Didn't a 2nd sting u23 team go up to the islands and win pacific games under des? Did they play full national teams in that?
Yep, and even if we do have to have a full amateur team made up of national league and college soccer guys it would almost definitely be better than that Pacific Games squad. That being said that tournament wasn’t a sure thing, and they had a couple tight games. They were insignificant at the time as who really cares about the Pacific Games, but would be worrying if qualification was riding on it.
To look on the bright side, OFC gave us the competitive qualifiers we’ve been asking for, they’ve flattened the playing field, so it’ll probably end up one of the tightest qualifying campaigns we'll actually have to go through in OFC since Australia left.
Yep, and even if we do have to have a full amateur team made up of national league and college soccer guys it would almost definitely be better than that Pacific Games squad.
The US College players will be well outside of season and if I recall they are quite restricted over there on off season activity, unless they come back to NZ.
Didn't a 2nd sting u23 team go up to the islands and win pacific games under des? Did they play full national teams in that?
Yep, and even if we do have to have a full amateur team made up of national league and college soccer guys it would almost definitely be better than that Pacific Games squad. That being said that tournament wasn’t a sure thing, and they had a couple tight games. They were insignificant at the time as who really cares about the Pacific Games, but would be worrying if qualification was riding on it.
To look on the bright side, OFC gave us the competitive qualifiers we’ve been asking for, they’ve flattened the playing field, so it’ll probably end up one of the tightest qualifying campaigns we'll actually have to go through in OFC since Australia left.
It's a double edged sword. On the one hand I am chuffed that as you say suddenly we have got the most competitive qualifiers in a long, long time on our hands. On the other hand I don't know how other fans feel but I can say at least for myself since the August olympic campaign, I've really bought into this team. I believe in them. There's a sense of pride they really make me feel that has been lacking since 2010. For me this team is the depth of youngsters we have coming through the ranks. It's Joe Bell, it's Sapreet and Cacace taking Europe by storm screaming "F you if you haven't heard of New Zealand before, you've definitely heard of us now." It's long term servants of the New Zelaand game like Wood and Winston finally getting what they are owed after sticking it out through the tougher times. We are playing a confident and controlled, attacking and more importantly competent brand of football like we never have before. With Danny Hay at the helm, everything is coming up milhouse! I would hate for the dream to be over before it even began through no fault of their own. Whatever amateur side we end up with come march I suppose it'll be an awesome experience for them as players to be able to up their game and find out the new level that is expected of an all white I just hope they too buy in and are able to lift their game the same way we have seen the regular boys do over the last 6 months.
Didn't a 2nd sting u23 team go up to the islands and win pacific games under des? Did they play full national teams in that?
Yep, and even if we do have to have a full amateur team made up of national league and college soccer guys it would almost definitely be better than that Pacific Games squad. That being said that tournament wasn’t a sure thing, and they had a couple tight games. They were insignificant at the time as who really cares about the Pacific Games, but would be worrying if qualification was riding on it.
To look on the bright side, OFC gave us the competitive qualifiers we’ve been asking for, they’ve flattened the playing field, so it’ll probably end up one of the tightest qualifying campaigns we'll actually have to go through in OFC since Australia left.
It's a double edged sword. On the one hand I am chuffed that as you say suddenly we have got the most competitive qualifiers in a long, long time on our hands. On the other hand I don't know how other fans feel but I can say at least for myself since the August olympic campaign, I've really bought into this team. I believe in them. There's a sense of pride they really make me feel that has been lacking since 2010. For me this team is the depth of youngsters we have coming through the ranks. It's Joe Bell, it's Sapreet and Cacace taking Europe by storm screaming "F you if you haven't heard of New Zealand before, you've definitely heard of us now." It's long term servants of the New Zelaand game like Wood and Winston finally getting what they are owed after sticking it out through the tougher times. We are playing a confident and controlled, attacking and more importantly competent brand of football like we never have before. With Danny Hay at the helm, everything is coming up milhouse! I would hate for the dream to be over before it even began through no fault of their own. Whatever amateur side we end up with come march I suppose it'll be an awesome experience for them as players to be able to up their game and find out the new level that is expected of an all white I just hope they too buy in and are able to lift their game the same way we have seen the regular boys do over the last 6 months.
No way will it be a bunch of amateur College kids. They will all be pros
But likely to be shorn of 6-10 top players who have been recently involved. Can get the A League guys in, who will be in season, and many played under Hay at the Olympics - quell the nerves somewhat
Need likely 1 win from those first 2 pool games with under strength squad. That should happen
And who knows Burnley get on a winning run, push mid table Dyche is nice and lets loyal Woody leave a week early for Qatar. Same Singh at JR, Helsingor lads, Kirwan, Reid, Bell, Thomas, Cacace, Champness, Marinovic, Smith, MLS guys - their coaches know WC opportunities are huge in a players career. It will be that sort of uncertain, messy, week by week buildup that Hay will have to deal with. He’ll need to pick an enlarged squad always planning for the worst that first week.
If AWs had drawn the joke Tonga/Cooks pool fixture Hay wouldn’t be venting half as much.
Bit he’s quickly gone from a fist pump with OFC drawing CONCACAF, to some white fisted anger with OFC tourney setup. And fair enough. But he now needs to start smooth talking Talay, Poppa and Corica
Searle Kalua - Reid - Pijnaker - de Vries Bell Garbett - Stamenic Rogerson - Collier - Champness
This squad includes players who: - are in a league which won't have started yet (Bell, de Vries, Rogerson) - will likely be playing youth/reserve football in March (Searle, Garbett, Pijnaker, Stamenic depending on how Kobenhavn now see him) - are with Unattached FC (Reid, Kalua, Collier) - are with the first team at their club, but may be released; was extremely conservative with this, basically replicating a worst-case scenario (Stamenic, Champness)
This squad would absolutely roll any other Oceania nation at a neutral venue, and I say this with an understanding of each nation and knowledge of players they will select. Add any other professional players that we may privileged enough to be able to select - maybe a GK, or the Helsingor boys - and there should be absolutely no questions.
