New Zealand U-23s - Quali Whites

Hard News

MetalLegNZ

Tim Payne??

 Yes. Interesting maths if he manages to count as Under-23 at 27.

I mentioned him as I’ve seen him talked about as an overage player for the tournament. Similar to how 29yo Chris Wood and 32yo Winston Reid have been mentioned in people’s prospective squads. If you are going to take someone to the Olympics it wouldn’t make much sense to tell them not to come to the final camp before it, especially when his teammates are already there.

MetalLegNZ

Tim Payne??

Tim Payne is the Boxall we can get, comfortable at right back (where we don't have any outstanding options) alternatively a decent centre back partner for Reid. 

The MLS season kicks off late june so Boxy won't be available.

Maaaaaaatt

MetalLegNZ

Tim Payne??

Tim Payne is the Boxall we can get, comfortable at right back (where we don't have any outstanding options) alternatively a decent centre back partner for Reid. 

The MLS season kicks off late june so Boxy won't be available.

If two of Reid (busy trialling for a club somewhere), Boxall, or Tuiloma (MLS mid season) were unavailable - I'd like to see Kirwan picked as an overage player.

The AWs RB spot still looks a problem area, and based on his club career over last 12 months Kirwan deserves a go. But Hay is fast running out of quality opportunities to experiment before those June 2022 interconinental playoffs. These Olympics are basically now his Confeds Cup as far as prep goes.

He will already know his first choice CB pairing for those games. If both fit it's Boxall & Reid. Followed by Tuiloma & then Smith/Payne. Easy, and he will know all of these players well enough already. Really he probably already has 6-7 spots in a full strength starting 11, nailed down for June next year. Reid, Boxall, Cacace, Thomas, Bell, Singh, Wood.

But RB still remains the most problematic spot, and don't think Hay has seen Kirwan up close since he left for Italy. Plus handy in a 18 man squad that he can cover both RB & LB.

carlind

The pre-squad camp started today, and I believe the following players were all there:
Alex Grieve

Alex Paulsen

Ben Old

Cam Brown

Campbell Strong

Clayton Lewis

Dane Ingham

Dane Schnell

James McGarry

Kalvin Kalua

Regan Diver

Sam Sutton

Sarpreet Singh 

Yousif al Khalisy

That’s not an exhaustive list though I believe. The coaches there were Hay, Bazeley, Kane Wintersgill and Ruben Parker. For what it’s worth, some players that weren’t there are: Elliot (in MIQ), J-H Sinclair, van den Hoven, Tim Payne, Conor Tracey, Cacace, Bevan, Stensness, Just, McCowatt, Woud

So of that above list, only Lewis, Ingham, Singh, Mcgarry & Sutton are a strong chance going as part of the 22 (18 man squad + 4 reserves) for Japan. Plus Brown or Paulsen as backup GK to Woud, if it ain't Jamie Searle at Swansea. I imagine Rory as a youth coach at the Swans will be giving some feedback on where Searle is at. You'd also think Waine, Stensness, Champness & Elliott would join an Auckland camp. 

Still agrue that some sort of Euro camp, over the recent 2-3 week FIFA window, with the 15-20 players based there, plus 3 MLS guys & Billingsley was an opportunity missed. 

My best guess is:
Woud
Poulsen (but could be anyone really)

Ingham
Boxall
Pijnaker
Reid (Payne if not released)
Cacace
McGarry (I'd go with Sutton)

Bell
Lewis
Singh
Stamenic (though based on their respective TW appearances I'd go with Whyte)
Stensness

Champness
Just
Mccowatt
Waine
Wood 

McGarry or Sutton, who offers the greater versatility for the squad. Neither will start ahead of Cacace, so where else can they add depth that might be needed?

What's Thomas's injury situation like?

Ryan

What's Thomas's injury situation like?

Had surgery back in April. Has been ruled out of going to Tokyo.
https://twitter.com/psv/status/1380423795924668417

Hopefully recovery time is much shorter than his last serious knee injury. PSV start preseason in 3 weeks. New Eredivisie season starts in 2 months.
https://www.psv.nl/english-psv/news/article/psv-run-training-camp-in-germany.htm

Olympic opposition Sth Korea U23 beat Ghana U23, again. This time 2-1 in a friendly.

Interesting camp in Auckland, I think goalkeepers going will be Woud, Searle & Paulson as backup. Must be taking the professional players to a tournament like this, not amateur local players. 

