Can't help but notice that Tommy Smith's Facebook profile picture is of him in an All Whites jersey, don't know what that suggests but thought it might be worth pointing out
Tommy Smith (Auckland FC | A-League)
I think he will go close to getting picked up by a Prem club next year if he has a similar year to last years.
He scored six goals and his team pushed towards promotion despite being unfancied,
Perhaps, he's said this is his make or break year to make a real mark and get noticed??
Still a little clarification on his part would be good.
I hope Wood or Reid have a word in his ear and tell him to either man up or speak up.
Completely disagree, obviously we don't have many top players but he is not a premiership player.
Posted this in the Uzbekistan thread, probably better placed here.
Slightly coming at the other side from this one.
If there is one guy who has the right to be seriously pissed off/disillusioned/uninterested because of the way the end of the Herbert era happened it has to be Smith. He shows up in Honiara, made captain of what seemed to be an incredibly disfunctional ship and then had to face the public in the wake of Mexico while everything else was crumbling around him. Sure, he was part of a group of players that went through all that but he was the captain. Asked to do an impossible job.
If off the back of that he says x,y,z needs to happen and he doesn't believe it has, then I can understand his decision. None of us have seen the report post Mexico or read the players verdicts into what went on so we can't know what was said by who and what guarantees were made.
Yes, it's not a good look if he swans back for the big games and it sets a really bad precedent but if there is one guy I could probably understand it coming from, it's him.
Sure but the whole set-up has changed since then. If he doesn't want to be a part of that, no problem, but that's the end of it for me.
I'm not in the camp that every player needs to turn out for every friendly - I think that's way too black and white and doesn't respect individual circumstances and doesn't acknowledge the difficulties between club and country. But if you take a year off you are stepping out of the team and saying I don't want to be a part of this. I don't see why the players would really want you back.
that article basically says that he knows its a different regime, so any thought of this being about last year are wrong.
"I don't think I'll be playing the Japan friendly, I need a nice long summer holiday"
"I don't think I'll play for the all whites for the next 12 months, there isn't any exciting World Cup or Olympics games that are worth my time"
Those are all old quotes.
Posted this in the Uzbekistan thread, probably better placed here.
Slightly coming at the other side from this one.
If there is one guy who has the right to be seriously pissed off/disillusioned/uninterested because of the way the end of the Herbert era happened it has to be Smith. He shows up in Honiara, made captain of what seemed to be an incredibly disfunctional ship and then had to face the public in the wake of Mexico while everything else was crumbling around him. Sure, he was part of a group of players that went through all that but he was the captain. Asked to do an impossible job.
If off the back of that he says x,y,z needs to happen and he doesn't believe it has, then I can understand his decision. None of us have seen the report post Mexico or read the players verdicts into what went on so we can't know what was said by who and what guarantees were made.
Yes, it's not a good look if he swans back for the big games and it sets a really bad precedent but if there is one guy I could probably understand it coming from, it's him.
Sure but the whole set-up has changed since then. If he doesn't want to be a part of that, no problem, but that's the end of it for me.
But if he said that as part of a new regime he needed to see x,y,z and he has seen no evidence of that, then you could see why he would be miffed.
Yep, I thought it was a bit damming wrt his decision.
Those are all old quotes.
Still applies though. New CEO, and even more so now with a new coach.
Posted this in the Uzbekistan thread, probably better placed here.
Slightly coming at the other side from this one.
If there is one guy who has the right to be seriously pissed off/disillusioned/uninterested because of the way the end of the Herbert era happened it has to be Smith. He shows up in Honiara, made captain of what seemed to be an incredibly disfunctional ship and then had to face the public in the wake of Mexico while everything else was crumbling around him. Sure, he was part of a group of players that went through all that but he was the captain. Asked to do an impossible job.
If off the back of that he says x,y,z needs to happen and he doesn't believe it has, then I can understand his decision. None of us have seen the report post Mexico or read the players verdicts into what went on so we can't know what was said by who and what guarantees were made.
Yes, it's not a good look if he swans back for the big games and it sets a really bad precedent but if there is one guy I could probably understand it coming from, it's him.
Sure but the whole set-up has changed since then. If he doesn't want to be a part of that, no problem, but that's the end of it for me.
But if he said that as part of a new regime he needed to see x,y,z and he has seen no evidence of that, then you could see why he would be miffed.
