All Whites' Dead End Road To Russia 2018

First 11 probably on average better than the team that whent undefeated in SA + bet Serbia and Hondurus. However the quality of player is mitigated seriously by the lack of leadership and experience that we had in that team.

Assuming we do get through the Oceania Qualifying, I hope we have the first leg at home. How good will it be to have one of Messi, Neymar, Suarez, James Rodriguez or Sanchez playing in NZ

Oh, that's a huge call. That side had probably the best defensive set-up any AWs team has had before or since (and unlikely to have again any time soon).

I agree.

Yeah, I was thinking of them too when I said defensive set up - Vicelich is probably still the best DM we have, and with Elliott we actually had someone who could live on the ball in the middle of the park, and also pick a good pass to get us going on the counter.

We have pretty much next to nothing there right now.

Tuiloma should be able to do the Vicelich role but there is no obvious replacement for Elliott. Obviously we will be employing different tactics next time around but we still lack someone who can control the tempo of the game from midfield. Such a rare type of player in NZ football unfortunately. Without that kind of guy its going to be difficult to keep the ball for any meaningful length of time, especially against South American opposition.

Its funny but I remember how much people were anti Elliott back then. I thought he was vital to us and wonder if he never got the credit he deserved. As you say he could live on the ball and find passes. People complained about him being slow  but he kept the ball speed up which was important.  I do see a hint of Elliott in Tuiloma, hope Tuiloma can become as important as Elliott was.

The only people I remember bagging Elliott in 2010 were those who didn't know football and were only watching because it was the WC. Every football fan I knew could see what an important part of the team he was.

But he was old and had a terrible hair cut!

I would hope and believe that Tuiloma will be better than this. And in the near future would say that Elliot only ever had a hint of Tuiloma when he played.

Besides the Myanmar game, I don't think we will see another friendly until the confederations cup.

I would hope that our new Greek kiwi is in line to sit by Bill in the middle of the park

He may be ambitious but he's really achieved 0 in his coaching career to date - what other first team gig would he get let alone international where he has the opportunity to live in an English speaking country, do nothing for 7/12th of the year and have a chance to coach at the confeds cup?  It's a dream job for him really

I am actually wondering how he would spend 5/12 of the year working?  I guess this self inflicted  under 23 bullshark may take up some time.

Yes...I have been wondering that as well. I am not being sarcastic but what does a national coach do on a daily basis when there is probably only going to be one international game in the next 6 months?  

You can only walk the dog so many times a day..LOL

As for comparing the 2010 AW's and todays team. What the 2010 team had in bucket loads was leadership. They had mentally tough guys in many key positions. These were mature guys who had plenty of experiance over long careers and could pull the team through in tight situations. Nelson obviously was immense. But other guys were leaders too.....the Godfather, Elliot, Smeltz. Even Bertos and Locky were experianced guys. What they lacked in natural skill they made with guts and grit. They were all physically tough as well

The current team..IMO is lacking leadership. Reid is a very good player but has a quiet personality. They just don't have old experianced heads in key positions. Plus physically lots of them have the physique of a sardine. 

I'm not saying the present team couldn't be good but they will need to play a different style. To get to that point they would need lots of time together with plenty of tough games to meld them into a proper team. Unfortunately I can't see Hudson getting the hands on time with these guys to do what he wants to do.

Always had leadership qualities.  Even as a youngster at the Confeds cup. I think it was Bobby Clarke who helped him get to the US on a football scholarship. He was made Blackburns captain within 3 weeks of arriving from having played in the MLS. Quite a feat to do that in the EPL.

I think Tuiloma is similar in a way which hopefully will be good for us in years to come. I remember Tuiloma when he was 12 playing for WYNRs against a team I coached, he had a calm authority about him even then. Polite kid too.

According to Hudson:

Hudson is placing an emphasis on getting quality preparation and games in the build-up to the World Cup, with camps in Europe a distinct possibility.

"We have to get a game where it's convenient, not just for the players but for the players' clubs. If we can try get a win-win there where we can get all our best players available that's something that will be very positive for us and is something we're strongly looking at."

Although games in Europe are a tasty proposition, Hudson is assertive that the national squad will be playing international friendlies in every FIFA window, regardless of location.

"We're never going to have a window without a game, every window we've got games planned. We want games but we don't want it at the expense of correct preparation - we need quality preparation and games, it's just about getting the right balance."

Overall I think the current crop of All Whites are technically superior to the 2010 vintage squad (thinking of Plodder, Mulligan, Bertos, Lochhead, Boyens, Barron, Sigmund, Bannatyne)

Tzimopoulos and Tuiloma will potentially form a central midfield at least as good as 2010.

Wood, McGlinchey, Reid and Smith are now much more experienced than they were in 2010 when they were just beginning their All Whites careers.

Having watched most of the games in the recent Copa America, it seems there has been a levelling out in standard with anybody capable of beating anyone.

