Marquee
2.7K
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7.2K
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about 17 years

Definitely keep it and improve it.

Having to start from scratch would be a huge mistake.

Sure, HAL doesn't have the power base or tifo of the old NASL but it's got a good business model and is slowly, but surely, improving as a league year on year.

We just need to buckle down and make good decisions that make sense on a financial level AND continue to increase the fan base of the league.

I always look at the MLS (sure, the US is a huge country with a massive economy, but there's also so much competition when it comes to sports). Back in the 90s they were the laughing stock of the world - yet fast forward 25 years and they now have a great league.

There's no reason why we can't have a [scaled down] version of that in AUS/NZ.

Bevan
·
First Team Squad
210
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1.7K
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over 16 years

The fourth official is great.

What a unique job.

A guy who stands next to the team benches and has to take abuse from coaches for the whole game.

He doesn't do even have to do anything about their whinging ...

LG
Legend
5.7K
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23K
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almost 17 years

He can get them booked by calling the referee over though.

Opinion Privileges revoked
4.6K
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9.8K
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over 14 years

Man, reading the Inside Sport forum (as I do every time we pull off a win) and I just gape at how much some of those guys really, really hate us and want us dumped.

RR
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Bossi Insider
9.8K
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34K
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almost 16 years

Angus Thurgate named November Nominee for the Young Footballer of the Year

https://www.a-league.com.au/news/angus-thurgate-named-november-nominee-young-footballer-year

I would have gone for McGree myself

Marquee
1.2K
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5.5K
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over 13 years

This article in the Guardian by up and coming Sydney based football writer Samantha Lewis, makes the connection between yesterday's smoke haze and a potential look into some of the issues facing the future of Australia's summer sports: The future is smoky

When the Melbourne Boxing Day test and the Sydney New Year cricket test are cancelled by bushfire or heat related issues, maybe Australia's summer sporting public will wake up to the COALition of SmokoScomo and their mining industry cabal. Maybe.

And as a side note for those playing at home, if you want to know exactly which former mining industry lobbyists are now on the staff of MorrisontheMiner's government, read this: We don't have a government; we have a plaything of the coal industry

.."For starters, Morrison’s staff is a regular who’s who of coal industry luminaries. His Chief of Staff, John Kunkel, used to be mining giant Rio Tinto’s Chief Advisor for Government Relations and before that he was Deputy CEO of the Minerals Council of Australia for over six years. His Principal Private Secretary, Yaron Finkelstein, is the former CEO of Crosby Textor (now C|T), a multinational lobbying firm with close ties to the mining industry. C|T’s corporate clients include coal giants Glencore and Mitsubishi Development, along with the Australian Petroleum Production and Exploration Association and the Queensland Resources Council. They ran a 2017 campaign to undermine confidence in renewable energy on behalf of Glencore which included fabricating news stories and spying on environmental groups. Andrew Hirst, former Crosby Textor Director, is now Liberal Party Campaign Director."


But back to football issues. Smoke haze and heat are going to increasingly impact summer football in Australia. Greg O'Rourke (and James Johnson) are going to have to incorporate this into future strategic plans for the first and 2nd division competition structure, eg. matches in filtered, air conditioned indoor stadia or change of season.

RR
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Bossi Insider
9.8K
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34K
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almost 16 years

RR wrote:

Angus Thurgate named November Nominee for the Young Footballer of the Year

https://www.a-league.com.au/news/angus-thurgate-named-november-nominee-young-footballer-year

I would have gone for McGree myself

Seems he won the October award, I hadn't noticed that. They haven't done one for October in the past.
RR
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Bossi Insider
9.8K
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34K
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almost 16 years

Experts sound alarm as A-League faces ‘existential’ threat from rising temperatures and more games


It’s the “existential” crisis that Australian football has to face, on a collision course with weather that tests athletes to their limits.

With summer temperatures rising around Australia since the A-League began in 2005, games are being played in increasingly difficult conditions – and next season the challenges will get significantly worse.

This weekend W-League and A-League fixtures have had to be rescheduled due to extreme heat forecasts, and A-League officials are counting their blessings that both the Melbourne derby and Friday night’s clash between Western Sydney and Western United fell on days sandwiched by brutal temperatures in both cities.