CB wise we are a bit underdone. You’d hope you can lure Michael Boxall & Winston Reid into the mixer with a young player like Zweetslot who is from professional pedigree. He’s rumoured to be negotiating with an a-league team currently. Tim Payne could also be a good option?

Midfielders & Strikers we are very heavy with, take your pick. Highly doubt Singh goes along but with Joe Bell, Lewis etc all fit and ready to go you just need wood and Callum/Elijah to seal the deal. Wood will be prolific against young teams and with Hay’s Burnley connection I’m sure it won’t be too hard. 

Great to see Kane in the mixer with the team, come along way & matured a lot from watching the NR season so far, think he’s a hardworking guy who knows where he wants to go. Danny wouldn’t take an idiot if he was one would he? 

Think this team goes through to the semis personally. 

FCAuckland

Interesting camp in Auckland, I think goalkeepers going will be Woud, Searle & Paulson as backup. Must be taking the professional players to a tournament like this, not amateur local players. 

CB wise we are a bit underdone. You’d hope you can lure Michael Boxall & Winston Reid into the mixer with a young player like Zweetslot who is from professional pedigree. He’s rumoured to be negotiating with an a-league team currently. Tim Payne could also be a good option?

Midfielders & Strikers we are very heavy with, take your pick. Highly doubt Singh goes along but with Joe Bell, Lewis etc all fit and ready to go you just need wood and Callum/Elijah to seal the deal. Wood will be prolific against young teams and with Hay’s Burnley connection I’m sure it won’t be too hard. 

Great to see Kane in the mixer with the team, come along way & matured a lot from watching the NR season so far, think he’s a hardworking guy who knows where he wants to go. Danny wouldn’t take an idiot if he was one would he? 

Think this team goes through to the semis personally. 

wondering why you don't think Singh will be selected? he's fit and at the Auckland camp.

Pijnaker's our best U23 shout for a CB spot, though Zwetsloot has been excellent this season.

Match fitness-wise he’s not in my opinion. 

If he’s going on loan next season he will need to be there to fight for a spot 

FCAuckland

Match fitness-wise he’s not in my opinion. 

If he’s going on loan next season he will need to be there to fight for a spot 

There is also a reasonable chance Bayern will look to sell him on in the coming Euro summer window (finishes 31st August) to get some return on their initial investment. That's if they don't see him having a longer term future at the club.

So having him play at the Olympics, gives everyone a little marketing shop window, to see him in action.

FCAuckland

Match fitness-wise he’s not in my opinion. 

If he’s going on loan next season he will need to be there to fight for a spot 

He's 100% fit - been playing regular football, and playing very well at that, in the German 3rd tier.

Wires crossed here, I’m talking about Nando being not match fit (not even played 2 full games?) & for sure Sarpreet is, but he needs to be at a club pre-season I’m hearing. 

FCAuckland

Wires crossed here, I’m talking about Nando being not match fit (not even played 2 full games?) & for sure Sarpreet is, but he needs to be at a club pre-season I’m hearing. 

oh, gotcha. In that case, Nando's been playing week-in-week-out in the Portuguese 4th tier - fitness definitely there, competition not so. Still, making the top-tier bench many times at the expense of the club's other Portuguese prospects speaks volumes

A little strange that Singh's returned to NZ twice in 6 months. That's a total of 4 weeks stuck in MIQ, where would be tricky to keep your fitness levels up. Especially if he now has to head back to Europe to start pre season, at Bayern or some new club. Family related reasons I guess.

But yet again this is why a 10 day camp in Europe over the last FIFA break, would have been better. Likely that some of the big guns will only arrive in Tokyo at the last minute, giving Hay a disrupted build up.

FCAuckland

Interesting camp in Auckland, I think goalkeepers going will be Woud, Searle & Paulson as backup. Must be taking the professional players to a tournament like this, not amateur local players. 

CB wise we are a bit underdone. You’d hope you can lure Michael Boxall & Winston Reid into the mixer with a young player like Zweetslot who is from professional pedigree. He’s rumoured to be negotiating with an a-league team currently. Tim Payne could also be a good option?

Midfielders & Strikers we are very heavy with, take your pick. Highly doubt Singh goes along but with Joe Bell, Lewis etc all fit and ready to go you just need wood and Callum/Elijah to seal the deal. Wood will be prolific against young teams and with Hay’s Burnley connection I’m sure it won’t be too hard. 

Great to see Kane in the mixer with the team, come along way & matured a lot from watching the NR season so far, think he’s a hardworking guy who knows where he wants to go. Danny wouldn’t take an idiot if he was one would he? 