Ok, but considering NZF's limitations it seems to me that they have done a pretty thorough job of changing things round. So if he won't play in this set-up, he won't play for us again. Or he thinks he can take a year off and walk back into the team - which NZF can't allow to happen for obvious reasons. Or he basically doesn't care but does fancy the big games so he's testing NZF and if they don't let him pick and choose as he likes he won't play again.
In all 3 scenarios he doesn't play again for us without doing plenty of penance, and I don't see him doing that
In all 3 scenarios he doesn't play again for us without doing plenty of penance, and I don't see him doing that
What say he does have a blinder of a season? Looking out a year or two from now would we have LB covered?
Posted this in the Uzbekistan thread, probably better placed here.
Slightly coming at the other side from this one.
If there is one guy who has the right to be seriously pissed off/disillusioned/uninterested because of the way the end of the Herbert era happened it has to be Smith. He shows up in Honiara, made captain of what seemed to be an incredibly disfunctional ship and then had to face the public in the wake of Mexico while everything else was crumbling around him. Sure, he was part of a group of players that went through all that but he was the captain. Asked to do an impossible job.
If off the back of that he says x,y,z needs to happen and he doesn't believe it has, then I can understand his decision. None of us have seen the report post Mexico or read the players verdicts into what went on so we can't know what was said by who and what guarantees were made.
Yes, it's not a good look if he swans back for the big games and it sets a really bad precedent but if there is one guy I could probably understand it coming from, it's him.
Sure but the whole set-up has changed since then. If he doesn't want to be a part of that, no problem, but that's the end of it for me.
But if he said that as part of a new regime he needed to see x,y,z and he has seen no evidence of that, then you could see why he would be miffed.
Ok, but considering NZF's limitations it seems to me that they have done a pretty thorough job of changing things round. So if he won't play in this set-up, he won't play for us again. Or he thinks he can take a year off and walk back into the team - which NZF can't allow to happen for obvious reasons. Or he basically doesn't care but does fancy the big games so he's testing NZF and if they don't let him pick and choose as he likes he won't play again.
In all 3 scenarios he doesn't play again for us without doing plenty of penance, and I don't see him doing that
The flip side to that is Tommy has not been very media savvy in this. He should have either clarified or shut the fuck up. He kinda half spoke in riddles and its just made him look like a cock. This has certainly not helped his cause. Now it looks like it might be a case of 'I need to focus on my club' which is just trot or 'I need to see that ship is not the same fuck up as a year ago'. Either way, it would seem that Winston and others have no issue so why does he? I think the whole 'you didn't let me play that one game' is the root of this and absolutely childish.
Bit of a bummer but hopefully fitzgerald gets a europe gig or musa or eager step up a level
Happens to be a year in which we don't have any big world cup games or anything.
Sums it up really, just here for the World cup and Olympics, can't be farked the rest of the time.
If I were NZF, I would have said to him 'sure, we will grant you that request but you must play in this international. Its in a camp for a few days, only half the distance to travel and your first time in front of the new coach. Turn up for this and show him what you are about cause if you don't we can't guarantee that it will only be 12 months as he will have never seen you.'
I agree with you 100% Jeff but as others have said, the precedent has already been set.
NZF let Nelsen and Elliott have their way at times as you've covered, plus SNZ/NZFA let De Jong and Rufer both cherry pick as well. Both of those lads ignored NZ when they were at their peaks in Europe.
I just hope NZF says enough is enough. When his self-imposed exile is over either don't pick him, or if we do, don't play him.
He has 10 more All Whites caps than Winston Reid. Maybe we have to make both co-captains so they feel more obliged to play.
How many games has Reid missed through injury and 'injury'?
He has 10 more All Whites caps than Winston Reid. Maybe we have to make both co-captains so they feel more obliged to play.
What? Seems to have had the opposite effect for Smith.
Winston and Smith are different situations.
Winston can say "Sorry Fat Sam, I want to play for NZ this international window" and they'll generally let him do what he wants as he's an important part of their set-up and if he stays, likely to be West Ham's next captain.
Smith on the other hand has to focus on club as he's 'not that big a deal'. If he tried to take off to the Southern Hemisphere every few months, Ipswich would probably just flick him off and he'd be stuck in a middle/bottom of the table Champ-o team at best.
He has 10 more All Whites caps than Winston Reid. Maybe we have to make both co-captains so they feel more obliged to play.
What? Seems to have had the opposite effect for Smith.
When did Reid become captain? Up until that point I think Smith had been making the effort. Not saying losing the captaincy is his reason for his no show.
Winston and Smith are different situations.
