Andy Martin - All you expect and less

how about "I respect your opinion but here is why I disagree?"

I think it allows anyone (not just the so called 'elite') to make a small banner if they so wish. There have been examples of this happening with various flags and some other banners. 

Most people would see a banner in the fever and say "there was a banner the yellow fever held up" but I think most would realise that it doesn't necessarily reflect everyone (just those holding it up - ie a portion of YF). 

There were kids in Christchurch who held up the (potential) new flag in the crowd. People would say "Phoenix fans held up the (potential) new flag" but would also be smart enough to realise that doesn't mean everyone in the crowd that day would be voting for the proposed new flag in the referendum. I see this as no different - just replace "crowd" with "yellow fever"

That moment when your trolling gets too obvious

In any case I think if this was put to the vote, that 95 per cent of the fever and this forum would say the banner is representative of them.

So bearing that in mind do we really give a fudge?

Martin out

Next game the banner I take in will read "Divisive sociopolitical statement goes here". That better, NP?

what about a banner that says "this is a tricky grey area"?

"generic statement that nobody could possibly disagree with or be offended by"

I find your issue of the word "nobody" to be offensive to the hyperdimensional space elves, because they exist as pure energy and  don't have bodies

THAT was point 3. After ranting in point 2 I forgot the third one.

Yawn

I take your point but I respectfully disagree.

Maybe if you engage in adult discussion instead of just trying to stir the pot you might be a little less bored in the discussions.

That comment is just laughable; an adult could quite easily have taken the original point I raised and enlarged on it. Some people have done totally and others have not done so at all. There are a couple there who have partly engaged intelligently but then gone off track a little and lost the plot so to speak.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that because someone has a contrary view, that they are stirring the pot. If you don't have a view either way on the issue, keep quiet, if you do, then, please engage in intelligent discussion, don't try and score petty points with amusing repartee and personal attacks and expect not to get a reaction. I think some of the regular posters here are absolute wankers and I'm sure there are those that think the same of me, but at least try and contribute to the forum in a meaningful way and if you feel strongly enough about a contrary view to your - then be enough of a man to engage intelligently. Hard for some, maybe impossible, but don't expect me [and others] to blindly accept what you or the club say and do without us putting our views across.

You said that NZF has no relevance to the club, but haven't responded to people pointing out that NZF's incompetence cost us a potentially key signing, let alone just the general issues with the organisation which, as football players and fans in this country, do affect the Fever. You also made a statement about boys playing with matches, implying that there's some possible negative repercussions which could come out of the banner. Could you just elaborate a bit more on why you think the banner was inappropriate, and what you think the negative impact of the banner being associated with the Fever is?

For the record, I agree that some people would see a banner in the Fever zone and think it represents the whole Fever. But in this case I don't see what the problem with it is. For a start, opinion on here is overwhelmingly anti-Martin, so it does represent the general mood.  Which leaves us with why we shouldn't express that in a public way which may be linked to the Fever. 

I'm genuinely interested to know why you think a banner expressing displeasure at the national body after they have made mistake after mistake and been unrepentant about it is such a bad thing. Because obviously you concerns are specific to this banner. You didn't complain about anti-FFA banners earlier in the season.

Ok so please explain how NZF and as such the person who runs it has nothing to do with the Phoenix.

How did the NZF costing them the signing have nothing to do with them?

In other words, if the signings had to be finished off by NZF then clearly they are a very big part of the system and them being competent is crucial to the Nix on the most basic level, getting players.

So tell me, how does them being important to the Phoenix and their ability to sign mean they have nothing to do with the Phoenix?  

Also people addressed your comments and your next post was "yawn".  If you want other to engage in intelligent discussion, you shouldn't suggest that right after your contribution of "yawn".

Please explain to me, how is "yawn" an intelligent contribution to the conversation as I clearly don't understand.

Well said !

I miss Andy Martin.

Anyone playing the game as a registered player or as a referee might do well to have a look at he NZ Football  code of conduct.

I has better respect your post and respond intelligently

"yawn"

Pot kettle 

Even if NZF really wanted to pull the trigger on that one I doubt they would do it to the Yellow Fever as a whole. For a start, imagine the backlash - banning potentially scores of players because a few guys who use the same website or sit in the same section of the stadium held up a banner. So if anyone is going to get banned they would have to identify the individuals holding up the banner and ban them. Even then, the banner is ambiguous and we are only assuming it means Andy Martin. Maybe the guys who made it find Martin Devlin really annoying and want him off the radio?

I'm not going to labour on this any more than this post. Thank you because now we have received a level of discussion/explanation in answer to my original question. It took some time but I accept your views even though I don't necessarily agree with all of it.

Yes there was a degree of pot calling the kettle black in my 'yawn' posting but it was simply the use of internet message board vernacular to indicate I was hearing the same old piffle from the same old people. It is often used on here and I will most likely continue to use it when I think such use is warranted.

