Wishes for the new ASBP season

He means well. I think what he actually means is not the biggest effort but the most successful effort.

No actually I mean the most effort. Fund raising just doesn't happen of its own accord. I'm not saying it's necessarily down to lack of effort because I know it must be bloody hard trying to raise money in places like Dunedin or Napier. I also admit the Croatian connection is temendously valuable to ACFC. But are the smaller franchises putting in the same fundraising effort as ACFC or Canterbury? And TW frankly doesn't have much excuse, other than a certain elephant in the room is taking up most of the attention.

On another note - I see Marshy walked because of a big drop in pay for a new contract. Does that mean WU is investing too much in administrators like McGowan and not in the actual hot seat on the touchline? Shame really. Think Hay and Blazey must be front runners, although I imagine Fallon is warming up his well-worn CV.

Bluemagic - I'm not questioning the amount of effort ACFC puts into fundraising but you know damn well that a big part of the equation is the Trillion Trust - who ACFC are 100% reliant on for community trust funding. For all you know the other franchises are actually putting in more effort for less reward because they are forced to make more applications for smaller amounts of money to more trusts.

And the Phoenix has absolutely no bearing on TW's ability to get trust funding because the Phoenix aren't applying for trust funding. The simple fact is that there is no trust available to Wellington applicants willing to support TW to the extent that Trillion is prepared to support ACFC. You can interpet that as TW doing a poor job if you like, or you can interpret it as the trusts having a more egalitarian approach in Wellington.

Anyway, when I think about the total sum of trust funding flowing into the ASB Prem from all these different sources and all the administrative effort it must take, surely a better approach would be to wrap it all up into a single approach to one major trust and then distribute the money evenly.

doesnt the ASB thing do this ?

I seem to recall reading Steve Killgallon in Sunday StarTimes last year stating the enormous Trust $$$$ Lower Hutt City AFC had succeeded in pulling in. If they can do it why not TW?

You mean the funding from the Water Safety Education Foundation which was the subject of an Internal Affairs investigation?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/5037824/Water-safety-cash-given-to-other-sporting-codes

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/features/5159884/Entering-murky-waters

And which was the subject of a contentious thread in this very forum?

http://www.yellowfever.co.nz/categories/regional-football-powered-by-park-life/topics/32520

Not the best example to bring up, although I suppose it gives more weight to what I'm suggesting.

I guess the answer to your question is "because no-one from TW wants to go to jail".

By the way, I don't know exactly what happened to the Water Safety Education Foundation but they no longer have a website and are no longer listed by the DIA as being a trust that makes grants or one that is associated with any venues in Wellington.

Why that 'franchise' needs a CEO, a director of football and a paid first team coach for essentially 1 senior team and 1 youth team is beyond me... Marshy is right. Too top heavy. Considering that McGowan has nothing else to do and has still not sorted the footballing structure... Whats he doing for his dollar?

didn't he coach north shore in the last century?  maybe he fancies another crack on the bench himself (tongue in cheek)

this is very odd stuff. emblen gets the arse because they want someone full time and only focusing on waitak.  now they decide they need a director of football as well as a coach, each obviously on severely reduced terms? and a director of what exactly?  25-30 players?

FOUNDATIONS MERGE TO ENHANCE COMMUNITY BENEFITS.

    The Endeavour Community Foundation Limited (ECFL) and Water Safety Education Foundation (WSEF) have announced that they have merged to enhance the support provided to community activities. The merged entity will continue to operate under the ECFL name and will have significant presence in the Hawkes Bay were it has numerous venues. The ECFL Head Office will be located in Napier and will have one of its Grant Committee located in the Bay as well.

    The merger provides for a single entity to operate as a Class 4 Gaming Society thereby increasing resources available to much needed local activities. North Island locations, in addition to those based in Hawkes Bay, include South Auckland, Bay of Plenty, Levin, Foxton, Lower Hutt and coming soon to Tokoroa.
    ECFL has three Authorised Purposes (AP) in which it is approved to distribute its net proceeds:

1.       A non – commercial purpose that is beneficial to a whole or a section of the community;
2. Any purpose that involves water safety education and other community purposes including youth development; and
3. A charitable purpose.

    Significant in this merger is that ECFL has moved to withdraw from supporting grants used for stake monies to Racing Clubs, a stance not being taken by numerous other gaming societies. ECFL is particularly pleased that the merge will provide for increased support of water safety education opportunities for youth which is vital in efforts towards reducing the nation’s high annual drowning toll.

    The merged venture commenced operating from 1 July 2012.

Shame Ray Johns isn't still around. He'd have got it sorted.