Searle Kalua - Reid - Pijnaker - de Vries Bell Garbett - Stamenic Rogerson - Collier - Champness
This squad includes players who: - are in a league which won't have started yet (Bell, de Vries, Rogerson) - will likely be playing youth/reserve football in March (Searle, Garbett, Pijnaker, Stamenic depending on how Kobenhavn now see him) - are with Unattached FC (Reid, Kalua, Collier) - are with the first team at their club, but may be released; was extremely conservative with this, basically replicating a worst-case scenario (Stamenic, Champness)
This squad would absolutely roll any other Oceania nation at a neutral venue, and I say this with an understanding of each nation and knowledge of players they will select. Add any other professional players that we may privileged enough to be able to select - maybe a GK, or the Helsingor boys - and there should be absolutely no questions.
Cheers MM. That's basically level of AWs side that beat Algeria 'A' by 2-1. An Algeria side you heavily suspect would be better than any of the Island teams.
I'd definitely not have young kid Searle in there as GK though. Stakes way too high for that. No relegation I can see from Dutch 2nd tier, so Almere City will freely let a fit Woud leave early. I'd go an older head like Crocombe if things were desperate. But one or more of Woud, Marinovic or Sail will be there from the start.
But I'd be less optimistic on Bell. Though he did negotiate smartly with Viking to finish his US College studies first. So when he likely signs elsewhere in the Jan window, maybe his new Championship club or whoever agree to him going to Qatar early.
Starting Line-v Algeria A Michael Woud Michael Boxall Tommy Smith Nando Pijnaker Francis De Vries Kelvin Kalua Matthew Garbett Marko Stamenic Callum McCowatt Elliot Collier Andre de Jong
I know it would take a bit of time MM, but any chance of a quick wrap of 3 Island teams AWs will face in their pool?
Fiji - can't think of anyone apart from 34 year old Roy, and he must be losing a yard of pace? Group lightweights? PNG - yipe you have David Browne from Finland's biggest club, where he has done well. Who else? Their domestic league suspended. New Caledonia - a sprinkling of players over the French lower leagues? Likely greatest threat on paper? Domestic league suspended.
The other teams we can worry about later. But with all the big guns available from the 3rd pool game (inside international window), AWs should walk it in from there. It's first 2 pool games where real nerves will likely be.
And lets not forget this tourney will be played on top quality surfaces, in airconditional stadiums, with excellent training facilities, in a part of the world Hay and his team are very familiar with now. More comparable likely to playing the OFC teams in NZ, than in the Islands. Time for calm heads
Trying to see the positives in yesterday's messy announcements, firmly believe this is a real opportunity to try and get A League boys involved with the AWs, come March.
Yeah it won't be easy, but would be some real benefits come March and longer term.
"The All Whites will play three pool games and then a semifinal and a final within a 17-day window, should they progress through to the tournament decider."
That's a lot of football in a short space of time, and you want to manage workloads on players, especially older guys, and anyone flying in long haul from USA or yes downunder. Hay needs to run a large 30-31 man squad over the tourney.
Note I'm talking about the A League players mostly being maybe in Qatar for first 2 weeks max (pool games) and then returning downunder. Some idea like that, that might work for Hay and various A League coaches. As a Chris Wood arrives in Qatar, a Barba heads back home. Ditto Bell for Lewis and so forth. With some maybe staying for whole tourney, depending on goodwill of their A League clubs.
Also I'm not sure of the exact current border rules re entering NSW & VIC (where all Kiwi contenders are based), for non Australian citizens. But Australians fully vaccinated no longer have a 2 week MIQ requirement, entering NSW. I understand Sail, Ingham & maybe Roux are Aus citizens. Hay enquired about getting the first 2 to the last window in Nov.
But by mid March, highly vaccinated NSW & VIC will be more open not less, even with new strains. They are the 2 most agressive states at the moment re borders reopening and that will continue. The momentum is all opening not closing. Good chance NZ citizen A League players will be able to freely enter NSW & VIC by then, if they can't already.
We don't want it as Nix fans, but likely better for Hay the Nix stay in NSW most of the season re border openings, as opposed to them getting back into more problematic NZ.
Barba & Rojas. Still 2 of our better attacking players. Very experienced, with a lot to still offer the AWs, on and off the field. Barba hasn't played a game under Hay. Rojas last involved Nov 2019!
Likes of Champness, McCowatt & Just, are now in the box seat seat re AWs spots. But lets say 2 of them suddenly were injured. You want as much depth as you can, plus having old heads in a squad is always highly useful. They have both played alot with the Woodsman.
They should be pumped to play with the AWs again. If they can't negoitate 2 weeks leave from the SFC or VUC, to help out their nation, given how little they have played for AWs since 2017 (through circumstance) - something is wrong. Corica & Poppa are respected coaches who will likely have their teams near the top of the A League log this season, and should be pretty job safe. Yes dangerous assumption. But I doubt they will be in desperate win mode come mid March, hugely reluctant to let anyone go off for 2 weeks to help NZ get to a WC.
Ingham, Roux, Elliot & Fenton. That AWs RB spot still wide wide open. All (even Louie) still in the mix. If Kirwan was unavailable first 2 pool games (his Padova club chasing promotion), I'd take 2 of the 4 to Qatar. Only 1 if Hay sees Payne as a strong RB option.
Sail - guy deserves a shot at becoming AWs keeper. Totally deserves a go. Has Aussie passport. Unsurped Marinovic at the Nix. Looks in real good form again to start the new season. But one of 4 quality keepers in the AWs mix, if Tzanev ever changes his anti vax stance. Only 3 go to a World Cup if AWs make it. He'll be absolutely gagging to show Hay his stuff, and impress a senior AWs group that he won't know well at all (unlike the other keepers). Doubt Talay would stop him missing 2-3 Nix games in March, that wouldn't be fair on Sail and he knows that.
Rest of Nix crew. Payne, Sutton, Mcgarry, Lewis and Waine. Ben Old. Even Rufer (especially if Bell's availability is uncertain). They all have a future with NZ football. 2 weeks further international exposure, just adds to their development. That's the way Nix should look at it. Not saying Talay should let them all go, and again hopefully Paramount/APL can rejig the draw to help both Nix and AWs. Is there a way to create 2 NIx bye weeks, latter half of March. Easier again if Nix are still in Sydney close by to the 5 NSW sides, for possible mid week fixtures, pre & post Qatar.