From player welfare to product quality, the challenges posed by hotter summers are already influencing the planning of the draw for next season’s A-League, W-League and National Youth League (NYL).

The advent of Macarthur FC to the A-League means a sixth game to include, where for much of the season there are currently only five “natural” weekend slots: at 7.30pm on Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and an early evening game on the latter two days.

When Perth play at home on Saturday night, the time difference with the Eastern Seaboard allows for a sixth game, but there are only seven of those in this year’s schedule.

Playing fixtures concurrently is anathema to broadcasters, but kicking off in the mid-afternoon is when summer temperatures are at their highest.

The challenges for the W-League and NYL are even more stark, and players in the former have long complained of being forced to play in the heat of the day to avoid clashes with A-League games.

Australian football is hardly the only sport to face these challenges – the Australian Open and the Tour Down Under are also grappling with temperature rises.

“Nine of the 10 hottest years on record have come since the A-League began in 2005, and over the past decade we’ve had a record number of ‘wild weather’ days,” Dr Rice said.

“Sports administrators are going to have to factor this in when they schedule their fixture lists and it’s not going to get any better.

“All of the major sites where the A-League plays are forecast to see temperature rises of between 0.6-0.9C (in summer) by 2030.

“In specific terms, Adelaide for example now has 20 days a year where the temperature is over 35C.”

Current arrangements allow for games to be moved when forecasts exceed the so-called “Wet Bulb Globe Temperature” reading, which factors in temperature but also humidity, cloud cover, solar radiation, wind, shade, and the time of day.

The level at which games come in question is actually lower in the A-League than FIFA mandates, but even where fixtures can go ahead, the heat has implications, says John Didulica, CEO of the players association.

“You have the problem of aggregate fatigue – when you play and train in consistently hot weather it can expose you to greater risk of soft-tissue injuries for instance,” he said.

It also affects the quality of the league if games slow to a walking pace. But the reality is that all long-term solutions are systemic – most radically, moving football to a winter sport, and having to go head to head with the other main codes.

Other options are commercially difficult such as having midweek games in school holidays, playing regularly on Thursday or Monday nights, or accepting that not every game each round can be played in a different timeslot. With the advent of streaming and multi-channel broadcast options, that seems the most palatable.

But doing nothing simply isn’t feasible. “It’s an existential question that needs to be addressed by all of us,” said Didulica.

“It’s an even more pressing concern for the W-League and NYL, whose athletes are potentially more exposed to extreme heat.

“The starting point should be, what will build the best spectacle? Player welfare is integral to that, as you need athletes to play in conditions where they can be at their best.”

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/football/a-league/experts-sound-alarm-as-aleague-faces-existential-threat-from-rising-temperatures-and-more-games/news-story/a1df4d326c3c5b7b2218a6c466c6f56a
RR
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Bossi Insider
9.8K
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34K
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almost 16 years

I only got 68/151. Really disappointed in that, my mind just went blank. Only got 10/15 Nix scorers :(

Appiah without the pace
6.5K
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19K
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almost 17 years

RR wrote:

[quote]

Experts sound alarm as A-League faces ‘existential’ threat from rising temperatures and more games


It’s the “existential” crisis that Australian football has to face, on a collision course with weather that tests athletes to their limits.

With summer temperatures rising around Australia since the A-League began in 2005, games are being played in increasingly difficult conditions – and next season the challenges will get significantly worse.

This weekend W-League and A-League fixtures have had to be rescheduled due to extreme heat forecasts, and A-League officials are counting their blessings that both the Melbourne derby and Friday night’s clash between Western Sydney and Western United fell on days sandwiched by brutal temperatures in both cities.

From player welfare to product quality, the challenges posed by hotter summers are already influencing the planning of the draw for next season’s A-League, W-League and National Youth League (NYL).

The advent of Macarthur FC to the A-League means a sixth game to include, where for much of the season there are currently only five “natural” weekend slots: at 7.30pm on Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and an early evening game on the latter two days.

When Perth play at home on Saturday night, the time difference with the Eastern Seaboard allows for a sixth game, but there are only seven of those in this year’s schedule.
/quote]https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/football/a-league/experts-sound-alarm-as-aleague-faces-existential-threat-from-rising-temperatures-and-more-games/news-story/a1df4d326c3c5b7b2218a6c466c6f56a

Isn't part of the solution giving us 5pm kick offs again

Marquee
1.2K
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5.5K
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over 13 years

2ndBest wrote:

RR wrote:

[quote]

Experts sound alarm as A-League faces ‘existential’ threat from rising temperatures and more games


It’s the “existential” crisis that Australian football has to face, on a collision course with weather that tests athletes to their limits.

