A-league Expansion - Derbies

FFA needed us to make up the numbers when there weren't enough teams to make a decent competition, and GCU and NQF were withdrawn. Setting up WSW was a slow and painful process so they had no reason to ditch us then.

If there are enough financially stable clubs in the comp that are local (= not in NZ) then FFA has a stake in not wasting FOX money on us when SKY TV does not contribute enough.  

We can win / retain public support in Australia (either with clubs or the public) for our retention if we play well, give playing spots to young Australians, provide good opposition etc.   That is because it is an Australian comp, not an international or Transtasman comp. Anybody who thinks we have a god-given right to be there needs to pull their head out of the sand.

If we play like crap then it is fair of Bosnich to ask "what is the Nix contribution to the comp".  If we play well, some of this criticism will go away. I look at at it like the proverbial "glass ceiling" situation, where we have to do better than most to be considered a part of the comp on our merit. That includes copping the referee bias and so on. 

While I do agree with this, I really think this argument highlights the poor attitude of many in Australia.  

The A-League is far from unusual having foreign teams play in it (English, French, Italian, Swiss, American etc).  

The model closest to the A-League, MLS,  has a number of Canadian teams and the Yanks quite like that, interesting really when their are loads of cities in the US without a team with populations larger than most Oceanian cities.  

For the A-League be a success it needs to be more like that and less like the introverted mess certain people on the "west" island keep crying out for.

Canberra to have 'clear path' into the 2020/21 season.

The Canberra A-League bid team are confident they'll join the competition in two years after meeting with Football Federation Australia officials in Sydney on Friday.

A-League boss Greg O'Rourke met with bid team duo Michael Caggiano and Bede Gahan who brought Queanbeyan federal politician Mike Kelly.

Canberra was seeking feedback after missing out on A-League expansion last week and following the sit down they're confident of a "clear path" to the competition.

Canberra is the only failed bid the FFA are working with and it's understood the capital and Brisbane are next in line for expansion.

The bid's backers are an overseas sports consortiumwho are coming to Australia to meet FFA officials next month.

FFA deputy chair Heather Reid backed Canberra to join the A-League within two years and Caggiano is confident of that timeline after meeting with O'Rourke.

"It's not if but when we get a team. We're meeting them again next week, that's how fast this is moving," Caggiano said.

"We left the meeting with a clear path to Canberra being in the A-League and our plans are towards kicking off in 2020-21 season.

"The next step for us is to working with FFA to make sure we give them everything they need to give us a licence and we’re doing that in the next two months."

The next FFA board meeting is in February and it's understood Canberra will be on the agenda as the bid team look to seal the deal in the next six months.

Kelly has long been a supporter of the Canberra bid and challenged the FFA on their promise that Canberra was the next cab off the rank.

The politician reminded the room that same promise was made nine years ago.The FFA sold Ivan Slavich the A-League dream for three years after rejecting his bid in 2009, but they never came good on their word.

Kelly asked why this time would be different and O'Rourke assured the trio the goal posts had changed and Canberra wouldn't be strung along again.

The ACT is one of the fastest-growing populations in Australia and the corporate sector has strengthened dramatically over the past decade.

Canberra sports fans are crying out for an indoor Civic Stadium and an A-League team would justify the $400 million project.

Western Melbourne and Macarthur South West Sydney won the expansion race and paid a combined $30 million for their licences.

Canberra would have to cover its costs until the next broadcast deal in 2022 which would be around $13 million annually.

And they can fudge off with all this shark:

Canberra want to win a licence in their own right but something undeniably working in their favour is the looming demise of the Wellington Phoenix.

To extend their licence past next season Wellington have been set metrics around crowds and television numbers which they're almost no chance of hitting.

In a best case scenario Canberra would form a 13-team competition in the 2020-21 season but the reality is if they're successful they'll likely be replacing the Phoenix.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/canberra-has-clear-path-to-join-a-league-in-2020-20181221-p50np1.html

The new independent A-League management can't come soon enough for me so we can get away for this anti-Nix cr*p some sections of the Aussie media keep throwing at us. 

I hear Domey was in Sydney for an all day meeting on Wed or Thurs. Although that might have been to organise the stealing of our Home game away from us. 

It all depends on the broadcast rights money though. If the privately owned A-League views the spending of FOX money differently from FFA then we have future.  

All that crap talk about "likely demise" is simply another way of saying "we do not want to be spending our FOX money on you". This is what "achieving the near-impossible metrics" really means. Everything else is just hot air.

Credit to the Canberra bid here, they're not getting involved.

post a link to tweet can’t find it on their twtter

That's Facebook, not Twitter

To be clear, this arrangement is independent of anything that happens with Wellington or any other existing club.

— Canberra Region ALeague (@CBRRegionHAL) December 21, 2018

I'd like to think people in Canberra want us to remain.  I'm sure they'd have more kinship with us then teams in Melbourne or Sydney, especially after the latest round of expansion.

Capital cities derby!

Interesting...

The article

I always thought it should be CCM that lost their team. I genuinely don't see what they bring (apart from points). But obviously the jingoism on the aussies part that they would prefer the only foreign team to suffer. 

They have a nice looking stadium. I'll miss the palm trees and sauce bottles.

I did not want to take this as to factual in case it did not come off. But the Canberra bid team has posted on FB and Twitter their inclusion (If it goes ahead "Greg O'Rouke" statement) would not effect any other team. O'Rouke has stated the FFA have sat down with all failed bidders who asked for a meeting to clarify why they did not make it.

March 19 deadline for NLWG  Then FFA puts it to vote by the Federation as AAPFC gave their restructure vote away to get the vote to roll SLowy. 

