Marquee
1.3K
·
7.4K
·
almost 16 years

shushy6 wrote:

Darren Powell(Aug 6th) rightly cautions against oversimplification of the relationship between physical activity and obesity in schools.

 Meaningful sporting engagement has remained a priority in some schools, and indeed is compulsory. Some other schools are fortunate enough to have staff willing and able to drive sport for their young people.

 Unfortunately, when that is not the case, club based sport has become the focus for those who wish to be involved.

 Not only does this allow "opting out" for many, but the non school organisations set their own agendas which can conflict with the schools who have sustained their commitment to "sport for all".

 It is possible club-based sport offers a better experience in some instances, but not generally - and when it does it can undermine the school based experience for the majority.

 The place for sporting commitment, with all it offers way beyond mere physical fitness, is in schools,as an integral part of a balanced education.

Simon Leese

Headmaster

Christs College

Except the real life manifestation is entirely different

Secondary Schools simply leech of the top end the clubs have developed.

With any luck the First XI comp is Wednesday only  2015,  which is more of a conselation than they deserve but at least a step in the right direction.

WeeNix
68
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520
·
over 11 years

Rep teams are up for SI tournament.

http://www.mainlandfootball.co.nz/index.php?id=436

Marquee
1.3K
·
7.4K
·
almost 16 years

hopefully all selected (or not) are tucked up in bed

Starting XI
670
·
4.1K
·
over 17 years

Told you the weather would be shit.

Phoenix Academy
66
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390
·
almost 12 years

VimFuego wrote:

Told you the weather would be shit.

LOL Terrible it is..

Phoenix Academy
40
·
250
·
over 10 years

Saw the most appalling show of refereeing today in 14th Grade.

 I know Mainland has a directive for respecting decisions, but this guy today was just a cheat. Kids football and this guy was not going to let his team lose. Handballs in penalty box let go, fouls only one way, playing advantage(for non-existant fouls) for up to a minute then calling it back. Hope he felt good about ruining what should have been a great kids match.

WeeNix
68
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520
·
over 11 years

Sadly, this is part of the landscape now. Was it a Div 1 match (not that that alters anything)?

Marquee
1.3K
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7.4K
·
almost 16 years

I'm picking Nomads v Waimak D2

Marquee
1.3K
·
7.4K
·
almost 16 years

 3 Rounds to go, and another season cut. It seems to go faster  as you get older....

Marquee
1.3K
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7.4K
·
almost 16 years

Baba O'Riley wrote:

shushy6 wrote:

Why would they do that??? North Cant have a bloody shortage as it is. 

One has said North Canterbury not good enough for him ... another just did not bother to show up. 

Looking back over the teams it migt have happened in more than 1 grade

WeeNix
68
·
520
·
over 11 years

It rather embarrasses me as an observer (the impartial bit is still open to debate) that junior football is beset with biased referees who seem to think they are helping their team by blatant cheating, in the form of decisions that don't get made that may prove to be game changing.

 At 13 and 14 onwards, these boys know the rules pretty well and its pretty tough on them when a referee opts to turn a blind eye to fouls and dirty challenges, in favour of the home team, which result in boys who have been instructed to play the game by the rules and not to engage in similar tactics being at a decided disadvantage on game day. Its easy to teach players to play that way, and why not if the goal is results over development. Worse still, these boys were openly encouraging when one of their own kicked the opposition keeper in the face after he had the ball. 

There is a pretty high chance of serious injury if things like that go unpunished, so the referee needs to have the intestinal fortitude to make hard calls, lest the players take the law into their own hands (with predictable results!)

So I say shame on you referee! Learn your job sir, and make the game better for all, lest you besmirch Brookside Park further with your ineptitude (at best), or bias (at worst).

/rant 

Marquee
1.3K
·
7.4K
·
almost 16 years

if it's any consolation I got a genuine round of applause for reffing a Youth Game from both teams and supporters this morning.

Otherwise I feel your pain.

Phoenix Academy
150
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400
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over 12 years

shushy6 wrote:

It rather embarrasses me as an observer (the impartial bit is still open to debate) that junior football is beset with biased referees who seem to think they are helping their team by blatant cheating, in the form of decisions that don't get made that may prove to be game changing.

 At 13 and 14 onwards, these boys know the rules pretty well and its pretty tough on them when a referee opts to turn a blind eye to fouls and dirty challenges, in favour of the home team, which result in boys who have been instructed to play the game by the rules and not to engage in similar tactics being at a decided disadvantage on game day. Its easy to teach players to play that way, and why not if the goal is results over development. Worse still, these boys were openly encouraging when one of their own kicked the opposition keeper in the face after he had the ball. 

