All Whites v Qatar | Tues 20th June | 4:00am

imanixsupporter

To be clear, it is my belief that you could use that word in an unfriendly way in the context of an argument with an opponent, and it would still not be racial abuse.

It has been reported that there were words going back and forth between Boxall and the Qatar player involved. It has also been reported that the Qatari said "watch your mouth" after the slur was alleged to have said. It is my opinion that, in the context of unfriendly words going back and forth, it is quite possible that the Qatari said "watch it, n****" in a threatening manner, and then when the All Whites kicked off he was clarifying, "watch your mouth". 

If this was the case, I do not believe that constitutes racial abuse. If a white person had said this to MB in the exact same way, that's racial abuse. But he is black and can and clearly does use that word. And it need not be said with racist intent. Black people can say that sentence and it be synonymous with "watch it, dude". 

The All Whites and MB are within their rights to consider that racial abuse and boycott the second half, but I don't think many other people around the world are going to agree with that stance. 

wow

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Gotta love football sometimes...

lthomas20

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Gotta love football sometimes...

Seven of the Qatar lineup were in the starting side against the All Whites. Qatar shaved possession with 51%, but were outshot fifteen to ten, Haiti having three shots on target to Qatar's two.

Haiti are 87th ranked in the world - the ninth highest ranked in CONCACAF - one world ranking above Curacao. They missed out on making the final eight of 2022 World Cup qualifying after losing 4-0 on aggregate to Canada. Haiti topped their First Round group ahead of Nicaragua, Belize and Turks & Caicos, scoring thirteen and conceding none; though ten were against Turks & Caicos. 

Haiti featured a couple MLS players, players at Maccabi Haifa and Hapoel Haifa, CSKA Sofia, Vitesse Arnhem, Metz in Ligue 2, in Cyprus and Canada. Possibly a reasonable comparison to the All Whites? In terms of players spread through middling leagues across the world that is.

Qatar play Honduras next and then Mexico last - Mexico currently 2-0 up against Honduras - so gets no easier. 

Wish it was us at the Gold Cup, even if we'd struggle to progress from this group. Get that OFC-CONCACAF MoU/cooperation agreement into action. 

Bullion

martinb

The other thing to look at is that there is a global movement right at this moment lead by a Real Madrid star. The head of FIFA, though probably not imagining this circumstance said games should be stopped for racist abuse. There was another game on the same day where this happened. 

Individually these actions may stun people into self reflection, but also currently they are part of a more collective move to attempt once more to draw a line in the sand. Hopefully not by VAR though. Jokes, woo. 

The hope is that come that WC qualifier, god forbid, the ref knows exactly how to handle the situation as a result of this action here and no players are forced to choose between the WC and allowing their teammates to be abused with impunity. 

IIRC though, particularly to Pasty and Smeltzy, Fiji weren’t partial to attacking players verbally…

Global movement right at this moment? 

Kick It Out has been going for 30 years. People have rightfully pointing out racism in football for decades, and there have been many examples of players getting racially abused; for instance Balotelli getting bananas thrown at him and videos of crowds making monkey noises, and an England Bulgaria game was halted twice because of racist chants. 

What world do you live in where you are oblivious to this?

Sorry- momentum or attention because of Vinicius is probably a better description. Remember the FIFA racism task force or whatever was disbanded a few years back, concluding ‘job done!’. So not completely inaccurate.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/sep/25/fifa-anti-racism-task-force-russia-2018-world-cup

And the head of FIFA said this and posted it on the FIFA website this month:

https://www.fifa.com/about-fifa/president/news/football-must-stop-when-there-is-racism

So these two games are a challenge for FIFA to match words and actions. Let Stamenic’s goal stand! Doubtful, but it was a good ‘un.

martinb

Bullion

martinb

The other thing to look at is that there is a global movement right at this moment lead by a Real Madrid star. The head of FIFA, though probably not imagining this circumstance said games should be stopped for racist abuse. There was another game on the same day where this happened. 

Individually these actions may stun people into self reflection, but also currently they are part of a more collective move to attempt once more to draw a line in the sand. Hopefully not by VAR though. Jokes, woo. 

