2021 All Whites International Fixtures

I'd suggest our identity is based on an historic World Cup qualifying achievement (that included a couple of World records), the unifying effect of a team that helped the NZ sporting public recover from the horrific experience of the 81 Springbok Tour, a first World Cup appearance and Oceania's first ever goals there, a legacy of some iconic and legendary players (chief amongst them Rufer and Sumner), and subsequent generations of players aspiring to emulate them all the way through to another historic Word Cup tilt in 2010 (where, from memory, no one was too bothered with them being the All Whites).

But sure, if you want to mock it as some wannabe thing then by all means go ahead.

Khalil Media

I'd suggest our identity is based on an historic World Cup qualifying achievement (that included a couple of World records), the unifying effect of a team that helped the NZ sporting public recover from the horrific experience of the 81 Springbok Tour, a first World Cup appearance and Oceania's first ever goals there, a legacy of some iconic and legendary players (chief amongst them Rufer and Sumner), and subsequent generations of players aspiring to emulate them all the way through to another historic Word Cup tilt in 2010 (where, from memory, no one was too bothered with them being the All Whites).

But sure, if you want to mock it as some wannabe thing then by all means go ahead.

Its all of the above, isn't it? Obviously there's more to the history than being a knock-off All Blacks, but that doesn't change the fact that its an All Blacks inspired name, which by comparison feels lacklustre. Every time I hear "All Whites", the reference & comparison to the All Blacks is both obvious & grating - our identity shouldn't be based on the achievements & notoriety of another, rival code given we are our own sport trying to forge our own name - don't think for a second that overseas fans don't also notice that the name is a derivation piggy-backing off a better known team.

I've already made my points on why I think we should change it though - the relationship to the All Blacks name is minor in comparison to the rest.

It’s a bonus that the name is the opposite to the oval ball 

it's an interesting one, I for one dont think NZF has a history of not being inclusive - I could be way wrong there.
the name All whites could easily draw some looks from outside NZ. A name change could be interesting and well worthwhile, but like many have said I'd rather NZF focused on getting us game time both at home and away before they spend whatever little money we have left on a nickname change

It is fairly obvious that the players are not all whites, with stars like Sarpreet in the line up, and I don't think there is any bias towards selection on racial basis. Same as the pakeha players playing for the All Blacks. However, I guess the name becomes very hard to understand for many when we are not playing in an all white strip. 

If everyone remembers back in 2010 World Cup in SOUTH AFRICA they use the name to no offence, no backlash and a full understanding on where the name came about. So if it was excepted @ a World Cup in African continent then i see no harm in the name and it should stay. There is to much woke and cancel culture out there not to mention BLM movement that makes names like this sensitive but does it? 
Australia went through this as well back in 2002 and wanted to drop the Socceroo name to just call them Australia national team but the name had a cultural significances because of the Vietnam war (where they got their name) and they didn't go ahead with the change.

To take a more diplomatic view:
Colour nicknames are fairly common eg Azzuri - Italy; Albiceleste - Argentina; Nerazzuri Inter; Les Bleus - France; Schwarzgelben - Dortmund etc etc. Nicknames aren’t really that important though, how many times would you call any of those teams that name, it’s basically a second-mention term for commentators, and because it feels awkward to call your own national team by the country name.

Few countries don’t bother, and just have ‘team’ in the language eg Seleção for Brazil means selection in Portuguese; Sbornaya is Russian for team, die Mannschaft German for team. They’re boring for native speakers but work for foreigners because they’re exotic, eg Maori for selection is tīpakonga, which is unique and isn’t that bad.

The other route is the African national team route and go after an animal eg Les Elephants (Ivory Coast); Indomitable Lions (Cameroon); Super eagles (Nigeria); The squirrels (Benin) etc. The obvious choice would be Kiwis but that’s been and done, and after that becomes a bit less obvious.

As with any business decision inertia is biggest hurdle, people are slow to adapt, but I can try to see all sides. I still don’t buy that the current name isn’t ‘inclusive’ (whatever their definition of it is) but I’m not stuck to ‘All Whites’ either. Plus dropping All Whites gives the opportunity to play in the black kits which are always cold as (shoutout to Nike).

