Ryan Nelsen to coach all whites?

Well it's poor journalism, but I still think it's a valid debate to have. Hopefully once everyone realises that the sky hasn't fallen in as a result of one game this question will be asked a bit more seriously.

Tactically, the All Whites and the Phoenix obviously need very different approaches at different times. Perhaps one of the downsides of Ricki's two jobs is that he gets used to the fairly one-dimensional approach that suffices for the Nix. If you think about a small league with teams that are largely at a similar level, and then compare that to having to play nations ranked 20, 50 and 100 within a few months, you could see how Ricki might struggle to shift his tactics. 

Although the debate re coaching club and country has already been done to death. 

Both Fairfax and NZ Herald have a core of good journalists* but they need dedicated football reporters to devote themselves to the game and implement clever writing.

*actually I struggle to find any these days.

Ha, I see what you did there. The real problem is that the journalists have a one-dimensional approach, write very defensively, and are too distracted by their multiple roles. We're never going to get the most out of NZ's young reading talent with writers so ill-equipped to nurture their talents.

Sack Fairfax

I've heard from a good source that it's actually Paul Thompson who writes Billy Harris' articles.

I personally do feel Ricki needs to pick one role and do it. 

The fact he is going to the Olympics is quite rediculous and we are hearing they might play 343 as well??? Are you serious.

Ricki should be with the Nix at the moment, either scouting out potential players or running preseason like I assume the rest of the league coaches would be

I'm not the biggest Ricki guy, but he is a good manager.  Sacking him now would be unjustified.  It would also be writing off the whole campaign for Brazil.  (Either by saying that there's no chance, or by taking Danny Hay's version and pretending that the AWs have already qualified.)  At the end of the Brazil campaign - at the cup, or falling short - is the right time to take stock.

For me, the main question will be one of transition.  Can RH lead the All Whites to Russia?  Have the younger crop of players - those who are young enough to compete for 2018 - been properly developed?

Hypocrisy much? At least be consistent in your lowest-common-denominator opinions Danny.

FYI - despite everything we are actually still progressing through the Oceania stage of 2014 World Cup qualifying.

That's not hypocrisy, it's a change of mind.  You could more effectively attack Hay by dressing him up as Brutus.

In February he says that NZF made the right call by taking the long term view and he sets his own criteria that "assuming we progress through the Oceania stage of 2014 World Cup qualifying, it would be counter-productive to bring in someone new".

In June he decides that Herbert has "been given a mandate of carte blanche, a reign of zero accountability for too long" and that "you're only as good as your last game".

So which one is it Danny? Imagine trying to work for a c**t like that! Basically , he's just a bottom-feeding troll who writes whatever shit he thinks will keep his Sunday News gig going.

While I don't agree with everything Worthington said in his article, he does raise a fair point about Ricki not being able to focus on both jobs properly. Coaches like Ange P are currently completely focused on next seasons A-League, and searching for players to import. Ricki has a much shorter period of time before the season starts to focus on the Nix, and I can only see that being a bad thing for the Phoenix.

We all know Danny Hay has his anti Ricki agenda,  so expected as much when the loss went to press.

However very suprised he didn`t gush accolades about the peformance of his young prodigy Tim Payne

Young and raw but a very good ticka

As for Ryan Nelsen, a long way from taking over the reins if ever

He would never turn up to training. 

If Ricki weren't coaching the AWs, then NZF would have to find a full-time coach's salary. Simple as that. The Nix subsidize NZF in that regard.

Why, in all these scapegoating articles, have none of the players been blamed? No Tommy Smith as an inexperienced captain, Shane Smeltz missing headers, Kosta and Marco being monstered by large Islanders? Answer: because Ricki Herbert has made enemies and that's all it boils down to.

Ricki is only contracted to coach the Nix for this upcoming season.

I quite agree.

Danny Hay wrote that "Playing a back three without the leadership of Ryan Nelsen, or the athleticism of Winston Reid was a catastrophic error" without even bothering to explore why those guys weren't available in the first place.

Tony Smith puts forward Ryan Nelsen's name as a potential All Whites coach. He says that Nelsen "is an experienced captain and respected leader" but without noting that Nelsen showed absolutely ZERO leadership at the Oceania Nations Cup by not showing up.

Sam Worthington even goes as far as to throw in the old "those who were there in South Africa give Ryan Nelsen the credit for steering the ship" but without following through to the obvious question "so why wasn't he in Honiara?".

The only reporter I've seen get close to touching on the subject yet is Michael Brown and even he really leaves it for Herbert to say:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/soccer-football/news/article.cfm?c_id=86&objectid=10811996

I still want to know what is going to be done to implement clever tactics.

Presuming Sam Worthington is correct in his observations here: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/7076137/Ricki-its-time-to-decide-which-hat-it-will-be

If one had to choose one: Where would you rather Ricki reside? Phoenix or All Whites?

 Presuming Sam Worthington is correct in his observation that I have to amputate a limb, if one had to choose one: Which limb would you rather lose? Arm or leg?

Id say he should stay with the AWs. And then continue as an advisor to NZF.

Otherwise cut all ties and be solely our Nix coach. Its not fair on the teams and other coaches to be coaching both

What other coaches?

