All Whites V New Caledonia 22 March 7:35pm - Craft Bar or Four Kings

austin  - I have a horrible feeling you might be right.  Ideally you'd want a coach who creates a team flexible enough to use its twin strengths - big target man/set piece power, and the technical creative talent.  Watching rojas and wee mac last night was really sad....

 Back to the reffing - I am freakin' amazed that, while Wood was down for the foul that got the NC player a yellow card, another NC player off the ball kicked Reid in the shins and no-one noticed.

As I tried to explain to someone at the Fox, NZ tend to play to the level of the opposition. Compare Italy 2010 with NC 2013 and you'll see what I mean. That's what gives me hope that Jamaica/Honduras/whoever 2013 will be a much better spectacle than the munterball we saw last night.

I'm not totally opposed to the SACK RICKI PART 2 chants going up now from the usual suspects, but who trusts NZF to find a decent replacement between now and November?

The replacement suggested to me by someone at the Kings last night was Neil Emblen. Shudder.

I think we should be seeing if Postecoglou wants a gig for the next year and a half (and in particular the 2014 offseason), on top of his Victory job. He would surely be able to work with our plethora of attacking talent, and get a lot more out of them than Ricki has (he's already shown that he's fantastic at managing Kosta and Marco). Whether he wants the gig or not is a different story, he's almost guaranteed to be the next Socceroo coach after Holger, so it depends on whether Australia qualify for the World Cup or not as to when Holger will be sacked.

we want hiddink

Very well said, Ronaldoknow. 

I am freaking amazed that no one is making any deal about the fact that while Wood was down for the foul that got the NC player booked, Reid got a tap on the ankle and went down clutching his leg like it had been broken.  It was embarrassing.

I think it was true that if we are a team that plays to the level of the opposition, we would have played better last night.

.

Ricki celebrating like SAF made my night. Good on him.

I got this text from a rugby supporting mate after the goal:

"Herbert running around like a pork chop with his hands in the air and can't find anyone to high five him.  Hilarious."

Edit as it would not show the text content that I had tried to copy and paste.

To put things in perspective - Spain, the best team on the planet, drew with Finland ;)

Or perhaps of more relevance, Snooky had a child recently and has since lost some weight through healthy eating.

 WTF does "running around like a pork chop" mean? I don't know about your butchers' shop, but the pork chops are pretty stationery in mine.

really have no idea but it was a phrase that made me giggle

Do not for get 11 great players from 8 different teams playing in many different leagues and styles, will never make a team in 4 days. 

I guess that all the NC players play for the same club side because despite having massively inferior players to us, they looked a far more cohesive unit than we did.

perhaps " pre-pork "would be more precise

Actually good point, there was nobody out there last night willing to play the role of the robbers dog which Elliot did so well. Also agree with the rest of what you have to say Austin, in the short term anyway.

Apart from the style of play enjoyed the trip immensely, well worth the drive from ChCh and what a great venue for football! Well done Dunners, shame more of you didn't turn up but that's not likely given how we played.

Bollocks.

They are all pro's at the top of there game. It is up to the coach to deal with. RIcki was a reasonable defender in his day but as a coach he has consistently shown a lack of ability to add value to a team by putting out teams that play too there strengths, last night was a classic example. All RIcki's teams play to his strengths, when he shifts from that stance (ala mid season Phoenix) it goes pear shaped. He works to a model that is outdated and unworkable with the current squad because the players skill set has moved beyond his technical ability. Any of the squad playing in the A League or Europe are now being coached at a a greater technical level than Ricki can deliver. We saw shades of this recently when Nelsen was so regularly unavailable for the All Whites with veiled criticism of the coaching staff. Let's be real, if Ricki was such a great coach why did he lead the Phoenix to the bottom of the table? When the pressure came on from the Welnix boys he went along with the plan only to find out he couldn't do it. Move on - does VanHattum have the balls to make the call?

I have has some serious concerns for a while about our chances of qualifying for the World Cup. I just don't see it happening with Herbert in charge. Im quite worried we won't only lose the play off but get smashed as well. And if that happens football is going to lose a lot of profile in NZ.

And be careful when talking about playing the likes of Honduras and Costa Rica. The ways things are going it could very easily be USA.

Jamaica has picked up a lot of players from the UK. And the results show, a draw against Mexico in Mexico, plus they beat USA at home and only just lost to them away to a free kick. And just today Honduras Drew at home against Mexico. We are a long long way behind Mexico so god knows what will happen to us in the away leg.

We have the players to compete, but we don't play enough football and most importantly we don't have a coach who can use these players. Some of his selections and tactics is just mind boggling. I could grab one of the local under 11s coach and I reckon he could do the job just as well.

Its getting scarier and scarier

We need our previous coach back. To bad Nelsen already has a job

Search 'strebre delovski' the missed foul on Smeltz has made headlines around the world.

Not the All Whites then.

I haven't read this thread in its entirety but it does seem like there's a fair amount of arrogance here about the relative strengths of the 2 teams.Where was it ever a given that we are a better team than NC? From reading some posts here , all we had to do was turn up and a win was guaranteed. Bollocks.