Japan -Samurai Blue 

Poco

If everyone remembers back in 2010 World Cup in SOUTH AFRICA they use the name to no offence, no backlash and a full understanding on where the name came about. So if it was excepted @ a World Cup in African continent then i see no harm in the name and it should stay. There is to much woke and cancel culture out there not to mention BLM movement that makes names like this sensitive but does it? 
Australia went through this as well back in 2002 and wanted to drop the Socceroo name to just call them Australia national team but the name had a cultural significances because of the Vietnam war (where they got their name) and they didn't go ahead with the change.

How do you know there was no offence, no backlash and full understanding in 2010? Did you ask everyone? Was there a survey? To be honest I’m not sure you’re doing your side any favours with your ‘this is stupid and also the BLM movement has gone too far’ argument.

Uggh, you'd think the governing body of football in this country would be busy prioritizing some international football fixtures over some arbitrary name change.

Keep up the good work NZF...🙄

The New Zealand Team should be called New Zealand.

The All Whites can be a fan-held reference. It might fade out over time, it might not. But I think our national team should be called by its national name.

cue, should we call them New Zealand, Aoteroa, or Aoteroa New Zealand for the next debate.

Fitzy

Poco

If everyone remembers back in 2010 World Cup in SOUTH AFRICA they use the name to no offence, no backlash and a full understanding on where the name came about. So if it was excepted @ a World Cup in African continent then i see no harm in the name and it should stay. There is to much woke and cancel culture out there not to mention BLM movement that makes names like this sensitive but does it? 
Australia went through this as well back in 2002 and wanted to drop the Socceroo name to just call them Australia national team but the name had a cultural significances because of the Vietnam war (where they got their name) and they didn't go ahead with the change.

How do you know there was no offence, no backlash and full understanding in 2010? Did you ask everyone? Was there a survey? To be honest I’m not sure you’re doing your side any favours with your ‘this is stupid and also the BLM movement has gone too far’ argument.

It was the biggest sporting event in the world that year, IF the name "All Whites" offended anyone it would have made headlines. It didn't and if it did everyone would known about it.

I tend to think that the "all whites" title should be dropped simply because, even if it was never intended, it does tend to draw an unfortunate connection to the all blacks. Football is the biggest sport in the world, we shouldn't be having a name that's second fiddle in the minds of most kiwis. Just New Zealand will do for me.

Monto

I tend to think that the "all whites" title should be dropped simply because, even if it was never intended, it does tend to draw an unfortunate connection to the all blacks. Football is the biggest sport in the world, we shouldn't be having a name that's second fiddle in the minds of most kiwis. Just New Zealand will do for me.

The "All Whites", as a branding exercise, is a terrible name regardless of whatever (limited) history it has  - we'd laugh at the All Reds, or All Blues.....
I would say "why do we even need a nickname?", but a lot of countries do, so I guess we have to defer to that trend.  

If you get rid of the nickname "All Whites", You have to get rid of the "All Blacks" too. You can't ban one without banning the other. Whilst at it, give the frigging "Rainbow" back to the Leprechauns too, I want my pot of gold. Until a recent development hijacked the name that caters for only a select group of people.

This "Woke", "PC" crap is really doing my head in. All Whites because of their Kit. End of. All Blacks is now because of their Kit, end of. Even it it started with a typo error intending "All Backs" because of their style of play back at the turn of last century.

Has anyone, actually in NZ or overseas, expressed that they are troubled and offended by a sporting team that wears white kit being nicknamed the All Whites?  If there is, then fine, I think there's a conversation to have (and no need for anyone to start wailing about woke or PC, especially when they don't apply here - let's just have adult conversations).  But if no one has actually said that, are we just in the midst of some weird straw-man scenario?
If people don't like or want to use the nickname, that's up to them.  But to have a governing body considering an official change in these circumstances does seem a little odd to say the least.  
But I guess I'm biased - I've only ever known this team to be called the All Whites, and it was a big deal during my childhood and then adult life to watch and follow the All Whites.  Maybe I'm just getting grumpy in my old age.

So you can’t have nicknames anymore? Pathetic. 