Winston can say "Sorry Fat Sam, I want to play for NZ this international window" and they'll generally let him do what he wants as he's an important part of their set-up and if he stays, likely to be West Ham's next captain.
Smith on the other hand has to focus on club as he's 'not that big a deal'. If he tried to take off to the Southern Hemisphere every few months, Ipswich would probably just flick him off and he'd be stuck in a middle/bottom of the table Champ-o team at best.
The Championship does break for FIFA international windows and I would think until WC qualifying starts (Oct next year) there may be at most a couple of games in NZ. There is the upcoming game in Sept against Uzbekistan and then no games currently scheduled in the Oct window and then a couple of proposed games against Malaysia and China in the Nov window. Not sure what is organised for the March window and then the season is over and then there is the June window. So if NZF organises games in NZ in March he will do one trip over the course of the season to the Southern Hemisphere with two trips to Asia. Is that too much for him/club, when he won't be playing anyway?
A leopard never changes his spots. Tommy was selected for the NZU17s and was happy to play for NZ, in fact he was named their captain. But then England selected him and he had no qualms in leaving the NZU17s high and dry!
Think he thought he would go on to play for England at a senior level but I could've told him that was never going to happen! Yep, as it was England Seniors never came calling so he had to settle for playing for the All Whites. (Would say he saw the All Whites as a way to get on the world stage and was hopeful it would bolster his career)
Can't say the lad has ever had any real loyalty unless he thinks he's going to benefit. In all honesty I think it's probably how most players would be - it's just a fact of life.
Winston and Smith are different situations.
Winston can say "Sorry Fat Sam, I want to play for NZ this international window" and they'll generally let him do what he wants as he's an important part of their set-up and if he stays, likely to be West Ham's next captain.
Smith on the other hand has to focus on club as he's 'not that big a deal'. If he tried to take off to the Southern Hemisphere every few months, Ipswich would probably just flick him off and he'd be stuck in a middle/bottom of the table Champ-o team at best.
Disagree with this. Smith would be just as important to town as Reid is to the hammers. He may also be their next captain
Winston and Smith are different situations.
Winston can say "Sorry Fat Sam, I want to play for NZ this international window" and they'll generally let him do what he wants as he's an important part of their set-up and if he stays, likely to be West Ham's next captain.
Smith on the other hand has to focus on club as he's 'not that big a deal'. If he tried to take off to the Southern Hemisphere every few months, Ipswich would probably just flick him off and he'd be stuck in a middle/bottom of the table Champ-o team at best.
I think we need to stop trying to rationalise this. If he wanted to play international football he'd play, like the hundreds of other players in the top 2 divisions of English football do.
Winston and Smith are different situations.
Winston can say "Sorry Fat Sam, I want to play for NZ this international window" and they'll generally let him do what he wants as he's an important part of their set-up and if he stays, likely to be West Ham's next captain.
Smith on the other hand has to focus on club as he's 'not that big a deal'. If he tried to take off to the Southern Hemisphere every few months, Ipswich would probably just flick him off and he'd be stuck in a middle/bottom of the table Champ-o team at best.
Even though the issue of this self imposed International hiatus has pissed me off to the max, with all due respect I'd still say that he's an integral part of the Ipswich lineup. Ipswich would be foolish to hold anything like that against him, and I doubt they would go down such an avenue.
Despite the well publicised angst that surfaced regarding the Mexican WCQ debacle and the falling out with NZF top brass, team management and RH, surely the recent appointments would give most people/players within the national team setup, a reason to believe an upturn in fortunes for the national team was ahead, and iirc, wasn't smith amongst a group of players who wanted to affect such change within NZF?
At the end of the day it seems to all come down to a grudge he's been holding onto from not being able to play for Ipswich in the leadup to the Mexico games. If that's the case he's clearly not one to let a grudge pass but could also show he is merely looking out for number one, or he suffers from some sort of tall poppy syndrome where he only wants to play in matches of significance. With that said, is this the sort of player we want to have playing for the AW's? I think not.
I'm really hoping someone like Boxall will step up to the mark in the coming matches too, whatever happens, we can't welcome him back with open arms.
I'm really hoping someone like Boxall will step up to the mark in the coming matches too, whatever happens, we can't welcome him back with open arms.
I don't buy this at all. We are in no position to not pick our best players, and as it stands he is one of our best players. It is not great what he is doing, but I kind of understand it, and if we have a crunch play-off game in a couple of years I would want him there.
