2021 All Whites International Fixtures

I was quite surprised just how many more games the women play, against Sweden in their third group game Wilkinson became the 11th women to 100 caps, whereas only 5 men have got to 60 caps, and none to 90, let alone 100. I was looking through the all time AWs caps Wikipedia, and players would have careers over a decade for 30 caps, Reid doesn’t even have 30, Fallon had only 24 surprisingly, Ryan Thomas was 22yo during those Peru games, he’ll likely have only played once before he turns 27.

Moving confederations to AFC probably isn’t in NZF’s hands, regardless of motivation to do it. AFC, especially the Middle Eastern teams don’t want Australia, let alone another couple hours travelling time. Plus the success of Australia since moving has been instead of traditional AFC teams, so why would they want to add another team likely to get in the way of them winning Asian Cups and qualifying for the WC, as New Zealand would be at least consistently challenging for top 5 spots, around Australia, Saudi, Qatar, China etc. 

FIFA are also probably against it as they know, if NZ swap, then the whole OFC will eventually go, and then AFC will be left ranging from Syria in the west to Tahiti in the east, and inevitably calls will start to split east and west. That would be great for NZ competitive games, but a nightmare for bureaucrats at FIFA, so I can’t imagine it happening. 

AFC at the moment is, in my opinion, easier to qualify out of than OFC, evidenced by Australia being 3 from 3 since changing. Top 2 in two different groups make it, so there’s far more room for error than OFC, and even finishing third in your group can get you the same playoff winning OFC gets. If the WC wasn’t expanding I could see why NZF would want to change, but why look a gift horse in the mouth? You might lose the intercontinental playoff, but maybe you’ll get an extended OFC qualifying, not to mention that World Cup money would be able to get games hosted in New Zealand, and reinvest in the local game. It’s been over 7 years since a non-qualifier was hosted here, and OFC teams are improving rapidly, only twice in the last qualifying round did we score 4 or more (5-0 vs Vanuatu and 6-1 vs Solomon Islands) and we also drew three games (0-0 vs PNG and New Caledonia and 2-2 vs Solomons). 

https://footballoceania.com/2020/02/08/opinion-what-the-ofc-nations-league-could-look-like/
This article goes into a bit what that Nations League could look like, and includes inviting the associate members in from the real small OFC nations. CONCACAF does this in their Nations League by inviting teams like Guadeloupe. In the same way that we say playing more games against Japan/Korea/Saudi would improve us, more games against NZ would improve the islands, and thus make it more competitive in OFC. A prime example is that the last team to win the OFC Champions League isn’t a New Zealand team, but Hienghene Sport from New Caledonia. 

The window in the first week of September is probably gone, and with UEFA qualifying being compressed, combined with the Nations League finals in the October window, European teams are probably out of the question. AFC qualifiers also start in September, with the top 12 teams involved there, so any friendly that happens, which I wouldn’t hold my breath for, won’t be against any team of high quality.

The WC qualification issue becomes almost non-existent with the potential increase in teams, giving OFC 1 spot instead of .5. 
You're right about OFC dying if NZ moved to an AFC conference. FIFA would have to then split AFC into East and West - it's doable but the politics would be horrid. It would be good for NZ as far as number of games we'd play but probably bad for us on a qualification level - we'd no longer be the big fish in a small pond. 

Been the big fish in a small pond is only good when we are guaranteed the cherry on the cake (World Cup Qualification). The fact is we aren't, it's not that valuable with qualification less than assured or even 50/50.

Move to Asia and force FIFA to do something for this region.

If the Nix don't get a W-League side then surely the Ferns would have to take the cake for funding. Its a shame NZF wont gamble on a home game vs anyone.

MetalLegNZ

Been the big fish in a small pond is only good when we are guaranteed the cherry on the cake (World Cup Qualification). The fact is we aren't, it's not that valuable with qualification less than assured or even 50/50.

Move to Asia and force FIFA to do something for this region.

100 x this!

I would rather us miss out on going to a World Cup(s), if it meant we had played a proper qualifying tournament against quality sides (South Korea, Japan, Australia etc). That's the level we should aspire to be at!  Not scrounging around until 2026 (and beyond) waiting for a golden bloody ticket to an event every 4 years that should've been left at 32 teams in the first place.

But asking FIFA to do something to help goes against their monetary gathering interests and immediately would be chucked in the too hard basket and we'd end up in the exact same position for the next several years.

carlind

I was quite surprised just how many more games the women play, against Sweden in their third group game Wilkinson became the 11th women to 100 caps, whereas only 5 men have got to 60 caps, and none to 90, let alone 100. I was looking through the all time AWs caps Wikipedia, and players would have careers over a decade for 30 caps, Reid doesn’t even have 30, Fallon had only 24 surprisingly, Ryan Thomas was 22yo during those Peru games, he’ll likely have only played once before he turns 27.