Khalil Media

Has anyone, actually in NZ or overseas, expressed that they are troubled and offended by a sporting team that wears white kit being nicknamed the All Whites?  If there is, then fine, I think there's a conversation to have (and no need for anyone to start wailing about woke or PC, especially when they don't apply here - let's just have adult conversations).  But if no one has actually said that, are we just in the midst of some weird straw-man scenario?
If people don't like or want to use the nickname, that's up to them.  But to have a governing body considering an official change in these circumstances does seem a little odd to say the least.  
But I guess I'm biased - I've only ever known this team to be called the All Whites, and it was a big deal during my childhood and then adult life to watch and follow the All Whites.  Maybe I'm just getting grumpy in my old age.

I guess someone said something, that is why NZF have put it out there. 
On National radio, Ryan Nelson commented something along the lines that if there was only just a few that were offended by the All Whites nametag then changing it should be considered. That's coming from a past captain.
I think this will all come to nothing though, as I can't imagine what NZF could possible come up with as a replacement to All Whites.

Khalil Media

Has anyone, actually in NZ or overseas, expressed that they are troubled and offended by a sporting team that wears white kit being nicknamed the All Whites?  If there is, then fine, I think there's a conversation to have (and no need for anyone to start wailing about woke or PC, especially when they don't apply here - let's just have adult conversations).  But if no one has actually said that, are we just in the midst of some weird straw-man scenario?
If people don't like or want to use the nickname, that's up to them.  But to have a governing body considering an official change in these circumstances does seem a little odd to say the least.  
But I guess I'm biased - I've only ever known this team to be called the All Whites, and it was a big deal during my childhood and then adult life to watch and follow the All Whites.  Maybe I'm just getting grumpy in my old age.

 I'm pretty sure that there were eyebrows raised internationally in 2010?

Lonegunmen

If you get rid of the nickname "All Whites", You have to get rid of the "All Blacks" too. You can't ban one without banning the other. Whilst at it, give the frigging "Rainbow" back to the Leprechauns too, I want my pot of gold. Until a recent development hijacked the name that caters for only a select group of people.

This "Woke", "PC" crap is really doing my head in. All Whites because of their Kit. End of. All Blacks is now because of their Kit, end of. Even it it started with a typo error intending "All Backs" because of their style of play back at the turn of last century.

Totally agree LG can't even open our mouths these day without offending anyone. They are the All Whites and always will be, this woke society is doing my head in too, and the government ain't making it any better with the proposed hate speech law, that's if Faifoa and this lame duck administration can achieve something they haven't been able to do previously ie kiwis build etc

Lonegunmen

If you get rid of the nickname "All Whites", You have to get rid of the "All Blacks" too. You can't ban one without banning the other. Whilst at it, give the frigging "Rainbow" back to the Leprechauns too, I want my pot of gold. Until a recent development hijacked the name that caters for only a select group of people.

This "Woke", "PC" crap is really doing my head in. All Whites because of their Kit. End of. All Blacks is now because of their Kit, end of. Even it it started with a typo error intending "All Backs" because of their style of play back at the turn of last century.

That argument is literally the exact opposite of common sense. 

Khalil Media

Has anyone, actually in NZ or overseas, expressed that they are troubled and offended by a sporting team that wears white kit being nicknamed the All Whites?  If there is, then fine, I think there's a conversation to have (and no need for anyone to start wailing about woke or PC, especially when they don't apply here - let's just have adult conversations).  But if no one has actually said that, are we just in the midst of some weird straw-man scenario?
If people don't like or want to use the nickname, that's up to them.  But to have a governing body considering an official change in these circumstances does seem a little odd to say the least.  
But I guess I'm biased - I've only ever known this team to be called the All Whites, and it was a big deal during my childhood and then adult life to watch and follow the All Whites.  Maybe I'm just getting grumpy in my old age.

 I have a different opinion but I appreciate your approach to this, the amount of people immediately dismissing this out of hand has really surprised me. It’s revealing who is throwing around terms like ‘woke’ and ‘PC’, with even the odd bit of homophobia thrown in. 

Fitzy

Khalil Media

Has anyone, actually in NZ or overseas, expressed that they are troubled and offended by a sporting team that wears white kit being nicknamed the All Whites?  If there is, then fine, I think there's a conversation to have (and no need for anyone to start wailing about woke or PC, especially when they don't apply here - let's just have adult conversations).  But if no one has actually said that, are we just in the midst of some weird straw-man scenario?
If people don't like or want to use the nickname, that's up to them.  But to have a governing body considering an official change in these circumstances does seem a little odd to say the least.  
But I guess I'm biased - I've only ever known this team to be called the All Whites, and it was a big deal during my childhood and then adult life to watch and follow the All Whites.  Maybe I'm just getting grumpy in my old age.