Just to touch on the 'playing with matches' analogy, you would hope that Martin would be a better man but it would be quite understandable that if there was ever a line call involving the Nix and NZF, that Martin might not support the Nix. That is the type of risk you run with such banner displays - its a simple matter of risk management. The FFA situation was  a little different given that they had essentially cut us loose and were being openly hostile to us. No matter what you think about NZF incompetence, it would be hard to describe them as antagonistic towards the club and a little bit of thought before blindly displaying banners of this nature. Even though some of you don't think it shows Yellow Fever in a bad light, all it takes is one person in a position of power to think it does and there is potential for a bad outcome for the club. The fact that 2 of the more intelligent members of this board think it could easily be construed as being officially sanctioned by YF, shows that there are likely to be others that think the same.

Thanks for the response NP.

I guess my thought is that if Martin's attitude towards the Nix can be swayed by banners the fans hold up then that's even more reason to want him gone.

I also think that within a NZ media environment there is very little that can be done by fans of the game to publicly express displeasure at the way it is run. The last few years have seen a string of things happen which had negatively affected the game: the eligibility saga made us a laughing stock and cost one of our most talented generations of footballers the chance to play at the Olympics, along with all the related exposure that would have brought. The AWs continue to not get meaningful games and may even be turning down offers from the hosts of the next WC. The only professional club in the country couldn't sign a new striker because NZF fudged up the paperwork somehow. And after all this the CEO himself says these were minor errors.

Fans deserved better. Our U23s and national team deserved better. The Phoenix deserve better. We shouldn't be afraid of making a point about this because he might hold a grudge against the Nix in the future. He will probably oversee some fudgeup for the club anyway, if past experience is a guide. I hope the paperwork for the Nix A League exemption isn't too complicated

Guys - can we reframe from name calling please.

Right.  It's come to this.  I have had to actually mod things.  This impacts my forum retirement and more importantly my own personal zen.

Please show respect to each other or I will start banning and close this thread.

This is not a discussion point.

Love

News.

...or refrain even.

Do we have to show respect to Andy Martin?

I couldn't comment as it might be construed as the official Fever view.

(see I can play this game as well)

This thread has more metrics than the AW's road to russia thread. There's our problem, right there.

And Hudson is Napier Phoenix  (talks a good game but full of shark)

Junior is Tommy Smith (can't be fudgeed showing up anymore)

and Hard News is Andy Martin (A position of power but does fudge all and always on holiday), 

Christ we are fudgeed

I'm 55 so don't give a fudge if they ban me from ever playing again. And yes, Martin Devlin is really annoying. I knew him for some years, he hasn't changed at all.

Even if you believe that it would only be appropriate to show this banner at an All Whites game rather than a Nix club game (which incidentally I don't), that is not really an option at the moment. It's entirely possible that by the next time the All Whites play in Wellington Andy Martin may no longer be the CEO (and those two occurrences may not be unrelated either). 

agree and ftfy

Ridiculous scaremongering. Are you seriously suggesting that NZF might "take revenge" on YF or the Nix because a banner held up at a Phoenix game hit too close to the mark?

That would be a national scandal resulting in loads of press. 

It would be unprecendented for a football national body to treat its fans in such a manner (feel free to post evidence of it happening; I'm curious ...)

This is a democracy, not a dictatorship.

People can criticise whoever they like without fear.

Martin is supposed to represent us, the fans and players of football.

A national football game is the best place to make our displeasure known.

I'd be interested in their ability to actually enforce that - i.e. you can't criticise anything, surely that is against some sort of law about protests, or freedom of speech, or disclosure. I mean its not as if people are making stuff up.

There are lawyers here I know, so I'd be interested to hear their thoughts.

Otherwise I'm not registered - I lost vision in one of my eyes years ago and I don't have the depth perception for ball sports anymore, quite a few people here no longer play and can take the blame from NZF if it comes to that.

Sorry, you appear to be very naive. You would never know whether it happened or not would you? they would be very unlikely to admit it. Do you know how some people think? I'm not accusing Martin of any such thing but it is a possibility if he were so inclined. Bevan, you do realise that football administration, worldwide, has a chequered history don't you?

Napier Phoenix. Are you saying you support Andy Martin and all his work done at NZF?

That's a simple one, I am sure you can answer it and not dodge it.

I wouldn't worry it's likely they don't even know what's in there.

It was only a second hand banner any way. So why the fuss- Banner was down before players and officials came out onto field.

Polite request was responded too.

TWvHBU - I see may have caused the loss that day for TW, which sent on to take the Cup from Mr Martin?

I'm ambivalent towards him but that was never the point of my original post.

How often are you physically in the zone NP?

Never, it is not the way I like to watch football

ok so you are never in the zone and don't care about Martin.