For Hay he gets guys in season (worry some of the Scandi/US based players especially will just be re/starting their seasons), match fit. Plus he had a number of them at the Olympics, well versed in how he sets up. Really hope Declan's not twisting him, to plump for some of those Torslanda guys as an alternative, just because they are resident in Euroland.
Hay's about to do 2 weeks NZ MIQ. Out by Christmas? In January he can visit Aus, then re enter NZ post 15th Jan, without another MIQ stretch? So he goes over to NSW with some other NZF staffers running a little 2-3 day training camp for AL AWs contenders (around yes their club commitments) finds out who's motivated, who he wants.
He returns NZ, hopefully with NZF having locked in 2 more friendlies up north for that Jan window, starting Jan 24th. Probably can't get A League guys involved in that window (A League coaches rightly should say no) but at least he's clearer to what his wider larger 30-31 man squad could be for March.
Anyway hopefully something can be worked out re the A League guys. It's an opportunity, risen out of likely necessity. But yes will need tonne of goodwill between Hay, A League coaches, NZF, APL & Paramount. NZF & Nix are likely chatting daily about Nix's new ALW's team, so the communication must be alot better than the past, ie Martin NZF era.
this isnt the best news but like many have said even our third choice AW's could handle the likes of Fiji and PNG - especially on neutral ground. As part of OFC I'm pretty sure we must have had some input into the dates for the OFC qualification tournament, NZF must have either been overruled by the other OFC nations or we agreed to it.
this isnt the best news but like many have said even our third choice AW's could handle the likes of Fiji and PNG - especially on neutral ground. As part of OFC I'm pretty sure we must have had some input into the dates for the OFC qualification tournament, NZF must have either been overruled by the other OFC nations or we agreed to it.
OFC competitions director Chris Kemp acknowledged that not everyone would be happy with the tournament format, but he believed it was the “best option” available given the circumstances.
The format was put forward by the executive committee and voted on by the 11 member associations.
“Danny is entitled to his opinion on it and we would like to say we have done everything possible to maintain a competition with sporting merit for the World Cup qualifiers,” Kemp said.
“Under the circumstances we believe that we have the best option, and that was what was agreed by our members.”
"The international window, when clubs are mandated to release players, runs from the March 21 to March 29.
OFC had applied to FIFA for an eight day extension, given the extraordinary circumstances that had been posed by Covid, which would have covered most of the tournament.
But the Herald understands their request was blocked by the European clubs, given the importance of that stage of the season, though FIFA has agreed to a one day extension, taking in the final on March 30." https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/football-all-whites-tricky-path-to-world-cup-revealed/JVDRNCCWVKZHSRPUNC5QYY6UYI/
Searle Kalua - Reid - Pijnaker - de Vries Bell Garbett - Stamenic Rogerson - Collier - Champness
This squad includes players who: - are in a league which won't have started yet (Bell, de Vries, Rogerson) - will likely be playing youth/reserve football in March (Searle, Garbett, Pijnaker, Stamenic depending on how Kobenhavn now see him) - are with Unattached FC (Reid, Kalua, Collier) - are with the first team at their club, but may be released; was extremely conservative with this, basically replicating a worst-case scenario (Stamenic, Champness)
This squad would absolutely roll any other Oceania nation at a neutral venue, and I say this with an understanding of each nation and knowledge of players they will select. Add any other professional players that we may privileged enough to be able to select - maybe a GK, or the Helsingor boys - and there should be absolutely no questions.
Cheers MM. That's basically level of AWs side that beat Algeria 'A' by 2-1. An Algeria side you heavily suspect would be better than any of the Island teams.
I'd definitely not have young kid Searle in there as GK though. Stakes way too high for that. No relegation I can see from Dutch 2nd tier, so Almere City will freely let a fit Woud leave early. I'd go an older head like Crocombe if things were desperate. But one or more of Woud, Marinovic or Sail will be there from the start.
But I'd be less optimistic on Bell. Though he did negotiate smartly with Viking to finish his US College studies first. So when he likely signs elsewhere in the Jan window, maybe his new Championship club or whoever agree to him going to Qatar early.
Starting Line-v Algeria A Michael Woud Michael Boxall Tommy Smith Nando Pijnaker Francis De Vries Kelvin Kalua Matthew Garbett Marko Stamenic Callum McCowatt Elliot Collier Andre de Jong
I know it would take a bit of time MM, but any chance of a quick wrap of 3 Island teams AWs will face in their pool?
Fiji - can't think of anyone apart from 34 year old Roy, and he must be losing a yard of pace? Group lightweights? PNG - yipe you have David Browne from Finland's biggest club, where he has done well. Who else? Their domestic league suspended. New Caledonia - a sprinkling of players over the French lower leagues? Likely greatest threat on paper? Domestic league suspended.
The other teams we can worry about later. But with all the big guns available from the 3rd pool game (inside international window), AWs should walk it in from there. It's first 2 pool games where real nerves will likely be.
And lets not forget this tourney will be played on top quality surfaces, in airconditional stadiums, with excellent training facilities, in a part of the world Hay and his team are very familiar with now. More comparable likely to playing the OFC teams in NZ, than in the Islands. Time for calm heads
All good mate! Agree r.e. GK and Bell. Here's a quick rundown of the squads we'll face
Fiji: Roy Krishna is of course far and away their best player, but yep they're likely the weakest team in the group. Their defense has the potential to contain a few foreign-based players though - a CB pairing of Scott Wara (Leek Town, ex-Stoke, pretty big raps) and Nicholas Prasad (bit-player in German 4th tier) is likely, and they'll be hoping they can convince players like Zach Verhoven (RB in Canadian Premier League, one of Atletico Ottawa's better players) and Dan Hall (CCM defender, appeared in both games this season) to bolster their squad. Their national league is in a bit of a lull right now.