The hope is that come that WC qualifier, god forbid, the ref knows exactly how to handle the situation as a result of this action here and no players are forced to choose between the WC and allowing their teammates to be abused with impunity. 

IIRC though, particularly to Pasty and Smeltzy, Fiji weren’t partial to attacking players verbally…

Global movement right at this moment? 

Kick It Out has been going for 30 years. People have rightfully pointing out racism in football for decades, and there have been many examples of players getting racially abused; for instance Balotelli getting bananas thrown at him and videos of crowds making monkey noises, and an England Bulgaria game was halted twice because of racist chants. 

What world do you live in where you are oblivious to this?

Sorry- momentum or attention because of Vinicius is probably a better description. Remember the FIFA racism task force or whatever was disbanded a few years back, concluding ‘job done!’. So not completely inaccurate.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/sep/25/fifa-anti-racism-task-force-russia-2018-world-cup

And the head of FIFA said this and posted it on the FIFA website this month:

https://www.fifa.com/about-fifa/president/news/football-must-stop-when-there-is-racism

So these two games are a challenge for FIFA to match words and actions. Let Stamenic’s goal stand! Doubtful, but it was a good ‘un.

Fair enough, not surprising it is FIFA with their head in the sand.

Bullion

martinb

Bullion

martinb

The other thing to look at is that there is a global movement right at this moment lead by a Real Madrid star. The head of FIFA, though probably not imagining this circumstance said games should be stopped for racist abuse. There was another game on the same day where this happened. 

Individually these actions may stun people into self reflection, but also currently they are part of a more collective move to attempt once more to draw a line in the sand. Hopefully not by VAR though. Jokes, woo. 

The hope is that come that WC qualifier, god forbid, the ref knows exactly how to handle the situation as a result of this action here and no players are forced to choose between the WC and allowing their teammates to be abused with impunity. 

IIRC though, particularly to Pasty and Smeltzy, Fiji weren’t partial to attacking players verbally…

Global movement right at this moment? 

Kick It Out has been going for 30 years. People have rightfully pointing out racism in football for decades, and there have been many examples of players getting racially abused; for instance Balotelli getting bananas thrown at him and videos of crowds making monkey noises, and an England Bulgaria game was halted twice because of racist chants. 

What world do you live in where you are oblivious to this?

Sorry- momentum or attention because of Vinicius is probably a better description. Remember the FIFA racism task force or whatever was disbanded a few years back, concluding ‘job done!’. So not completely inaccurate.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/sep/25/fifa-anti-racism-task-force-russia-2018-world-cup

And the head of FIFA said this and posted it on the FIFA website this month:

https://www.fifa.com/about-fifa/president/news/football-must-stop-when-there-is-racism

So these two games are a challenge for FIFA to match words and actions. Let Stamenic’s goal stand! Doubtful, but it was a good ‘un.

Fair enough, not surprising it is FIFA with their head in the sand.

Infantino has actually made a lot of unusually strong statements though thinking more of racism by fans:

“It’s a football-related problem and we mustn’t look for excuses like: ‘It’s society’s problem, therefore, it’s fine in football.’ In the world of football, we must act in a very forceful way."

and (again more focused on crowds)

‘The FIFA President said it was imperative that match officials stop a match when players were subject to abuse.

"There is no football if there is racism! So let’s stop the games," he said. 

All from the linked article above.

So using the word nigger in a confrotational manner, to attack someone of colour can not be seen as racist, because the person saying it is darker.

IMANIXSUPPORTER - you are entitled to your opinion, but wow, simply wow.

The one thing you get right about the above is, knowing the intent on how the word was said - as this does change the context. But we know the intent, it was not friendly banter between mates.

The problem you are having here is you are using your Western eyes to view this problem, that racism is merely a colour thing, which it is not. The caste system in India is a horrible example of discrimatory and racist ideology within a country against its own people.

Racism is born from a sense of superiority - I am better than you because I am white, or German or whatever.