I'm really hoping someone like Boxall will step up to the mark in the coming matches too, whatever happens, we can't welcome him back with open arms.
I don't buy this at all. We are in no position to not pick our best players, and as it stands he is one of our best players. It is not great what he is doing, but I kind of understand it, and if we have a crunch play-off game in a couple of years I would want him there.
And what precedent would that set? One rule for some and another rule for others? Then what's to stop the likes of Wood, Rojas and Thomas - all of whom are chasing the same dream as Smith of playing football at an elite level, from taking a prolonged break from International football? The repercussions would be devastating.
Also, in terms of team morale, how would you feel had you worked towards something by making the sacrifices, showing the commitment and desire to play for your country, only to have someone swoon in and take your place because they happen to make themselves available? If and when Tommy comes back, he need's to show he want's to represent New Zealand, as well as not relying on his past AW's performances/reputation to get back in the side after said time off.
I'm sure someone mentioned it earlier in this thread, but if he is making himself unavailable for this 12 month period, he better damn well earn his spot back after that time. The team comes before the individual.
At the moment there is nothing to stop the likes of Wood, Rojas and Thomas doing the same - that is the problem we have. If anyone else decides to do it we are in the same boat as we are with Smith - we either accept it and hope that they change their minds, or we cut our noses off to spite our face. I would love to be in a position in 12 month's time where we have a better player to play centreback than Smith, or the position of any other player who wants to do this. I would actually want to see his face when the management team tell him it is nice that he has made himself available but he is no longer wanted and we will have fun in Russia without him. Problem is, without a raft of radioactive spiders biting ASB premier league players, that is unlikely to be the case. And that is just how it is.
In terms of the other players, well this is professional football and shit happens. Duncan Oughtan played a lot of games in qualifying for 2010 and then missed the squad for the world cup as other players made themselves available - it is not nice but it happens. I would rather play our best 11 in games that really matter (friendlies are good, but ultimately do not mean anything) than play the 11 who are the most dedicated to the team/squad/country.
Most worrying too me...how badly has he handled this ..his management / PR people / advisers must be dreadful ....
At the moment there is nothing to stop the likes of Wood, Rojas and Thomas doing the same - that is the problem we have. If anyone else decides to do it we are in the same boat as we are with Smith - we either accept it and hope that they change their minds, or we cut our noses off to spite our face. I would love to be in a position in 12 month's time where we have a better player to play centreback than Smith, or the position of any other player who wants to do this. I would actually want to see his face when the management team tell him it is nice that he has made himself available but he is no longer wanted and we will have fun in Russia without him. Problem is, without a raft of radioactive spiders biting ASB premier league players, that is unlikely to be the case. And that is just how it is.
In terms of the other players, well this is professional football and shit happens. Duncan Oughtan played a lot of games in qualifying for 2010 and then missed the squad for the world cup as other players made themselves available - it is not nice but it happens. I would rather play our best 11 in games that really matter (friendlies are good, but ultimately do not mean anything) than play the 11 who are the most dedicated to the team/squad/country.
I don't get this. On the one hand everyone wants the All Whites to play more games but then when we do they are just friendlies. Then we miss out on the World Cup and say "NZ Football needs to set higher standards and play more meaningful games." Then we do the exact same thing. Then we have a go at fans when they don't want to turn up to watch these guys play outside of once every four years.
How about we just don't even hire a coach? How about we just don't even play any "friendlies"? Why don't we just play some B team versus the Islands and then sit and prey we get past whatever team Asia chucks at us? Maybe we just shouldn't even bother with international football any more?
At the moment there is nothing to stop the likes of Wood, Rojas and Thomas doing the same - that is the problem we have. If anyone else decides to do it we are in the same boat as we are with Smith - we either accept it and hope that they change their minds, or we cut our noses off to spite our face. I would love to be in a position in 12 month's time where we have a better player to play centreback than Smith, or the position of any other player who wants to do this. I would actually want to see his face when the management team tell him it is nice that he has made himself available but he is no longer wanted and we will have fun in Russia without him. Problem is, without a raft of radioactive spiders biting ASB premier league players, that is unlikely to be the case. And that is just how it is.
In terms of the other players, well this is professional football and shit happens. Duncan Oughtan played a lot of games in qualifying for 2010 and then missed the squad for the world cup as other players made themselves available - it is not nice but it happens. I would rather play our best 11 in games that really matter (friendlies are good, but ultimately do not mean anything) than play the 11 who are the most dedicated to the team/squad/country.