PNG: David Browne and Tommy Semmy of course are the two guns to look out for - Browne wouldn't look out of place at all in a full-strength All Whites squad now. A CB pairing of the Komolong brothers is pretty formidable - Alwin spent some time as US uni before heading to the German 3rd and 4th tiers then returning to PNG, and Felix got some reps for Canterbury United in 16/17. National league's probably a little stronger than Fiji's right now - top players include Raymond Gunemba, Nigel Dabinyaba and Patrick Aisa.
New Caledonia: These guys I'm more worried about, especially if they manage to pull a few dual-nationality guys into the fray - I'm mainly talking about Koba Koindredi, the Valencia wonderkid who's begun to make a few La Liga appearances at central midfield under Bordalas. He's apparently expressed interest in representing NCL after coming through French youth teams. Other dual nationality players they could realistically call upon include our very own Jaushua Sotirio, ex-Ligue 1 stalwart Wesley Lautoa, prolific Gillingham striker Vadaine Oliver and ex-Man City debutant David Faupala. Their domestic league is probably the strongest in the Pacific alongside the Solomon Islands, and with talented local players such as Roy Kayara, Jean-Phillipe Saiko and Joesph Athale alongside their French contingent, they're definitely a potential banana skin.
So OFC wanted a longer window to have group and knock out games. But European clubs said no.
Which leaves either a shorter window with a longer tournament or a short window with a knock out competition.
Think people need to remember that all the OFC have not played a game since the Pacific Games in July 2019 and in all likelihood, won't again until the next one in Nov 2023. We've had 5, possibly 7, and an Olympic campaign. And yet people, and NZF, who pushed for a knockout tournament are expecting 7 other teams to fly halfway across the world to potentially only play one game in a 4 year cycle.
People seem very nervous by having to win one of first two games with an understrength teams against teams we've beaten with a second rate u23 team not that long ago. As far as I can tell all of our group opponents will be out of their league season come March so they aren't likely to have match fitness. We'll be playing in air conditioned stadiums on a carpet like pitch. Hardly an arduous task.
Great thanks MM. Hopefully Fiji are one of the first 2 pool games. They look/sound weak.
And pretty relaxed about PNG, when Tommy Semmy has to go down as one of their biggest threats. We should have plenty of good strong CB options, from game 1 in Qatar.
New Caledonia the unknown. I guess if Talay agrees at all to release a few Nix boys to go away to Qatar, fair enough the same with Sotiro. Imagine the angst (somewhat rightful) on here if he banged in the winning goal against an AWs team!!
Edit - at the end of the day, winning this OFC tourney, and then beating the 4th placed CONCACAF team at a neutral venue over 90-120 mins, is still maybe the world's easiest pathway to get to a 32 man World Cup. That's the important point in the overall big picture.
Sure tourney setup reeks of no favours from OFC. Hay maybe unhappy, but the gaffers at Italy & Portugal have a far far bigger gripe.
Didn't a 2nd sting u23 team go up to the islands and win pacific games under des? Did they play full national teams in that?
Yep, and even if we do have to have a full amateur team made up of national league and college soccer guys it would almost definitely be better than that Pacific Games squad. That being said that tournament wasn’t a sure thing, and they had a couple tight games. They were insignificant at the time as who really cares about the Pacific Games, but would be worrying if qualification was riding on it.
To look on the bright side, OFC gave us the competitive qualifiers we’ve been asking for, they’ve flattened the playing field, so it’ll probably end up one of the tightest qualifying campaigns we'll actually have to go through in OFC since Australia left.
It's a double edged sword. On the one hand I am chuffed that as you say suddenly we have got the most competitive qualifiers in a long, long time on our hands. On the other hand I don't know how other fans feel but I can say at least for myself since the August olympic campaign, I've really bought into this team. I believe in them. There's a sense of pride they really make me feel that has been lacking since 2010. For me this team is the depth of youngsters we have coming through the ranks. It's Joe Bell, it's Sapreet and Cacace taking Europe by storm screaming "F you if you haven't heard of New Zealand before, you've definitely heard of us now." It's long term servants of the New Zelaand game like Wood and Winston finally getting what they are owed after sticking it out through the tougher times. We are playing a confident and controlled, attacking and more importantly competent brand of football like we never have before. With Danny Hay at the helm, everything is coming up milhouse! I would hate for the dream to be over before it even began through no fault of their own. Whatever amateur side we end up with come march I suppose it'll be an awesome experience for them as players to be able to up their game and find out the new level that is expected of an all white I just hope they too buy in and are able to lift their game the same way we have seen the regular boys do over the last 6 months.
No way will it be a bunch of amateur College kids. They will all be pros
But likely to be shorn of 6-10 top players who have been recently involved. Can get the A League guys in, who will be in season, and many played under Hay at the Olympics - quell the nerves somewhat
Need likely 1 win from those first 2 pool games with under strength squad. That should happen
And who knows Burnley get on a winning run, push mid table Dyche is nice and lets loyal Woody leave a week early for Qatar. Same Singh at JR, Helsingor lads, Kirwan, Reid, Bell, Thomas, Cacace, Champness, Marinovic, Smith, MLS guys - their coaches know WC opportunities are huge in a players career. It will be that sort of uncertain, messy, week by week buildup that Hay will have to deal with. He’ll need to pick an enlarged squad always planning for the worst that first week.
If AWs had drawn the joke Tonga/Cooks pool fixture Hay wouldn’t be venting half as much.
Bit he’s quickly gone from a fist pump with OFC drawing CONCACAF, to some white fisted anger with OFC tourney setup. And fair enough. But he now needs to start smooth talking Talay, Poppa and Corica
Coaches are interested in preserving their own careers. There's no way the likes of Burnley, Regensburg, Sint-Truiden, etc, will release a starting player outside an international window.
Real good news. Brilliant even, and I like the goss NZF & Nix relations are in a good space. Thanks Nix Womens team!
Seems a great opportunity to get the A League guys involved, now with AWs. Hopefully the various parties can make it happen. Great chance now for Hay to look at a wider 30-31 man player group, Qatar in March. He'll be able to pop over to Aussie in early-mid January, and run a rule over the contenders, hold a small short camp maybe even. He has 2 weeks now in MIQ to plan it out!