 I have a different opinion but I appreciate your approach to this, the amount of people immediately dismissing this out of hand has really surprised me. It’s revealing who is throwing around terms like ‘woke’ and ‘PC’, with even the odd bit of homophobia thrown in. 

Dude/dudette, I've just come out of therapy for my elbow and I've been told to place "100% less stress" on it.  So I'm struggling a little bit to be honest.  I'm in a bad place....So can you please stop using phrases like "throwing around" and change to a phrase which is slightly less humiliating given my current predicament...Thank you.

Tobbymate

Lonegunmen

If you get rid of the nickname "All Whites", You have to get rid of the "All Blacks" too. You can't ban one without banning the other. Whilst at it, give the frigging "Rainbow" back to the Leprechauns too, I want my pot of gold. Until a recent development hijacked the name that caters for only a select group of people.

This "Woke", "PC" crap is really doing my head in. All Whites because of their Kit. End of. All Blacks is now because of their Kit, end of. Even it it started with a typo error intending "All Backs" because of their style of play back at the turn of last century.

Totally agree LG can't even open our mouths these day without offending anyone. They are the All Whites and always will be, this woke society is doing my head in too, and the government ain't making it any better with the proposed hate speech law, that's if Faifoa and this lame duck administration can achieve something they haven't been able to do previously ie kiwis build etc

Your lame Duck political Party is an even bigger joke. An MP that gets his dick out takes a photo of it and sends it to young girls, Another MP who distributes confidential information given to him by a former President of the National Party to stir up the red necks in his electorate, Southland. A National Party candidate in North Harbour who was a sex fend and to top it off Crusher Collins who picks on overweight people when she is a porker. I suppose in your terms all that is Woke?

I bet this thread gets renamed to NZ Men’s national team fixtures. 

In this day & age, I can totally understand why folks overseas would do a double take, when hearing of a National team called the 'All Whites'. Luckily maybe we never play a CAF team in those intercontinental playoffs, where it could be made a big issue.

It's a blurred one, even more than a fan group called 'Yellow Fever'.

This from someone who likes most of what Jordan Peterson spouts, so don't consider myself 'woke'. Oh and for a little relevance Peru's national team is nick named 'Blanca y Roja'. White & Red.

As a long term off shore kiwi far far away from the South Pacific I can assure that the name "All Whites" is NEVER used by commentators from Europe (including UK and Ireland), Africa, South America and most, if not all of Asia.  It is very much the domain of kiwi and Aussie commentators.

Also my old man controlled a number of AW and WF games as a linesman and referee in the early 80s and confirmed it was a FIFA statute at the time that refs had to be in black so NZ as a footballing minnow had to change colours.

During the Olympic coverage of the sevens, BBC had kiwi commentators and my European friends kept asking me why NZ used a nick name based on colour for the women's and men's rugby teams when every other nation was called by their nation.

While we are talking about BS nicknames cane we ditch Black Caps and Black Sticks too, both are rubbish names and the cricket one is less then 20 years old. 

This is why, people will always love the name "All Whites"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VMUlMy0wEM

The badminton team is called the Black Cocks... surely that won't fly (pun intended)

MetalLegNZ

The badminton team is called the Black Cocks... surely that won't fly (pun intended)

Without doubt, the greatest nickname of all time. Hard to see why they dropped it.....cough.....

How about we call them New Zealand, as offically that is thei  name. When they out there sing anthem they sing the new Zealand national anthem, have new Zealand badge on kit. 

Marto

As a long term off shore kiwi far far away from the South Pacific I can assure that the name "All Whites" is NEVER used by commentators from Europe (including UK and Ireland), Africa, South America and most, if not all of Asia.  It is very much the domain of kiwi and Aussie commentators.

Also my old man controlled a number of AW and WF games as a linesman and referee in the early 80s and confirmed it was a FIFA statute at the time that refs had to be in black so NZ as a footballing minnow had to change colours.

During the Olympic coverage of the sevens, BBC had kiwi commentators and my European friends kept asking me why NZ used a nick name based on colour for the women's and men's rugby teams when every other nation was called by their nation.

