All Whites v Greece | Saturday 18th November | 6:00am NZT | OPAP Arena, Athens

Marto

imanixsupporter

It feels like we are getting worse every game. There is no obvious progress.

I'm quite mad that Woud has started the last two games. It borders on professional negligence when you have a Crocombe available.

I'm in no way defending Baz but we are playing a far higher calibre of team then we were two years ago. We only played one decent side before that WC loss.

Since then we have had Sweden, Australia and Greece. All top notch sides.

This is being well overlooked. What did people actually expect today? Away to a team ranked about 50 places higher than us, losing was always likely. 

For me I thought the performance was pretty mixed, we looked decent going forward in bits but at other times Wood got isolated, once he went off we couldn't make much stick with Waine and co. Defensively we were better in the second half, but got opened up too easily in certain first half spells, poor game from Woud didn't help. Got to feel if we had one of those pens awarded or found a goal it would've made it a different game. 

They're trying to play out from the back and be progressive with possession, but sometimes the options aren't there and the team familiarity is lacking. Remembering that 2026 is the end goal, these are very much building games as much as that frustrates the casual viewer. 

I think saying that a team is higher ranked and has better resources than us so of course we are going to lose is such a boring cop out. Football is a game where inferior teams are able to achieve postive results against superior teams, far more often than most sports. We should be aspiring to get at least draws against fairly middling European opposition. Ricki got good results against the likes of Serbia, Slovakia & Italy in 2010.

I would also like to add that I don't think that we should read much into us keeping it relatively tighter after we conceded the second and didn't concede any more goals. Greece would have been far less motivated to score given they had a comfortable lead and I am sure, given they have a big game in the coming days, that they would have been instructed to at least use some part of the remainder of the game as practice to sit on that lead. Not that we were a particularly good sparring partner for such a purpose.

On paper seems it was a strongest starting lineup for the Greeks. That game against Netherlands was a massive qualifier (battle for 2nd in the pool), so would have been their strongest team for sure.

Haven't watched the game yet (3am KO here in QLD), but Crocombe must be getting annoyed of being overlooked for Woud the last 2 games. He looked good for the Qatar half game, and obviously his club form is excellent. I imagine it's not just Bazeley's decision but also Jonathan Gould.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/133289426/all-whites-goalkeeper-michael-woud-caught-out-for-opener-in-20-loss-to-greece-in-athens

Greece called on six of the 11 starters from their last outing in October, a 1-0 loss to the Netherlands in qualifying for next year’s European Championship in Germany.

The choice of Woud, who has made six appearances all year for Japanese second-tier club Ventforet Kofu, over Max Crocombe, a week-in, week-out starter for Burton Albion in English League Two, for the second match in a row was curious.

Against Australia in October, it was put down to the fact that Woud, effectively the fifth-choice at that point, had been in camp since the start of that month’s international window, while Crocombe had only come in for the final few days after initially staying with his club so as not to risk losing his starting spot.

A similar situation was cited by Bazeley here, with Crocombe playing for Burton Albion in an FA Cup replay on Tuesday night before flying to Greece. “He's just joined a little bit late. We've got three good goalkeepers here. We decided to go to Michael and while he's disappointed to concede goals as we all are, I thought he played pretty well throughout the game.”

watching_from_far

Showtime nixie with all your answers your surely well on the way to becoming the next coach, get your A license please... 
Bit disrespectful to call wood a cap collector! 

A license doesn't mean you can coach...plenty of people running around that couldn't put out a set of cones. 

Don't get me wrong there's no doubt Wood loves playing for NZ but you can't play at 50% with no recent football behind you when you have fully fit people in the squad....that's actually disrespectful if you want to bring up respect, any pro knows that, its a selfish approach, you may not like that but that is true. You see players from all nations dropping out when they are not fully fit. It was a cap collecting exercise today. Fully fit players should've stated.

people saying the judgement should come in 2026? that's poor, it should be every bloody game!!!! what kind of nation of supporters are we!!! Who cares about 2026 i want to win every game!!!! geesus. Its ok to lose now? and dish up rubbish every time? every coach that loses says we are on a "journey"....do one over it.