Think this team goes through to the semis personally. 

coochiee

A little strange that Singh's returned to NZ twice in 6 months. That's a total of 4 weeks stuck in MIQ, where would be tricky to keep your fitness levels up. Especially if he now has to head back to Europe to start pre season, at Bayern or some new club. Family related reasons I guess.

But yet again this is why a 10 day camp in Europe over the last FIFA break, would have been better. Likely that some of the big guns will only arrive in Tokyo at the last minute, giving Hay a disrupted build up.

I'd love to see Kane upfront! I wouldn't tackle him, no sireebob.....

kane.jpeg 8.35 KB

Europe camp would’ve been the best I think. Never know what goes on in the background. 

Tim Payne could go to the olympics as a right back but also as a CB should he be needed? Don’t think that’s a bad idea all things considered. 

Obviously you’d need to get rid of winny/boxy but thinking outside the box & the Tim Payne/ Hay relationship you could see it happening. 

Stensness can play CB but is wasted there.  He's got too much of a brain, technical skillset and mobility for that position, but could easily fill in, as he did in the U20 WC.
Stensness in my view would be best utilised as a defensive and/or box to box midfielder.
Re the formation and the midfield:  I guess the Gaffer will go for a 433, so I'm wondering about some of the posts here that talk about 2 midfielders as if we are likely to get a 4231 or 442.
Certainly Ryan Thomas is quality and hopefully he will be in the mix.  If it's a 433 then his attacking nous is probably best utilised as a winger.
Bell too, likes to get forward and was allowed that roaming roll in the U20 WC.
I think Stensness, because of his strength and covering ability (as seen in this year's A-League) is best suited to the spine role in the middle of the three, with Singh further forward.
'Just mo.

Thomas won't play at the Olympics. I'd say our lineup would be 

Woud 
Billingsley Boxall Reid Cacace 
Bell Stensness 
Singh 
Waine Wood McCowatt 

McCowatt, Waine, and Wood have all been played as strikers in the previous season though, so working them all into a front three will be interesting. 

BrockieTheGOAT

Thomas won't play at the Olympics. I'd say our lineup would be 

Woud 
Billingsley Boxall Reid Cacace 
Bell Stensness 
Singh 
Waine Wood McCowatt 

McCowatt, Waine, and Wood have all been played as strikers in the previous season though, so working them all into a front three will be interesting. 

Yep, sorry.  I hadn't seen the earlier posy about Thomas being out.  For me, that's our biggest loss.
I agree with the above though think Just might be favoured over Waine.

BrockieTheGOAT

Thomas won't play at the Olympics. I'd say our lineup would be 

Woud 
Billingsley Boxall Reid Cacace 
Bell Stensness 
Singh 
Waine Wood McCowatt 

McCowatt, Waine, and Wood have all been played as strikers in the previous season though, so working them all into a front three will be interesting. 

Yep, sorry.  I hadn't seen the earlier post about Thomas being out.  For me, that's our biggest loss.
I agree with the above though think Just might be favoured over Waine.

BrockieTheGOAT

Thomas won't play at the Olympics. I'd say our lineup would be 

Woud 
Billingsley Boxall Reid Cacace 
Bell Stensness 
Singh 
Waine Wood McCowatt 

McCowatt, Waine, and Wood have all been played as strikers in the previous season though, so working them all into a front three will be interesting. 

Yipe that would a pretty sound team if both overage CBs get to Tokyo. Though left footed Lewis & Just, will both go close to being in the starting lineup. There have also been some hints that Hay is a big fan of Stamenic.

Wood will be a real handful for young U24 defenders, no matter where they are from. The team's chances of getting out of the group & beyond, will massively depend on both his availability, and how he gels with a bunch of talented young Kiwis that he's barely played with before.

COnst

BrockieTheGOAT

Thomas won't play at the Olympics. I'd say our lineup would be 

Woud 
Billingsley Boxall Reid Cacace 
Bell Stensness 
Singh 
Waine Wood McCowatt 

McCowatt, Waine, and Wood have all been played as strikers in the previous season though, so working them all into a front three will be interesting. 

Yep, sorry.  I hadn't seen the earlier posy about Thomas being out.  For me, that's our biggest loss.
I agree with the above though think Just might be favoured over Waine.

BrockieTheGOAT

Thomas won't play at the Olympics. I'd say our lineup would be 

Woud 
Billingsley Boxall Reid Cacace 
Bell Stensness 
Singh 
Waine Wood McCowatt 

McCowatt, Waine, and Wood have all been played as strikers in the previous season though, so working them all into a front three will be interesting. 