While we are talking about BS nicknames cane we ditch Black Caps and Black Sticks too, both are rubbish names and the cricket one is less then 20 years old. 

Why refer yourself as a kiwi? Shouldn’t it be New Zealander? Pfff

How about - there is no actual plan for the team name to change, this all started with a trollish comment by fascist-adjacent talkback host Peter Williams, and he's got what he wanted, a culture war. Look at you guys yelling at each other.

that may all be true Deloras but he's not the only one reporting it, NZF will be looking at the nickname and its right that we as fans discuss it. Looking back there's only a couple here who are "yelling" and one of them is Royz just working the room as he does.

Really? football people surely recognise the name is based on the colour of the kit, as someone else posted, that is something quite prevalent. I think even Leeds United were referred to occasionally as all whites (I know they are more well known and referred to as the Lilly whites). I know we are in a different age, but in this case it would of been better for NZF (if the issue was raised) simply said, it is not a race based name, it is an unreasonable stretch to even think it is and it is based on a non racial convention of naming teams after the colour of their kit. Come on you whites…..

theprof

it's an interesting one, I for one dont think NZF has a history of not being inclusive - I could be way wrong there.
the name All whites could easily draw some looks from outside NZ. A name change could be interesting and well worthwhile, but like many have said I'd rather NZF focused on getting us game time both at home and away before they spend whatever little money we have left on a nickname change

Napier Phoenix

Really? football people surely recognise the name is based on the colour of the kit, as someone else posted, that is something quite prevalent. I think even Leeds United were referred to occasionally as all whites (I know they are more well known and referred to as the Lilly whites). I know we are in a different age, but in this case it would of been better for NZF (if the issue was raised) simply said, it is not a race based name, it is an unreasonable stretch to even think it is and it is based on a non racial convention of naming teams after the colour of their kit. Come on you whites…..

theprof

it's an interesting one, I for one dont think NZF has a history of not being inclusive - I could be way wrong there.
the name All whites could easily draw some looks from outside NZ. A name change could be interesting and well worthwhile, but like many have said I'd rather NZF focused on getting us game time both at home and away before they spend whatever little money we have left on a nickname change

I agree with you, maybe (probably) football people who follow the game get it, but they probably aren't the ones questioning it. Out of context the "All whites" moniker will most definitely sound racist, in context it's pretty clear. But then given the team also sometimes wear a black or even blue kit the nickname is even less obvious. Like most I'm sure the footballing media around the world refer to the team as the New Zealand men's football team, with no reference to the nickname and personally I don't think the team even really needs one, except for the White Noise chants. 

The nickname change is just a bit of a sideshow really. They won't change the name All Whites. But good on NZF for doing an inclusivity review. 
We only have a small talent pool here in NZ, so we need to include everyone we possible can to identify the talent and nurture it through to national level. It is evident at junior level that football is alot more multicultural than it used to be (but still room for improvement). and it is only just starting to come through at National level. Rugby popularity is on the downward trend at the moment. Great opportunity for football to step in. By being seen by the wider public as totally inclusive is an important step along the way.

Ranix

The nickname change is just a bit of a sideshow really. They won't change the name All Whites. But good on NZF for doing an inclusivity review. 
We only have a small talent pool here in NZ, so we need to include everyone we possible can to identify the talent and nurture it through to national level. It is evident at junior level that football is alot more multicultural than it used to be (but still room for improvement). and it is only just starting to come through at National level. Rugby popularity is on the downward trend at the moment. Great opportunity for football to step in. By being seen by the wider public as totally inclusive is an important step along the way.

Best post from this whole debate, for mine. I like how you removed emotion from proceedings, and looked at the issue logically. 

I dealt a lot with cricket administrations in a previous life.....you want exclusivity and narrow mindedness? You go see them....football, at grass roots, is a shining light in comparison. 

The best take on this topic by a mile:

https://postingdad.medium.com/whats-in-a-name-224b9dea937f

Nelfoos

The best take on this topic by a mile:

https://postingdad.medium.com/whats-in-a-name-224b9dea937f

best bit: .. away from reality and into a lot of adult men yelling at each other on twitter because there’s a Delta variant COVID-19 outbreak and everyone’s stuck at home feeling scared.