Plenty will come at me but I'm fuming at NZF and how this squad is operating. 

Edit - disclaimer as always need to be careful not to treat such rumours as gospel.

Hearing from inside the camp .. @NZ_Football
“This one’s been like a holiday, literally, golf course & casino .. virtually no meetings”.
That’s y(our) All Whites people.
Any surprise?
We played like we couldn’t give a f%*k.

— Martin Devlin (@martindevlinnz) November 17, 2023

coochiee

https://twitter.com/martindevlinnz/status/1725654895976673773

Wow. Wonder if it will be possible for any of the journos to ask NZF about this alleged comment. 

I must say the coaching staff looked very much like passive onlookers from what we could see on the broadcast. Not many attempts at in game communication/coaching visible. Was also surprising to see in Aus vs NZ highlights played at half time, that at the fulltime whistle Arnold was shown standing in his technical area and it eventually panned to show Bazeley sitting in what looked to be the stands, Arnold had to walk over to shake hands with him. Bizarre look. 

Maybe that’s an attempt to build the team. Hasn’t worked so far. 

Perhaps it’s partly the new back line being unfamiliar. 

Yeh- Champness is not a really good player, but he’s lively which could not be said for anyone else in the squad. He should be marginal getting in the squad. Guys like Rogerson and others should push him out. On today’s evidence we should be begging Kosta and Marco to come back. Ryan Thomas standing nearby and casting his shadow on the pitch might help. 

The imbalance in the starting line up is the selectors fault. Who’s that? 
They talked about isolated one up top not working and then did f all to get anyone else in the box. Is it a plan not to hold the ball or they just couldn’t play the game they wanted against a well coached defensive side?

On the other hand, we know all these guys can play football and are classy players. Maybe ditch the casino for some 500 in house with a cup of tea or something? And an honest chat about wtf we can do better? 

We put zero pressure on the Greek team and looked cohesive about once. 
We need more players running at the opposition, more players in the box when the ball is, more proven goal scorers starting and we need our team sharp and ready to play at kick off. With a clear feasible game plan. 

If it's true the AWs didn't take the game that seriously in the buildup (based off a Devlin tweet only), sounds like neither did the Greeks. Coach Poyet saying they struggled to get motivated. Their eyes understandably on the big French game.
https://youtu.be/TjCcP3CvbyA

Hopefully for the AWs it's similar and it's about Ireland in Dublin with an actual crowd. Maybe that's why Boxall was rested for this match. Singh & Wood should be better for the run.

https://www.friendsoffootballnz.com/2023/11/18/greece-manager-gus-poyet-after-win-against-all-whites-it-was-a-difficult-game/

https://www.friendsoffootballnz.com/2023/11/18/upbeat-darren-bazeley-takes-positives-from-all-whites-loss-to-greece/

NZF really is a shambles isn't it.

You have Jitka given a 6 (6!) year contract. Why? Why'd she deserve that? And no matter how bad her results (Norway excluded) there is no pressure put on her to improve. No possibility of her getting the sack. The women's team has also been described (I admit to not knowing how accurate this is) as a girls trip environment, with them all being happy to hang out and have a nice time with friends rather than seeing it as a place to work hard and do their best to improve and perform. 

Now we have similar comments coming out about the men's environment. And Bazeley too was given a 3+ year contract despite having done nothing previously to justify such a contract. He will lead us at the World Cup no matter how badly NZ plays as we only need to get past Island nations to get there. He should have been given 18 months and needed to prove he deserves that, and if his results were poor NZF could say thank you and goodluck and get someone else without having to pay out his contract. But NZF doesn't care about results and there are no incentives to succeed or penalties for failure. 

This is not a high performance environment. This is a jobs for the boys and jobs for the girls environment. Something needs to change. 

