A-league Expansion - Derbies

Look at it this way: USA and Canada can't do it with a combined population of 370 mil. Aussie and NZ with 24, no chance.

Well, that's not about population, but common sense. Turkey clubs who run the comp, don't vote for Christmas.

Or they could have the two seperate tournos, have a playoff game between the winners of each comp, for the right to have a promotion match.

Proibably wouldnt happen but could work wihtout bankrupting small semi-pro clubs.

that's kinda how its down in England is it not? the lower leagues have an auto promotion for the winner and then there is a playoff for the second promo spot?

That's pretty much how I see it. The winner of each state league ( 9 Aussie state leagues + 1 NZ national league) go in to a tournament, with one auto promotion spot and one playoff up for grabs.

All very hypothetical and difficult across two confederations. 

However I think a closed two tier system is probably what we'll get, there'll still be people unhappy with that, but I don't think it'll be a bad thing.

Geuninely unsure about the existence of leagues with relegation that also operate a salary cap. Just wondering how that works, when the league being relegated from can't afford to buy in transfers?

Surely one of the bigger assets any club has, is the book value of players; who you might need to offload for wage reasons at relegation. But if there is no market for these players, because a cap discourages transfers, then how do clubs cope both with the strip of their player assets effectively having to be terminated, with no transfer value realised, and then lower revenues from the lower division? Sounds .. bad for clubs survivability?

Scrap the cap?

Some clubs haven't adhered to it anyway. 

Sure, that's a logical conclusion, but doesn't necessarily lead to a better product, but wage inflation for Aussie players, and a competition where Sydney or Victory are the only winners.

It'd be interesting to see what The league would  define success as 

Financial viable?

Grows young Aussies for national team

?

It's never going to be a top global league. Hard to see how pro/Rel and removing the cap promotes viability. Removing the cap doesn't help grow better Aussie players instinctively either?

One of the current gripes in Australian Football with the A League, is lack of opportunities for young players. Recently some of the TV commentators in Oz have been admiring the playing chances that the Nix are giving Cacace & Singh.

Is a general feeling that in the old NSL days (more teams & I imagine less foreigners), more youngsters were given opportunities. A lot of those young kids then went overseas, and became the backbone of the 'golden generation' that qualified for 2006 WC.

The two new A League teams will mean more opportunities for promising young Aus players, but an A2 division (esp with A1 players sent down there on loan deals), would obviously accelerate that even further.

The whole financial viability issue is huge. There will be teething problems for sure, but a 2nd division is on it's way

I guess if cap stays in place (which is fine, i'm not against a cap) then the pro/rel spots would need to be automatic and no playoffs as a Tier 1 club with a bigger wage bill should always beat a Tier 2 team. Also gives the off season to acquire better players if going up or jettison players if going down.

Success is always going to be measured in trophies. But each clubs goals (semantics I know) might differ, and we already see that with some clubs to an extent.

And you're right, pro/rel and scrapping the cap won't promote viability, it comes back to TV/Sponsorship money and the clubs getting a bigger chunk of it. 

I just hope that Sky coughs up more dosh considering how well the team is doing and that they will have a major influence to our future existence.

You'd expect they would if the new a-league ownership demanded it.

Sky is facing a decline in subscribers. I am not sure that increasing cost of content is something they view with favour right now?

I mean, I assume that A-League viewship is below EPL, and they were not interested in that content at any price?

Yeah well, whilst they are losing customers, they are losing thugby customers too and League. So perhaps they might review what they are paying them at the same time as what they are paying football. Sky are learning the hard way what happens when you put all your eggs into two baskets.

will also depend on what the new a-league organisation decides to charge for the rights as well? Sky will not want to lose the last of its football base so I'd hope they'd be prepared to stump up a little more than the pittance they are rumoured to be paying now.

It would be good if another party stepped up and put in a bid for the HAL rights (looking at you TVNZ). 

As long as TVNZ don't get the rights, they'll absolutely butcher it.

:D They do ok with MLS and Bundesliga on Duke, but then that's not them producing the product :)

Jesus weeps in anticipation. Don't tell me, Jason Gunn & Simon Barnett doing the commentaries - They do pretty much every other show, so why not this one too! In fact, is there a show that neither one of them have done??