There is a pretty high chance of serious injury if things like that go unpunished, so the referee needs to have the intestinal fortitude to make hard calls, lest the players take the law into their own hands (with predictable results!)

So I say shame on you referee! Learn your job sir, and make the game better for all, lest you besmirch Brookside Park further with your ineptitude (at best), or bias (at worst).

/rant 

What was the game you are talking about? Was there this am with my daughter's game so saw a few games thee

WeeNix
68
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520
·
over 11 years

It was Selwyn vs  Coastal Spirit game.

Phoenix Academy
78
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450
·
over 11 years

Dinamo Chris wrote:

shushy6 wrote:

It rather embarrasses me as an observer (the impartial bit is still open to debate) that junior football is beset with biased referees who seem to think they are helping their team by blatant cheating, in the form of decisions that don't get made that may prove to be game changing.

 At 13 and 14 onwards, these boys know the rules pretty well and its pretty tough on them when a referee opts to turn a blind eye to fouls and dirty challenges, in favour of the home team, which result in boys who have been instructed to play the game by the rules and not to engage in similar tactics being at a decided disadvantage on game day. Its easy to teach players to play that way, and why not if the goal is results over development. Worse still, these boys were openly encouraging when one of their own kicked the opposition keeper in the face after he had the ball. 

There is a pretty high chance of serious injury if things like that go unpunished, so the referee needs to have the intestinal fortitude to make hard calls, lest the players take the law into their own hands (with predictable results!)

So I say shame on you referee! Learn your job sir, and make the game better for all, lest you besmirch Brookside Park further with your ineptitude (at best), or bias (at worst).

/rant 

What was the game you are talking about? Was there this am with my daughter's game so saw a few games thee

The best referees are usually the ones standing on the sidelines, all 30 of them knowing the rules better than the next and in particular the one that holds the whistle. None of them ever have bias. 

Phoenix Academy
150
·
400
·
over 12 years

Walked past that game on way home. Looked like alright game.  Coastal had couple of good players up front who looked skillful. Can't condone shit refereeing, especially if it on purpose. People like that are a blight on our game and if they associated with selwyn then hopefully they decide to move elsewhere next season. I've had many chats with the club president and sporting director and they both implore the develop side of things rather than results. If some of the parents knew how far development over results sometimes then selwyn may lose players (seeing it's win at all costs for many parents). Also if the players are encouraged to cheer a player getting kickedin the head then that saddens me. Definitely not the culture we want at the club. There is a clear difference between niggle/gobbing off at opposition and condoning dangerous play. I should know, I was a right gobby shit on the park. 

Trialist
3
·
36
·
almost 11 years

true comment -  to the last line above 

First Team Squad
75
·
1.3K
·
over 14 years

Nomads United & Kelly Sports have combined to run junior football skills clinics and games from October to April.

Just a shame they are listed as being in the East of the City on the Kelly website. 

Maybe with the state of Tulett Park they are going to go back to being Shirley Nomads.

WeeNix
110
·
720
·
over 11 years

That may have something to do with the fact the owners of the Christchurch East franchise are involved with Nomads as a club, hence the partnership. Whilst the owners (who are Belfast based) are currently managing the other Christchurch franchise, this is a stop gap measure so to ensure continuity the booking process just takes viewers to the Christchurch East aspect.

Further information can be found via the Nomads Facebook page as Academies will run on Monday evenings and a 5-a-side tournament on a Wednesday 

Trialist
5
·
39
·
about 10 years

Best of luck to Christ's College, Cashmere, Lincoln, Shirley BHS and for the first time ever, Rangiora High School, as they kick off in Napier tomorrow at the Lotto Premier HS football tournament.

Marquee
1.3K
·
7.4K
·
almost 16 years

Marian left for Taupo tournament today.

Stage Punch
2.1K
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11K
·
about 17 years

shushy6 wrote:

It rather embarrasses me as an observer (the impartial bit is still open to debate) that junior football is beset with biased referees who seem to think they are helping their team by blatant cheating, in the form of decisions that don't get made that may prove to be game changing.

 At 13 and 14 onwards, these boys know the rules pretty well and its pretty tough on them when a referee opts to turn a blind eye to fouls and dirty challenges, in favour of the home team, which result in boys who have been instructed to play the game by the rules and not to engage in similar tactics being at a decided disadvantage on game day. Its easy to teach players to play that way, and why not if the goal is results over development. Worse still, these boys were openly encouraging when one of their own kicked the opposition keeper in the face after he had the ball. 

There is a pretty high chance of serious injury if things like that go unpunished, so the referee needs to have the intestinal fortitude to make hard calls, lest the players take the law into their own hands (with predictable results!)