With summer temperatures rising around Australia since the A-League began in 2005, games are being played in increasingly difficult conditions – and next season the challenges will get significantly worse.

This weekend W-League and A-League fixtures have had to be rescheduled due to extreme heat forecasts, and A-League officials are counting their blessings that both the Melbourne derby and Friday night’s clash between Western Sydney and Western United fell on days sandwiched by brutal temperatures in both cities.

From player welfare to product quality, the challenges posed by hotter summers are already influencing the planning of the draw for next season’s A-League, W-League and National Youth League (NYL).

The advent of Macarthur FC to the A-League means a sixth game to include, where for much of the season there are currently only five “natural” weekend slots: at 7.30pm on Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and an early evening game on the latter two days.

When Perth play at home on Saturday night, the time difference with the Eastern Seaboard allows for a sixth game, but there are only seven of those in this year’s schedule.
/quote]https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/football/a-league/experts-sound-alarm-as-aleague-faces-existential-threat-from-rising-temperatures-and-more-games/news-story/a1df4d326c3c5b7b2218a6c466c6f56a

Isn't part of the solution giving us 5pm kick offs again

Or moving heatwave clubs to NZ? ;)

Seriously though, winter season will have to come back onto the agenda when planning for 2nd division. 

Marquee
1.2K
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5.5K
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over 13 years

...CCM just moved their Y league game tomorrow to an 8:45am kick off, with temperature of 36 expected at 11am. Scorcher in NSW on Saturday. 

RR
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Bossi Insider
9.8K
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34K
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almost 16 years
RR
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Bossi Insider
9.8K
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34K
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almost 16 years
Cock
2.7K
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16K
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almost 15 years

involving lots of brown paper bags

RR
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Bossi Insider
9.8K
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34K
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almost 16 years
Marquee
1.2K
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5.5K
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over 13 years

RR wrote:

Apparently Hyundai gave only 4 months notice! For a commercial partnership of this standing that is astoundingly bad relationship management. FFA desperately trying to secure one year extension to buy some time to secure new naming rights sponsor. 

I don’t know the details but think this must be part of new independent league’s responsibility now; just another factor in play to complicate things. 

And this comes on top of FFA losing Caltex Socceroos, Aldi supermarkets MiniRoos, and National Australia Bank financial services  sponsorships. 

Marquee
3.7K
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5.8K
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about 17 years

Thats about the norm things start looking up for our involvement and something goes tits up elsewhere that could affect it.

valeo
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Legend
4.6K
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18K
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about 17 years

Global Game wrote:

RR wrote:

Apparently Hyundai gave only 4 months notice! For a commercial partnership of this standing that is astoundingly bad relationship management. FFA desperately trying to secure one year extension to buy some time to secure new naming rights sponsor. 

I don’t know the details but think this must be part of new independent league’s responsibility now; just another factor in play to complicate things. 

And this comes on top of FFA losing Caltex Socceroos, Aldi supermarkets MiniRoos, and National Australia Bank financial services  sponsorships. 

Pretty sure it's still the FFA's responsibility.

RR
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Bossi Insider
9.8K
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34K
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almost 16 years
RR
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Bossi Insider
9.8K
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34K
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almost 16 years
Marquee
1.2K
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5.5K
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over 13 years

Clubs that have stood down players/staff: Perth, CCM, Roar, Adelaide, Jets, WSW.  Predicting WU and Nix next cabs off the rank. Leaving only the big 3.


I reckon there’s a better than even chance the next football season is sure to include some old NSL clubs. 

Getting paid to be here
700
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970
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over 6 years

Global Game wrote:

Clubs that have stood down players/staff: Perth, CCM, Roar, Adelaide, Jets, WSW.  Predicting WU and Nix next cabs off the rank. Leaving only the big 3.


I reckon there’s a better than even chance the next football season is sure to include some old NSL clubs. 

There is no mechanism by which the Phoenix can "stand down" players/staff.