The Qatar guy calling (allegedly) Boxall a n.... is him saying you are beneath me, inferior, you are nothing. He doesn't have to be lighter skinned that Boxall to think that, at that moment or in general if he holds such beliefs.

If he said in a derogatory way, it is by definition an example of racism surely.

So if you are a cod, you can call anyone else a cod?

If you are a motherfudgeer, you can call anyone else a motherfudgeer?

Napier Phoenix

So if you are a cod, you can call anyone else a cod?

If you are a motherfudgeer, you can call anyone else a motherfudgeer?

Oedipus has entered the chat

I've said more than enough on this topic. I'd just suggest everyone talks to a black person or two about it, see what they think. See how easy it is to convince them that a black person using the n-word to someone who isn't black is racial abuse.

And just for the record everyone, I'm not a trump fan, I'm not some weird neoconservative who is obsessed with the woke mind virus. Not that it matters but I'm quite left leaning. I think it'd be better if people kept such terminology and framing out of this forum and quite frankly out of NZ. A few of you sound a bit obsessed about Trump and I'd recommend you spend a little less time thinking about US politics. 

Good save 😂😂😂😂

imanixsupporter

To be clear, it is my belief that you could use that word in an unfriendly way in the context of an argument with an opponent, and it would still not be racial abuse.

It has been reported that there were words going back and forth between Boxall and the Qatar player involved. It has also been reported that the Qatari said "watch your mouth" after the slur was alleged to have said. It is my opinion that, in the context of unfriendly words going back and forth, it is quite possible that the Qatari said "watch it, n****" in a threatening manner, and then when the All Whites kicked off he was clarifying, "watch your mouth". 

If this was the case, I do not believe that constitutes racial abuse. If a white person had said this to MB in the exact same way, that's racial abuse. But he is black and can and clearly does use that word. And it need not be said with racist intent. Black people can say that sentence and it be synonymous with "watch it, dude". 

The All Whites and MB are within their rights to consider that racial abuse and boycott the second half, but I don't think many other people around the world are going to agree with that stance. 

You are right fella you have said enough on this topic. But one question where has it been reported Abdurisag said to the AWs 'watch your mouth'? Where? By that you are alluding the AWs abused him. I've seen nothing at all about such a resposte from the Qatari.

Interesting that the Qataris obviously didn't stand down Abdurisag for the Haiti game. Even though FIFA will be reviewing his actions from last week. By Imanix's logic he could have been firing off the word n*gger left right & centre - and the Haitians would have been swell with it. Vamos Honduras.

Edit - oh and the CONCACAF Gold Cup is every 2 years. Hopefully we are a chance of being invited to the 2025 version. Most confederations will be busy with 2026 WC qualifying. If there is any Confed that could be quiet in June 2026 it's OFC.

imanixsupporter

I've said more than enough on this topic. I'd just suggest everyone talks to a black person or two about it, see what they think. See how easy it is to convince them that a black person using the n-word to someone who isn't black is racial abuse.

And just for the record everyone, I'm not a trump fan, I'm not some weird neoconservative who is obsessed with the woke mind virus. Not that it matters but I'm quite left leaning. I think it'd be better if people kept such terminology and framing out of this forum and quite frankly out of NZ. A few of you sound a bit obsessed about Trump and I'd recommend you spend a little less time thinking about US politics. 

My wife's African-Arab - will that count?  Because if so, consider you argument completely knackered...

I am going to assume that you have been discussing this stuff in earnest and so will provide a response in kind.

Just as a FYI Imanixsupporter, it's super important to remember 1, 2 or 10 people don't represent a community or ethnicity.  Back when I used to make similar arguments to what I'm seeing here I took a while to learn this.

My Maori boss used to make comments about what was or wasn't ok, and I made the mistake of blindly reinforcing those views thinking it was the way as he was Maori.  Following his views I made other Maori at work uncomfortable.

Just because your black friend thinks it's ok to use in an angry and insulting way towards other minorities, that doesn't mean that other minorities are ok with it.

Hell even in America African Americans object to the colloquial use of it.