So I say shame on you referee! Learn your job sir, and make the game better for all, lest you besmirch Brookside Park further with your ineptitude (at best), or bias (at worst).

/rant 

 

In my experience of coaching youth players there are a number of points I reckon you've got wrong.

The first, and most glaring, is that teenage players know the rules. They don't. Generally they are making it up based on what their parents have told them or what they think they've seen on TV. They think they know the rules though. Kids that age think they know a lot of things.

The second is that it's easy to teach players to cheat. I don't think that's true either. I think it would take a deliberate and concerted effort to teach kids to play dirty. Most of them have a built in sense (from their parents) of the right way to do things. At least you'd hope they would do. And at that age what you'd really need to happen is for all those parents to endorse a coach's approach in teaching the kids to cheat. I find that unlikely but maybe I'm naive. 

I also call bullshit on the high chance of serious injury. In almost 15 years of coaching teenagers I've seen relatively few serious injuries, none of them deliberately inflicted by a bad challenge.

So I reckon your story shows a good degree of bias in and of itself. I reckon the opposing team probably has a different viewpoint. And I reckon you should chill out and maybe volunteer to referee more often. It's not easy.

Phoenix Academy
78
·
450
·
over 11 years

Smithy wrote:

shushy6 wrote:

It rather embarrasses me as an observer (the impartial bit is still open to debate) that junior football is beset with biased referees who seem to think they are helping their team by blatant cheating, in the form of decisions that don't get made that may prove to be game changing.

 At 13 and 14 onwards, these boys know the rules pretty well and its pretty tough on them when a referee opts to turn a blind eye to fouls and dirty challenges, in favour of the home team, which result in boys who have been instructed to play the game by the rules and not to engage in similar tactics being at a decided disadvantage on game day. Its easy to teach players to play that way, and why not if the goal is results over development. Worse still, these boys were openly encouraging when one of their own kicked the opposition keeper in the face after he had the ball. 

There is a pretty high chance of serious injury if things like that go unpunished, so the referee needs to have the intestinal fortitude to make hard calls, lest the players take the law into their own hands (with predictable results!)

So I say shame on you referee! Learn your job sir, and make the game better for all, lest you besmirch Brookside Park further with your ineptitude (at best), or bias (at worst).

/rant 

 

In my experience of coaching youth players there are a number of points I reckon you've got wrong.

The first, and most glaring, is that teenage players know the rules. They don't. Generally they are making it up based on what their parents have told them or what they think they've seen on TV. They think they know the rules though. Kids that age think they know a lot of things.

The second is that it's easy to teach players to cheat. I don't think that's true either. I think it would take a deliberate and concerted effort to teach kids to play dirty. Most of them have a built in sense (from their parents) of the right way to do things. At least you'd hope they would do. And at that age what you'd really need to happen is for all those parents to endorse a coach's approach in teaching the kids to cheat. I find that unlikely but maybe I'm naive. 

I also call bullshit on the high chance of serious injury. In almost 15 years of coaching teenagers I've seen relatively few serious injuries, none of them deliberately inflicted by a bad challenge.

So I reckon your story shows a good degree of bias in and of itself. I reckon the opposing team probably has a different viewpoint. And I reckon you should chill out and maybe volunteer to referee more often. It's not easy.

Thank you Smithy for a sober unbiased view.

I have been waiting for Sushy's report on last Saturday's match against the very same team, at the very same venue. Different (considerably less but still well qualified!) referee from the one Sushy referred to in his post. 

Witnessed first hand his parents appealing the referee for strong but mostly perfectly legal challenges against their team as they did in the first match, only to "miss" every single one that went the other way.

At half time their supplied AR wanted to move to the other side of the field to "stay with his team" to continue flagging opposing team's offsides. When referee asked AR's to remain on the side they were on, strangely he managed to miss most of his own team's offsides.....

So - since clearly you are only interested in reporting one, that is your side of the story, one could safely assume Smithy is 100% correct in his take on the situation.

Both referees do know their job and will remain regular referees at Brookside Park along with all the others that are prepared to put up with biased uninformed and uneducated "supporters".  

Phoenix Academy
150
·
400
·
over 12 years

10cc wrote:

Smithy wrote:

[quote=shushy6]

It rather embarrasses me as an observer (the impartial bit is still open to debate) that junior football is beset with biased referees who seem to think they are helping their team by blatant cheating, in the form of decisions that don't get made that may prove to be game changing.

 At 13 and 14 onwards, these boys know the rules pretty well and its pretty tough on them when a referee opts to turn a blind eye to fouls and dirty challenges, in favour of the home team, which result in boys who have been instructed to play the game by the rules and not to engage in similar tactics being at a decided disadvantage on game day. Its easy to teach players to play that way, and why not if the goal is results over development. Worse still, these boys were openly encouraging when one of their own kicked the opposition keeper in the face after he had the ball. 