Yep, sorry.  I hadn't seen the earlier post about Thomas being out.  For me, that's our biggest loss.
I agree with the above though think Just might be favoured over Waine.

Thomas would be the best New Zealand player technically, but the drop off from him to the U23 midfield options is less so than Wood to the U23 striker options.

Hay will play a 4-2-3-1, similar to Des, and unlike Ufuk’s 4-2-2-2, so Waine should do a lot better as a wide option there than at the Phoenix, where that position is more defensive. At the U20 World Cup Waine played as the RW with McCowatt as the CF, and Just as the LW as traditional wingers. Callum has experience in Hay’s system as the LW, so could be likely to play there with Wood in the middle, a la the RoI game. I believe Just is left footed, so it’ll depend whether he wants the wingers inverted or not which side they play on. 

I wouldn't be surprised if Ingham starts over Billingsley, Lewis over Stensness. Champness wouldn't be a bad starting player either, though he'll be very new to the setup. I guess quite likely to see some squad rotation given there's not much between a lot of the full strength starting 11 and the bench players 

BrockieTheGOAT

I wouldn't be surprised if Ingham starts over Billingsley, Lewis over Stensness. Champness wouldn't be a bad starting player either, though he'll be very new to the setup. I guess quite likely to see some squad rotation given there's not much between a lot of the full strength starting 11 and the bench players 

Yes Champness showed good form across the season.  He's a package to handle.

coochiee

A little strange that Singh's returned to NZ twice in 6 months. That's a total of 4 weeks stuck in MIQ, where would be tricky to keep your fitness levels up. Especially if he now has to head back to Europe to start pre season, at Bayern or some new club. Family related reasons I guess.

But yet again this is why a 10 day camp in Europe over the last FIFA break, would have been better. Likely that some of the big guns will only arrive in Tokyo at the last minute, giving Hay a disrupted build up.

I wholeheartedly agree.  

Aussies and kiwis are perfectly fine in the UK, no prison stay required and would it be easy for Hay to also work with some senior AW players as well.  I'm sure NZ could have easily organised some decent behind closed door fixtures too.  

COnst

BrockieTheGOAT

Thomas won't play at the Olympics. I'd say our lineup would be 

Woud 
Billingsley Boxall Reid Cacace 
Bell Stensness 
Singh 
Waine Wood McCowatt 

McCowatt, Waine, and Wood have all been played as strikers in the previous season though, so working them all into a front three will be interesting. 

Yep, sorry.  I hadn't seen the earlier posy about Thomas being out.  For me, that's our biggest loss.
I agree with the above though think Just might be favoured over Waine.

BrockieTheGOAT

Thomas won't play at the Olympics. I'd say our lineup would be 

Woud 
Billingsley Boxall Reid Cacace 
Bell Stensness 
Singh 
Waine Wood McCowatt 

McCowatt, Waine, and Wood have all been played as strikers in the previous season though, so working them all into a front three will be interesting. 

Yep, sorry.  I hadn't seen the earlier post about Thomas being out.  For me, that's our biggest loss.
I agree with the above though think Just might be favoured over Waine.

I hope Hay puts his sentimentalities aside and plays our fittest, in form players, meaning McCowatt and Just bench warming behind Wood and Waine.  I'd have Lewis starting in the place of McCowatt with Lewis in a central mid position with Bell, Gianni playing more of a DM role and Singh as a Devila.

                             Woud
Billinsgsly  Over Age   Over Age  Cacace
                        Stensness
              Bell                           Lewis
                           Singh
                    Wayne    Wood

2ndBest

My best guess is:
Woud
Poulsen (but could be anyone really)

Ingham
Boxall
Pijnaker
Reid (Payne if not released)
Cacace
McGarry (I'd go with Sutton)

Bell
Lewis
Singh
Stamenic (though based on their respective TW appearances I'd go with Whyte)
Stensness

Champness
Just
Mccowatt
Waine
Wood 

Woud
Searle

Ingham
Billingsley
Cacace
Reid
Stanger
Pijnaker

Bell
Stenseness
Lewis
Scimia
Singh
Just
Champness

Wood
Waine
McCowatt

I think the McCowatt/Waine debate is quite close, but I’d lean towards Callum, but I’m very biased towards him. Helsingør did quite well after the winter break in the promotion round of the Danish 1st division, with both Callum and Just scoring a few goals, and I think the leagues are quite comparable (especially the top 6), and the Danish Superliga is definitely better than the A League. Waine was also outperforming his xG in the A League, but that has to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Also, talking to my brother who’s in the Auckland camp, apparently Myer Bevan has been the best striker there, better than Waine and any others there, so he might not be out of the picture either. Obviously he had a bad time in South Africa, but was injured for 6 weeks in training after crashing into a post and just fell out of favour. He was top scorer in 2019/20 national league and has bagged goals in the qualifiers as well, he hasn’t played under Hay before, but he was part of Bazeley’s U20s in 2017.

