All Whites' Dead End Road To Russia 2018

Thats - (13 qualifying rounds to go)

coochiee wrote:

Out of interest here is the CONEMBOL table after 5 qualifying games. Still a long way (qualifying rounds to go) - but Argentina currently occupy the 5th playoff spot. Bit of reality check re huge challenge of RWC 2018 qualifying for AWs!

#	Team	MP	W	D	L	F	A	D	P	Last 5 matches	H2H
1		Ecuador	5	4	1	0	11	4	+7	13	D W W W W
2		Uruguay	5	3	1	1	11	4	+7	10	D W L W W
3		Brazil	5	2	2	1	9	6	+3	8	D W D W L
4		Paraguay	5	2	2	1	5	4	+1	8	D W L D W
5		Argentina	5	2	2	1	4	4	+0	8	W W D D L
6		Chile	5	2	1	2	8	9	-1	7	L L D W W
7		Colombia	5	2	1	2	6	7	-1	7	W L D L W
8		Peru	5	1	1	3	6	11	-5	4	D L W L L
9		Bolivia	5	1	0	4	7	11	-4	3	L L W L L
10		Venezuela	5	0	1	4	6	13	-7	1	D L L L L

We would sell out Eden Park for a home game against Argentina or Brazil. Any of the other teams wouldn't get as much attention from the press or the general public here, and wouldn't command as much for international tv rights. If we got smashed in the first leg away against Ecuador or Peru or something we might not even sellout the Caketin for the home leg.

Just as an aside, I watched a couple of CONMEBOL qualifying games over the Easter weekend (Chile v Argentina and Ecuador v Paraguay). To put it simply, frightening.

Well they play alot more than twice a year. Its been 6 months since Copa America so we should expect these teams to be very good with the time on field they get and the talent they have to build a team. Also those countries have professional leagues across the continent to develop players. Imagine if our men's team had the luxury to play more games against and with better opposition over a period of time. I think we need to play the island nations more if we want to be cheap.

One hell of an away trip though.

Remember Oman, the only nation that the All Whites have beaten in the last 68 years? Well they aren't even in the top 12 AFC teams.....

Third of a way in CONMEBOL - Colombia are currently 5th, Brazil is not even in the top 5. Still a long way to go, but looks like this'll be absolute carnage, should be great watching.

Looks like Venezuela, Peru and Bolivia are gone.

From an away trip point of view, really hope Ecuador and Colombia don't end up 5th.  Would make the trip pretty pricey.

Uruguay would be good. Not hard to get to, close to nice destinations in Argentina and Brazil if staying around for a few days.

Know a guy, who knows a guy, who knows a guy with a scar. Push a package of white powderly looking stuff up your anus, and book return flights Wellywood to Medellín - and he'll shout you return flights. Good guy. Ask for a gringo named Trevor terminal Tres in Medellín, red hair face like a twisted arse.

Sorry but one look at below table, and quality of teams around that 5th spot - makes me think that all speculating about who deserves to be in AWs squad, should Hudson be coach etc etc is somewhat a waste of time. Best we can hope for the AWs being on world stage in next 6 odd years is Confederations Cup participation. That's a bit sad. Until the AWs World Cup qualification road, somehow involves Asia again very much a dead end. The Thread is aptly named.

	Team	MP	W	D	L	F	A	D	P	Last 5 matches
1		Uruguay	6	4	1	1	12	4	+8	13	WDWLW
2		Ecuador	6	4	1	1	12	7	+5	13	LDWWW
3		Argentina	6	3	2	1	6	4	+2	11	WWWDD
4		Chile	6	3	1	2	12	10	+2	10	WLLDW
5		Colombia	6	3	1	2	9	8	+1	10	WWLDL
6		Brazil	6	2	3	1	11	8	+3	9	DDWDW
7		Paraguay	6	2	3	1	7	6	+1	9	DDWLD
8		Peru	6	1	1	4	6	12	-6	4	LDLWL
9		Bolivia	6	1	0	5	7	13	-6	3	LLLWL
10	Venezuela	6	0	1	5	7	17	-10	1	LDLLL

Honestly a team like England will struggle to beat the fifth place South American team, so what chance NZ?! I guess we should just enjoy a good opponent to play against at home (which is rare enough)...assuming we qualify for the playoff of course! I think Oceania have the first leg of the tie by the way.