There is a pretty high chance of serious injury if things like that go unpunished, so the referee needs to have the intestinal fortitude to make hard calls, lest the players take the law into their own hands (with predictable results!)

So I say shame on you referee! Learn your job sir, and make the game better for all, lest you besmirch Brookside Park further with your ineptitude (at best), or bias (at worst).

/rant 

 

Both referees do know their job and will remain regular referees at Brookside Park along with all the others that are prepared to put up with biased uninformed and uneducated "supporters".  

Isn't this the reason why a lot of referees flag the job (excuse the pun)

Phoenix Academy
46
·
220
·
over 11 years

Some folks are very short sighted. Once upon a time a gent from Stop Out came to me

at the start of a 12 year-olds match and said he hoped that I as ref would prevent the

savaging of his keeper that went on during our previous match with them. I said that if

this happened I would take our striker off. However, I said the foresaid previous game was

reffed by Steve Sargent who was a FIFA ref and who on other days did internationals before

20,000 people in Tahiti etc. If our lad had done anything wrong I was sure Steve would have

intervened. The SO man wandered off, saying I didn't have a clue.

WeeNix
68
·
520
·
over 11 years

Smithy wrote:

shushy6 wrote:

It rather embarrasses me as an observer (the impartial bit is still open to debate) that junior football is beset with biased referees who seem to think they are helping their team by blatant cheating, in the form of decisions that don't get made that may prove to be game changing.

 At 13 and 14 onwards, these boys know the rules pretty well and its pretty tough on them when a referee opts to turn a blind eye to fouls and dirty challenges, in favour of the home team, which result in boys who have been instructed to play the game by the rules and not to engage in similar tactics being at a decided disadvantage on game day. Its easy to teach players to play that way, and why not if the goal is results over development. Worse still, these boys were openly encouraging when one of their own kicked the opposition keeper in the face after he had the ball. 

There is a pretty high chance of serious injury if things like that go unpunished, so the referee needs to have the intestinal fortitude to make hard calls, lest the players take the law into their own hands (with predictable results!)

So I say shame on you referee! Learn your job sir, and make the game better for all, lest you besmirch Brookside Park further with your ineptitude (at best), or bias (at worst).

/rant 

 

In my experience of coaching youth players there are a number of points I reckon you've got wrong.

The first, and most glaring, is that teenage players know the rules. They don't. Generally they are making it up based on what their parents have told them or what they think they've seen on TV. They think they know the rules though. Kids that age think they know a lot of things.

The second is that it's easy to teach players to cheat. I don't think that's true either. I think it would take a deliberate and concerted effort to teach kids to play dirty. Most of them have a built in sense (from their parents) of the right way to do things. At least you'd hope they would do. And at that age what you'd really need to happen is for all those parents to endorse a coach's approach in teaching the kids to cheat. I find that unlikely but maybe I'm naive. 

I also call bullshit on the high chance of serious injury. In almost 15 years of coaching teenagers I've seen relatively few serious injuries, none of them deliberately inflicted by a bad challenge.

So I reckon your story shows a good degree of bias in and of itself. I reckon the opposing team probably has a different viewpoint. And I reckon you should chill out and maybe volunteer to referee more often. It's not easy.

I am not talking about the intricacies of the offside rule, or what constitutes an indirect or a direct free kick here. I am talking about a foul tackle (deliberate or not) that was not given as a free kick of any sort.

Alright, perhaps a concerted attempt to teach kids en masse to cheat is a bit far fetched, but what about a culture of borderline physicality, the consequences of which are made less by a degree of protection from club referees, which might lead to pushing those boundaries of physicality into excess? Not unrealistic really, but whatever.

As for serious injury, I suppose nobody tore an ACL no, so I will limit the parameters of my description to "injuries that would render a player unable to continue playing that game, and possibly the next one, or missing training the next session". Stomping on the odd metatarsal, studs in the ankle/achilles etc etc

I am pretty relaxed thanks, and I referee plenty, even when I cop shit from coaches who accuse me of not knowing the rules when sending a player off, then letting said coach know he could replace the player to maintain 11v11, rather than ruin the game. Youth football is about learning after all. And I was pretty open about my bias too. Had the boot been on the other foot I would have said the exact same thing, probably to the referee directly I should think.

WeeNix
68
·
520
·
over 11 years

10cc wrote:

Smithy wrote:

shushy6 wrote:

It rather embarrasses me as an observer (the impartial bit is still open to debate) that junior football is beset with biased referees who seem to think they are helping their team by blatant cheating, in the form of decisions that don't get made that may prove to be game changing.

