Michael Fitzgerald (Albirex Niigata)

Of course he wouldn't make the Japanese team. Firstly he's not eligible and secondly he's not good enough. There is a big gulf in class between Japan and New Zealand. He would definitely have a chance with the All Whites given our lack of quality in that area now.

It would be a shame Rugbyfan if you did quit these forums....as a professional sportsman with overseas experiance and a passionate kiwi you have opinions that would add to the discussion.

Remember though that you are back in NZ and there are some rules that need to be applied.

1, Negativity.....this is the normal default setting

2, Slag off your own......this is the default setting. Any kiwi player is a target. It does not matter if they are young, busting their gut, trying to make it in a hard professional environment, you must slag them off. Does not matter if they have got better, learned from their mistakes and moved up to a higher level from their own hard work you must never forget an average performance when they were just starting out.

3, Kiwi players make great scapegoats. its OK to say youngsters like Tyler Boyd are shit. But its even better to pick a player and blame him for the teams woe's. Therefore Tim Brown is/was shit, Tony lockhead is shit.....and people are already looking for the next  candidate....probably Glen Moss

4, Never give a player the benefit of the doubt. If a player has an ordinary game then it is always their fault. Its never the coaches tactics or them being played out of position or other players not doing their job properly. One example Stein Huysegems....Former Dutch international with 100+ games in a good level in European club football......arrives at a disfunctional Phoenix and gets labeled shit

5, There are loads of what the American call "Monday morning quarterbacks" on these forums. But probably the best word on this subject came from one of the Phoenix owners ....."some of them don't know much about football at all"

Typo  Huysegems was a Belgian international.

This statement alone is enough to make your entire argument ridiculous.  Writing one of our few overseas professional players off after 2 games is one of the silliest things you've said in a while.  Have you watched us play recently?  Have you seen our midfield?

Secondly, your attitude towards other people on this forum is appalling.  This is not about whether you are right or wrong on certain issues - I personally both agree and disagree with you at times, the hectoring and the bullying is just pathetic especially when it is directed at new forum members (new members should be encouraged not attacked), every thread you participate in descends into a slanging  match with you in the middle of it.  

You are literally one voice on here but you are having a far disproportionate effect on the overall tone.  You really need to wind it back in - this is not and has never been a democracy so there will be no issue with banning you permanently

If Fitzgerald really is playing regular J1 then he's got to be worth another go in the AWs. Even if he just goes into camp and doesn't impress - worth another look surely.

And a few of you need to wind back the aggression a little bit. Just sayin'

Edit: and when me and JD are in agreement you know that's some dead set truth and facts yo.

I think its great he is getting games in J1. He is good on the ball, he was good in the China game. I even thought he looked OK in the Mexico game but kept slipping over. He clearly had the wrong boots for that surface (which was terrible), which seems a very rookie mistake but also very easily fixed.What is his normal position? He didn't really look like a center back to me (and we have plenty) but we are criminally short of central midfielders so if he can play there he would definitely be worth a look.

Surprised by Vaders negativity... not that he can't be normally but he seemed to do it with such passion this time.

Players develop at different rates and perhaps its taken Fitzgeral a little longer to find his footing. 

The simple fact is NZ football is not strong enough that it can reasonably ignore a player playing at the level he is whilst at the same time have a coach saying he will continue to pick a player currently without a club and having not played a competative game in months.

Deserves a decent chance (more than one game and 10 mins of the bench)

If he can play defensive midfield he should be involved. Can't be worse than putting our strikers in the middle of the park.

My opinion is that he is not good enough. That was a simple opinion I stated from the get go and that was it. Basically it started when the guy put words in my mouth. To me, I don't care if he is professional or plays for Man U - it's not a consideration I make when I say he is not good enough. I think the league he plays in to a degree has no relevance because if it did, the likes of Feneridis, McGeorge, Ivan, Clapham would not have worn/be wearing the white shirt because they play at a lower level. By the same token, whether he is professional or not makes no difference to me for those same players I just listed. Then all I read after that was 'This is what Michael thinks' so not really his opinion, but just a repeater and to me, it reeked of sour grapes, especially when I called him on the altitude thing. I never stated at any point in time that he was not good enough because of the league he played in yet I get attributed of saying that. Now to totally destroy my argument, I thought Aaron Clapham had a standout Nations Cup in Honiara and yet he looked like out of his depth again Jordan so I accept that if he gets another go and turns in something infinitely better, it's subject to change. You are only ever as good as the last match you played and for me = not good enough (and he had two goes)

I have no doubt that the Japanese leagues are a good standard of football and good on him for establishing himself over there. For me, I assess what he did in a white shirt and all I saw was 'not good enough'. I think if we were picking players on what league they play in and what their status is, we are in danger of looking foolish because by that very definition alone, Totori > Ivan. Now that's a simplistic statement to make but we all know its a load of bollocks. I'd also like to point out that John Barnes was a wizard in a Liverpool shirt yet he was utter shyte for England... Logically, it should not have worked that way but it did.

As for the history between WR and RH about this kid, someone fill me in a bit more because what I read is that WR has influence in picking of players in the team.

And JD, if you want to ban me, it does not bother me. You'll do it, or you won't however if people are going to attribute stuff to me I did not say or talk bollocks when you get called on it, yeah I'll tell you what I think, just like you and Term frequently do to each other. The point is, I back my opinion strongly so if people disagree with it, put up a strong argument that shows me I am wrong. I do change my mind when shown a point of view that has reason but saying 'you are wrong JV and are bully' is hardly a point of view where I am going to go 'well he has a point'

Vader I'm a fan of yours.  But some of what you say makes no sense tonight. You don't care if he plays for ManU?  So you back yourself ahead of the ManU management and staff?  There's a wee problem there JV and it's called your own opinion of yourself.  I know a little of the WR/RH relationship so let me embellish you.  They are no mates, but there's obvious respect.  And WR is not short of a word or two from time to time and he's smart enough to pick his platform.  He says Fitzgerald is good enough and the spotlight is on RH immediately - that's life.  RH can ignore him or tell him to foook off.  But RH is a diplomat and so...he picks the boy.  But RH is not happy. So he plays him at full back.  I've known Michael since he was 11 years old.  He's a DM.  Always was always will be.  I hope the boy comes good for what it's worth.

And Vader....I support EFC but Jonny Barnes was not utter shite for England...WTF? Did you even see the way he destroyed Brazil in  84?  His impact in 86 is legendary.  Sure he had his bad games for England, but utter shite??? 

The old Vader is back.  And Vader how much did Ryan Nelsen improve from 24?  Now go and have a beer...and dare to dream.

Well you presented a good argument and I listened.

Thank you

Thank you Vader - you are a legend here.  Stay that way.

OK you two - get a room

A room with Vader?  Well you sure as hell wouldn't get any sleep with old blabbermouth would ya?

I guess on the balance of anomalies I talked about I guess he would be worth a 3rd look but register me as a sceptic.

I guess to get another look, it would need a new coach? Why did he not get a look on the Olympic squad if this is a personal thing from Rickis part?

Too much stupid.  Locked.