carlind

I think the McCowatt/Waine debate is quite close, but I’d lean towards Callum, but I’m very biased towards him. Helsingør did quite well after the winter break in the promotion round of the Danish 1st division, with both Callum and Just scoring a few goals, and I think the leagues are quite comparable (especially the top 6), and the Danish Superliga is definitely better than the A League. Waine was also outperforming his xG in the A League, but that has to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Also, talking to my brother who’s in the Auckland camp, apparently Myer Bevan has been the best striker there, better than Waine and any others there, so he might not be out of the picture either. Obviously he had a bad time in South Africa, but was injured for 6 weeks in training after crashing into a post and just fell out of favour. He was top scorer in 2019/20 national league and has bagged goals in the qualifiers as well, he hasn’t played under Hay before, but he was part of Bazeley’s U20s in 2017.

Bevan is unproven at a decent level.  Is your brother sure he's not just a flat track bully... or... hi Bevan's brother.

My preferred XI I reckon, if Boxall can't make it because of the MLS season then Payne is probably the best replacement since he also covers CB/RB. No specific full-back cover because Boxall can play RB and apparently Stanger can play LB (although he is right footed).

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My squad:

Woud
Searle

Billingsley
Cacace
Boxall
Reid
Stanger
Pijnaker
McGarry

Bell
Stensness
Lewis
Singh
Just

Champness
Wood
Waine
McCowatt 

Standby:
Bevan
Ingham
Payne

If we take Reid/Boxall as overage players, I doubt we take both Stanger and Pijnaker. 4 CBS in an 18 man squad is a bit heavy, one of them maybe gets to go as a on call player.

Friar Tuck

My preferred XI I reckon, if Boxall can't make it because of the MLS season then Payne is probably the best replacement since he also covers CB/RB. No specific full-back cover because Boxall can play RB and apparently Stanger can play LB (although he is right footed).

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I forgot about Stamenic - I'd bracket him with Lewis and Scimia in my squad, two of those three go to Japan.

Assuming the Olympics is even going to go ahead, which still seems up in the air to me.....

The olympics is 100 percent going ahead, there are teams here already.   it just comes down to if people are allowed to watch it.

2ndBest

My best guess is:
Woud
Poulsen (but could be anyone really)

Ingham
Boxall
Pijnaker
Reid (Payne if not released)
Cacace
McGarry (I'd go with Sutton)

Bell
Lewis
Singh
Stamenic (though based on their respective TW appearances I'd go with Whyte)
Stensness

Champness
Just
Mccowatt
Waine
Wood 

I can't see Stamenic, for all his quality, getting ahead of Stensness, who offers a very powerful physical edge as well as technical ability, though they could both go given .   I guess, notwithstanding the personal preferences and politics, Gaffer Hay will see the difference in the training sessions, which is what they are all about.

FYI - sounds like Arnold is struggling to get some Olyroos players released by their Euro clubs for Tokyo. Both U24 & over age.

Maybe not neccessarily a given that say for example S-T will agree to let Cacace go. Belgian league starts 26th July, and they obviously had a pretty horror start to last season under Muscat. Even if S-T want to onsell Cacace, he's rumoured to be generating plenty of interest as it is. So a Olympic 'shop window' of limited use to S-T for someone like him. Hay no doubt like Arnold has been busy ringing around the Euro club coaches, though many of U24 guys in Europe unlike Cacace are yes only fringe players at their clubs.

https://www.ftbl.com.au/news/olyroos-tokyo-2021-chances-relying-on-goodwill-of-european-clubs-566148
"We've got to get goodwill from overseas-based clubs to release the players for the Olympics," Arnold said, adding the response so far to making players available had been 50/50.

"It's a lot of communication.

"I'm spending a lot of time on the phones with the sports directors of clubs overseas and talking about the great opportunity it will give the kids of that age group for their careers ahead of them."

Olympic squads can contain up to three 'over-age' players born before the January 1, 1997 eligibility cutoff.

Arnold said clubs of several over-age Socceroos had already ruled their players out of contention for Olympic selection, and the Australian coach says he will only pick those who can fill roles in the squad that can't be filled by under-23 talent.