 At 13 and 14 onwards, these boys know the rules pretty well and its pretty tough on them when a referee opts to turn a blind eye to fouls and dirty challenges, in favour of the home team, which result in boys who have been instructed to play the game by the rules and not to engage in similar tactics being at a decided disadvantage on game day. Its easy to teach players to play that way, and why not if the goal is results over development. Worse still, these boys were openly encouraging when one of their own kicked the opposition keeper in the face after he had the ball. 

There is a pretty high chance of serious injury if things like that go unpunished, so the referee needs to have the intestinal fortitude to make hard calls, lest the players take the law into their own hands (with predictable results!)

So I say shame on you referee! Learn your job sir, and make the game better for all, lest you besmirch Brookside Park further with your ineptitude (at best), or bias (at worst).

/rant 

 

In my experience of coaching youth players there are a number of points I reckon you've got wrong.

The first, and most glaring, is that teenage players know the rules. They don't. Generally they are making it up based on what their parents have told them or what they think they've seen on TV. They think they know the rules though. Kids that age think they know a lot of things.

The second is that it's easy to teach players to cheat. I don't think that's true either. I think it would take a deliberate and concerted effort to teach kids to play dirty. Most of them have a built in sense (from their parents) of the right way to do things. At least you'd hope they would do. And at that age what you'd really need to happen is for all those parents to endorse a coach's approach in teaching the kids to cheat. I find that unlikely but maybe I'm naive. 

I also call bullshit on the high chance of serious injury. In almost 15 years of coaching teenagers I've seen relatively few serious injuries, none of them deliberately inflicted by a bad challenge.

So I reckon your story shows a good degree of bias in and of itself. I reckon the opposing team probably has a different viewpoint. And I reckon you should chill out and maybe volunteer to referee more often. It's not easy.

Thank you Smithy for a sober unbiased view.

I have been waiting for Sushy's report on last Saturday's match against the very same team, at the very same venue. Different (considerably less but still well qualified!) referee from the one Sushy referred to in his post. 

Witnessed first hand his parents appealing the referee for strong but mostly perfectly legal challenges against their team as they did in the first match, only to "miss" every single one that went the other way.

At half time their supplied AR wanted to move to the other side of the field to "stay with his team" to continue flagging opposing team's offsides. When referee asked AR's to remain on the side they were on, strangely he managed to miss most of his own team's offsides.....

So - since clearly you are only interested in reporting one, that is your side of the story, one could safely assume Smithy is 100% correct in his take on the situation.

Both referees do know their job and will remain regular referees at Brookside Park along with all the others that are prepared to put up with biased uninformed and uneducated "supporters".  

Apologies. I was not aware anybody was waiting for one! Last Saturdays game I cant say I saw anything that really upset me as far as the officiating goes, other than the referee from the previous game coaching the bloody team!!  

Please see concerns about bias in my initial post...

No problem with the decision on the AR. Didnt see it or hear the discussion but meh. Makes sense to stay on one side for continuity etc. He was wrong twice that I saw and one of them the CS folk got on his back about it too!

I might be offended at being called biased,uninformed and uneducated all in one sentence too. I believe the correct terminology is ill educated...

Starting XI
120
·
2.7K
·
over 17 years

Jamaica Road wrote:

Best of luck to Christ's College, Cashmere, Lincoln, Shirley BHS and for the first time ever, Rangiora High School, as they kick off in Napier tomorrow at the Lotto Premier HS football tournament.

No CBHS?
Trialist
5
·
39
·
about 10 years

As far as I know, the 4 Canterbury schools that qualified for the Lotto Premier tournament in Napier are Christs, Cashmere, Lincoln & Rangiora HS. 

Shirley BHS is the wildcard

WeeNix
68
·
520
·
over 11 years

Smithy wrote:

shushy6 wrote:

It rather embarrasses me as an observer (the impartial bit is still open to debate) that junior football is beset with biased referees who seem to think they are helping their team by blatant cheating, in the form of decisions that don't get made that may prove to be game changing.

 At 13 and 14 onwards, these boys know the rules pretty well and its pretty tough on them when a referee opts to turn a blind eye to fouls and dirty challenges, in favour of the home team, which result in boys who have been instructed to play the game by the rules and not to engage in similar tactics being at a decided disadvantage on game day. Its easy to teach players to play that way, and why not if the goal is results over development. Worse still, these boys were openly encouraging when one of their own kicked the opposition keeper in the face after he had the ball. 

There is a pretty high chance of serious injury if things like that go unpunished, so the referee needs to have the intestinal fortitude to make hard calls, lest the players take the law into their own hands (with predictable results!)