Hopefully Poppa & Corica can be as helpful with likes of Rojas & Barba. I reckon they will. Uffie & the Nix sound like they will do more than do their part.
Talay would have spoken to his players about their experience with Hay at the Olympics. Would have watched the AWs of late. He was involved in Australian U17-20 age group football, he’ll definitely think a few weeks away for some of his players will all be valuable development, that Nix as a club will benefit from. Plus he knows they won’t win the League this season.
News should also motivate all the Kiwi A League guys. They could be involved with the AWs soon, with a possible huge World Cup carrot. Until now with Covid that wasn't looking so likely.
Sweet news also that a pair of AWs friendlies look likely for Jan FIFA window. Considering everything, AWs should be pretty well prepared if they make that big CONCACAF playoff match 13th-14th. Just lacking the leadup of tense qualifying matches that CONCACAF team would have had. You can't mimic that with friendlies sans fans.
It is a fluid situation and will continue to be until the end of the January transfer window, where a number of All Whites could change clubs. A more likely scenario would involve around half a typical 23-man squad being swapped in and out halfway through the tournament.
NZ Football is likely to have a useful ally in the Wellington Phoenix, the country’s only professional club, which plays in A-League Men, one of the competitions that doesn’t break for international windows. Any Phoenix players selected would therefore be set to miss a match even if the entire tournament in March was played inside the window, opening the door for a potential compromise.
Relations between the governing body and the Phoenix are said to be at an all-time high by sources on both sides and men’s team coach Ufuk Talay indicated this week he would be open to going above and beyond to help New Zealand qualify for a World Cup for a third time.
“That's a discussion that we'll have to have with New Zealand Football and also with Danny, on who he'd like to bring in. I understand it's a difficult process when there are games outside of the window and then inside of the window.
“At the end of the day we'll try to help New Zealand Football as much as we can, so they can qualify and go to a World Cup, because I think it's a great opportunity for those players to be in that spotlight and play in a World Cup. These things don't come very often, so we're trying to help them as much as they can, and we will try to make it work where it helps them and helps us at the same time.”
Talay acknowledged there “might be a trade-off” to be agreed. One possible arrangement could involve Phoenix players leaving after the team’s match against Brisbane Roar on March 12, missing the one against Newcastle Jets on March 18, but returning in time to face Perth Glory on the weekend of March 26, the match they would have missed if they only left during the window.
NZ Football chief executive Andrew Pragnell they were “taking stock” from an operational perspective now they hadn’t wound up with the format they had preferred – a series of three knockout rounds played entirely inside the March window to narrow eight teams down to one.
The All Whites are close to locking in a pair of matches against Asian opposition for the January international window. They have then been drawn with Fiji, New Caledonia, and Papua New Guinea in group B for the Oceania qualifiers for the World Cup, which will also take place in Qatar, next November and December.
International Friendly 1st February 2022 Uzbekistan vs. New Zealand Dubai
Friendly confirmed in the New Year.
Rumours we may also play DR Congo a few days before as well (TBC).
Where has this been confirmed? Would be an awesome challenge and opposition especially to blood the A League boys if true. Really thrilled the wheels are in motion behind the scenes.
International Friendly 1st February 2022 Uzbekistan vs. New Zealand Dubai
Friendly confirmed in the New Year.
Rumours we may also play DR Congo a few days before as well (TBC).
Where has this been confirmed? Would be an awesome challenge and opposition especially to blood the A League boys if true. Really thrilled the wheels are in motion behind the scenes.
Nothing on NZ Football website yet. Uzbekistan with a FIFA ranking of 84, should be a tough test if at full strength.
Their FA has them down to play Japan 22nd Jan 2022.
Doubt many if any A League guys will take part in that January window. That would be pushing the goodwill of Talay, Poppa, Corica etc. Think they won't be involved until March OFC tourney. But Hay may pop over to NSW early-mid Jan and catch up with the A League crew.
Obviously it's a crazy situation but I'm really encouraged by Woodsy getting so vocal about it early on. It would be very easy for him to sit back take his pay cheque and hop on a flight to Doha to sort it out against Tahiti in the finals come the time. But coming out and making a statement like this shows he's still got a lot of passion for All Whites football. Could signal if push comes to shove in March he might have enough chutzpah to say to Burnley something along the lines of "I've given this you guys my best over the years. A world cup. This is something I want. Let's come to an agreement."
International Friendly 1st February 2022 Uzbekistan vs. New Zealand Dubai
Friendly confirmed in the New Year.
Rumours we may also play DR Congo a few days before as well (TBC).
Where has this been confirmed? Would be an awesome challenge and opposition especially to blood the A League boys if true. Really thrilled the wheels are in motion behind the scenes.
Obviously it's a crazy situation but I'm really encouraged by Woodsy getting so vocal about it early on. It would be very easy for him to sit back take his pay cheque and hop on a flight to Doha to sort it out against Tahiti in the finals come the time. But coming out and making a statement like this shows he's still got a lot of passion for All Whites football. Could signal if push comes to shove in March he might have enough chutzpah to say to Burnley something along the lines of "I've given this you guys my best over the years. A world cup. This is something I want. Let's come to an agreement."
Big fan of the Woodsman, and he's nearly always put his hand up for AWs duty, even if it has meant long trips downunder. But think his comment that the AWs could be missing up to 16 players for first two pool games is wide of the mark. See it more in the 6-10 range.
Wood, Singh, Just, McCowatt, Champness, Thomas, Bell, Kirwan, Cacace, Reid & Marinovic, those most likely to be at risk of being unavailable.
But there is a likely relief column hopefully galloping over the hill, in the form of a bunch of A League players.
Waine, Rojas, Barba, Ben Old, Lewis, Elliott/Fenton/Ingham/Roux, Sutton/Mcgarry, Payne, Sail could all come in and do a job. You also have a few fringe AW pros around Europe (Rogerson, Wilkins, Crocombe, Niko Boxall etc) and USA (Musa, Max Mata etc)
Like Hay earlier Woody seems to be having a bit of a vent. I myself vented that OFC should just have chosen the AWs, without bothering with a qualifying tourney. AWs being only OFC team with a real shot of beating 4th placed CONCACAF team to make Qatar.