Moving confederations to AFC probably isn’t in NZF’s hands, regardless of motivation to do it. AFC, especially the Middle Eastern teams don’t want Australia, let alone another couple hours travelling time. Plus the success of Australia since moving has been instead of traditional AFC teams, so why would they want to add another team likely to get in the way of them winning Asian Cups and qualifying for the WC, as New Zealand would be at least consistently challenging for top 5 spots, around Australia, Saudi, Qatar, China etc. 

FIFA are also probably against it as they know, if NZ swap, then the whole OFC will eventually go, and then AFC will be left ranging from Syria in the west to Tahiti in the east, and inevitably calls will start to split east and west. That would be great for NZ competitive games, but a nightmare for bureaucrats at FIFA, so I can’t imagine it happening. 

AFC at the moment is, in my opinion, easier to qualify out of than OFC, evidenced by Australia being 3 from 3 since changing. Top 2 in two different groups make it, so there’s far more room for error than OFC, and even finishing third in your group can get you the same playoff winning OFC gets. If the WC wasn’t expanding I could see why NZF would want to change, but why look a gift horse in the mouth? You might lose the intercontinental playoff, but maybe you’ll get an extended OFC qualifying, not to mention that World Cup money would be able to get games hosted in New Zealand, and reinvest in the local game. It’s been over 7 years since a non-qualifier was hosted here, and OFC teams are improving rapidly, only twice in the last qualifying round did we score 4 or more (5-0 vs Vanuatu and 6-1 vs Solomon Islands) and we also drew three games (0-0 vs PNG and New Caledonia and 2-2 vs Solomons). 

https://footballoceania.com/2020/02/08/opinion-what-the-ofc-nations-league-could-look-like/
This article goes into a bit what that Nations League could look like, and includes inviting the associate members in from the real small OFC nations. CONCACAF does this in their Nations League by inviting teams like Guadeloupe. In the same way that we say playing more games against Japan/Korea/Saudi would improve us, more games against NZ would improve the islands, and thus make it more competitive in OFC. A prime example is that the last team to win the OFC Champions League isn’t a New Zealand team, but Hienghene Sport from New Caledonia. 

The window in the first week of September is probably gone, and with UEFA qualifying being compressed, combined with the Nations League finals in the October window, European teams are probably out of the question. AFC qualifiers also start in September, with the top 12 teams involved there, so any friendly that happens, which I wouldn’t hold my breath for, won’t be against any team of high quality.

You make some good points but are OFC teams really improving rapidly? Solomons U17 team at their 2019 WC, lost 0-5, 0-7 & 0-8. They may now have their once in a generation player in Lea'i, but that's not much use if his national team mates ain't anywhere near his class.

Hienghène Sport (a virtual New Caledonian national team??) yes won the last OFC Champions League, but massively helped that their semi against Tee Dubbs was a one leg affair in Noumea, rather than having a 2nd leg in NZ. I can't remember any OFC national or club team achieving any result of note in either NZ, or elsewhere outside the OFC Islands. 

Island nations will always be hamstrung by 2 major problems. Small populations (PNG excepted), and in brutal reality being poor. Read about a new football academy being setup (Solomons I think?) for young OFC talented kids, which will definitely help. But harsh truth is their ceiling for any large improvement will always be limited.

However I'd like to see NZF stay in the OFC. The current benefits with virtual automatic WC/Olympics qualifying for all teams bar the AWs (though yes has been a close run thing for some age group boys teams) are high.

But really hope going forward post 2022 some sort of combined AFC/OFC Nations League setup covering the first 2 years of any 4 year WC cycle, giving AWs some quality competitive games against the better Asian nations can be arranged. Be a crime not to see this group of talented male players, playing at least one 1-2 meaningful home games in NZ each year. Covid is part responsible yes, but the fact that Chris Wood last started a football game in NZ in Sept 2017, coming up 4 years ago is a massive opportunity lost. Over that 4 years he has become a EPL regular banging in the goals, yet all young NZ kids have seen of him is on TV in the early hours.

Pre Covid Infantino was aggressively pushing his World Nations League model. He openly stated that it was wrong that many smaller football nations barely played. And yes the Nations League CONCACAF has now seen some of those Caribbean minnows get regular games, so has worked for them. There is a mysterious group behind this World Nations League push, offering huge dollars. It maybe those very big dollars, that somehow persuade the AFC powerbrokers to setup their own Nations League, and hopefully bring in some OFC teams as well. 

Lastly with the bloated WC expansion in 2026, AFC is mooted to have their current 4.5 team allocation increased to 8.5, so some of that West Asia/Arab country angst to having Australia (or even adding NZ) in AFC will lessen.