So I say shame on you referee! Learn your job sir, and make the game better for all, lest you besmirch Brookside Park further with your ineptitude (at best), or bias (at worst).

/rant 

 

In my experience of coaching youth players there are a number of points I reckon you've got wrong.

The first, and most glaring, is that teenage players know the rules. They don't. Generally they are making it up based on what their parents have told them or what they think they've seen on TV. They think they know the rules though. Kids that age think they know a lot of things.

The second is that it's easy to teach players to cheat. I don't think that's true either. I think it would take a deliberate and concerted effort to teach kids to play dirty. Most of them have a built in sense (from their parents) of the right way to do things. At least you'd hope they would do. And at that age what you'd really need to happen is for all those parents to endorse a coach's approach in teaching the kids to cheat. I find that unlikely but maybe I'm naive.

I have read over this again and, leaving aside the topic of original discussion, both of these statements could pretty much (in my opinion as an uneducated and uninformed supporter of clear bias) negate one another. 

You state in one that kids (most) do not actually know the rules, they only think they do based on what their parents etc tell them, and their own interpretation based on TV footage etc (probably even  FIFA 14...). In the next section you use terms like "deliberate and concerted effort" which implies that the parents know the rules and wilfully then teach the kids how to break them/bend them. But what if the parents don't know? Not all of them do, and they are dependent on "the guy with the English accent" who clearly by way of lucky birth geography knows all about football, to show them what's what.

I am not suggesting that you are naive, and I am sure as shit not trying to imply that this very scenario is what is the situation at Selwyn, but it(in my mind anyway) is most certainly to some degree or other a possibility, no matter where you are (possible exceptions include Spain and Germany). It gets less so as the boys get older, simply because of length of exposure to the game by previously unknowing parents, and the theory of osmosis.

How say you? 

Stage Punch
2.1K
·
11K
·
about 17 years

shushy6 wrote:

Smithy wrote:

shushy6 wrote:

It rather embarrasses me as an observer (the impartial bit is still open to debate) that junior football is beset with biased referees who seem to think they are helping their team by blatant cheating, in the form of decisions that don't get made that may prove to be game changing.

 At 13 and 14 onwards, these boys know the rules pretty well and its pretty tough on them when a referee opts to turn a blind eye to fouls and dirty challenges, in favour of the home team, which result in boys who have been instructed to play the game by the rules and not to engage in similar tactics being at a decided disadvantage on game day. Its easy to teach players to play that way, and why not if the goal is results over development. Worse still, these boys were openly encouraging when one of their own kicked the opposition keeper in the face after he had the ball. 

There is a pretty high chance of serious injury if things like that go unpunished, so the referee needs to have the intestinal fortitude to make hard calls, lest the players take the law into their own hands (with predictable results!)

So I say shame on you referee! Learn your job sir, and make the game better for all, lest you besmirch Brookside Park further with your ineptitude (at best), or bias (at worst).

/rant 

 

In my experience of coaching youth players there are a number of points I reckon you've got wrong.

The first, and most glaring, is that teenage players know the rules. They don't. Generally they are making it up based on what their parents have told them or what they think they've seen on TV. They think they know the rules though. Kids that age think they know a lot of things.

The second is that it's easy to teach players to cheat. I don't think that's true either. I think it would take a deliberate and concerted effort to teach kids to play dirty. Most of them have a built in sense (from their parents) of the right way to do things. At least you'd hope they would do. And at that age what you'd really need to happen is for all those parents to endorse a coach's approach in teaching the kids to cheat. I find that unlikely but maybe I'm naive. 

I also call bullshit on the high chance of serious injury. In almost 15 years of coaching teenagers I've seen relatively few serious injuries, none of them deliberately inflicted by a bad challenge.

So I reckon your story shows a good degree of bias in and of itself. I reckon the opposing team probably has a different viewpoint. And I reckon you should chill out and maybe volunteer to referee more often. It's not easy.

I am not talking about the intricacies of the offside rule, or what constitutes an indirect or a direct free kick here. I am talking about a foul tackle (deliberate or not) that was not given as a free kick of any sort.

Alright, perhaps a concerted attempt to teach kids en masse to cheat is a bit far fetched, but what about a culture of borderline physicality, the consequences of which are made less by a degree of protection from club referees, which might lead to pushing those boundaries of physicality into excess? Not unrealistic really, but whatever.