Thanks for that Scousekiwi. They are still ploughing plenty of money into Lower Hutt AFC too - despite having no venues at all in the Greater Wellington region (the closest one is in Levin).

Do you know what would be great? An interactive map of NZ showing local communities where all the gaming funds gathered from venues in their area actually ends up, and for what purpose. I'm sure people would be shocked and disappointed.

The gaming trust system in NZ is a joke. I think funds distribution needs to come back under central or local government control because the trusts are just failing miserably to do it in a fair and equitable way that meets the spirit of the Act. That would also create much better opportunities for bulk funding community organisations in a way that gives them some certainty and consistency (which also kind of brings me back on topic - such a system could be a lifeline for the ASB Prem).

Cant be bothered finding a thread

http://www.times-age.co.nz/news/chance-for-young-footballing-talent-to-shine/1949831/

try getting involved in one , might be one idea ...

Objectively, would ACFC be open to 'outsiders'? I don't mean that as a wind up but it's pretty fair to say that the people that run Central, also run ACFC. Would they be open to people from clubs not named Central?

If so, great.

Waitakere appear to have numerous vacancies .....

Or TW if you live in a town with no apparent ASBP representation...

I know F.A. mate , Im  just suggesting....

your the goober who wants to be enlightened ...

well that's how this whole argument was started - personally i don't believe Chester or yourself or whoever made the initial claim actually know how much effort is put into trying to secure funding, i am not trying to say i know but i suspect a quick glance at their books and looking at the income is enough to convince some people that the effort isn't there.  

In my opinion and with my "limited" experience sometimes the less resourced clubs actually require the most effort to get funding - it's a chicken and egg scenario.

I'm totally open to a discussion about this as there may be a body of proof which suggests some of the ASBP franchises just sit back and wait for the the CWC money from Auckland City but i suspect this isn't the case.

I've never said other franchises don't make an effort in fundraising and I acknowledge that ACFC are in a good position but behind the scene its supporters also put in a lot of time and resources. Kiwitea Street has been built into a great facility from the ground up by the club, while some other franchises have the benefit of community stadiums. It's not a level playing field when it comes to trust money but ACFC has also earned a lot of it's own income on the field through its success in the O League and the CWC. That success has kept alive the whole ASBP. 

My issue with pooling all the trust money and distributing it evenly amongst the franchises is this would inhibit ACFC's cash flow and thus their ability to successfully compete in the O League. I think if any of the other franchises found themselves competing in the O League and CWC they'd get a shock at how much it costs, even with the prizemoney. Remember the last time WU competed as the NZ side they were eliminated by Hekari. I'm reliably told it costs ACFC up to $50,000 to compete in the O League alone, even with Fifa funding. Would a more egalitarian ASBP then be at risk from losing the O League prizemoney because lets face it, winning the O League is a harder nut to crack than winning the ASBP with all the travel involved and playing in hot tropical conditions. I don't think any other franchise, bar perhaps Canterbury United, could successfully compete in the O League. WU, who won the ASBP last season have struggled.

The sad fact is a more egalitarian ASBP would mean a less competitive ACFC and that would cost us in the vital O League.

 

Do you mean 500,000 there blue magic? If you got 4 games away, let's say you look at 1 game, 20pax travel 1500 return to some of these destinations plus accom food etc. 50k seems very light.

I would have thought perhaps 50k per home and away leg so maybe 200k?

I think rightly so, people expect ACFC to win it as they have always done so but that does not mean they are the only team that can do so. The pure and simple reason as to why they win it is because they have more money, which means they can afford to PAY/BUY for a better squad to win it (and I'm not rehashing that shamateurism argument - it's a fact and it fucks me off that people just refuse to admit it) It's a similar scenario to any other league where the team that always wins, gets the larger share and thus buys better players and stays on top. Let's not dress it up to anything otherwise. Yes they are a very well run, well supported and well organised club (with good facilities) and I would say easily the best in the league (based on little other than opinion) but onfield talent is where it is at and that all comes back to the doh-rey-me.

I know you mentioned before that WU borked it when they had their shot but are we solely reliant on ACFC to win this? Yes the experience is there of doing so, but group sourced shared funding to even the playing field for ASBP, why would that limit others winning it if they got there? We have two spots in the O League and my stance is I don't care who wins it as long as it's an NZ team. So if it was Southern and HBU that came 1 and 2 for an ASBP season because of group sourced shared funding, how would that stop them from winning it if they can assemble the on field talent?

