Already 8 clubs expressing interest in playing in the second division: APIA Preston Lions Gold Coast Knights Sydney Olympic Peninsula Power Olympic FC Sunshine Coast Fire Rocksale Ilinden FC So much for the earlier theories that clubs wouldnt want to front up the $700k. Only need 5 more from a vast pool to be bigger than the actual A-league.
If those 8 teams alone went full pro and joined the A League giving it 20 clubs, 38 games a season instead of this 3 games against a side BS.
With a massive drop off in quality as you add those 8 extra teams.
A 14 team ALM (adding Canberra & Auckland), giving you 26 game regular season H&A games plus finals, I'd go for. With a 12-14 team 2nd Division.
Then when your 2nd Division proves it's financially stable, and you can bring in parachute payments etc so that if for example the Nix got relegated they don't go bust - and you bring in pro/rel.
Maybe even expand the ALM regular season to a top 7 & bottom 7, after 26 rounds, giving you 32 games regular season. Like a lot of Euro leagues do.
But think the whole pro/rel thing would be years off.
Two teams with the * about waiting for their cheques to clear.
Hopefully when all is said and done they have 16-18 teams left standing for the start of it.
If it all happens wonder if there will be a bit of an exodus of the better domestic NZ players across the Tasman? I'm guessing these new 2nd Division clubs will be restricted to 3-5 non Australians per team.
Coinciding with a OFC professional league kicking off that might have 2-3 NZ teams, a wave of pro/semi-pro opportunities for the best talent still in NZ. But a drop in the quality of NZ's various domestic winter leagues maybe, as anywhere from 10-60 players exit about the same time.
"The RFP phase will involve the distribution of comprehensive Bid Documents to the shortlisted clubs, including an information memorandum, NST related data, financial forecasts, key terms of a Club Participation Agreement, and draft transaction documents.
This phase will be conducted confidentially, running from May to July 2023. It will be followed by an assessment and recommendation phase (July to August 2023) and is anticipated to be completed by September to October 2023."
The proposed start date for this competition would be March 2024.
Football Australia is pleased to formally announce that 26 clubs have successfully proceeded to the Request for Proposal (RFP) phase of the National Second Tier (NST) competition. https://t.co/xq7mTKD5at
The 6 clubs to miss out from the original 32 applicants were Valentine FC (Northern NSW), Peninsula Power (QLD), Playford City (SA), Bentleigh Greens (VIC), Cockburn City (WA), and Blacktown City (NSW).
Plan seems workable with some merit. And if the ALM clubs as reported seem happy with the concept, it probably is a good compromise solution. Surely giving say a financially stable South Melbourne 5 years to prove themselves in the NSD before being promoted up to the ALM, is better than taking a franchise fee from souless Western United.
Would add a bit of late season drama too, as teams try to avoid dropping from the A1 to A2. But without the financial hurt of dropping out of the ALM altogether. You'd need to still have a salary cap, so best players in A2 league don't just try flock to A1 league. But sounds like they will take their time (years) to work up to a pro/rel format, and the issues that will arise.
Club executives were recently briefed on the blueprint, conceived by the Australian Professional Leagues, which closely mirrors the way Japan’s J.League grew from one professional division to three over of 21 years.
According to multiple sources who are familiar with the discussion, the APL told the clubs they were prepared to admit the strongest teams from the second division into the men’s A-League on an ongoing basis - provided those clubs were able to satisfy a set of strict criteria to prove their financial stability and other off-field bona fides, and demonstrate a capacity for sustained high performance.
There would be no limit to the number of clubs that could be promoted, but once it reaches a certain number of teams, most likely around 20, the A-League would then split into two leagues - tentatively called A1-League and A2-League.
From there, teams would be able to go up into A1 or down to A2, but they would be protected from relegation below A2, while second division teams which meet the criteria would continue to be promoted into A2 - albeit in a staggered fashion, since the A-League is played over summer and the second division is to be played through the winter, making a direct promotion-relegation system in line with European tradition unachievable.
The APL is determined to first expand the A-League from 12 to 16 teams - first through the introduction of Canberra and Auckland teams in the 2024-25 season as previously announced, and then through another round of expansion into new markets such as south-east Queensland, Wollongong and Tasmania - before any NPL clubs are promoted or admitted.
Football Australia has reached a significant milestone in the National Second Tier (NST) Application Process, distributing the Request for Proposal (RFP) Materials to the 26 shortlisted applicants today.https://t.co/EGPLh8g0nh
As stated in my previous post up there somewhere - Likely NST to kickoff March 2024, consisting of 10-16 teams.
