ACFC U17 tourney

That's 3 years in a row Birkenhead have won ACFC U17s and 2 of last 3 years won Napier U19s.

That's some record in youth football.

I would imagine its based on the idea that tournaments are a terrible idea physically, where young players bodies are at significant risk of over-use injury?

As opposed to schools flogging their players several days a week irrespective of what training the boys are already undertaking at their clubs.

That's one of the sound pieces of logic behind why the optimal model is young players playing in one place, with a consistent set of high quality coaches, and that the current NZF Club/School/FTC model is a terrible idea for player development and wellbeing, yes.

so this all begs the question - who has overall responsibility for youth player development within NZ football- Schools; Clubs or Federation FTC / NTC.

With so many conflicting interests it will always be very difficult  to develop a well coordinate plan for youth players

I would suggest it is the clubs.

(Secondary) schools receive the players pretty much already formed in style and their primary goal seems to be filling trophy cabinets - not player development.

Again with FTC and NTC by the time they are having first contact the players already have a fundamental skill base and style. From what I have seen they also tend to indulge a style of football at later youth level that doesn't serve players well who want to progress to senior football - i.e. dwelling on the ball far too long.

I see little evidence that the clubs are technically competent or resourced to genuinely develop players. I am not trying to dismiss the contribution of well-meaning mums & dads (i am one, after all), but entrusting player development to people who haven't played in a decade or more, and have done a course or two once a season is very naive, but i suppose the reality of the current funding models.

Agree fundamentally about schools; they are too focused on winning to be of use.

FTC/NTC- preserves the current broken model that a player has a different coach 4 days a week- it is a terrible approach.

The private academies to seem to be genuinely the only wrap-around opportunities for holistic player development in NZ - thing is they are expensive. 

another question to ponder - with the nzu17 boys pulled out of the weekends tournament for what ever reason- too much football and risk of overuse and risk of injury etc, what is danny going to do at the nation secondary school tournament which is a month or so before the World Cup. Rest his school players or full the trophy cabinet.

No question he will fill the trophy cabinet or should NZ football step in and rest the players as they are investing the $$s to get the team to India

Pretty sure his school KPIs will require some silverware being brought home.

S

All the kids at his school and Saint kents that went to Chile played in school nationals a few weeks before 

Were there some last minute team changes?  I'm sure I saw Eastern Suburbs and not Ellerslie in original draw

Eastern Suburbs dropped out a few days b4 tourney

apparently 8-10 of the Eastern Suburbs squad were not eligible due to late transfers. All club transfers needed to be requested before the 1st March. Understand this has upset many at the club.

apparently 8-10 of the Eastern Suburbs squad were not eligible due to late transfers. All club transfers needed to be requested before the 1st March. Understand this has upset many at the club.

Hope the school teams heading to Nationals have as many of the U17 boys as possible. It shouldnt be easy to win anything. SI Teams will spend a fortune going up and want to play the best of the Lads. Top Competition will help develop everyone. The School Teams will be made up of players aged between 15 and 18 which result in some great competitive games, federations should emulate this age bracket on a saturday. Christchurch Schools football was the strongest competion in Town last year for the boys in that age band thanks too Stroudy. Saturday comps provided 4 strong games out of approx 16 for the season. 

What? That someone couldn't read the rules properly?

The School Comp should be treated to the same level of respect as shown to last weeks ACFC... Failure to do so would be utterly unacceptable and a complete slap in the chops to the ACFC group. It would surely lead to some hard questions being asked of the NZF Coachs who will take Sides to the School Comp. 

It also begs the question that if these kinds of tournaments are 'bad' for youth footballers why are we playing them? If it's bad for a NZ U17 rep surely it's bad for a CTFC player? 

Yes I agree these types of competitions / tournaments should have the best available players. 