The current setup of having the AWs barely play in NZ (especially first 2 years of any WC cycle) is just wrong. Especially now with all these young talented guys up in Europe. Some sort of plan needs to be worked on to have them playing down in NZ, min 1-2 times per year, otherwise another missed opportunity lost for football in NZ.

YoungHeart

MetalLegNZ

Been the big fish in a small pond is only good when we are guaranteed the cherry on the cake (World Cup Qualification). The fact is we aren't, it's not that valuable with qualification less than assured or even 50/50.

Move to Asia and force FIFA to do something for this region.

100 x this!

I would rather us miss out on going to a World Cup(s), if it meant we had played a proper qualifying tournament against quality sides (South Korea, Japan, Australia etc). That's the level we should aspire to be at!  Not scrounging around until 2026 (and beyond) waiting for a golden bloody ticket to an event every 4 years that should've been left at 32 teams in the first place.

But asking FIFA to do something to help goes against their monetary gathering interests and immediately would be chucked in the too hard basket and we'd end up in the exact same position for the next several years.

And over on Australian football forums they're calling to return to Oceania because they rarely qualify for age group competitions out of Asia.

Remember it wasn't that long ago when Tahiti went to the Confed Cup and their U17s to a WC, Also Fiji went to the last Olympics not to mention NZ being pants at Futsal and beach football let alone OCL. NZ is no better off then a Island nation at the moment except World Cup where is has been the dominate team but that could change if we don't have any friendly games to build upon.

Ryan

YoungHeart

MetalLegNZ

Been the big fish in a small pond is only good when we are guaranteed the cherry on the cake (World Cup Qualification). The fact is we aren't, it's not that valuable with qualification less than assured or even 50/50.

Move to Asia and force FIFA to do something for this region.

100 x this!

I would rather us miss out on going to a World Cup(s), if it meant we had played a proper qualifying tournament against quality sides (South Korea, Japan, Australia etc). That's the level we should aspire to be at!  Not scrounging around until 2026 (and beyond) waiting for a golden bloody ticket to an event every 4 years that should've been left at 32 teams in the first place.

But asking FIFA to do something to help goes against their monetary gathering interests and immediately would be chucked in the too hard basket and we'd end up in the exact same position for the next several years.

And over on Australian football forums they're calling to return to Oceania because they rarely qualify for age group competitions out of Asia.

Think there is still a very large part of the Aus football community, that's very happy they left the OFC. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wYfsVYMl3Y

Made 2006 WC, through OFC but that was their first WC appearance in 28 years. Too many intercontinental playoff bad memories to handle - the worst was going out to Iran on away goals at the MCG. 

After joining AFC they have yes made every WC since (3 from 3), plus in a pre Covid world they got to see their Socceroos heroes regularly at home in AFC qualifiers - and also the joy of winning a home Asian Cup.

Just remember that many of these young stars now playing in Europe would likely of been greatly reduced if NZ hadn’t qualified for the U20 World Cup and these guys putting on a good show on the world stage. Almost guaranteed age group qualification did that.

Poco

Remember it wasn't that long ago when Tahiti went to the Confed Cup and their U17s to a WC, Also Fiji went to the last Olympics not to mention NZ being pants at Futsal and beach football let alone OCL. NZ is no better off then a Island nation at the moment except World Cup where is has been the dominate team but that could change if we don't have any friendly games to build upon.

Yes Tahiti got to the 2013 Confeds Cup after the ' Horror in Honiara'. They lost 1-6, 0-10 & 0-8. When did they go to an U17 WC?

Fiji at the 2016 Olympics (after the Deklan Wynne saga) lost 0-8, 1-5 & 0-10. Whenever an OFC team other than NZ are at an international event it is embarrassing, with no visible progress. Again outside of their home conditions in the Islands they are bad, mostly very bad.

Handy Prem sides have dominated the OCL since it's inception.

And whilst yes the AWs need games to prepare for intercontinental playoffs, a near full strength side in home or neutral (eg Middle East) conditions will be a class above any OFC side.

carlind

I was quite surprised just how many more games the women play, against Sweden in their third group game Wilkinson became the 11th women to 100 caps, whereas only 5 men have got to 60 caps, and none to 90, let alone 100. I was looking through the all time AWs caps Wikipedia, and players would have careers over a decade for 30 caps, Reid doesn’t even have 30, Fallon had only 24 surprisingly, Ryan Thomas was 22yo during those Peru games, he’ll likely have only played once before he turns 27.

Moving confederations to AFC probably isn’t in NZF’s hands, regardless of motivation to do it. AFC, especially the Middle Eastern teams don’t want Australia, let alone another couple hours travelling time. Plus the success of Australia since moving has been instead of traditional AFC teams, so why would they want to add another team likely to get in the way of them winning Asian Cups and qualifying for the WC, as New Zealand would be at least consistently challenging for top 5 spots, around Australia, Saudi, Qatar, China etc. 

