Auckland City FC - Thanks a Trillion

I see JV's point but unfortunately as you say, his facts are astray. The likes of Danko, Burfoot and Browne are long established NZ residents so to brand them foreigners is pushing the bile. Both Burfoot and Browne could well end up as All Whites like Durante. I too would like ACFC to be more of a pathway for young NZ talent and feel we've relied too much on imports. On the other hand I want to see good players and we need to be competitive in the O League and CWC. It's a balancing act.

Wonder how we'll do today against Waitakerie and their 2 Scots imports, 1 Irish import, 1 Aussie import, 1 Thai import....

Precisely Jerzy. Teams are getting stupid with their imports. I'm quick to (validly) rail on ACFC but it seems Canty and Waitakere are also doing it

From a holistic perspective, our league is going much the same way as the EPL where more and more foreigners are coming in and the Kiwis, or at least marginal ones, are getting squeezed out. I like Regs point where by 4 non NZ eligible players are allowed. Effectively, you are enforcing FIFA criteria. That sounds harsh for teams that that have a lot of imports but then only the best imports should be there anyway. This whole guest thing or have played here a year to be considered local is absolute garbage. Ask Wairarapa how those rules worked for them. Even though they broke them, had it been a strict 4 import rule, there would be zero confusion.

I think we have to accept the fact that our league will not get any better than it is because of a number of reasons (mainly NZF and the lack of drive) so then give the league some sort of purpose by developing Kiwis that can not get over seas on pro contracts or use it as a window for them. Give it some purpose and the only way you do that is to kick the majority of imports out. It's a rest home league for guys that get $70k to play 14 games

I might also add that there are guys that rave about ACFC and would rather watch them than the Phoenix because it's supporting NZ football.  Fair enough but all you are watching is a team of imports playing in an NZ league. You are not really watching 'NZ football' just like if you watch the EPL, you are not really watching 'English football'

You have touched on something rather interesting I think. You need to be successful to make CWC to get the money to pay players to get back to the CWC to get money to money to pay players.... 

You are right it is a balancing act but I honestly believe you would get a crazy amount more respect if you were churning out AWs vs the current set up. I think the only 4 worth keeping would be Berlanga, Bale, Tade (despite being really a 20min footballer) and not sure on the 4th. Krishna is a good striker for this level but I think his style and ACFCs style are opposite.

i absolutely agree with what vader has said

the league is something of a dog's breakfast right now and despite this, it has still produced a good stream of professional players

it would however be interesting to draw up a list of ASB prem alumni and check on the ratios of pro players produced by each franchise. 

normally you'd expect to see the best teams produce the most pros, but i'd be willing to bet that this ratio doesn't apply because of the better asb prem teams being full of foreigners

ryan thomas made his debut in holland this week and scored.  waikato fc, take a bow.  this is what our franchises should be aiming for.

and if it's money they're after, remember that when thomas transfers to a bigger club, waikato get a share of the fee.

Waikato FC has produced Rojas, Wood, Thomas, Hicks BUT I would have to question if the ASB clubs can be classed as producing these players because they simply signed them from winter or junior clubs who realistically had a greater role in their development.. Once ASB clubs have a youth team and then academies etc then they can be really classed as producing players

Add Tyler Boyd to that Waikato list as well....

Agree with Mr W's point, though would acknowledge the national league entity (Waikato FC in this instance) did provide the shop window for several of those players to come to prominence.

In the case of Wood I'm not even sure if he ever started a national league game... his appearances may well have been limited to coming off the bench... laughable now when you think he was replacing the likes of Luke Findley... but he was widely expected around the manor to break through to pro ranks anyway. 

As for Rojas, I remember a journalist colleague excitedly telling me one day he had seen this 10-year-old who would definitely play for New Zealand one day. And that was despite Marko being overlooked for all those age-group national teams. Rojas was handled pretty astutely by Waikato coach of the time, Dave Edmondson, as he grew into the league given his very small size - though there were those complaining he wasn't starting

But the national league was definitely the shop window for Boyd and Thomas. Both on the small side, so had little chance at age-group selections, but even in a regularly beaten team they showed out as having real talent, especially when playing together.

As for the player development fee, that is shared pro-rata, with the clubs the player has been registered with since he was 12 - with a greater weighting towards those at the later stage. Waikato FC might get about one 10th, I guess, based on his registration period... the rest to his winter club (Melville) over those years.

Auckland City beat Waitakere Utd 4 1

ACFC treated Waitakere like the side they were - 2nd best

Other than the opening goal which was a lovely ball to split both CBs, Williams did nothing. I though Alec Solomon(s?) was lucky not to get a red card for his tackle on Krishna - it was ugly. Probably the only saving grace was no studs but Jesus..