I've only just calmed down about the reffing display.Allegedly he didn't see Smeltz get kicked in the swede so couldn't give anything.WTF? What were his assistants doing? Scratching their nuts all game?

ANd why are we surprised at what happened. NC came out hard , played better than a lot here thought they would , were overly aggressive and some of the AWs rolled over and took it. Ref let them get away with it by doing fuck all. NC were lucky to finish with 11 players ( other than injury) but they did. WHen they weren't going around kicking shit out of anything in white , they played OK for long periods of the game. We didn't appear to have any ability to realize and change things around a bit. A bit of mongrel a la Grant Turner wouldn't have gone amiss last night. But it really is patronising to assume we're always going to beat the other Oceanic sides.

Whatever Reid took just before his interview post game , I really really want some...

 Pity about that - on the evidence of last night, many of them could make their living in rugby.

 so how is this current allwhites team compared to that of 4 years ago. have we progressed? Are our results reflective of the talent available to us?

Good post JM.  

Ahmad and I posted similar back at page 16.

That game was down right embarrassing. It's fairly obvious RH has been travelling on the coat tails of good players with Lady Luck as his assistant coach for some time now. And that style suited the trench warfare "heros" Nelsen, Sigmund, Lochead etc. but it doesn't suit out and out talented footballers like Rojas and McGlinchey. It was a typical Herbert coached team that values passion over passing and commitment over constructive play. I was horrified to watch the number of times Paston waved away the opportunity to roll the ball out so he could welly the ball down town. Looked like all he was focused on was the halftime hit the roof competition.

Whatever he tells the players, all it does is create anxiety and dysfunction, sure sign of somebody out of their depth. And when he gets someone as good as Reid buying in to his style it just creates further problems that in the end flowed through the whole team. Brockie was average and got shown up for lack of pace more than once, Rojas went missing in action (why the fuck was the attack not built around him), Smeltz may as well have not been there because he wasn't (he should have been subbed and Killen who was one of the few playing decently pushed forward). If it wasn't for the fact we were physically dominant at set pieces and their keeper was pants we would have been a distant second on the night.

Question:

If players like Reid, McGlinchey and Rojas can be stars in good club teams what happens that turns them into bumbling muppets when they turn out for NZ?

Answer that and you'll find that is what is wrong with our national team. I've been to the last 2 home qualifiers now and witnessed 2 turgid displays. No wonder it's cheap to get in, it's only going to get cheaper as NZF continues to devalue the game by contracting Herbert as the cheapest option.

/quote]

Great post. Was about to write something similar. Tactically, Herbert is out of his depth. We know that. Should be no surprise as Nelsen ran the show tactically last campaign. Our isolation works against any home based Kiwi coach being able to compete tactically against class opposition. The Phoenix will recognise that shortly by overlooking all NZ based coach talent for their big job. I have no idea what Emblen is like as a coach, but sitting next to a failed Herbert campaign won't do anything for him. However am hopeful NZF will bring in a crashhot tactician to assist Herbert - have no idea where Blanco's gone. Just someone to help Herbert work out the jigsaw. He has no idea how to put a midfield together, and needs help to make formation decisions. Otherwise these Nth and Central American team's will end the dream before the return leg. Bahrain were nothing compared to these guys.

Some big decisions for NZF to make soon. Yes they will come up with a list of impressive warmup games thru to the playoffs, but where are the brains on the bench.

it has no merit at all - it is searching for an excuse when what we need to do is ask some actual questions about this team and its realistic ambitions

How is JD living in the past Greenie?  Are we not a bigger, better funded nation, with better players than NC?

Not sure about arrogance on forum here, but plenty at NZF and media level. We have short memories. Other Oceania nations get treated like Oz used to look down at us. Say all the right things, but deep down, no respect. This week the management and media focused on how many yellow cards certain players could pick up in the second half to clean the slate for the inter-continental playoff. All assuming of course that we would have a 2 or 3 goal lead by that stage.

When it was 1-all the TV commentators had done no homework - they could not give a definitive on the state of the group if we drew/lost - and what we would then have to do as a bare minimum with each scenario. But don't start me on TV coverage.

I thought NC were excellent going forward - and that should be no surprise. The French territories of NC and Tahiti have always been technically good, and give both oz and us some grief from way back from the late 70's. I was surprised they still haven't sorted a keeper and a defence that can keep them in the game for longer periods.

He is living in the era where island teams are crap. They aren't any more. 20s just snuck past Vanuatu 1-0

Gourdie and Piney knew the points table situation - Harry and Dewhurst hadn't??

I didnt think dew and harry were unclear. Dew mentioned we'd need a result in honiara tues if we drew/lost

Not sure NZF or media were arrogant either YC situ was rather topical. Does it imply arrogance if we do? Dont think so

Sorry if this has already been posted but anyone know what the crowd number was for the match?

Not too sure about crowd size but classic was the evils Tracey got when she started 'we should have played in welli'.

'There's only two David Bain's' to the dude in the colorful woolen jersey was a giggle (followed with 'if you think Bain is guilty clap your hands')

In case the question wasnt rhetorical:

but no one said that the island nations were crap - it was stated that we are a bigger, better funded nation, with better players than NC?  I think that it is difficult to argue with that, and that it is also a relevant point when you are discussing the game.