FIFA are also probably against it as they know, if NZ swap, then the whole OFC will eventually go, and then AFC will be left ranging from Syria in the west to Tahiti in the east, and inevitably calls will start to split east and west. That would be great for NZ competitive games, but a nightmare for bureaucrats at FIFA, so I can’t imagine it happening. 

AFC at the moment is, in my opinion, easier to qualify out of than OFC, evidenced by Australia being 3 from 3 since changing. Top 2 in two different groups make it, so there’s far more room for error than OFC, and even finishing third in your group can get you the same playoff winning OFC gets. If the WC wasn’t expanding I could see why NZF would want to change, but why look a gift horse in the mouth? You might lose the intercontinental playoff, but maybe you’ll get an extended OFC qualifying, not to mention that World Cup money would be able to get games hosted in New Zealand, and reinvest in the local game. It’s been over 7 years since a non-qualifier was hosted here, and OFC teams are improving rapidly, only twice in the last qualifying round did we score 4 or more (5-0 vs Vanuatu and 6-1 vs Solomon Islands) and we also drew three games (0-0 vs PNG and New Caledonia and 2-2 vs Solomons). 

https://footballoceania.com/2020/02/08/opinion-what-the-ofc-nations-league-could-look-like/
This article goes into a bit what that Nations League could look like, and includes inviting the associate members in from the real small OFC nations. CONCACAF does this in their Nations League by inviting teams like Guadeloupe. In the same way that we say playing more games against Japan/Korea/Saudi would improve us, more games against NZ would improve the islands, and thus make it more competitive in OFC. A prime example is that the last team to win the OFC Champions League isn’t a New Zealand team, but Hienghene Sport from New Caledonia. 

The window in the first week of September is probably gone, and with UEFA qualifying being compressed, combined with the Nations League finals in the October window, European teams are probably out of the question. AFC qualifiers also start in September, with the top 12 teams involved there, so any friendly that happens, which I wouldn’t hold my breath for, won’t be against any team of high quality.

Re finding friendlies later this year I guess, with so much WC qualifying around the world happening, and most confederations in catchup mode due to other windows being ruined by Covid, NZF will have a challenge finding some games.

What about a game in Qatar? They won't be busy, having automatic WC qualification. Jordan & our old mates Bahrain also failed to make last round 12 team AFC qualifying, so could be looking for a game. Most of the Middle East is only a 4-6 hour flight from Europe, so a good number of the Euro based AWs crew should be available.

Otherwise a lot of the UEFA WC qualifying pools have 5 teams, so that must mean a few bye rounds during Euro qualifying later this year. Might be able to sneak in a game somewhere.

What could be a hurdle is getting Hay & the other NZ based coaching staff over from NZ. They are all in the midst of 2 weeks MIQ now post the Olympics. They go to Europe/ME for some friendlies later this year, then return to NZ that's 2 more weeks MIQ. They later go to the Middle East in January next year for the mooted OFC tourney, then return to NZ for maybe 2 weeks more in a NZ hotel room staring at the walls. I've done MIQ, it ain't fun.

I see that a few NZ cricketers - Tom Latham and a 1-2 others will be doing 2 more stints of MIQ later this year (post Bangladesh/Pakistan tour & then post India tour). So 4 more weeks, after already doing 2 weeks recently post the tour of England. So maybe Hay & Co will just have to suck it up.

Or maybe by Jan next year, they can get some type of MIQ exemption, being vaccinated, tested etc. Or Danny could just hang around Europe for a few months post any games in the Nov window (finishes 16th Nov?), waiting for the proposed Jan tourney. A Belgian Christmas with his good mate Roberto Martínez, followed by making snow angels up in Sweden with Declan.

Could Rory, who is on the coaching staff at Swansea, and was with Oly Whites in Japan, step in as head gaffere on a temp basis for any NH friendlies Oct/Nov?

But yeah a few problems to solve at Albany, as they plan ahead.

The UEFA qualifiers are trying to do 3 games per window instead of the usual 2, so even teams in the 5 teams group who would have the bye are playing twice in a window, which might put them off chucking another friendly in between. I think the likeliest chance of opposition this year will be Middle East, we were scheduled to play Oman/Bahrain in March last year so they obviously know the federations, but Qatar is unlikely, as they have partnered with Group A in UEFA qualifying, so play friendlies against the 5th team from that group every matchday. The longer the silence on NZF’s front though, the less chance anything happens this year.

MetalLegNZ

Been the big fish in a small pond is only good when we are guaranteed the cherry on the cake (World Cup Qualification). The fact is we aren't, it's not that valuable with qualification less than assured or even 50/50.

Move to Asia and force FIFA to do something for this region.