RR
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Bossi Insider
9.8K
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34K
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almost 16 years

Global Game wrote:

Clubs that have stood down players/staff: Perth, CCM, Roar, Adelaide, Jets, WSW.  Predicting WU and Nix next cabs off the rank. Leaving only the big 3.

I reckon there’s a better than even chance the next football season is sure to include some old NSL clubs. 

There is no mechanism by which the Phoenix can "stand down" players/staff.

I'm waiting for the inevitable FIFA vs Aussie Employment law stoush that will happen if a player asks to be released from their contract for non payment of wages.
Marquee
2.7K
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7.2K
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about 17 years

Global Game wrote:

Clubs that have stood down players/staff: Perth, CCM, Roar, Adelaide, Jets, WSW.  Predicting WU and Nix next cabs off the rank. Leaving only the big 3.


I reckon there’s a better than even chance the next football season is sure to include some old NSL clubs. 

There is no mechanism by which the Phoenix can "stand down" players/staff.

Closest thing to it would be redundancy, correct? But that would mean releasing them all from their contracts, meaning they'd all be free agents - not great if we hope to keep many of them around for next season.

Woof Woof
2.7K
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19K
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almost 17 years

Global Game wrote:

Clubs that have stood down players/staff: Perth, CCM, Roar, Adelaide, Jets, WSW.  Predicting WU and Nix next cabs off the rank. Leaving only the big 3.


I reckon there’s a better than even chance the next football season is sure to include some old NSL clubs. 

There is no mechanism by which the Phoenix can "stand down" players/staff.

Closest thing to it would be redundancy, correct? But that would mean releasing them all from their contracts, meaning they'd all be free agents - not great if we hope to keep many of them around for next season.

Pretty sure that players aren't employees. Would be interesting to know what the terms of those contracts are, from memory they are all templated? Which means that the contracts that players in Aus are on would be the same as the contracts the Nix players on.

Legend
7.2K
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14K
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over 16 years

el grapadura wrote:

Global Game wrote:

Clubs that have stood down players/staff: Perth, CCM, Roar, Adelaide, Jets, WSW.  Predicting WU and Nix next cabs off the rank. Leaving only the big 3.


I reckon there’s a better than even chance the next football season is sure to include some old NSL clubs. 

There is no mechanism by which the Phoenix can "stand down" players/staff.

Closest thing to it would be redundancy, correct? But that would mean releasing them all from their contracts, meaning they'd all be free agents - not great if we hope to keep many of them around for next season.

Pretty sure that players aren't employees. Would be interesting to know what the terms of those contracts are, from memory they are all templated? Which means that the contracts that players in Aus are on would be the same as the contracts the Nix players on.

Really? That's a bit of sophistry.  If you compare to say a plumber, the players can only have one job/person they work for and they don't have much flexibility about where and when they do a job. 

Woof Woof
2.7K
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19K
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almost 17 years

martinb wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

Global Game wrote:

Clubs that have stood down players/staff: Perth, CCM, Roar, Adelaide, Jets, WSW.  Predicting WU and Nix next cabs off the rank. Leaving only the big 3.


I reckon there’s a better than even chance the next football season is sure to include some old NSL clubs. 

There is no mechanism by which the Phoenix can "stand down" players/staff.

Closest thing to it would be redundancy, correct? But that would mean releasing them all from their contracts, meaning they'd all be free agents - not great if we hope to keep many of them around for next season.

Pretty sure that players aren't employees. Would be interesting to know what the terms of those contracts are, from memory they are all templated? Which means that the contracts that players in Aus are on would be the same as the contracts the Nix players on.

Really? That's a bit of sophistry.  If you compare to say a plumber, the players can only have one job/person they work for and they don't have much flexibility about where and when they do a job. 

An owner/operator plumber isn't the right comparison here. Essentially players (and coaching staff) are contractors. The background/admin staff I suspect could well be/are employees. 

Legend
7.2K
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14K
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over 16 years

el grapadura wrote:

martinb wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

Global Game wrote:

Clubs that have stood down players/staff: Perth, CCM, Roar, Adelaide, Jets, WSW.  Predicting WU and Nix next cabs off the rank. Leaving only the big 3.


I reckon there’s a better than even chance the next football season is sure to include some old NSL clubs. 

There is no mechanism by which the Phoenix can "stand down" players/staff.