Edit: and after that game Bazeley is "upbeat" and talking about a lot of positives. Lord give me strength

I would normally say dare to dream....but they've turned into nightmares. Ireland will give us a chance with understrength team. Get Grieve on...some life up top

selections will always be subjective and come down to opinions

for me, the problem is entirely with the way this team is prepared. so many basic structural principles are missing. what is the plan for winning the ball? where and how do we want this to happen? what's our first intention when we gain possession? what's the plan for chance creation? etc etc. 

it's just slow paced, poorly played out, generic dross

remember too that these players all play in pro enivironments, for teams that have proper playing systems. it's not like the players aren't capable of fitting in to a well thought out plan

coochiee

Edit - disclaimer as always need to be careful not to treat such rumours as gospel.

Hearing from inside the camp .. @NZ_Football
“This one’s been like a holiday, literally, golf course & casino .. virtually no meetings”.
That’s y(our) All Whites people.
Any surprise?
We played like we couldn’t give a f%*k.

— Martin Devlin (@martindevlinnz) November 17, 2023

I wouldn't trust a thing Martin Devlin says. See the absolute crap he made up about the Phoenix Womens game crowd noise the other week

not to disagree with your broader points but I think selection really does matter. We may have general squad depth but we don't have high quality first xi depth. We need to play our absolute best side to have much chance of getting results against decent teams, it's as simple as that

reg22

selections will always be subjective and come down to opinions

for me, the problem is entirely with the way this team is prepared. so many basic structural principles are missing. what is the plan for winning the ball? where and how do we want this to happen? what's our first intention when we gain possession? what's the plan for chance creation? etc etc. 

it's just slow paced, poorly played out, generic dross

remember too that these players all play in pro enivironments, for teams that have proper playing systems. it's not like the players aren't capable of fitting in to a well thought out plan

reg22

selections will always be subjective and come down to opinions

for me, the problem is entirely with the way this team is prepared. so many basic structural principles are missing. what is the plan for winning the ball? where and how do we want this to happen? what's our first intention when we gain possession? what's the plan for chance creation? etc etc. 

it's just slow paced, poorly played out, generic dross

remember too that these players all play in pro enivironments, for teams that have proper playing systems. it's not like the players aren't capable of fitting in to a well thought out plan

Exactly this! 

But look who's supposed to be in charge of this 'well thought out plan'... Its the same guy who lets the players have a greater influence over setups, and who  seems incongruous to the whole idea of football management. He does cut a pretty forlorn figure in the dugout, when we routinely see other managers yelling out tactics and instructing/corralling their teams on a regular basis. Look over at Bazeley and it's 🦗...

For what it's worth, I didnt have particularly high expectations this morning, and for the most part the match pretty much ran how I expected - 

I'm expecting a better showing against Ireland in a few days.  More of the same and I will have a few more questions.

Also, If I tune in and see Woud starting I'm not even going to bother watching.

I'm in Athens and there was a distinct lack of hype for this game. The manager at the bar I went to didn't even know it was on and had to be persuaded to show it.

Also disappointed to have come to Athens for the game, been told by both NZF and the Greek federation that it was a closed-door game, and then see a decent number of people watching from the stands. Not sure what happened there.

I think in any sport we all know players that are pretty decent for their club side or at domestic level but just don't do as well playing for the National side. Conversly there are people who maybe only got a call up because others were injured that can really step up and play their best when they are playing for their country.

Woud seems like the former to me. He just never plays well for the AWs and that's an issue.

bennie99

I think in any sport we all know players that are pretty decent for their club side or at domestic level but just don't do as well playing for the National side. Conversly there are people who maybe only got a call up because others were injured that can really step up and play their best when they are playing for their country.

Woud seems like the former to me. He just never plays well for the AWs and that's an issue.

Even his last club game he didn’t look convincing. He featured 3 times in the highlights, with 3 less than wonderful pieces of keeping. No good keeper highlights included. Not sure if his club will retain him going into the ACL pointy end. 
That said he seems to be a reasonable keeper with a bit of decision paralysis and a confidence slump. Was fine the rest of the game today tbh. 