I though ACFC carried Billen and Feneridis who did nothing for them and Tade did his usually 20 mins of brilliance and not much else. Bale was easily the best player on the park with Irving making everything look simple. Waitakere carried more than a few players that did nothing - Jack Hobson-McVeigh won't start again and Cuneen is slower than Sigmund and Ivan combined and was consistently beaten. Cardoza = ineffectual

Waitakere will beat some sides simply because they are Waitakere but they won't beat a TW or ACFC this year. They looked in pre-season mode still and coughed up possession far far too easily. I think they got to the stage where they started focusing on the decisions they were not getting vs playing to beat ACFC in the end. Interesting to hear Butler give his coach (Shelley) a serve and Shelley just took it. I think this side will implode because there is no dominate personality to tell Butler and co to pull their heads in.

good write up vader

just questioning why having dominant personalities among players, in this instance at waitak, is a bad thing?

reading between the lines it sounds like 'butler and co' are bad news.  is this the case?  because some of the best teams have strong and dominant personalities on the pitch

Usually tempered by having a strong dominant personality off it !

true dat

How did JHV go in the game?  i thought he was having surgery on something - maybe has had it and is working back from it or has delayed it.

Wish I had Sommet so I could watch it tonight...

It's not just about glory, it's about getting hold of hard cash. Which then gets spread around. And to repeat what's been said here many times about the Nix, why should ACFC - or any ASB club - be in business for the purpose of 'churning out AW's'?

Wasn't it because the Mount had managed to 'corner the market'?

I don't think having a strong personality within the squad is a bad thing at all but you do need a strong off field personality to be able to kick some ass when those players get too big for their boots. It was no secret that under Emblen, they struggled to get numbers to training - not a strong off field personality. Milicich never took that shit. Butler gave Shelley a spray and told him where to go. How does that work when the captain just told the coach where to go and the other guy on the sideline looks lost unless he is coaching school girls?

Roy Keane, dominant personality. Alex Ferguson, dominant personality. Every now and then, those guys need the boot in the ass. Waitakere do not have that to tell those players 'Oi, pull your head in'

Lazy. His game does not fit in the Waitakere style and he does no work defensively. Southern wont punish you for that. ACFC will.

Absolutely fair point and I think you are 100% correct in that.

Then why do we consistently read on here (and it is mainly ACFC supporters) about people that prefer to watch 'local football' when the only thing local about it is the town its played in. I see Tegal get ragged on for not supporting local football when he chooses the Phoenix. The Phoenix in Wellington are as local as ACFC in Auckland but there are more Kiwis playing for the Phoenix than there are ACFC. Should he not rag on those for not supporting 'NZ players' ?

Again, yesterday, Tamati, Irving, Ivan, Berlanga, Iwata, Bale, Billen, Feneridis, Krishna, Tade, Danko. 3 Kiwis...... (and that side would have beaten the Phoenix again I think but again, massive slant on the import quota)

 

I'm not trying to wind you guys up. I'm saying 'Do you actually listen to how you sound'. If those folk stopped with the garbage, your club would get a bit more love from Phoenix fans on this forum. The people that were up for the last Phoenix game in Auckland deliberately chose to stay away from Kiwitea street because of this rubbish. Not a glowing indictment on the fans of ACFC really.

Oh I agree entirely. I don't live in Wellington anymore so I get along to as many games ASB games as I can watch. By the same token, with Team Wellington that will play 7 games (that the spectators will see because of no media coverage) vs the 27 that they can see for the Phoenix, you cannot begrudge them the right to choose the Phoenix over TW.

 

The reality is, its a lot easier to follow mainly because of profile. I am not saying that is right or wrong, its just the reality of what is happening. When there is a clash, are you going to choose a team where there is no profile, the football is generally accepted to be of a less standard at a ground that is just a club ground with no atmosphere. There is also a thread on here which is bemoaning the lack of Wellington players (Team (Not) Wellington) so that has created a disconnect. That's interesting because your club has stuff all locals or Central players (or the other clubs you are meant to represent) and you guys follow them hard core and good on you for that loyalty. That would suggest you guys follow the club regardless of the players in the shirt and the Wellington fans follow the 'Wellington' identity or brand (if that makes sense) and would rather see local footballers in the TW shirt.

 

Its an interesting paradox.

Right in one.

Absolutely. Waikato is shining example whereby they have largely been a club that has not been able to field a team solely of locals and be competitive (or the locals do not want to play all year around) so they have had to get Aucklanders in.

 

I think that probably Hawkes Bay, Otago and Canty are the only club that use locals although I see Mulligan and Lovemore at HBU so that's out the window as well.

 

It also raises an interesting point that other franchises pinch Auckland players. Why not go raid Cashmere where they have dominated winter football this year? The logistics make it expensive but if that's where the talent is.....

Just like to point out that I do support local football. I try to get to both teams games as much as I possibly can. I tend to get to more Phoenix games purely because of work - I ask for time off to watch nix at the stadium = day off, I ask for time off to watch TW at a park in Miramar = funny look. 