I don't get this. On the one hand everyone wants the All Whites to play more games but then when we do they are just friendlies. Then we miss out on the World Cup and say "NZ Football needs to set higher standards and play more meaningful games." Then we do the exact same thing. Then we have a go at fans when they don't want to turn up to watch these guys play outside of once every four years.
How about we just don't even hire a coach? How about we just don't even play any "friendlies"? Why don't we just play some B team versus the Islands and then sit and prey we get past whatever team Asia chucks at us? Maybe we just shouldn't even bother with international football any more?
Good idea, maybe we just play the phoenix for all the oceania crap, and then hire a coach for the week of our world cup playoff. Saves money, and means our precious players don't have to slum it in business class on the way to some remote island on the arse end of the world.
Chris Rattue gives his 2 cents http://www.nzherald.co.nz/football-soccer/news/article.cfm?c_id=86&objectid=11308385
A few comments, equally as many about Rattues tiredness of thanking the lord!
Wed, 13 Aug 2014 9:35a.m.
New Zealand Football High Performance Manager Fred de Jong discusses Tommy Smith’s controversial omission from the All Whites squad. http://www.radiolivesport.co.nz/Fred-de-Jong/tabid/454/articleID/19798/Default.aspx
Thu, 14 Aug 2014 9:46a.m.
Former All Whites skipper Steve Sumner shares his thoughts about Tommy Smith’s decision to put his club career before national duty. http://www.radiolivesport.co.nz/Steve-Sumner/tabid/454/articleID/19818/Default.aspx
Blah blah blah about Tommy Smith
The point here is that NZF have gone along with it.
They are setting the precedents.
If Tommy is our best in his position in 2 years time or whenever we need him, he'll be in the team, or the coach isnt doing his job
Wed, 13 Aug 2014 9:35a.m.
New Zealand Football High Performance Manager Fred de Jong discusses Tommy Smith’s controversial omission from the All Whites squad. http://www.radiolivesport.co.nz/Fred-de-Jong/tabid/454/articleID/19798/Default.aspx
De Jong calling the kettle black. He did the same when playing at Fortuna Sittard but AW public awareness was not then like it is now.
Former all white tommy smiths side lost 0-1 to reading. Mid table again at best
who cares?
Bloody hell some of you moan at the silliest of things.Not as if he is the first to ever make himself unavailable,seem to recall a couple lot better than him who would pick and choose when they made them selves available.So should he really improve his game in the 12 months he takes off im guessing most of you still would not pick him.
Lots of other sports where players make themselves unavailable in the off years to big tornaments,im guessing from the reaction from most that NZ is that overloaded with talent we can just disregard players.
Bloody hell some of you moan at the silliest of things.
#irony
He's said give me a year... after this if he makes it or not we may see him fully commit. In which case I see no real harm, especially since we need to develop some depth at CB.
Bloody hell some of you moan at the silliest of things.Not as if he is the first to ever make himself unavailable,seem to recall a couple lot better than him who would pick and choose when they made them selves available.So should he really improve his game in the 12 months he takes off im guessing most of you still would not pick him.
Lots of other sports where players make themselves unavailable in the off years to big tornaments,im guessing from the reaction from most that NZ is that overloaded with talent we can just disregard players.
I think most people are miffed due to the way it has been handled rather than anything else. Why has Smith not been the one to front to say he was making himself unavailable? Why are we only getting information spoon fed through the media and third parties? Even then it seems contradictory at times.
If he wanted to focus on his club and build for the future then fine, that's his bread and butter and I'm not one to slag someone off to earn a living, especially in a time limited career. But he could at least not be a dick about it. He's been the country captain FFS! Show some fortitude and front some sort of media mouthpiece through an interview or whatever and then at least we have clarification directly from the source. And I've said it earlier in the thread, but it still puzzles me that others like Wood, Reid, Rojas, Thomas, etc still make themselves available to play - They face the same rigours of a long European season and trying to crack the big time, week in, week out too. So to me, it seems a pretty piss weak reason to withdraw from playing for your country, but whatever.
For all we know, his discussions with NZF could have been very amicable and he could have gone with their blessing. But the way it's all come out is just very unprofessional and smacks of him only having a penchant to make himself available if and when he pleases. People would die to have even a sniff of representing their country, at any level, in any walk of life.
If McCaw or Carter showed the same level of disinterest in representing their country their would be a national outcry - This is why football will always come second best to the oval ball in this country.