But on reflection the AWs should have a fully professional squad for the OFC tourney, if they can bring in the A League guys especially as part of a large 30-31 man squad over the potential 5 games. They will be up against a mostly amateur PNG, Fiji, New Caledonia in their pool. 3 countries that have also had to deal with Covid much more than NZ, with suspended domestic leagues, no warmup international friendlies, unlike the AWs unfamiliar with Qatar etc etc.
If Hay's AWs can't finish 1st or 2nd in the pool, and into a semifinal, based on the above they won't really deserve to be in that Intercontinental Playoff. Just don't see OFC or FIFA changing their mind now, re the OFC tourney setup.
Good news if correct as NC on paper look like toughest pool opponents and from 3rd pool game onwards (inside March FIFA window) AWs should be close to full strength.
Nothing yet on NZ Football or OFC websites to confirm this order of pool games.
There was a herald article the other day behind a pay wall talking about an African team we will be playing next. Any one know it?
A pay wall herald article confirmed the Uzbekistan fixture, that UK Allwhite mentioned, yesterday, mercifully revealing the name of the opposition in the first paragraph before the paywall despite the clickbait title. It says at the end of the article they are looking at lining up another Asian opponent for the window. Although with DR Congo also in Dubai to face off against Bahrain at the same time I suppose the smart money would be on them if it were to be am African side.
I wouldn’t put all my money on that Soccerway fixture list, it could be right but I haven’t seen any other confirmation of that order, and it could just be a case of going by that because we will play those teams in that week, and if and when it gets confirmed they’ll just update accordingly. Tribe, for example, lists the order as New Caledonia, Fiji, PNG.
I don’t think the order should matter too much, regardless of which team we play first we should be overwhelming favourites, and having players from professional environments up against amateurs, whose greatest strength (the conditions, both climate and pitch) have been taken away from them. The claims of having to field a fully amateur side was probably heat of the moment hyperbole, and the actual side would probably be at least as good, if not better than some of the qualifiers for Russia.
For example, the three games vs New Caledonia Hudson fielded:
Of those, only Thomas, Boxall, Tuiloma and Wood wouldn’t be adequately replaced/available. Those games weren’t great (1-0 win having far less possession and shots, 2-0 win and 0-0 draw), but a lot can be down to conditions in PNG/ Nouvelle Caledonie, and the fact that Hudson was pretty bad himself. On a carpet in cool-ish temperatures in Doha under Hay, I’d expect much better.
There was a herald article the other day behind a pay wall talking about an African team we will be playing next. Any one know it?
A pay wall herald article confirmed the Uzbekistan fixture, that UK Allwhite mentioned, yesterday, mercifully revealing the name of the opposition in the first paragraph before the paywall despite the clickbait title. It says at the end of the article they are looking at lining up another Asian opponent for the window. Although with DR Congo also in Dubai to face off against Bahrain at the same time I suppose the smart money would be on them if it were to be am African side.
“Confirming these fixtures was really important so we can kick off the year with games and continue to build on the momentum from the October and November matches,” coach Danny Hay said.
“These games should definitely be a good test for us and that is what we need to develop as a playing group.
“Along with potentially giving us the opportunity to include a few new players, it also gives us another chance to play in the Middle East and allows the squad to acclimatise to the conditions ahead of the OFC games in March.”
AWs v Jordan 29 January NZT AWs v Uzbekistan 2 February NZT
Will be a good test! I know some leagues aren't recognizing this window but hopefully we can get as many of the previous squads together as possible. Wonder if any of the A League guys will be available for these..
All whites footy over the longweekend. What a beauty. Absolutely loving the intent showed by NZF of late. Hopefully this is the kick off to a real cracker of a year for the All Whites that fingers crossed ends in a spot at the world cup.
Hay name-dropped Wellington Phoenix goalkeeper Oli Sail and Sydney FC forward Kosta Barbarouses as two of the A-League Men players he would like to call up in January but both are currently out injured
Uzbekistan and Jordan are two of the four highest ranked AFC teams that aren’t playing qualifiers this window, the other two are Qatar and Bahrain, who we of course just played. NZF have done a good job in getting games, considering they’ve had to condense a whole four year cycle into essentially 12 months, from Tokyo to the playoff. Adding in the Tokyo games, it’ll be 17 matches before any playoff, compared to 17 before Bahrain in 2009, 23 before Mexico in 2013 and 25 under Hudson before Peru, so reasonably comparable.
Uzbekistan finished second in their group of Saudi Arabia, Palestine, Singapore and Yemen in second round AFC qualifying, behind Saudi Arabia (who currently top a group ahead of Japan and Australia) with a record of 5-0-3, losing both games to Saudi and one to Palestine. They’ve been involved in all three windows since their qualifying finished, losing to Sweden, Jordan and Georgia, and beating Malaysia. Their squad is almost entirely made up of domestic based players, with most coming from either Pakhtakor Tashkent or Nasaf (who also employ old mate Andrija Kaludjerovic), the two teams that have qualified for next season’s ACL. There are a couple players outside of Central Asia though, namely Eldor Shomurodov, the Chris Wood of the Central Steppe, who signed for Roma from Genoa this year, Jasurbek Yakhshiboev, who became the third Uzbek UCL goal-scorer when he scored for Sheriff against Real Madrid in September, and Ibrokhimkhalil Yudolshev of Nizhny Novgorod and Oston Urunov of Ufa in the Russian Premier League.