Australia beat that 5th place side to qualify for 2006.

However, they had a pretty decent squad and committed players (BOLD STATEMENT) I was only 11 at the time, so all I have is available research and resources. 

Anyway, I liked Hudson's plan from the beginning, but no games or anything makes it hard for his plan to come about. 

Give it time before we say we won't qualify for the World Cup (ANOTHER BOLD STATEMENT), I say, whatever happens after OFC Nations Cup then we can start talking trash. 

Australia had a very very good side when they beat Uruguay in playoffs in 2005. Unfortunately no real comparison to All Whites, not even close.

Basically the whole Socceroos first eleven back then were either at EPL clubs (Schwarzer, Kewell, Emerton, Neil, Cahill, Viduka?) or playing at first tier European clubs (Cullina, Aloisi, Grella, Wiltshire etc).

They were only knocked out by eventual winners Italy (down to 10 men), on a dodgy penalty very late in normal time. Their next opponents would have been a pretty average Ukraine (Italy won 3-0), so they had a great chance to make the semis if they got over the Italians.

That was the first World Cup Aussie had qualified for in 32 years (last being 1974) - and followed many failed playoff campaigns against likes of Iran, Argentina, Uruguay - after breezing through Oceania. 

Still FFA realising that qualifying was no given for future World Cups, smartly joined Asia. They haven't looked back, and football over here (I live in Brisbane) has a much higher profile than pre 2005. With Socceroos playing regularly at home against quality teams. Introduction of A League also big boost to the profile.

Basically Socceroos back in 2005-2006 had a first eleven all of 'Winston Reid' level players. Hardened, experienced top level EPL/European pros if no superstars.

No A League journeymen, or kids loaned out by their European clubs to sit on the bench for 4th tier team. And definitely no ASB Premiership  players!!

They also had one of the world's best gaffers in Gus Hiddink. Frank Lowry (Australia's richest man) until recently was FFA chairman, and he opened the cheque book to sign Hiddink for qualifying in 2005, and World Cup the next year.

Even after all that, and chartering their own special Qantas flight from Montevideo after game 1 to Sydney for game 2 - they only beat Uruguay on pens in the playoffs, to qualify.

That's the size of the mountain that faces Hudson & co.

Not sure if you read my last post.

I did say that they had a decent side and I never said I was comparing them to the All Whites.

I was just reflecting back that a then-Oceania side beat 5th place South American side. 

All I am saying is, wait till the end of the OFC Nations Cup. Then we can all start talking trash.

Fair call just a huge mountain and AWs will need every first choice player fit to stand even a 10% chance

Unlike 2013 when Reid missed Mexico playoffs, and had likes of Jeremy Christie trying to plug a gap

Yes, but Coochie's point was that it was more than just a 'decent' side. In fact, it was the best generation that Australia had ever produced, and not really comparable to any Oceanian side since or from before. So it's not really a good measuring yardstick.

And, why wait for the end of the OFC Nations Cup before commenting on this?

Agreed

Even Tony Lochead, both hadn't even played a game in two years. I think that was the length? Maybe longer? 

Cactus you are correct. Over here in Australia, they call that Socceroos side of 2005-2006 the 'Golden Generation'. It included 5-6 players who were regular starters for their EPL teams (forgot to also add Craig Moore from that side a regular for many years at Rangers). They were a very very good, experienced side.

Current Socceroos side is much younger side with only really Brad Smith (Liverpool) an EPL regular. A number of players at Championship sides, in Europe, Asia and even a few from the A League. Even so they should breeze through the final stage of Asian Qualifying, and at worst finish runner up in their group (their are two groups) and grab one of Asia's 4 automatic spots.

Out of interest Trent Sainsbury (now playing in China), and currently a regular in Socceroo's was not always a first choice player at Ryan Thomas's PEC Zwolle. Thomas started more than he did. AWs just don't have 11 fit players at the standard of Reid, Smith, Wood & Thomas - the Socceroos do, and some.