As for serious injury, I suppose nobody tore an ACL no, so I will limit the parameters of my description to "injuries that would render a player unable to continue playing that game, and possibly the next one, or missing training the next session". Stomping on the odd metatarsal, studs in the ankle/achilles etc etc

I am pretty relaxed thanks, and I referee plenty, even when I cop shit from coaches who accuse me of not knowing the rules when sending a player off, then letting said coach know he could replace the player to maintain 11v11, rather than ruin the game. Youth football is about learning after all. And I was pretty open about my bias too. Had the boot been on the other foot I would have said the exact same thing, probably to the referee directly I should think.

 

All I'm going to say is that I do not believe the part in bold to be correct.

Stage Punch
2.1K
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11K
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about 17 years

shushy6 wrote:

Smithy wrote:

shushy6 wrote:

It rather embarrasses me as an observer (the impartial bit is still open to debate) that junior football is beset with biased referees who seem to think they are helping their team by blatant cheating, in the form of decisions that don't get made that may prove to be game changing.

 At 13 and 14 onwards, these boys know the rules pretty well and its pretty tough on them when a referee opts to turn a blind eye to fouls and dirty challenges, in favour of the home team, which result in boys who have been instructed to play the game by the rules and not to engage in similar tactics being at a decided disadvantage on game day. Its easy to teach players to play that way, and why not if the goal is results over development. Worse still, these boys were openly encouraging when one of their own kicked the opposition keeper in the face after he had the ball. 

There is a pretty high chance of serious injury if things like that go unpunished, so the referee needs to have the intestinal fortitude to make hard calls, lest the players take the law into their own hands (with predictable results!)

So I say shame on you referee! Learn your job sir, and make the game better for all, lest you besmirch Brookside Park further with your ineptitude (at best), or bias (at worst).

/rant 

 

In my experience of coaching youth players there are a number of points I reckon you've got wrong.

The first, and most glaring, is that teenage players know the rules. They don't. Generally they are making it up based on what their parents have told them or what they think they've seen on TV. They think they know the rules though. Kids that age think they know a lot of things.

The second is that it's easy to teach players to cheat. I don't think that's true either. I think it would take a deliberate and concerted effort to teach kids to play dirty. Most of them have a built in sense (from their parents) of the right way to do things. At least you'd hope they would do. And at that age what you'd really need to happen is for all those parents to endorse a coach's approach in teaching the kids to cheat. I find that unlikely but maybe I'm naive.

I have read over this again and, leaving aside the topic of original discussion, both of these statements could pretty much (in my opinion as an uneducated and uninformed supporter of clear bias) negate one another. 

You state in one that kids (most) do not actually know the rules, they only think they do based on what their parents etc tell them, and their own interpretation based on TV footage etc (probably even  FIFA 14...). In the next section you use terms like "deliberate and concerted effort" which implies that the parents know the rules and wilfully then teach the kids how to break them/bend them. But what if the parents don't know? Not all of them do, and they are dependent on "the guy with the English accent" who clearly by way of lucky birth geography knows all about football, to show them what's what.

I am not suggesting that you are naive, and I am sure as shit not trying to imply that this very scenario is what is the situation at Selwyn, but it(in my mind anyway) is most certainly to some degree or other a possibility, no matter where you are (possible exceptions include Spain and Germany). It gets less so as the boys get older, simply because of length of exposure to the game by previously unknowing parents, and the theory of osmosis.

How say you? 

 

The two points stood on their own.

I do not believe most young teenagers have a comprehensive grasp of the rules. They are young, and inexperienced, and will thus reflect the understanding of those around them.

The second point you made is that a coach was teaching a team to cheat. And that it was easy to do. I do not believe this is the case. In order to teach a team to be a team of cheats, you would need the buy in of the parents who are the moral compass of their children. That is a considerable thing to orchestrate, to get a whole team to buy in to cheating. And I think you were being hysterical.

Not having been there it's impossible for me to say with any authority at all, but based purely on the tone and content of your posts I doubt your interpretation of events.

Phoenix Academy
78
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450
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over 11 years

"they are dependent on "the guy with the English accent" who clearly by way of lucky birth geography knows all about football, to show them what's what.".......

Yep - Hysterical; and that is from several who were there (admittedly not with English accent so totally clueless about football).

WeeNix
68
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520
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over 11 years

10cc wrote:

"they are dependent on "the guy with the English accent" who clearly by way of lucky birth geography knows all about football, to show them what's what.".......

Yep - Hysterical; and that is from several who were there (admittedly not with English accent so totally clueless about football).

Just so its really crystal clear for those who only read the last page, I am not asking this in relation to the game last week or whenever. It is a stand alone question that only came up as a thought tangent to the original topic/issue. References to the english accent etc are merely examples. I am not sure you have grasped that...
WeeNix
68
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520
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over 11 years

Smithy wrote:

shushy6 wrote:

Smithy wrote:

shushy6 wrote:

It rather embarrasses me as an observer (the impartial bit is still open to debate) that junior football is beset with biased referees who seem to think they are helping their team by blatant cheating, in the form of decisions that don't get made that may prove to be game changing.