Closest thing to it would be redundancy, correct? But that would mean releasing them all from their contracts, meaning they'd all be free agents - not great if we hope to keep many of them around for next season.

Pretty sure that players aren't employees. Would be interesting to know what the terms of those contracts are, from memory they are all templated? Which means that the contracts that players in Aus are on would be the same as the contracts the Nix players on.

Really? That's a bit of sophistry.  If you compare to say a plumber, the players can only have one job/person they work for and they don't have much flexibility about where and when they do a job. 

An owner/operator plumber isn't the right comparison here. Essentially players (and coaching staff) are contractors. The background/admin staff I suspect could well be/are employees. 

Nah, but it is. They've only got one employer and got sod all choice over their hours of work. 

Edit: in any case the bailout and assistance packages seem to be fairly broad so it probably won't restrict the options for keeping the Nix afloat.

Marquee
7.1K
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9.4K
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over 13 years

el grapadura wrote:

martinb wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

Global Game wrote:

Clubs that have stood down players/staff: Perth, CCM, Roar, Adelaide, Jets, WSW.  Predicting WU and Nix next cabs off the rank. Leaving only the big 3.


I reckon there’s a better than even chance the next football season is sure to include some old NSL clubs. 

There is no mechanism by which the Phoenix can "stand down" players/staff.

Closest thing to it would be redundancy, correct? But that would mean releasing them all from their contracts, meaning they'd all be free agents - not great if we hope to keep many of them around for next season.

Pretty sure that players aren't employees. Would be interesting to know what the terms of those contracts are, from memory they are all templated? Which means that the contracts that players in Aus are on would be the same as the contracts the Nix players on.

Really? That's a bit of sophistry.  If you compare to say a plumber, the players can only have one job/person they work for and they don't have much flexibility about where and when they do a job. 

An owner/operator plumber isn't the right comparison here. Essentially players (and coaching staff) are contractors. The background/admin staff I suspect could well be/are employees. 

Either that or fixed term employment. My guess is they'll be contracts too, but unusual ones when you take into account transfers and the fact that they can't be terminated easily.

RR
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Bossi Insider
9.8K
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34K
·
almost 16 years

It is being reported that Western United have now stood down their players. That leaves City, Victory, Sydney and us left paying their players & staff now.

Marquee
1.2K
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5.5K
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over 13 years

Nick Galatas, former chair of South Melbourne, and now chair of the AAFC, which represents the NPL clubs is calling for a re-boot of the football pyramid, pro-rel now etc; as the gap between most A league clubs and the larger NPL clubs is now much smaller, if for example salary cap is halved next season. Interesting times. 

PS Andrew V, if the Nix are an Australian club located in NZ for FFA/AFC purposes, and the players are represented by the APFA, are you certain NZ employment law applies? 

Getting paid to be here
700
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970
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over 6 years

Global Game wrote:

Nick Galatas, former chair of South Melbourne, and now chair of the AAFC, which represents the NPL clubs is calling for a re-boot of the football pyramid, pro-rel now etc; as the gap between most A league clubs and the larger NPL clubs is now much smaller, if for example salary cap is halved next season. Interesting times. 

PS Andrew V, if the Nix are an Australian club located in NZ for FFA/AFC purposes, and the players are represented by the APFA, are you certain NZ employment law applies? 

Does "an Australian club located in NZ for FFA/AFC purposes" mean anything, if it is indeed a thing? They're a New Zealand club, owned by a New Zealand company. 

I'll readily admit I'm not an employment law expert (and that it would help if the club was willing to answer these kind of questions to provide some added clarity), but I'm fairly sure.

Of course, I don't know what's actually in the club's various contracts, but all the reporting out of Australia is of clubs making the most of their rights under Australian law, not enacting contract provisions.

Marquee
1.2K
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5.5K
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over 13 years

In current times the business model and depth of pockets of all organisations is being laid bare.

Plus, ownership sources of wealth will be taking a big hit in many cases. Real shame we’re in vitae virus interruptus (I’ve just coined that phrase), as Welnix could have been in a reasonable position to bring further investinto the club to spread the load. Now though, not so much. 

Phoenix Academy
100
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190
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almost 17 years

Might provide some certainty to plan next season as consisting of:

- finishing off this season, including playoffs, in Oct-Nov;

- followed immediately by next season reduced to a 22 game 2x round robin (assuming there are still 12 clubs including the new Sydney team able to take part) + play-offs, starting in December.