At the moment I’d still rather have Crocombe, Tzanev, Marinovic and probably Sail ahead of him. Actually maybe Paulsen seeing he’s actually playing every week and is bullet with his feet. Spoonley has retired, right? 

We should see Crocombe and Boxall against Ireland right? 

How much of our inability to string passing together was the quality of their pressing? And how much was our lack of combinations and our selection and shape? 

imanixsupporter

Not sure who your source is but happy to send through our daily schedules. Plenty of meetings to work on how we can improve 👍🙏

— Sarpreet Singh (@Sarpreetsingh88) November 18, 2023

Martin 0 for 2 on the terrible football takes this week.

YoungHeartHM

imanixsupporter

Not sure who your source is but happy to send through our daily schedules. Plenty of meetings to work on how we can improve 👍🙏

— Sarpreet Singh (@Sarpreetsingh88) November 18, 2023

Martin 0 for 2 on the terrible football takes this week.

And shame on us who believed Devlin M and anything at his new home away from regular reporting standards. 

True. But someone in or around the camp in Athens, has still likely been displeased with certain aspects of the build up to the Greek game. Otherwise Devlin wouldn't have made his Tweet, he's not there in Hellas.

Now he's doubled down and said it was the camp in Spain in October... just making it up as he goes

Very specific claim, that the team or team staff went golfing & to casinos during an international camp. If true, a bit unprofessional. Would be easy for Singh or somebody else to declare it didn't happen, I hope they do but would understand them choosing not to engage any further.

imanixsupporter

Very specific claim, that the team or team staff went golfing & to casinos during an international camp. If true, a bit unprofessional. Would be easy for Singh or somebody else to declare it didn't happen, I hope they do but would understand them choosing not to engage any further.

Nothing wrong with team building a new team. Was proven ages ago you pass more to players that are your friends and so you trust a bit more. 

Maybe they’ve gone about it in the wrong way or more likely Devlin is talking bollocks. 

martinb

imanixsupporter

Very specific claim, that the team or team staff went golfing & to casinos during an international camp. If true, a bit unprofessional. Would be easy for Singh or somebody else to declare it didn't happen, I hope they do but would understand them choosing not to engage any further.

Nothing wrong with team building a new team. Was proven ages ago you pass more to players that are your friends and so you trust a bit more. 

Maybe they’ve gone about it in the wrong way or more likely Devlin is talking bollocks. 

probably a bit of both to be fair, giolfing and casino may well have happened and who cares if it has, as long as it's not been at the expense of training etc. Devlin is probably raising it as an issue as he is no longer the sports talk mogul he used to be after his massive fall from grace.

Devlin full well knows that sports teams can't do their sport 24/7 and have to have down time. I guess radio jocks must as well.

Devlin hasn't had a good take on football in his life, can we just not give any airtime to him? Hes an absolute muppet who tries to be the sports version of Mike Hosking but doesn't realize that Mark Reason does it better than he could ever hope to.

Nelfoos

Devlin hasn't had a good take on football in his life, can we just not give any airtime to him? Hes an absolute muppet who tries to be the sports version of Mike Hosking but doesn't realize that Mark Reason does it better than he could ever hope to.

is he even on air anymore?

Oi Oi Edgecumbe

Devlin full well knows that sports teams can't do their sport 24/7 and have to have down time. I guess radio jocks must as well.

Wouldn’t have been an issue if we won. Apparently enjoying yourself isn’t allowed if you lose.

we average a goal every 10 hours against sides outside of oceania so to be fair we should be on the training pitch rather than hitting golf balls.

Foolish statement, those with any knowledge of coaching at all know that you can’t/don’t train 24/7.

Showtime Nixie

we average a goal every 10 hours against sides outside of oceania so to be fair we should be on the training pitch rather than hitting golf balls.