The point JV is probably alluding to is that if one of my Wellington teams I support is playing at the same time as the other, I'd choose the nix. I think this is fair enough choosing to watch the professional side that more of my mates will be at the game, over an amateur one - and is in no way evidence of me not supporting local football. I also think the nix need supporting too. 

I do feel a bit more of a disconnect with TW than I do with the nix, because it feels like I'm watching a Miramar team, rather than one that represents Wellington as a whole, but I still go along to as many games as I can because it is football, and I do enjoy the ASBP and want to support it. I even pay the entry fee at the gate despite being able to get in free with my nix season pass. 

On top of that, I go to as many chatham cup and central league games as my time allows, though it's generally hard when you're also playing. But enjoyed a few really good midweek or night Olympic Chatham cup games at Wakefield park under the lights, as well as that awesome game at Upper Hutt (4-3 I think) on the last day of the central league season that sent Wellington united down. Plus a few more games at various times, most of which I live tweeted. 

Just felt the need to clear that up since my name was dropped into the conversation..ended up a bit longer than I intended, so apologies :p

Guess my point is that you can support both the nix AND 'local football' and I do get quite sick of some of how some of you ACFC lot carry on sometimes. 

Think there are a few imports at both Canterbury United and Cashmere.

Last known example on a global scale: Glasgow Celtic, Euro Cup winners over Inter Milan, 1967.

You still banging on about - where are the Kiwis JV? Danko is a resident Kiwi and has been here about 14 years, Browne (sub), Milne (sub) and Burfoot (sub) are all NZ residents who have been here a long time. The fact they may have been born somewhere else shouldn't be the issue, we're a nation of largely immigrants. In the 70s and 80s the old National league and AWs were full of British accents. Sure I'd like to see more young NZ talent come through the ranks of ACFC but the ASBP overall is doing a good job in developing NZ talent and ACFC has to win the O League each year to keep the ASBP viable.

You need to stop banging this drum JV. There must be other ways to criticize ACFC, surely? I know, perhaps they're scoring too many goals now. I notice your report on what happened at Fred Taylor park focused mainly on WU's shortcomings and hardly mentioned ACFC's high pressure attacking style tearing WU apart. In all honestly it could have been 6-1.

All I read was "blah blah blah we are a team of Kiwis" You tell me I am banging a drum? How many of your starting line up are eligible for NZ? Case closed.

I did talk about the relevant parts of ACFC."I though ACFC carried Billen and Feneridis who did nothing for them and Tade did his usually 20 mins of brilliance and not much else. Bale was easily the best player on the park with Irving making everything look simple." Were you looking for a rundown player ranking from top to bottom out of 10? You were at the game, you provide one if you feel its necessary. At the end of the day, I don't need to do my opinion according to your standards. You've obvious got a keyboard and fat fingers, you type it up. Make a change to see a game from your opinion so we can dissect yours.

I don't think the pressure of ACFC was the reason at all to be honest hence why I did not mention it. ACFC held their shape but WU were absolutely terrible in kicking away possession without anyone on them. When you are kicking the ball away to no one, you don't exactly need to move your back line off halfway now do you.

Oooh, I don't have fat fingers. You really think the pressure applied by ACFC had little to do with WU conceding four goals? What did they come from, bad back passes? Thought Billen was composed in defence but could be harried off the ball and Tade puts in more than 20 minutes. The one who I was disappointed in was Hogg, thought he lost interest. I would have thought he had a point to prove.

Fat fingers is a phrase. Nothing personal or directed specifically at you.

See you are putting words in my mouth. Remove your bias. ACFC scored their 4 goals because they deserved them of that there is no doubt. Their goals were definitely scored from solid play. The bulk of possession enjoyed by ACFC was because WU were careless with it and kicked it away. I think in tennis they call it unforced errors. How often did Shelley hoof it up the line without pressure. How often did Solomon send it long for a GK. How often did Cuneen send an up and under. How often did JHM make the short pass to the ACFC man. In most cases, those players were not under pressure. I can't remember if it was the Krishna goal or the Solomon yellow on him but there was a clearance from the back into Bale who was sitting free in 20y of space and the player who kicked it to him was not under pressure. 

Agree on Billen and Hogg.

Predictions on  match this weekend? Team Wellington - Auckland

for me ACFC 3-2 win.

greetings from Poland :)

i'd go with 2 zip auckland

7 - 3 to ACFC

Good game to open the league with. One would suspect that the better preseason that ACFC have had will hold them in better stead. They just beat Waitakere 4-1. I would think a win by 2 or 3 goals could be reasonable pre match guess

ooohhh good point. It would get picked up by FIFA before CWC anyway.

Haha Irving would have been fine, he can speak English and has an easy-to-find track record of his former clubs.

Reckon it could be reasonably close tomorrow, Auckland to close it out late, 3-1 or 4-2.