Highly unlikely, I know, but is the best outcome I can imagine happening.

Marquee
1.2K
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5.5K
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over 13 years

hazhapard wrote:

Might provide some certainty to plan next season as consisting of:

- finishing off this season, including playoffs, in Oct-Nov;

- followed immediately by next season reduced to a 22 game 2x round robin (assuming there are still 12 clubs including the new Sydney team able to take part) + play-offs, starting in December.

Highly unlikely, I know, but is the best outcome I can imagine happening.

Here’s another scenario: 2020 calendar year is scrapped. Next season to be played is winter 2021. Foxtel cover games only in Sydney and Melbourne, due to smaller deal agreed and to save costs. 

WU, CCM, Jets, MacArthur fall over.

14 team league:

5 Sydney regional clubs - Sydney, WSW, Marconi, Sydney Olympic, Wollongong Wolves

5 Melbourne clubs - Victory, Melbourne City, South Melbourne, Bentleigh Greens, Melbourne Knights 

Perth, Adelaide, Roar, Nix (based in Sydney due to ongoing international travel uncertainty) 

Marquee
1.2K
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5.5K
·
over 13 years

Not A league related, but... Mainland Netball have just gone into voluntary liquidation

Legend
11K
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22K
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about 9 years

Global Game wrote:

hazhapard wrote:

Might provide some certainty to plan next season as consisting of:

- finishing off this season, including playoffs, in Oct-Nov;

- followed immediately by next season reduced to a 22 game 2x round robin (assuming there are still 12 clubs including the new Sydney team able to take part) + play-offs, starting in December.

Highly unlikely, I know, but is the best outcome I can imagine happening.

Here’s another scenario: 2020 calendar year is scrapped. Next season to be played is winter 2021. Foxtel cover games only in Sydney and Melbourne, due to smaller deal agreed and to save costs. 

WU, CCM, Jets, MacArthur fall over.

14 team league:

5 Sydney regional clubs - Sydney, WSW, Marconi, Sydney Olympic, Wollongong Wolves

5 Melbourne clubs - Victory, Melbourne City, South Melbourne, Bentleigh Greens, Melbourne Knights 

Perth, Adelaide, Roar, Nix (based in Sydney due to ongoing international travel uncertainty) 

Definitely a worse case outlook. 

Football's point of difference for Foxtel, is it gives them content over the summer, when they really need it. 

It's all guess work, but I'd be really surprised if they was no A League in some form, at all in the remainder of 2020. That would pretty much mean that the state borders remain closed for the rest of the year, which seems a bit extreme. Once the state borders are reopened, there will be pushes to start up sport behind closed doors.

WeeNix
210
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530
·
about 5 years

coochiee wrote:

Global Game wrote:

hazhapard wrote:

Might provide some certainty to plan next season as consisting of:

- finishing off this season, including playoffs, in Oct-Nov;

- followed immediately by next season reduced to a 22 game 2x round robin (assuming there are still 12 clubs including the new Sydney team able to take part) + play-offs, starting in December.

Highly unlikely, I know, but is the best outcome I can imagine happening.

Here’s another scenario: 2020 calendar year is scrapped. Next season to be played is winter 2021. Foxtel cover games only in Sydney and Melbourne, due to smaller deal agreed and to save costs. 

WU, CCM, Jets, MacArthur fall over.

14 team league:

5 Sydney regional clubs - Sydney, WSW, Marconi, Sydney Olympic, Wollongong Wolves

5 Melbourne clubs - Victory, Melbourne City, South Melbourne, Bentleigh Greens, Melbourne Knights 

Perth, Adelaide, Roar, Nix (based in Sydney due to ongoing international travel uncertainty) 

Definitely a worse case outlook. 

Football's point of difference for Foxtel, is it gives them content over the summer, when they really need it. 

It's all guess work, but I'd be really surprised if they was no A League in some form, at all in the remainder of 2020. That would pretty much mean that the state borders remain closed for the rest of the year, which seems a bit extreme. Once the state borders are reopened, there will be pushes to start up sport behind closed doors.

Problem is with all the games being played behind closed doors in Australia, we might have some trouble getting over there again.

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