The cherry isn't the AWs, it's all the age group teams being guaranteed (practically) a spot in their World Cups. 

Hate to be the grumpy old man sounding like a broken record, but the 'move to Asia' thing will not happen. As stated (numerous times) previously, it's only possible if both AFC and OFC agree to it.  One doesn't want us, and the other knows it pretty much spells the end of them if we go.  So it won't happen.  The Aus move only came after a huge amount of expensive, Lowy-led lobbying, and a particular OFC leadership regime that wanted them gone.  Perfect storm for them, but it won't happen for us (smaller fish, less appealing market, etc)

Sure it'd be a nice dream (like recreating the qualifying from 82), but it's not happening.  And knowing that, all energies need to be focused on other solutions to our lack of quality games - other sports have solid international programmes and are less popular than football in NZ.  We need to start thinking outside the box instead of whinging about how Asia won't let us play in their sandpit, even though we bring nothing of value to their party.  We're NZ, there will be solutions, we just need the blinkers off and rip into it.  I think a 2 squad scenario (one Europe/US, one Aus/NZ) is a starting point to generate some fixtures and keep a wide pool of players active (those of international quality, on merit).  

And rather than targeting the likes of England and Italy, there are a big number of smaller/lower tier nations to aim for.  For example, we've played Estonia twice and Lithuania once, and never won any of those games.  Once we start to win those types of fixtures regularly, I believe we'll see things start to rock...  Obviously Covid is a massive factor for the forseeable future, but there are always solutions - we just need to get creative.

I don't remember the story from 2006; why did OFC want Aussie gone?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Australia
Football Australia's origins lie as far back as 1911, with the formation of the "Commonwealth Football Association".[3] This body was then superseded by the Australian Soccer Football Association, which was formed in 1921, with its headquarters in Sydney.[4] The Australian Soccer Football Association operated for forty years, was given FIFA provisional membership in November 1954[5] and this was confirmed in June 1956,[6] however in 1960, the association disbanded after being suspended from FIFA for the poaching of players from overseas.[4] In 1961 the Australian Soccer Federation was formed as a potential successor to the former governing body for the sport. However, this association was refused re-admittance to FIFA until outstanding fines had been paid, which was later done in 1963, seeing the new national body admitted to FIFA.[4]

Isolated from international football, Australia repeatedly applied to join the Asian Football Confederation in 1960,[7] and in 1974[8] but were denied in all requests. Australia with New Zealand eventually formed the Oceania Football Federation (now Oceania Football Confederation) in 1966.[9] Australia resigned as an OFC member in 1972 to pursue membership with the AFC, but they rejoined in 1978.[10][11]

In 1995, the Australian Soccer Federation formally changed its name to Soccer Australia.[4]

In 2003, following Australia's failure to qualify for the 2002 FIFA World Cup, allegations of fraud and mismanagement were levelled at Soccer Australia by elements within the Australian Press including the ABC.[12] Soccer Australia commissioned an independent inquiry known as the Crawford Report as a result of the Australian Government's threat to withdraw funding to the sport. The Australian Government could not interfere as any political interference would have constituted a breach of FIFA Statutes. The findings of the report were critically analysed by the board of Soccer Australia who believed that the recommendations contained therein were not capable of being implemented. The report recommended, among other things, the reconstitution of the governing body with an interim board headed by prominent businessman Frank Lowy. Some three months after Lowy's appointment Soccer Australia was placed into liquidation and Australia Soccer Association (ASA) was created without encompassing the Crawford Report recommendations and effectively disenfranchising all parties who had an interest in Soccer Australia. The Australian Government provided approximately $15 million to the ASA.[13]

On 1 January 2005 ASA renamed itself to Football Federation Australia (FFA), aligning with the general international usage of the word "football", in preference to "soccer", and to also distance itself from the failings of the old Soccer Australia. It coined the phrase "old soccer, new football" to emphasise this.[4]

On 1 January 2006, Football Federation Australia moved from the OFC to the AFC.[4] The move was unanimously endorsed by the AFC Executive Committee on 23 March 2005, and assented by the OFC on 17 April. The FIFA Executive Committee approved the move on 29 June, noting that "as all of the parties involved ... had agreed to the move, the case did not need to be discussed by the FIFA Congress", and was unanimously ratified by the AFC on 10 September.[14][15][16] Football Australia hoped that the move would give Australia a fairer chance of qualifying for the FIFA World Cup and allow A-League clubs to compete in the AFC Champions League, thereby improving the standard of Australian football at both international and club levels with improved competition in the region.[17]

the main reason Aussie left OFC seems to be based on this:

Throughout its history, there have been calls to disband the OFC, or to merge it with the AFC. The calls grew louder in 2003 when FIFA reversed a decision to grant Oceania an automatic spot at the World Cup.[8] Australia's lack of World Cup participation prior to 2006 has been blamed by many on the OFC qualification process, with football writer Matthew Hall stating in 2003, "For World Cup qualification, the Socceroos will win games by cricket scores and then face a sudden-death play-off against a desperate, battle-hardened opponent given a second, or even third, life."[8]

carlind

The UEFA qualifiers are trying to do 3 games per window instead of the usual 2, so even teams in the 5 teams group who would have the bye are playing twice in a window, which might put them off chucking another friendly in between. I think the likeliest chance of opposition this year will be Middle East, we were scheduled to play Oman/Bahrain in March last year so they obviously know the federations, but Qatar is unlikely, as they have partnered with Group A in UEFA qualifying, so play friendlies against the 5th team from that group every matchday. The longer the silence on NZF’s front though, the less chance anything happens this year.

That's a bugger about Qatar, already having a full program. Putting aside the whole FIFA brown paper bag and immoral rationale of them hosting the WC, would be pretty cool & motivating as an AWs player to go there and have a game. A peakshow into what could be.

Some other ME opponent(s) like Bahrain, and/or Jordan - makes sense from trying to simulate some proper foreign travel, as AWs will have for that Intercontinental playoff away leg next year. Oman are through to the last stage 12 team AFC qualifiers, so won't be available.

Switching continents - none of Trindad & Tobago, Guatemala, Nicaragua or Curaçao made the final round 8 team CONCACAF qualifying, that starts in September. Could play a double header stateside at some 'neutral' US venue, like the AWs have done in the past. Roly Bonevacia's little Curaçao have actually done pretty well the last few years. Gus Hiddink is their manager.

But failing that or some UEFA opponents, why can't if just be a non FIFA 'A' International of some sort. Verus a club team or whatever, plus training camp.

Australia 'B" (Euro based) at Craven Cottage. Aussie must have 50-100 guys floating around up north at various levels. Thomas to help secure a training camp in Eindhoven with a game against PSV Jong? Or Rory to broker 5 days at Swansea FC, and then a game against Wales 'B'. 

Just mindful that may struggle to get the full AWs coaching, medical & training staff entourage over from NZ, for a 5-7 camp plus game(s), up north. Considering that they would then all have to return to NZ for 2 weeks MIQ yet again. So may need the help of some UEFA FAs or clubs in Europe to provide physios, trainers & the like. Guys like Wood, Reid etc (and their paymaster clubs) rightly expect top drawer off field facilities, support staff etc, when they go play for their national team.

But to me is absolutely key that the AWs secure some sort of camp(s) and game(s) in NH later this year. Again those June 2022 playoff games will come around fast. AWs on paper have their best midfield ever, but Thomas has only ever played 1 game with Bell & Singh and that's coming up 2 years ago. He's never played/trained with Stensness. Others like Marinovic, Boxall & Tuiloma barely know the younger players. They all badly need time on the grass together as a squad.

Had this in wrong thread initially.

Sounds promising re some friendlies. Oct - AFC or CONCACAF, Nov - UEFA, Jan - OFC qualifying in Qatar, March - AFC or CONCACAF, June - warmup against Socceroos in NZ (can but hope), then Intercontinental playoffs. Could be quite a full program ahead for the AWs. Fingers crossed.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/126020446/all-whites-determined-to-play-this-year-as-world-cup-qualifying-campaign-looms

“I think it's critical that we try and bring a large number of the players that were with us in Japan back together and then bring other players in, that are based around either Europe or the US.

“It's not an easy operation. It's tough getting the games, as everybody will be aware, but we're going to make it happen.

“We're very determined that it's going to happen and if that's going to mean a few staff members being based over in Europe for a couple of months, then so be it.

“We're just champing at the bit to get it going again.”

There are no European opponents available in the October window, so New Zealand Football will likely have to look to the Middle East and west Asia, where Bahrain, Jordan, Kuwait, and Uzbekistan are among the nations yet to organise fixtures.

In November, there are several European countries with dates free, including the Czech Republic, who made the quarterfinals at Euro 2020 in July, and Lithuania, the All Whites’ most recent opponents.

Managed isolation and quarantine requirements are set to rule players based in Australia and New Zealand out of any matches arranged later this year, but there should be enough players based in Europe and the US available for Hay to assemble a squad.

That group grew by one this week, with midfielder-turned-defender Gianni Stensness on the move from Australia to Norway following a strong Olympic campaign.

While Hay is busy preparing for the end of 2021, he is also hoping to soon have some clarity as to what the start of 2022 will look like for the All Whites.

An Oceania World Cup qualifying tournament is set to take place in January in the Middle East, as local venues were unviable as a result of Covid-19 border restrictions, with the winner advancing to an intercontinental playoff in June for one of the final two spots in the tournament, which has been moved from its usual place in the middle of the year to November and December.