12th Man and Eddie McGuire jump to mind here.

Billy Birmingham is brilliant!

Football Today pull a Rabbit from their Hat

"It was a clear and simple reminder that football in Wellington is alive and well and the city wasn’t let down, as the Phoenix produced a stunning, Roy Krishna inspired second half comeback that saw them overcome a two goal half time deficit."

Kardinia May Not be Available for WMG

New A-League addition Western Melbourne Group are no closer to a deal on where to play their home games from October.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/sport/soccer/phoe...

Morrison also believes there is room for another team from New Zealand, whenever the A-League expands beyond 12 teams.

"The largest population base in Australasia without a licence is Auckland," he said. "It's been tried before, failed - but failure in the past is not necessarily indicative of what can be achieved in the future.

"I certainly think that's well worthwhile, looking at Auckland as a possible base for an A-League franchise."

Clearly Morrison is channeling YF as this is exactly what we have stated in these very words.

He is however far more upbeat than we are about the prospects of an Auckland team.

Taken from Mark Rudan thread as getting off topic.

Two different scenarios though. The Nix grew out of an unique opportunity (Knights going under), where someone had to act very fast. Thanks Terry S. 

The Auckland football community though have had 12 years, since the Knights were dissolved, to at least think about reconstructing an Auckland A League team.

I know all the A League clubs (Victory aside?) lose money, but I'm also a bit puzzled by this belief that a rich football loving owner(s), who is willing to burn millions is a must before you can even look at a bid. 

Surely it's possible to form a bid research group or something (driven by some people in the Auckland football community), then go see what potential sponsors etc are out there. Different code and everything but the Canterbury ITM Cup rugby side, have a different sponsor for each player, emblazoned across their jerseys. I presume they also have a larger main sponsor. No idea if such a sponsorship model is allowed in the A League, but interesting concept.

With the last expansion bid process, which Western Melbourne & Macarthur were successful in - was it not possible for another NZ team to also make a bid? 

Even if that is the case still, I'm sure FFA/NLWG would be prepared to listen if any Auckland group approached them and said, we are interested in forming an A League side in the biggest Australasian market without an A League presence. 

Especially now after having 23,000 plus at Eden Park, easily the biggest crowd of the round.

Just saying that the idea of an Auckland A League bid, is now worth exploring - and not just writing off completely as in the too hard basket.

One way an Auckland A-League bid just might succeed could be to follow the Western United model - [ 'The Resimax Group, one of Australia's largest privately owned property development companies, are thought to be funding approximately three quarters of the (Western United) project'] by convincing a property developer to link an A-League bid with a promised solution to Auckland's stadium problem. I believe there are just such proposals out there i.e. bowling Eden Park, selling the land for housing and building a football- dedicated rectangular downtown stadium. Trouble is the guys behind it are probably exclusively egg-ballers.

Well a model like that, helps you fund construction of a brand new shiny rectangle stadium, but it doesn't really help finance the ongoing annual costs of running an A League club. That's when you need lots of sponsorship dollars and/or a rich benefactor.

Of course the owners of a brand new stadium (or any stadia) want as many tenants as possible, so the developers of any new Auckland waterfront project, would love to have an extra tenant in the form of a potential Auckland A League team. It will be an fascinating couple of years in 09, as Eden Park continues to bleed money, and folks like Goff push idea of a new stadium downtown.

Also will the NLWG pull off a better financial model for the existing A League clubs, ie a bigger slice of the Foxtel cash. If so that could make setting up an Auckland A League team more attractive.

Judean People's Front at war, with the People's Front of Judea.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/centra...

Eh, I would be in favour of the dismantling of the main Eden Park ground (preserving the old grandstand and the No 2 ground) because that part of the city needs apartments more than a stadium.

Exactly to me it's a no brainer. You have part of the Mt Eden community that hates Eden Park and the disturbances it brings to their lives.

In that article I read a charity Phil Collins concert was blocked by, local residents. Those problems ain't going to go away. Meanwhile
the maintenance/depreciation costs continue to blow out. It's not just a sporting issue. 