Venezuela (traditionally the weakest team in CONMEBOL) beat Colombia in the group stage and were  very unlucky not to make the quarters.

Peru was one of the better sides and made the semis, were unlucky to lose to host Chile and finished third.

Bolivia were not a bad side either and their only loss in the group stage was to hosts Chile.

Brazil were rubbish and deserved to go out to Paraguay in the quarters. No Brazil player scored more than one goal in the tournament (only five Brazil players scored - one goal each).

Uruguay and Colombia only made the quarters as the two best third placed teams in group play.

Argentina struggled to score before turning it on and scoring six against Paraguay in the semis - they scored only four goals in their three group games and their quarter-final (even beating Jamaica only 1 - 0).

To give some idea of the relative strength of COMEBOL and CONCACAF, guest side Mexico finished bottom of their group beneath Chile, Bolivia and Ecuador; Jamaica were bottom of their group.

Copa America rankings:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Copa_Am%C3%A9rica#Tournament_ranking

1. Chile

2. Argentina

3. Peru

4. Paraguay

5. Brazil

6. Colombia

7. Uruguay

8. Bolivia

9. Venezuela

10. Ecuador

11. Mexico

12. Jamaica

A) Bad for Phoenix.

B) I'll believe it when I see it.

Yes its better for the nix in that we don't loose many players, but every single window menas we lose squad members more frequently. You'd have to think that Hudson will be calling up Moss at least and perhaps Dura from now on. He's seen the youngsters now he needs to prepare the main squad.

Depends on if the Box finds his mojo in SA I guess. You need CB cover in the squad in case Reid or Smith get injured / put their clubs ahead of their team.

The squads used in the cops america were very old a lot of the side Argentina, Paraguay, Ururguay, Colombia, Brazil, Chile over half these squads would be over 30 for Russia. This may be where our advantage lies. Obviously we don't have much depth and will be forced to field the same sort of team over the next 3 years assuming all are available for selection so the chopping and changing should be limited and another benefit is we could be looking at an experienced first XI but also a youthful one. My Pick for a best possible XI in 4 odd years at this point would be (age in brackets at time of the cup) Wood (26), Barba(28), Thomas(23), Rojas(26), Tuiloma (23), Boyd(23) Smith (28), Reid(29), Fitzgerald(29), Roux (25), Gleeson (27) Extras: Fenton (25), Themi (32), Boxal (29), Musa(26), Howieson (23), Payne (24). All these guys imo are capable of playing at a decent club level by 2018 many are already doing so. It will be tough no doubt about it but a favourable draw and avoiding Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguy and Colombia may just see us flop into the WC

Is Paraguay that scary?

Anyone from CONMEBOL is scary. I honestly can't see us getting anything out of it, regardless who we end up playing.

I think it's extremely optimistic to think that the fact that those teams have older squads now means that there aren't plenty of quality younger ones waiting for a chance. Sure we might have a more settled team but CONMEBOL qualifying is a league format and each team plays 18 games in it. If we play, say Paraguay, then they would have reasonably recently played home and away against Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Chile and Uruguay in competitive matches. That's a pretty massive advantage in terms of time playing together in tough games already.

Sure, we might sneak a score-draw away and then park the bus for the clean sheet at home or something, but the odds of us getting past any of those teams over 2 legs are very, very slim (assuming we even get out of OFC qualifying).

good info!

...so, 2022's the new 2010?
Boxy the new Ivan, and Tommy Smith the new Ryan Nelsen??

That makes Chris Wood Rory Fallon!

We should start saving now!

Don't forget our AW need to win our group stage first. Don't write off our dear friends Vanuatu or Fiji. 

At this rate (see thread of ineligibility) we won't even get to take the field. For two years! (Length of suspension from all comps given by Fifa to Mexico for systemic fielding of ineligible age group & senior players)

If that happens what a spectacle Uruguay or Colombia playing in Suva will be.

Think of the money we will save if we get a 2 year FIFA ban. No need to pay coaches salaries, no expensive travel. Think of the money that could be poured back into grass roots football......sorry, trying to see something positive in all this

Hahaha! Best post yet! We'll be the Albania/Nth Korea of the Sth Pacific. Deserved. Think of the childrdrn.

the difference is those countries get to play

Oh well Nth island v Sth. Wot's not to like?

and we won't be bothering Tommy Smith for a couple of years as he singlehandedly lifts Ipswich to the EPL. Could still play Micronesia on the weekends if we can drum up some New Zealanders (in the broader NZF understanding circa 2014) on the islands of Truk or Yap

Feeling totes ace and positivo about this, going to be great

I have just realised something awesome - Appiah is ineligible for Australia - but he would have been if he had stayed in Australia until his birthday in May - I take it he had no idea he was burying his chances with the socceroos by joining the Phoenix (unless I have got something wrong and then no one cares about it)