The best team from Oceania will play either the fourth-best team from North and Central America, the fifth-best team from Asia, or the fifth-best team from South America in that playoff, with a draw to determine the exact matchup expected to take place soon.

“I know they're looking closely at having the OFC qualifiers in Qatar,” Hay said.

No more "All Whites" - if they do decide to remove the name hopefully they let the football public choose the name.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/300388904/no-more-all-whites-nz-football-consider-dropping-national-teams-nickname

Not that it really matters as they never play actual games anyway.

theprof

No more "All Whites" - if they do decide to remove the name hopefully they let the football public choose the name.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/300388904/no-more-all-whites-nz-football-consider-dropping-national-teams-nickname

Not that it really matters as they never play actual games anyway.

Beyond parody if people are genuinely offended by a white playing strip, but it’s 2021 so I wouldn’t be surprised. Black strip looks better than the white, and of course better represents New Zealand (or to quote NZF, Aotearoa), so I wouldn’t mind dropping All Whites if we got a black kit. But what is most likely is they will keep the white strip to ‘not abandon our history’ but will probably change the name to the Maori translation of All Whites. Either way it’s good to see this is how NZF uses resources instead of organising games for a team that has played twice since June 2018.

Way to spectacularly (deliberately?) miss the point, literally nobody is offended by a white playing strip and there has been no suggestion as such.

Great way to deflect attention from an under performing White Ferns team and a never playing All Whites team.

Will both names change?

I understand why they're looking at this - while we in NZ understand the name and the context, it doesn't look great from the outside looking in. 

Obviously there's no parallels to draw to the White Ferns here, as its the combination of the "All" with the "Whites" is what implies the exclusion. Suspect the same isn't true for the All Blacks given the much larger brand recognition they have globally and so doesn't get quite the same raised eyebrows.

That said, I'm not sure it should be an overly high priority and its not a great look to focus on this when we can't even arrange football games. Work on the must-haves before getting into the nice-to-haves.

I do think the "All Whites" name is just a bit shark too.

Worth having a discussion about. I've never personally liked the name All Whites. Bit of a poor mans all blacks. Would prefer something more football specific for identity. And can understand the argument about having a name that is more culturally inclusive. 
Prefer the black strip. Thought the olympic black strip was great.
White strip is ok. But I know women particularly don't like playing in white shorts.

Ranix

Worth having a discussion about. I've never personally liked the name All Whites. Bit of a poor mans all blacks. Would prefer something more football specific for identity. And can understand the argument about having a name that is more culturally inclusive. 
Prefer the black strip. Thought the olympic black strip was great.
White strip is ok. But I know women particularly don't like playing in white shorts.

Let's play in a Juventus-esque black and white striped shirt! (I think we have in the past?) 

EDIT: the away shirt here would make a great home strip, with black shorts and socks; https://www.toffs.com/shop-by-team/football/international/new-zealand 

Fitzy

Way to spectacularly (deliberately?) miss the point, literally nobody is offended by a white playing strip and there has been no suggestion as such.

Obviously not, it’s an exaggerated point to emphasise the ridiculousness of it all, but the name very obviously refers to the playing strip, and the fact the discussion is going on at all suggests that someone has thought there’s an issue. 

That being said, it (and almost every other sports’ national team nickname) is based off the All Blacks brand, plus the name has kept us from using a black home kit, which always look better than the white, and would mean we don’t share a home kit with half of the world. Only reason white is the home is because of a rule that black was specifically for referees which no longer applies.

Some strong All Lives Matter vibes in this thread tbh.

Fitzy

Some strong All Lives Matter vibes in this thread tbh.

This is not an argument. People feel connected to the All Whites name, and there's a very good argument not to change it. You don't get to dismiss that argument by implying everyone who is against change is a racist.

This is half the problem with the world. You can no longer have so much as a discussion without someone screaming racism.

carlind

Fitzy

Way to spectacularly (deliberately?) miss the point, literally nobody is offended by a white playing strip and there has been no suggestion as such.

Obviously not, it’s an exaggerated point to emphasise the ridiculousness of it all, but the name very obviously refers to the playing strip, and the fact the discussion is going on at all suggests that someone has thought there’s an issue. 

That being said, it (and almost every other sports’ national team nickname) is based off the All Blacks brand, plus the name has kept us from using a black home kit, which always look better than the white, and would mean we don’t share a home kit with half of the world. Only reason white is the home is because of a rule that black was specifically for referees which no longer applies.

is that last sentence fact?

More to the point -  does anyone have clear evidence of a lack of cultural inclusivity in New Zealand Football? And if so, does anyone think changing the name will effect that at all? Do you think the thing that stops young kids of different cultures playing football is the name of the national team?