 At 13 and 14 onwards, these boys know the rules pretty well and its pretty tough on them when a referee opts to turn a blind eye to fouls and dirty challenges, in favour of the home team, which result in boys who have been instructed to play the game by the rules and not to engage in similar tactics being at a decided disadvantage on game day. Its easy to teach players to play that way, and why not if the goal is results over development. Worse still, these boys were openly encouraging when one of their own kicked the opposition keeper in the face after he had the ball. 

There is a pretty high chance of serious injury if things like that go unpunished, so the referee needs to have the intestinal fortitude to make hard calls, lest the players take the law into their own hands (with predictable results!)

So I say shame on you referee! Learn your job sir, and make the game better for all, lest you besmirch Brookside Park further with your ineptitude (at best), or bias (at worst).

/rant 

 

In my experience of coaching youth players there are a number of points I reckon you've got wrong.

The first, and most glaring, is that teenage players know the rules. They don't. Generally they are making it up based on what their parents have told them or what they think they've seen on TV. They think they know the rules though. Kids that age think they know a lot of things.

The second is that it's easy to teach players to cheat. I don't think that's true either. I think it would take a deliberate and concerted effort to teach kids to play dirty. Most of them have a built in sense (from their parents) of the right way to do things. At least you'd hope they would do. And at that age what you'd really need to happen is for all those parents to endorse a coach's approach in teaching the kids to cheat. I find that unlikely but maybe I'm naive.

I have read over this again and, leaving aside the topic of original discussion, both of these statements could pretty much (in my opinion as an uneducated and uninformed supporter of clear bias) negate one another. 

You state in one that kids (most) do not actually know the rules, they only think they do based on what their parents etc tell them, and their own interpretation based on TV footage etc (probably even  FIFA 14...). In the next section you use terms like "deliberate and concerted effort" which implies that the parents know the rules and wilfully then teach the kids how to break them/bend them. But what if the parents don't know? Not all of them do, and they are dependent on "the guy with the English accent" who clearly by way of lucky birth geography knows all about football, to show them what's what.

I am not suggesting that you are naive, and I am sure as shit not trying to imply that this very scenario is what is the situation at Selwyn, but it(in my mind anyway) is most certainly to some degree or other a possibility, no matter where you are (possible exceptions include Spain and Germany). It gets less so as the boys get older, simply because of length of exposure to the game by previously unknowing parents, and the theory of osmosis.

How say you? 

 

The two points stood on their own.

I do not believe most young teenagers have a comprehensive grasp of the rules. They are young, and inexperienced, and will thus reflect the understanding of those around them.

The second point you made is that a coach was teaching a team to cheat. And that it was easy to do. I do not believe this is the case. In order to teach a team to be a team of cheats, you would need the buy in of the parents who are the moral compass of their children. That is a considerable thing to orchestrate, to get a whole team to buy in to cheating. And I think you were being hysterical.

Not having been there it's impossible for me to say with any authority at all, but based purely on the tone and content of your posts I doubt your interpretation of events.

I would have been better to just not have said anything. My recent post was around the general issue, not the game in which my clearly warped and now hysterical mind was lost. Do you doubt the reference to the theory of the blind leading the blind? 
Marquee
1.2K
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5.5K
·
almost 14 years

Ronaldoknow wrote:

Jamaica Road wrote:

Best of luck to Christ's College, Cashmere, Lincoln, Shirley BHS and for the first time ever, Rangiora High School, as they kick off in Napier tomorrow at the Lotto Premier HS football tournament.

No CBHS?

No, don't know reason why CBHS not there, but I see that from Mainland, Nelson Coll. playing for 5-8th, Cashmere 9-12th, Lincoln & Christs 17-24th, Shirley 25-28th, Rangiora 29-32. #schoolsoutofsaturdayfooty

Legend
1.8K
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22K
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almost 16 years

I can confirm that 14 year olds do not know the LOTG.

Starting XI
670
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4.1K
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over 17 years

Word on the street as schools may very well be out of Satdy footy in 2015.  Fingers crossed. 

Phoenix Academy
78
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450
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over 11 years

VimFuego wrote:

Word on the street as schools may very well be out of Satdy footy in 2015.  Fingers crossed. 

What I heard. No more need for dual rego's and breaking FIFA rules....surpisingly simple.

Marquee
1.3K
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7.4K
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almost 16 years

not quite yet.

Hopefully 2015 all First XI is standalone comp on Wednesday.the rest get weaned out over the following couple of years.

Be great if it happens.

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