Then you have Auckland with a housing shortfall, bursting at the seams, and a recognised need for "infill" housing projects.

A development group sounds like it offers to build a shiny new stadium down near the Waterfront, located close to public transport etc - where hopefully there will no limitations on how many night events can be held. Developer offers to build stadium in exchange for being gifted the Eden Park precinct to construct needed housing stock. Old style bartering.

Eden Park Trust/Auckland Council then owns a shiny new stadium debt free (I think that is the idea), and can host as many events as possible to pay for annual stadium costs. It loses one asset off it's balance sheet (EP) but gains another with shiny new stadium.

Yeah sure EP is a bit iconic and has lots of history, but when it was first built 100 odd years ago, Auckland was a very very different place. Since then another million odd people have arrived, but it's limited land mass is the same.

Bowl it over, preferably leaving EP no 2 as a small 15,000 seater, for rugby/league/football games that will draw a small crowd. Flog off the seats as sporting memorabilia, for people's 'pool rooms'. A mate of mine is selling 500 framed seat numbers (limited edition of course) of the old Lancaster Park/Jade, complete with a description of the 20 biggest sporting events held at LP. Includes a 1912 Davis Cup final Australasia verus USA!  

Who knows opening a shiny new waterfront stadium, at the same time as launching a new Auckland A League team, may see average crowds of 20,000 in the first year. I remember Westpac being like that for first few years with the Hurricanes. Then the honeymoon fades. 

AKA "NIMBY's". They want everything just, not in their backyard. For most, Eden Park was there long before they were. They just need a cup of harden the fudge up. So too the Western Springs Nimby's and the Thorndon Terrace Nimby's and the Petone Nimby's.

Auckland v Wellington in the A League - I can live with that.

Eden Park No 2 just has one historical grandstand. It no more relies on "paid crowds" than the Auckland Domain.

Aw, nah. They can have a lot of events there. It's used for the rugby and cricket it was designed for.

It's just rugby and cricket local games don't sell tickets. Suspect with the timing there's some astro-turfing with this group. They're showing up late in the piece. 

Well no. The above Stuff article quotes a charity Phil Collins concert being canned, because of objections from local residents. That's just one example. I'm sure other planned events incl concerts, have also had to be canned or taken elsewhere.

NZ Cricket have definitely taken games away from Auckland.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/cricket/cric...

"We all would've wanted to play more cricket, more of the India tour at Eden Park, but unfortunately we can't," he said.

"We've got some restrictions around how late they can go."

The ground is essentially unusable because India's bosses and broadcasters want matches to start later in the day, which sees it clash with resource consent Crummy said.

When Eden Park was opened in 1900, Greater Auckland's population was only around 100,000. Incidentally, Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin all had quite similar populations at the end of the 19th century! Consider that for a moment.

The needs of Auckland have vastly changed in the last 119 years. It's a city with restrictive geography and an ongoing housing shortage. Bowl over EP, build housing there, and open a new stadium away from residential areas, that's easily accessible by public transport. If it can be done for 'free' as part of some land swap deal, all the better. 

Keeping EP no 2 as a boutique ground, on a small footprint was an idea I had, but may just not be feasible. And if you could still create a good atmosphere at any new stadium, for those games with smaller crowds (15,000 & less) - through clever acoustics, closing top tiers etc - then you just need the new stadium. As long as it's a rectangle!

So called restrictions at Eden Park wouldn't affect it as a football stadium as the times and noise levels would comfortably comply.

The problem with the cricket was they wanted to start later to suit India television audiences, which meant running through to 11:30 ish, which is certainly no fun for residents on a week night, and even weekends for some given it takes a while for the crowd to file out and disperse, and normally noisy after the cricket because you have several thousand people having sat around drinking for six hours.

The concerts were similar problems with wanting to start after it goes dark - outdoor concerts always have more atmosphere after sunset - so they would run too late and be too noisy. 

Auckland Penguins v Wellington Phoenix, or any other side for that matter, if not afternoon game would kick off 7:35 latest and be done by 9:30