This is where all these opinions fall apart.  Apart from the standard Tony Smith Nelsen advocacy not one article has proposed an alternative, let alone a viable one.

It should also be noted that IF Ricki is involved with the Olympic squad it's not his call.  People are asking him to rather than him saying he wants to be.

I'm sure the nix could find capable coaches with A-League experience keen to take the job. I think the National position would be harder to fill with the number of games the team gets per year, but the other island nations seem to recruit decent coaches

We can't afford a specialised coach that's above Ricki's level. At least I don't think we can.

Are people suggesting we blow what's left of the WC 2010 windfall on one?

I blame "Raul Blanco" for everthing. His technical advising just didn`t work

Poor bugger would have lost 10kg just sitting on the bench

So this off-season there were 5 coaching vacancies.  Of those, only one went to an experienced A-League head coach.  Sydney appointed Crook (Spit, spit), Heart appointed Aloisi who has no experience, Victory stole Ange, West Sydney appointed Popovic who has no experience and Brisbane promoted Vidosic.

So what you are saying is that 4 Australian clubs weren't willing to take a punt on the likes of Miron, Culina, Fwank or a list of others but we should?

What's Miron doing these days?

Working for Fox Sports

Building houses laying floors, one or the other

No I'm not saying we should be signing these guys up, but I am pointing out that there are (debatably) capable coaches out there. None of this "what coaches" crap I'm hearing. There are tons of coaches around. Your point also has shown that guys like greenacre could be just as experienced as other coaches in the league. 

As for Nelsen coaching the All Whites, would he even want it? He was going back to live in the States before Spurs picked him up. He would need to base himself here for the job, and I don't see that happening.

I wonder which option Ricki would prefer himself, if he had to choose?

Also, if we can't afford to keed Ricki as a fulltime AW coach, we certainly can't afford some fulltime foreign coach!!! 

This is what I agree with from the Herald article this afternoon. I am prepared to leave all this talk about replacement until after the qualifiers. I hope he can manage all he is doing in the menatime, and I have no doubt that losing will have given him just as big a shock and made him aware of needing to get selection and tactics right from here on in

"New Zealand Football have said his job is safe but failure to win the home-and-away qualifiers can't be tolerated (although Herbert has signalled he will step aside regardless of what happens)."

He'd better not be taking Mel's place.

Well, the reason for that is that they're not scapegoating articles, they're over-reaction articles.  If you want a scapegoating article that blames everyone but RH, write it yourself!  The fact of the matter is that Herbert is responsible for the result.  For anyone who's new, the standard model of responsibility goes like this:

The players answer to the management.  If they're not performing adequately, management can refuse to play them, or remove them from the squad.

Management answers to the owners or the association.  If they're not performing adequately, the owners or the association can remove them.

The main current in the press (and this includes good writers and bad ones) generally writes to the angle of the owners or the association.  I don't see anything particularly wrong with this, as it at least gives management the dignity of being allowed to do their job (for good or ill) without the meddling of dozens of professional kibbitzers.

All this talk about sack Ricki is just a load of blah blah!

He is not going to be sacked....he will finish his contract with NZF in 2014. He will finish his contract with the Nix at the end of next season. 

The discussion should be really about his succesors in both roles. Someone suggested that Emblen is being set up for the AW job. Please god no! Last thing we need is another conservative ex centreback schooled in the old fashioned English game. There has to be better options out there. We have a group of young talented footballers who have the skill to play a more possession based, ball on the ground type of game. Hoof ball works when you have the big bangers up front and Brown muscling up in midfield but it won't work with Weemac and co.

More urgent at the moment is the coaching succession plan at the Nix. Because at the moment there does not appear to be on. There was talk earlier in the year about Ricki scouting for an assistant coach on his UK trip. This story has now gone cold. Ideally this seasons assistant should get a year under Ricki and then move into the top job the following year. We don't have the $$$ to look internationally( it was rumoured that Van't Chip at Heart was on $750,000)

So it comes down to getting the best deal out of local and perhaps Australian talent. There are probably guys who have coached NZ underage teams who would jump at the chance..but would they be A-League standard? Personally(and this is a bit out of left field) I would look to the guy who has done really well coaching in the NZ Premiership. Under Ramon Tribulitx Akld city had a excellent year. They also played a good brand of football. It was only a one off preseason but ACity caused CCM all sorts of problems. I remember the City TW playoff game....it was as good a game off football you would ever want to see. So my pick is Tribulitex for assistant at the Nix this year and take over as full time coach the following year with TW Culcott as his assistant. 

Not so old fashioned?

Watch any of the Olympic qualifying games in Taupo did you?   NZ game revolved around hoof the ball long, either from Gleeson or any of the back 4. Little attempt to hold possession in midfield and play the ball from the back along the ground. Constantly getting the ball wide and hitting in high crosses. Emphasis on attacking from set pieces.......looked old fashioned to me!!!

Football tactics are like most things though - they go in cycles.

Playing the ball long and/or wide isn't old-fashioned, it's futuristic.

Imagine the fury at the coal face if that happened! Would definitely provide lolz.