Jordan finished third in their Second Round group of Australia, Kuwait, Nepal and Chinese Taipei, just behind Kuwait on goal difference, with four wins, two draws (both vs Kuwait) and two defeats to Australia (who won all 10 of their matches). At the 2019 Asian Cup however, both Jordan and Uzbekistan played against Australia, with Jordan managing to beat Australia 1-0, and Uzbekistan losing on penalties in the RO16 after drawing 0-0. They’ve also been busy with friendlies since qualifying finished in June, and participated in the Arab Cup in Qatar this month. In the friendlies, they’ve beaten Bahrain, Malaysia, Uzbekistan and Kosovo, and suffered defeats to Haiti and Belarus. In the Arab Cup, they upset Saudi Arabia, lost heavily to Morocco, before beating Palestine 5-1 to make the quarterfinals, losing 3-1 aet to Egypt. Their squad is almost entirely based in Jordan, with a few in Qatar, Bahrain and Malaysia. Only one member of the squad is European based, and subsequently missed the Arab Cup, and that is 24 year old Musa Al-Taamari, who plays for Leuven in the Belgian Pro League, and has also won the Cypriot league with APOEL. Jordan also have intercontinental playoff experience, as when we were getting bullied by Mexico in 2013, Jordan were also on the receiving end of 0-5 first leg home loss against Uruguay, before drawing 0-0 in Montevideo. Such is the lottery of the playoff, we could’ve had Jordan, Uruguay or Mexico.
Hay has mentioned that it’s likely we’ll see a few faces that haven’t featured in the previous two windows, and that probably refers to A League guys probably being available, but I hope it also means that he’ll look at a few different European/US guys. The March OFC tournament won’t end up with amateurs, but of the squad vs Gambia, there’s a good chance that the released players could be only: Reid (if still a free agent), Pijnaker, Bell (if still at Viking, based off being released for Olympics), Stamenic, Garbett, Kalua, Smith (no international breaks at League 2 anyway), Champness, Searle and Collier.
For those OFC games, it could be two matches in before we get access to everyone, so for any new guys, this is the last opportunity before being thrown into a must-win game. Half a dozen A League guys got experience in the system in Tokyo, and Payne and Rojas were in the pre-tournament camp in Auckland so also should be able to slot in, however for the fringe guys like Musa, Rogerson, Billingsley etc they would need integration. A possible bolter in January and early March, especially if the A League guys have trouble getting over, is Alex Grieve who’s joined St Mirren in the Scottish Premier League after scoring 21 goals for Birkenhead this year, winning Northern League Player of the Year. He’s worked with Hay before the Olympics, and with Kalua we’ve seen that Hay is not averse to calling up guys who’ve performed at that level who are over in Europe at the moment. As great as Chris Wood is, he’s played every minute we’ve seen under Hay in the last six months, so we need someone to deputise effectively.
Uzbekistan and Jordan are two of the four highest ranked AFC teams that aren’t playing qualifiers this window, the other two are Qatar and Bahrain, who we of course just played. NZF have done a good job in getting games, considering they’ve had to condense a whole four year cycle into essentially 12 months, from Tokyo to the playoff. Adding in the Tokyo games, it’ll be 17 matches before any playoff, compared to 17 before Bahrain in 2009, 23 before Mexico in 2013 and 25 under Hudson before Peru, so reasonably comparable.
Uzbekistan finished second in their group of Saudi Arabia, Palestine, Singapore and Yemen in second round AFC qualifying, behind Saudi Arabia (who currently top a group ahead of Japan and Australia) with a record of 5-0-3, losing both games to Saudi and one to Palestine. They’ve been involved in all three windows since their qualifying finished, losing to Sweden, Jordan and Georgia, and beating Malaysia. Their squad is almost entirely made up of domestic based players, with most coming from either Pakhtakor Tashkent or Nasaf (who also employ old mate Andrija Kaludjerovic), the two teams that have qualified for next season’s ACL. There are a couple players outside of Central Asia though, namely Eldor Shomurodov, the Chris Wood of the Central Steppe, who signed for Roma from Genoa this year, Jasurbek Yakhshiboev, who became the third Uzbek UCL goal-scorer when he scored for Sheriff against Real Madrid in September, and Ibrokhimkhalil Yudolshev of Nizhny Novgorod and Oston Urunov of Ufa in the Russian Premier League.
Jordan finished third in their Second Round group of Australia, Kuwait, Nepal and Chinese Taipei, just behind Kuwait on goal difference, with four wins, two draws (both vs Kuwait) and two defeats to Australia (who won all 10 of their matches). At the 2019 Asian Cup however, both Jordan and Uzbekistan played against Australia, with Jordan managing to beat Australia 1-0, and Uzbekistan losing on penalties in the RO16 after drawing 0-0. They’ve also been busy with friendlies since qualifying finished in June, and participated in the Arab Cup in Qatar this month. In the friendlies, they’ve beaten Bahrain, Malaysia, Uzbekistan and Kosovo, and suffered defeats to Haiti and Belarus. In the Arab Cup, they upset Saudi Arabia, lost heavily to Morocco, before beating Palestine 5-1 to make the quarterfinals, losing 3-1 aet to Egypt. Their squad is almost entirely based in Jordan, with a few in Qatar, Bahrain and Malaysia. Only one member of the squad is European based, and subsequently missed the Arab Cup, and that is 24 year old Musa Al-Taamari, who plays for Leuven in the Belgian Pro League, and has also won the Cypriot league with APOEL. Jordan also have intercontinental playoff experience, as when we were getting bullied by Mexico in 2013, Jordan were also on the receiving end of 0-5 first leg home loss against Uruguay, before drawing 0-0 in Montevideo. Such is the lottery of the playoff, we could’ve had Jordan, Uruguay or Mexico.
Hay has mentioned that it’s likely we’ll see a few faces that haven’t featured in the previous two windows, and that probably refers to A League guys probably being available, but I hope it also means that he’ll look at a few different European/US guys. The March OFC tournament won’t end up with amateurs, but of the squad vs Gambia, there’s a good chance that the released players could be only: Reid (if still a free agent), Pijnaker, Bell (if still at Viking, based off being released for Olympics), Stamenic, Garbett, Kalua, Smith (no international breaks at League 2 anyway), Champness, Searle and Collier.
For those OFC games, it could be two matches in before we get access to everyone, so for any new guys, this is the last opportunity before being thrown into a must-win game. Half a dozen A League guys got experience in the system in Tokyo, and Payne and Rojas were in the pre-tournament camp in Auckland so also should be able to slot in, however for the fringe guys like Musa, Rogerson, Billingsley etc they would need integration. A possible bolter in January and early March, especially if the A League guys have trouble getting over, is Alex Grieve who’s joined St Mirren in the Scottish Premier League after scoring 21 goals for Birkenhead this year, winning Northern League Player of the Year. He’s worked with Hay before the Olympics, and with Kalua we’ve seen that Hay is not averse to calling up guys who’ve performed at that level who are over in Europe at the moment. As great as Chris Wood is, he’s played every minute we’ve seen under Hay in the last six months, so we need someone to deputise effectively.