Stating the bleeding obvious, the Asian World Cup qualifying path is is much more likely path to WC qualification, than playoff lottery against CONEMBOL or CONCACAF sides. It's tricky decision for NZF whether to try get into to Asia or not - but if AWs are to be playing regular quality games, home and away just has to happen..

That maybe so Ryan, but unless you happy to spend the rest of your life watching the AWs play very rarely at home, and then only against the Island nations - there must be a push for NZF to at least try for some sort of Asian qualifying path.

Over here in Aussie last summer when the very successful Asian Cup, was being held - more than one local asked why wasn't NZ involved/looking to join in on the Asian action.

coochiee

Asia does not want any Oceania teams... as Ryan has been trying to say the decision needs to come from Asia and other Oceania nations something well outside the control of NZ.

Remember in all other FIFA tournaments Oceania gets a spot. 

I think the locals are aware of all the pros and cons and to repeat as Ryan says tis mostly totally outside NZ's control and reminding you Asia does not want it ...

Fair enough Mid, and I understand trying to join Asia is a complex issue with some cons, and has been debated ad nauseum elsewhere on this website, by people far smarter than me. Also not living in NZ I may have missed some statement from AFC (or FIFA) saying NZ is definitely not welcome in Asia?

I guess what I can maybe add as someone living in Aussie, the last 10 years and seeing the Socceroos play now in Asia, with regular home games that have some meaning ie not just friendlies - is that it has helped the profile of football ('wogball') here immensely, and no doubt grown the sport. I'm sure the FFA have some sort of 'metric' to even measure it!   Regular World Cup qualification also builds massive interest in football every 4 years.

So if the average NZ football supporter (and that includes the fishneks at NZF) ever want to grow the sport - they have to somehow look to Asia.    That's the big picture.  To not at least try, is just targeting continuous mediocrity. All the other tournaments (apart from Womens WC) ie age grade stuff don't even rate a 2 line mention in the Aussie papers (admittedly the Australian youth sides often miss qualifying), nor I expect most of the football world.

Don't make this an Asia-Oceania confederation discussion please. We already have a thread for that and it won't happen any time soon.

Asia don't want it. Oceania don't want it. Wont happen.

Anyway, complete disgrace that we will be playing a 2nd tier Australian team - and people wonder why our top players don't come back ffs?

NZ v Western Pride. Mmmmm mouth watering.

Another triumph of organisation and strategic planning for NZF. Is it too soon to be talking about a knighthood for Andy Martin?

Will the game against Western Pride be televised?

Lol

Surprised at potential Brisbane location (Ipswich) for training camp in preparation for PNG in June, given average temperature and humidity.

Port Moresby. Average temp 30.3C. Average relative humidity 79%

Ipswich. 21.6C and 46%

Thought either of Cairns or Townsville (each with a QLD NPL team) would have been better.

Townsville. 25.6C and 52%

Cairns. 26.0C and 61%

Hope Brisbane location is not for some Jetstar Friday Frenzy deal to the gold Coast, but then with Martin yet to secure a big new sponsor perhaps it is.

NZF got confused about geography, it's warm in Queensland right? I mean that's where everyone goes for the heat so it must be the hottest part of Australia otherwise people would go on holiday somewhere else. Actually it doesn't matter where they go, everywhere in Australia is hot, everyone knows that.

sadly, not for a single second did i think that this fixture might be an april fools joke

Two Poms making the decisions about heading into the tropics. What could go wrong? Not to worry, I'm sure the pick of 179 candidates after an extensive worldwide search (PO179CAEWS) has it all sorted.

Thanks old man. It will go nicely with our Total Plan of Football, just to make sure we are all aligned. No thinking outside the Union Jack plan. Cup of tea?

Booking a game with Western Pride should tell us that we have not learned the mistakes from Honiara or the Mexico lead up. But I think we already knew that...

I thought playing club teams was a Fred issue, maybe people are starting to realize the rot is deeeeeep at NZF.

And has been for 40 years.

Wasn't really aimed at you.

Am I the only person who thinks we will be walloped in PNG. We will make the next stage, I think we are in

that much disarry that we wont make the  playoff against who ever the south American team is.