This change reeks of an under-performing marketing department that probably doesn't understand the first thing about football needing an excuse for why they're under-performing. Don't fall for it.

Begs the question then,
What name would be better for cultural identity.
All Whites name does have the history (since 1982). 40 years.
No point changing just for the sake of it, unless there was a much better option that could be used to build a new football centred cultural identity.
Nothing springs to mind for me, And I don't know if I would trust NZF to come up with something better. 

We could copy the Yanks and just be the NZMNT

20 Legend

Fitzy

Some strong All Lives Matter vibes in this thread tbh.

This is not an argument. People feel connected to the All Whites name, and there's a very good argument not to change it. You don't get to dismiss that argument by implying everyone who is against change is a racist.

This is half the problem with the world. You can no longer have so much as a discussion without someone screaming racism.

Ok that's kind of fair, to be clear I don't think everyone who is against the change is a racist. But I do think that anyone who just out-of-hand dismisses any possibility that the name could be taken as racist is being naive or dishonest. And the red herrings ('people are against the colour white!', 'the white ferns will have to change their name as well!') are unhelpful and clearly miss the point. 

I think it's a dumb idea.  There was nothing the least bit prejudiced in its origin or, to my knowledge, its use up to the present day.  To draw comparisons with the teams names in American sport is blatantly ignorant and detracts from the genuine issues over there.

Football in this country often struggles to truly preserve and acknowledge positive aspects of its heritage.  This nickname, and its origin story, is one of the things I feel is worth preserving.  People are absolutely entitled not to like it or think its a bit naff, but to suggest it needs to be changed to meet Treaty principles is ignorant in the extreme and one of the craziest things I've heard in ages.

Kāore e taea e au kia mohio te whakaaro pūtake ki tēnei momo kōrero.  Kaua e whakahuri tēnā ingoa - i puta mai i ngā wā o mua, ā, he kōrero hirahira tēnā.

Khalil Media

I think it's a dumb idea.  There was nothing the least bit prejudiced in its origin or, to my knowledge, its use up to the present day.  To draw comparisons with the teams names in American sport is blatantly ignorant and detracts from the genuine issues over there.

Football in this country often struggles to truly preserve and acknowledge positive aspects of its heritage.  This nickname, and its origin story, is one of the things I feel is worth preserving.  People are absolutely entitled not to like it or think its a bit naff, but to suggest it needs to be changed to meet Treaty principles is ignorant in the extreme and one of the craziest things I've heard in ages.

Kāore e taea e au kia mohio te whakaaro pūtake ki tēnei momo kōrero.  Kaua e whakahuri tēnā ingoa - i puta mai i ngā wā o mua, ā, he kōrero hirahira tēnā.

 any background you can give on our historical playing colours and the AW name?

Ranix

Begs the question then,
What name would be better for cultural identity.
All Whites name does have the history (since 1982). 40 years.
No point changing just for the sake of it, unless there was a much better option that could be used to build a new football centred cultural identity.
Nothing springs to mind for me, And I don't know if I would trust NZF to come up with something better. 

We should be called something that is truly reflective of football in this country. 

How about The Never Plays?

Was basically what was explained in the article.  The team played in white shirts and black shorts for ages (there was that funky stripy number in the 1960s too, which I thought was cool).  When the World Cup qualifiers began in 1981, they had the normal kit v Australia at Mt Smart, and then the blue alternate strip in Fiji.  Their next two away games were in Taiwan and Indonesia - both broadcast here late at night, played in floodlit stadiums, and for whatever reason they wore white shorts rather than black, meaning a completely white strip.  The results grabbed attention, and a journalist back in NZ coined the AWs nickname purely and simply as a play on the All Blacks (as no other NZ national teams back then had nicknames).  

Then they beat Australia in Sydney, the nickname stuck and became a marketing tool - there was even songs recorded!! - and that was that.  Nothing sinister or prejudiced, simply the colour of their kit...

Khalil Media

Was basically what was explained in the article.  The team played in white shirts and black shorts for ages (there was that funky stripy number in the 1960s too, which I thought was cool).  When the World Cup qualifiers began in 1981, they had the normal kit v Australia at Mt Smart, and then the blue alternate strip in Fiji.  Their next two away games were in Taiwan and Indonesia - both broadcast here late at night, played in floodlit stadiums, and for whatever reason they wore white shorts rather than black, meaning a completely white strip.  The results grabbed attention, and a journalist back in NZ coined the AWs nickname purely and simply as a play on the All Blacks (as no other NZ national teams back then had nicknames).  

Then they beat Australia in Sydney, the nickname stuck and became a marketing tool - there was even songs recorded!! - and that was that.  Nothing sinister or prejudiced, simply the colour of their kit...

So our identity as a national football side is based on being a discount All Blacks? That's enough reason to change in and of itself.