The real reason why ACFC would be against it is not because 'others could not do it from a group sourced shared funding model'. It's because it would endanger their status as being the best in the land because take away that mountain of cash, you lose the on field talent and if so, that's fine and I'm cool with that - just say so. That's the more truthful and realistic reason and once we start having a conversation based around realisms and absolutes rather than charades, then we can get on with it. On one hand blue magic you do say that and that's cool but then you can't say that a team could not win the O League from a group sourced shared funding model. They could, we just do not know that.

A different example - Celtic would not share their cash out with other teams to create a more even SPL because they thought no other team could do it what they do in Europe (which is actually fuck all) They don't share the cash out because their club wants to stay on top of the heap.

Let's have a bit of honesty around some of these conversations. We will have a better conversation and less frustration if we do so.

My wish for the upcoming season: Southern Utd to win it playing samba soccer under their new Brazilian coach. Arriba!!

Hmm, not sure I can agree with that logic! Besides, the simplest solution would be to divide up any shared fund in a way that provides the O-League qualifiers with some extra support. Easy.

I can understand that there would be no real motivation for ACFC to want to move towards  such a model. However, If you're really worried about NZ's ongoing performance in the O-League then one of the biggest risks to that is actually a DIA investigation involving the Trillion Trust. I'm not saying they will find evidence of any wrong-doing but they would only have to scare the horses sufficiently at Trillion for the trust to look at its grant distribution practices and maybe cut what ACFC is getting.

Anyway, I suspect that under the current crazy legislation a bulked up funding model simply couldn't happen - due to the finickety admin and reporting requirements.

I agree with a lot of what Jeff says also.

My wish is that NZF inforce their own rules on the competition. (Ive got more chance of winning lotto)

I'm interesting in what the new competitions manager Chris Kemp is like. I've heard some good things and the way he dealt to Wairarapa, I think you could be waiting for Lotto for a while longer.

I'm not denying that ACFC want to protect their funding sources, who wouldn't? What I'm saying JV is that evenly distributing the trust funding raised across the board to all franchises would mean a big cut for ACFC and as you point out, a reduction in their resources to attract players.

There is Fifa funding for the participants in the O League but one reason ACFC has won it the last three times is they have poured extra funding into their campaigns by taking bigger squads etc. If the likes of CU or HBU or TW ended up as the NZ O League representative could they raise another $50,000 to $100,000 to mount a half decent campaign? That is the big question.

One problem with spreading the trust money about is the legality of say an Auckland-based trust being used to partially fund a CHCH or Dunedin franchise. Aren't trusts supposed to invest in local sports? There are plenty of winter club sides who do well from their local trust funding. The same argument would hold. ACFC isn't the only side being well supported by trust funding, but it's not an even playing field and we all know that. I don't know what the answer is other than NZF raising some decent investment in its own national league. I don't think the answer is to drag ACFC down in order to lift some of the struggling ASBP franchises up.

Personally I think most of the current ASBP franchises would struggle to be competitive in the O League. Canterbury is one side who could step up, and perhaps TW. Perhaps if the rumoured implosion of WU is true then we are going to find out in the next O League campaign. I'd love to see CU or even HBU engage ACFC as our second O League team.

You're giving it a good nudge BM but you are still essentially arguing to maintain the uncompetitiveness of the league, in order for only one or two teams to mount a serious challenge for the CWC prize money, in order to support a league that is inherently uncompetitive. Doesn't that somewhat undermine the very purpose of sport? What's the point of anyone else even competing then? Do you not think that this situation maybe even contributes to the lack of interest in our national league in the rest of the country?

As I suggested before if ASBP Prem pokie funding was centralised you could easily cut it up so that the O-League participants got some extra support. You're also forgetting that the next O-League will take place in April 2014 as a one or two week tournament in one country which will reduce costs and also make qualification for the CWC much more of a lottery for the NZ sides anyway.

And I find it very funny that you are showing any concern at all for the "legality" or even morality of the current pokie funding legislation and grant distribution practices. Yes, trusts are meant to distribute their funds locally. They are also meant to do that fairly, free of any influence, and in the case of sport for strictly amateur purposes only.

Anyway, the current legislation probably does make a centralised pokie funding scheme impossible, so unfortunately this seems destined to remain a wish only.

Its a old , old tune with  you ...isnt it

Pretty much, because nothing ever changes.

Anyway, in this instance I only raise ACFC's heavy reliance on the Trillion Trust in the context of Bluemagic stating that "a less competitive ACFC would cost us in the vital O League", and this being a reason for not moving to a (hypothetical) centralised pokie funding model for the ASB Prem. I'm just pointing out there's a risk ACFC's pokie funding money could be reduced anyway. If you want to ignore that risk that's up to you, but I'd suggest someone at ACFC should be planning for that possibility.

Well now that's a rather provocative statement.

no just the same old whiny shit as always