They have won actual titles though tbf.

So have Preston North End

Preston North End still exist as a football club.

What an odd comparison...

I guess what Doloras is saying that like CCM, Preston NE have won a top flight title (actually twice - the last being in 1888/89!!).

But now most of us would know squat about them today. They haven't been in the English top flight since the 1960/61 season, and have spent 28 of the 49 seasons since 1970, in the bottom two divisions. Thanks Wiki.

That could be the CCM in 50 years - esp if an A2 League is introduced with pro/rel, ie Mariners end up spending most of that half century outside the A1 League. A battling club with a small fanbase, that remembers the halcyon days of that early A League title. 

Possible.

Lighting a fire under A-League

"Western Melbourne Group believe their impending entry into the A-League will help re-energize a competition in need of “a spark”."

I’d be sad if CCM disbanded. They should be playing in a lower league, not have their existence threatened...

Why we need pro/rel

I would keep them in the League. Sure, they're having a crap time of it for the last few seasons but it's not like that is something not new to us either. 

Swings and roundabouts, one day they'll come good again.

MSW United

West Melbourne Group Getting up n running

How would this work for the phoenix? Pro/Rel will be the death of the nix, surely.

Why?

my opinion is Promotion Relegation is at least 5 years away. 

Where would the nix be relegated to, exactly? The oz second tier? Who would meet the increases travel costs for the rest of that competition? Feels unworkable.

I'd assume if there was ever to be a second division then it would be a nationwide one so costs will be part of competing as it is now (it's probably cheaper to go from Melbourne to Wellington than Melbourne to Perth). But given the A-League is only just working now and previous attempts at expansion have ended with teams going bust or getting kicked out, I think they'll be alot more than 5 years away

Well obviously an A2 or 2nd division. 

Who knows how it would work exactly. Parachute payments?

The core 5k fans would still turn up, as it would still be the highest level football in Wellington and probably the country. 

Who knows maybe more would turn up, if was a successful A2 side gunning for promotion ie winning more than losing. As opposed to a struggling A1 side with a depressed air about it.

You would think an A2 side would also be cheaper to run, as lower player wages. Of course potentially lower sponsorship revenue dollars etc as not in the top tier.

Anyway it’s all hypothetical until an A2 league is formed. No one likes to see their club relegated, but I don’t see pro/rel as a gteed death of the Nix.

Would they allow an A2 Nix back into A1 if they won A2? You know the Aussies, change the rules and metrics to suit.

From the Australian point of view - far easier to just boot the Nix out altogether.

If/When the A-League goes independent I don't think the owners would want an open Pro/Rel system between the A-League and state leagues but they would probably implement a national 2nd Tier if it retains the closed system we have. I think the Nix would be fine in that case.

If it opens to state leagues and they're added as a 3rd tier then either the Nix are gone, or (and I know this is a big ask) you add the Handy Prem at that level and NZ franchises go all in with the Aussie system.

Or they can do what the MLS does and keep expanding to avoid getting stale and keep all the teams in 1 division. I don't see any issues with that /sarcasm.

But I still can't see where all the cash is coming from to run all these extra clubs? It's all a bit fanciful at the moment but will see if the league/clubs become profitable when more of the TV money is going to the clubs and not the FFA.

Keeping it as a closed shop, but with 2 divisions I think is a likely outcome - certainly initially.

Two divisions is inevitable, and could happen quicker than people think. There seems to be an increasing appetite for it in Australia.

https://www.ftbl.com.au/news/ffa-second-division-o...

An A2 league with a lower wages salary cap, and maybe even a Conference type system to reduce some travel costs (though most of the new clubs would still be clustered along the Aus eastern seaboard) - would help make it financially viable.

For example if the Nix need 10K crowds to supposedly breakeven in the A League, maybe it's an estimated 5K crowd to break even in the A2 League. Parachute payment to the A1 team relegated.

Maybe is a shorter season for A2, that just runs in between winter state NPL seasons. So some players could even hammer their bodies and try play both, to increase their incomes.

If it's a closed shop, no doubt there will be some angry NPL clubs who miss out, and will just have to make do with the FFA Cup.

Lots of potential issues to work through, but I have no doubt it's on it's way. Be interesting to see if ACFC want to be part of it.

isn't a large part of the break even cost the stadium cost? that's not going to reduce if any team gets relegated, unless they move stadium

Stadiums are definitely a big issue although more clubs seem to be looking at developing/using smaller grounds.

I think with 2 divisions you could probably catch all of the NPL teams that want in especially if you eventually expand to 20 teams in each division. 

They just need to front up with the licence fee cash.

Association of professional Football Clubs Australia  -Statement on Pro/Rel

It is also the shared view of the APFCA membership that a fully-expanded League model must be achieved and sustained before the introduction of promotion and relegation can be considered.

For promotion and relegation to be achieved it is imperative that a second-tier of Australian football is established and evolved in order to create appropriate football and economic proximity between the two tiers. Only in this way can the second-tier produce promoted clubs with the capacity to compete in the A-League and at the same time receive relegated A-League Clubs without catastrophic economic impact for the relegated club. The investment and time horizon for achieving a second-tier of this calibre should not be underestimated. APFCA is committed to playing its part.

Sauce

Once the A League becomes independent, then any of these teams vying for a Licence will have a chance to sort themselves out off the field and make it easier to allow expansion. Rather that than replacing. I'd like to see NQF and GCU back in the fold.

So basically a 2nd division/A2 league may be up & going within a few seasons.

However it maybe several seasons after that, before introducing pro/rel is considered, ie the 2nd division would need to prove itself as a commercial viable model first.

Makes some sense.