Awesome summary and yeah will be a good hit out for the team. I wonder if NZF and the Nix will come to an agreement that we don’t select the Nix AWS for Jan on the condition they’re available for those outside of window games in March? Might be a good trade off.
Although tbh I’m not across the rules in AUS for non Australian citizens entering the country without MIQ so they could be unavailable in Jan in any case?
Alex Greive definitely worth some consideration, especially if it is difficult getting A League guys like Waine, Barba etc to the UAE in Jan. You also have likes of Logan Rogerson & Max Mata floating around up north.
It does make some sense Hay bringing in some new guys in January, who he may also have to call up for the first 2 games of the March OFC tourney. Though he's talking about trying for a full strength squad in January.
Uzbekistan and Jordan are two of the four highest ranked AFC teams that aren’t playing qualifiers this window, the other two are Qatar and Bahrain, who we of course just played. NZF have done a good job in getting games, considering they’ve had to condense a whole four year cycle into essentially 12 months, from Tokyo to the playoff. Adding in the Tokyo games, it’ll be 17 matches before any playoff, compared to 17 before Bahrain in 2009, 23 before Mexico in 2013 and 25 under Hudson before Peru, so reasonably comparable.
Uzbekistan finished second in their group of Saudi Arabia, Palestine, Singapore and Yemen in second round AFC qualifying, behind Saudi Arabia (who currently top a group ahead of Japan and Australia) with a record of 5-0-3, losing both games to Saudi and one to Palestine. They’ve been involved in all three windows since their qualifying finished, losing to Sweden, Jordan and Georgia, and beating Malaysia. Their squad is almost entirely made up of domestic based players, with most coming from either Pakhtakor Tashkent or Nasaf (who also employ old mate Andrija Kaludjerovic), the two teams that have qualified for next season’s ACL. There are a couple players outside of Central Asia though, namely Eldor Shomurodov, the Chris Wood of the Central Steppe, who signed for Roma from Genoa this year, Jasurbek Yakhshiboev, who became the third Uzbek UCL goal-scorer when he scored for Sheriff against Real Madrid in September, and Ibrokhimkhalil Yudolshev of Nizhny Novgorod and Oston Urunov of Ufa in the Russian Premier League.
Jordan finished third in their Second Round group of Australia, Kuwait, Nepal and Chinese Taipei, just behind Kuwait on goal difference, with four wins, two draws (both vs Kuwait) and two defeats to Australia (who won all 10 of their matches). At the 2019 Asian Cup however, both Jordan and Uzbekistan played against Australia, with Jordan managing to beat Australia 1-0, and Uzbekistan losing on penalties in the RO16 after drawing 0-0. They’ve also been busy with friendlies since qualifying finished in June, and participated in the Arab Cup in Qatar this month. In the friendlies, they’ve beaten Bahrain, Malaysia, Uzbekistan and Kosovo, and suffered defeats to Haiti and Belarus. In the Arab Cup, they upset Saudi Arabia, lost heavily to Morocco, before beating Palestine 5-1 to make the quarterfinals, losing 3-1 aet to Egypt. Their squad is almost entirely based in Jordan, with a few in Qatar, Bahrain and Malaysia. Only one member of the squad is European based, and subsequently missed the Arab Cup, and that is 24 year old Musa Al-Taamari, who plays for Leuven in the Belgian Pro League, and has also won the Cypriot league with APOEL. Jordan also have intercontinental playoff experience, as when we were getting bullied by Mexico in 2013, Jordan were also on the receiving end of 0-5 first leg home loss against Uruguay, before drawing 0-0 in Montevideo. Such is the lottery of the playoff, we could’ve had Jordan, Uruguay or Mexico.
Hay has mentioned that it’s likely we’ll see a few faces that haven’t featured in the previous two windows, and that probably refers to A League guys probably being available, but I hope it also means that he’ll look at a few different European/US guys. The March OFC tournament won’t end up with amateurs, but of the squad vs Gambia, there’s a good chance that the released players could be only: Reid (if still a free agent), Pijnaker, Bell (if still at Viking, based off being released for Olympics), Stamenic, Garbett, Kalua, Smith (no international breaks at League 2 anyway), Champness, Searle and Collier.
For those OFC games, it could be two matches in before we get access to everyone, so for any new guys, this is the last opportunity before being thrown into a must-win game. Half a dozen A League guys got experience in the system in Tokyo, and Payne and Rojas were in the pre-tournament camp in Auckland so also should be able to slot in, however for the fringe guys like Musa, Rogerson, Billingsley etc they would need integration. A possible bolter in January and early March, especially if the A League guys have trouble getting over, is Alex Grieve who’s joined St Mirren in the Scottish Premier League after scoring 21 goals for Birkenhead this year, winning Northern League Player of the Year. He’s worked with Hay before the Olympics, and with Kalua we’ve seen that Hay is not averse to calling up guys who’ve performed at that level who are over in Europe at the moment. As great as Chris Wood is, he’s played every minute we’ve seen under Hay in the last six months, so we need someone to deputise effectively.
Awesome summary and yeah will be a good hit out for the team. I wonder if NZF and the Nix will come to an agreement that we don’t select the Nix AWS for Jan on the condition they’re available for those outside of window games in March? Might be a good trade off.
Although tbh I’m not across the rules in AUS for non Australian citizens entering the country without MIQ so they could be unavailable in Jan in any case?
Each state is different, but I think vaccinated non Australians can enter NSW. Also Oli Sail is an Aussie citizen anyway. Same Dane Ingham I understand. Storm Roux maybe another.
Sorry if this has already been posted but definitely worth a listen if you are just doing your chores around the house or what have you. A real treat to have this in depth and well informed discussion of where things stand for the All whites heading into next year. Some great and exciting measured analysis.