 

imanixsupporter

not to disagree with your broader points but I think selection really does matter. We may have general squad depth but we don't have high quality first xi depth. We need to play our absolute best side to have much chance of getting results against decent teams, it's as simple as that

reg22

selections will always be subjective and come down to opinions

for me, the problem is entirely with the way this team is prepared. so many basic structural principles are missing. what is the plan for winning the ball? where and how do we want this to happen? what's our first intention when we gain possession? what's the plan for chance creation? etc etc. 

it's just slow paced, poorly played out, generic dross

remember too that these players all play in pro enivironments, for teams that have proper playing systems. it's not like the players aren't capable of fitting in to a well thought out plan

oh yeah, selection is definitely important, especially when the structures are not there

Not asking for around the clock sessions but im pretty sure beckham would ask for a bag of balls and it wouldnt be the small hard ones our boys grab. thats the difference. Whose our set piece taker? free kick taker? wouldnt know too busy raking the bunker. Should be spending hours out there practising his craft.

Wouldnt see Lukaku, Saurez and Mbappe teeing off at 1.57pm

But hey maybe we will score against ireland...maybe a couple and then some were say it was the golf!

Napier Phoenix

Foolish statement, those with any knowledge of coaching at all know that you can’t/don’t train 24/7.

Showtime Nixie

we average a goal every 10 hours against sides outside of oceania so to be fair we should be on the training pitch rather than hitting golf balls.

 

Showtime Nixie

Not asking for around the clock sessions but im pretty sure beckham would ask for a bag of balls and it wouldnt be the small hard ones our boys grab. thats the difference. Whose our set piece taker? free kick taker? wouldnt know too busy raking the bunker. Should be spending hours out there practising his craft.

Wouldnt see Lukaku, Saurez and Mbappe teeing off at 1.57pm

But hey maybe we will score against ireland...maybe a couple and then some were say it was the golf!

Napier Phoenix

Foolish statement, those with any knowledge of coaching at all know that you can’t/don’t train 24/7.

Showtime Nixie

we average a goal every 10 hours against sides outside of oceania so to be fair we should be on the training pitch rather than hitting golf balls.

 

IMG_0948.jpeg 188.98 KB

exactly my point...they're on the training pitch! Don't have an issue with cart travel to a session. Lucky Tim Payne not driving it!

Na, those days have Sailed.

Showtime Nixie

exactly my point...they're on the training pitch! Don't have an issue with cart travel to a session. Lucky Tim Payne not driving it!

Did anyone else who watched the game on DUKE (on TV) find the pic quality weird?  Like frame skipping, as though it was a bad internet feed?  Was really weird, and not expected on a SKY channel - almost like it was just redirected straight from a website...

Showtime Nixie

Not asking for around the clock sessions but im pretty sure beckham would ask for a bag of balls and it wouldnt be the small hard ones our boys grab. thats the difference. Whose our set piece taker? free kick taker? wouldnt know too busy raking the bunker. Should be spending hours out there practising his craft.

Wouldnt see Lukaku, Saurez and Mbappe teeing off at 1.57pm

But hey maybe we will score against ireland...maybe a couple and then some were say it was the golf!

Napier Phoenix

Foolish statement, those with any knowledge of coaching at all know that you can’t/don’t train 24/7.

Showtime Nixie

we average a goal every 10 hours against sides outside of oceania so to be fair we should be on the training pitch rather than hitting golf balls.

 

Feels like you just have a problem with the sport of golf tbh.

          

Greece (3rd in their pool) drew 2-2 with France in their final Euros qualifying group game. Pretty strong looking French team, though Mbappé (2-1 Greece) came off the pine.
https://us.soccerway.com/matches/2023/11/21/europe/european-championship-qualification/greece/france/3972641/

So in hindsight Greece were definitely a step up from Ireland 2nd string (10 changes from their game against Holland). The Greeks had 5 starters against the French, who also also started against the AWs.

Euros qualifying playoffs. Greeks will host Kazakhstan next April, and then play the winner of Georgia verus Luxembourg, to see who makes the Euros. They will fancy their chances.