be the right place to 'take a punt' on a South Auckland franchise. Youth League maybe but a new National League franchise should have a few runs on the board before entry, rather than a whole lot of potential.

Historically there have been some very strong South Auckland sides, Manurewa, Courier Rangers, Papatoetoe to name a couple. While the demographic has changed a bit, South Auckland has always been generally low decile. For South Auckland to get National status there needs to be a grouping of a number of well financed and performing clubs involved, not some old rumpty outfit like Mangere Town or whoever they aare.