Exciting news all round. We should know the composition of this set up by September/October.
Expecting to see a few Kiwi lads knocking about the Regional/National leagues to head over to Aussie and sign with the successful applicant clubs when this all gets confirmed.
Would it be an option for the Phoenix to sidle up to one of these NST clubs to arrange loans and playing time for the youngsters and fringe players on our books?
I mean I can hear the screams from Australia before the question has even been asked, but I don't think it is an entirely preposterous idea. Cheeky, yes, but from a purely NZ orientated standpoint, getting minutes for players in what already looks & sounds like a far more visible league (glares at NZF) would be beneficial for us down the line.
Pretty sure we're going to see a bunch of the top National League guys opt to look over there once it's all confirmed. No harm in asking I guess. 🤷♂️
Would it be an option for the Phoenix to sidle up to one of these NST clubs to arrange loans and playing time for the youngsters and fringe players on our books?
I mean I can hear the screams from Australia before the question has even been asked, but I don't think it is an entirely preposterous idea. Cheeky, yes, but from a purely NZ orientated standpoint, getting minutes for players in what already looks & sounds like a far more visible league (glares at NZF) would be beneficial for us down the line.
Pretty sure we're going to see a bunch of the top National League guys opt to look over there once it's all confirmed. No harm in asking I guess. 🤷♂️
Not the silliest idea. But alot of the push for a NSD/T in Australia, is that not enough young players are getting a chance in the ALM. That old agrument that the NSL with it's higher number of teams than the ALM, gave more opportunities to young kids, leading to the Socceroos having it's 'Golden Generation' in the mid 2000s.
For sure there will be a cap on visa player numbers in the NSD, and Kiwis will understandably be treated as visas.
The NSD will not commence in 2024. A number of clubs are not happy with Football Australia’s current proposal. Several high profile clubs will not be submitting proposals one of them being Melbourne Knights FC. pic.twitter.com/Jc26qz4pQl
For those unfamiliar with the name. Mark Ivkovic was the Football Operations Manager for the Melbourne Knights up until a year or so ago, so I'd imagine still very up with the play.
If it's true the bidding clubs have to pay a $500K non refundable fee, just to have their bid proposal assessed as someone tweeted that's wrong of the FA.
However I thought the planned slow introduction of pro/rel, was a pretty well thought through plan. From memory no promotion for a number of years into the ALM, then maybe like 6 teams promoted over time - to get 20 ALM teams, then split into A1 & A2. Something like that, seemed not the worst idea.
Any potential NST team has got to the realise the ALM itself is pretty fragile (look at the Glory & Jets) - and the existing 12 clubs (plus it seems soon Auckland & Canberra) need to be protected foremost. They need to be patient with any pro/rel ambitions.
Not sure if it's the former or the latter issue that Melb Knights ain't happy about.
Football Australia is pleased to announce the conclusion of phase two, the Request for Proposal (RFP) phase of the National Second Tier (NST) Application Process.
2nd phase of the process complete. No word yet on how many clubs submitted a proposal to go through to the final phase of selection, but I'm sure that will come out in the wash.
Notable clubs that have stated they have applied so far - South Melbourne FC & Sydney United...
If I can ask a stupid question - is a fully integrated football pyramid with pro/rel in aussie geographically possible? In England, once the tiers split into different regions (National League North + South and so on) they can just move teams to create even divisions and this obviously works as England is so consistently populated. How could you possibly have pro/rel between the 8 or so NPLs and a NST? Would you not inevitably end up for example making an Adelaide team play in the WA NPL if you moved teams like in England?
I'm just wondering if I'm missing something as full pro/rel across the pyramid often seems to be touted as the end goal.
Seems they don't plan to ever have direct pro/rel from any 2nd tier to/from the NPL leagues. More an application pathway that would take into account a number of factors, just like the current EOI process.
Club executives were recently briefed on the blueprint, conceived by the Australian Professional Leagues, which closely mirrors the way Japan’s J.League grew from one professional division to three over of 21 years.
According to multiple sources who are familiar with the discussion, the APL told the clubs they were prepared to admit the strongest teams from the second division into the men’s A-League on an ongoing basis - provided those clubs were able to satisfy a set of strict criteria to prove their financial stability and other off-field bona fides, and demonstrate a capacity for sustained high performance.
There would be no limit to the number of clubs that could be promoted, but once it reaches a certain number of teams, most likely around 20, the A-League would then split into two leagues - tentatively called A1-League and A2-League.