Specific to Chch Saturday football a return to 'Super Youth' League would be well overdue. However this requires the Clubs to agree to put the right players in the same grade. Last years shambles of 19's and 17's D1 being dross or 4/16 as you accurately describe is hardly the fault of Mainland Football when the Clubs do whatever they feel like regardless of the rules and guidelines set out. 

CTFC simply ignored the player clearance and played whoever they wanted in 19's which surely led to the 17's not even fielding a starting XI. FC2011 did follow the process but when certain clearances were denied pretty much played them anyway. Coastal and Halswell also followed process so played 17's without entering a 19's team. Another side in the 17's fielded a player the entire season who was  named on the Mainland website as "not allowed to play 17's"!!! 

The Wedensday School First XI comp while at least having the potential to have "the best with the best" was still a very mediocre competition. I think a club based approach to 15-18 years players would be far more successful for both development and competition. Possibly even better would be to have a combined Chch club 22 player squad competing in Auckland each week.... Pipe dream I know...

Hopefully this season is better. 

Someone had to continue the Proud Tradition of Aucland clubs + transfer clearance + player eligibilty = Youth Football Tournament.

Nike Cup anyone? 

Interesting as well how Danny Boy was happy for the 17's the play NAGT in Wellington only a few months before the OFC quals as well. Funny also that Onehunga ignored his wishes and still had a 17's keeper play the whole tourney and brought Max in for finals day (not that it helped much). 

Great to see Springs and Birko in yet another final and still stand head and shoulders in my opinion above the others for youth development and bringing youth through into senior football. Developing players with heart, grit and determination, rather than entitled prima donnas who expect to win and throw a tantrum when they don't. 

Need to also give further credit to Hobbo at Birko and his achievements these last few years. Constantly in finals or winning at 17's and 19's level and now those players coming through and making a difference with their first Chatham Cup last year. Shame the 17's organisers didn't make more of the fact it was their 3rd in a row. Won't be long before the powers that be come knocking on his door to coach at national level.   

Yep nice to see Springs & Birko at the pointy end of another youth tournament but are they genuinely developing these youth players or are they just better at persuading everyone else's talent that they are the place to be for whatever reason?

How many were guest players in these squads (I have been told the key boys up front for Birko were from Fencibles and Ellerslie??, Whilst in 2016 it was 2 boys from Melville, Waibop) and beyond the guest players how many in these 2 squads have been at these respective clubs for more than two seasons?

Classic Onehunga pot-stirring.

One mans pot is another mans weed. Sounded like a legitimate question to me.

How's that? Tournament winner not decided on which team has most home-grown players or least guest players.

Rules allow each team 2 guest players - up to the clubs if they choose to use guests.

Two boys from Melville, one who's now at Birko after finishing school and one who was at Birko previously.

Agreed 100%, tournament success is to be congratulated and I don't believe there was any question or slight as to the legitimacy of these to clubs to contest the final and their success!

But to suggest this achievement it is founded on outstanding youth development programmes doesn't reconcile with what I'm told and understand from watching on the sidelines. If the assertion was how wonderful their youth scouting and attraction programmes are, they would be inline for congratulations in that regard also!

The debate about what constitutes player development is an interesting philosophical one and nowhere near as simplistic as it might seem. I've seen players come into a club at 16 and develop more in one season at their new club than in five at their previous club because of opportunities they are given and coaching they are offered. Other players develop evenly from a very young age and require a consistant and stable program in place to achieve their success.

My experience is that a lot of movement in teen football is actually player and parent driven. Yes, clubs do attract talent, but that is often because they are producing talent and winning significant competitions - both at youth and senior level. The best and most successful clubs achieve a balance between bringing players through the ranks and constantly supplementing these numbers with fresh talent.

I think trying to suggest that Birkenhead's success is not founded on their player development programmes does a disservice to the club and the fifteen years that Paul Hobson has been running their youth programme.

At least four of the Birkenhead squad at the U17 tournament had been with the club since their very first day of football as midget players and several others in that team had been there since they were in their early teens or before.