From there, teams would be able to go up into A1 or down to A2, but they would be protected from relegation below A2, while second division teams which meet the criteria would continue to be promoted into A2 - albeit in a staggered fashion, since the A-League is played over summer and the second division is to be played through the winter, making a direct promotion-relegation system in line with European tradition unachievable.
The APL is determined to first expand the A-League from 12 to 16 teams - first through the introduction of Canberra and Auckland teams in the 2024-25 season as previously announced, and then through another round of expansion into new markets such as south-east Queensland, Wollongong and Tasmania - before any NPL clubs are promoted or admitted.
If I can ask a stupid question - is a fully integrated football pyramid with pro/rel in aussie geographically possible? In England, once the tiers split into different regions (National League North + South and so on) they can just move teams to create even divisions and this obviously works as England is so consistently populated. How could you possibly have pro/rel between the 8 or so NPLs and a NST? Would you not inevitably end up for example making an Adelaide team play in the WA NPL if you moved teams like in England?
I'm just wondering if I'm missing something as full pro/rel across the pyramid often seems to be touted as the end goal.
You gave a valid point, and thinly populated or widely populated places are harder than the close neighbourhoods of UK / Europe. Aus is not too far removed from (parts of) NZ though. Take National League; under its current form takes teams from Northern Central and Southern league. Central league has relegation. If you are in the Wellington area, you drop to Cap Prem, Cap 1 and down the leagues. If you are in Napier, you drop to Central federation league, then federation league east, the Hawkes Bay league. New Plymouth teams drop to Federation league, then Fed west then Taranaki Prems. Promotion to Central league is via playoff between Central Fed and Cap Prem winners.
Exciting stuff nonetheless, 2024 seemed unrealistic anyway. I wonder what the time frame is now for pro/rel with the A league? 2030?
Have a read above. Pro/rel between NST and ALM isn’t really the plan.
More gradually expanding the ALM to 20-24 teams from NST clubs deemed able to go up. Then splitting the ALM into A1 and A2 of 10-12 teams each, with pro/rel between A1 & A2.
No real deadlines it seems, more as long as if takes for teams to be ready to join the ALM
Based on how Japan over time grew its club pyramid J1, J2 & J3. On face value seems s sound strategy
On face value I like the idea. Pro/rel between A1 and A2 gives all teams except the bottom couple in A2 something to play for right up to season end. But with 2 tiers the ‘A League’ status of foundation clubs is protected.
24 teams likely very ambitious, but could get to 20 teams. The Gong, Tassie, Sth Melb, 2nd teams (derbies) in QLD and WA. A Christchurch club.
Given ALM clubs seem to be scaling back player budgets, in the hope of greater financial sustainability, clubs could hopefully survive off crowds as low as 5-6k. You just wouldn’t want playing standards to drop much. But we keep hearing of players in the NPL or NZ NL deserving of a chance at pro football. Treat OFC Island players aka Krishna, Kaltack as non Visas
I see, so teams are admitted rather than promoted to the A League from the NST.
Lots of things still to work out I'm sure, but creating a 20-24 team league and cleaving it in half all of a sudden seems a bit funny?
It won't be that big to start with. Honestly I'll be amazed if there are any more than 10-12 teams for the first season. The big problem is that some of the Australian state federations are kicking up a fuss and saying that they'll expel any clubs from the state leagues whose first teams go up into the NST.
I see, so teams are admitted rather than promoted to the A League from the NST.
Lots of things still to work out I'm sure, but creating a 20-24 team league and cleaving it in half all of a sudden seems a bit funny?
It won't be that big to start with. Honestly I'll be amazed if there are any more than 10-12 teams for the first season. The big problem is that some of the Australian state federations are kicking up a fuss and saying that they'll expel any clubs from the state leagues whose first teams go up into the NST.
Not a NST of 20-24 teams but eventually the ALM split in two (A1 & A2) so 20-24 teams possibly, with pro/rel between A1 & A2
I see, so teams are admitted rather than promoted to the A League from the NST.
Lots of things still to work out I'm sure, but creating a 20-24 team league and cleaving it in half all of a sudden seems a bit funny?
It won't be that big to start with. Honestly I'll be amazed if there are any more than 10-12 teams for the first season. The big problem is that some of the Australian state federations are kicking up a fuss and saying that they'll expel any clubs from the state leagues whose first teams go up into the NST.
Not a NST of 20-24 teams but eventually the ALM split in two (A1 & A2) so 20-24 teams possibly, with pro/rel between A1 & A2
I dont really understand the need to split the league when you reach 20-24 teams? How do you make that call that suddenly 12 teams that have been in the top flight end up in a second division?