But more specifically to this situation I have absolutely seen first hand it used as a slur towards pacifica people.  It's less common now because racists are generally more careful with their racism.

But in reality to the exact situation, the slur (assuming it was that one) was used in anger.  Michael Boxall and the team are standing up for not using that language to attack a POC on a football field.  I'd be very surprised if your friend said it's totally OK to use that slur on minorities on a football pitch, and even if they do, that doesn't necessarily represent the view of all black people regardless of nationality.

I know I used to use a gay slur colloquially because I had permission from a gay friend because we had a specific context and he understood my heart.  I much later realised I was being a dickhead because anyone else didn't have that relationship and just heard nasty words.

I'd give up lads. Imanixsupporter genuinely believes he is the mouthpiece of millions of black people world wide. There isn't any fighting that delusion, he's been regurgitating the same mindless talking points for the last week! 

Or hell lads listen to imanixsupporter, grab a pen and paper and go talk to your local black person about racism! Heres a hint - what you'll probably find out is that there are a wide array of opinions on the matter because black people aren't all the same. Assuming that they all have the same opinion on the N word is by definition a racist assumption 

anaveragestem

I'd give up lads. Imanixsupporter genuinely believes he is the mouthpiece of millions of black people world wide. There isn't any fighting that delusion, he's been regurgitating the same mindless talking points for the last week! 

Or hell lads listen to imanixsupporter, grab a pen and paper and go talk to your local black person about racism! Heres a hint - what you'll probably find out is that there are a wide array of opinions on the matter because black people aren't all the same. Assuming that they all have the same opinion on the N word is by definition a racist assumption 

You know, Imanixsupporter really is like Malcolm X, in a way

Doloras

anaveragestem

I'd give up lads. Imanixsupporter genuinely believes he is the mouthpiece of millions of black people world wide. There isn't any fighting that delusion, he's been regurgitating the same mindless talking points for the last week! 

Or hell lads listen to imanixsupporter, grab a pen and paper and go talk to your local black person about racism! Heres a hint - what you'll probably find out is that there are a wide array of opinions on the matter because black people aren't all the same. Assuming that they all have the same opinion on the N word is by definition a racist assumption 

You know, Imanixsupporter really is like Malcolm X, in a way

Soon to be assassinated by a YF member.

I don't think there is a regular poster anywhere on this site, who hasn't been 'educated' at some stage.

Yellow Fever Forum, Making the world more informed!

Genuinely an honour to be compared to Malcolm X, thanks all

This thread has been a hell of a read, I'll say that much. And also, it doesn't end...

Buffon II

MetalLegNZ

Put your MAGA hat away please and stop trying to wordsmith yourself out of what you have said earlier.

MAGA? This isn't language we use in New Zealand.

or UK. 

First Ive ever heard the term and I work in a very mixed ethnicity, culture, age and religion environment.

Marco Rojas missed two sitters.

Rock Hopper

Marco Rojas missed two sitters.

Cacace hit a drive on target, delivered a great cross, but could have done better with his two excursions into the box. 

I really hope Stamenic continues in midfield - I know some are talking him up as a future centre back, but he has that languid, elegant style in midfield that is so natural, it's almost Pirlo-esque in its aesthetic... I'd like to see him part of our engine room for years to come and I hope his game develops to truly consistent international quality.

McCowatt ahead of Rojas and others as the main starting forward? 

Stamenic's development will be based on what his club sees, not the AW's. If he plays as DM day in day out, then realisticly, thats where he should play for us.

Its more about others coming up being ready to step up to the plate and take on the CB role.

Talking football finally - we did actually look alright in this game. Certainly a little more creative than in previous outings.

I'm old fashioned, but a player's position in the national team should not be radically different from club level - the system and tactics will differ, and they may have a different role to carry out, but it shouldn't be a la Heremaia Ngata (who was playing central midfield for the Kingz but Ken Dugdale insisted he was a striker for the All Whites?!).

If Stamenic is moved into defence at club level, then that's be the role he's judged on - but I'd hate to think he's a club midfielder and deployed at centre back for NZ (notwithstanding a tournament injury crisis or something). 

Marto

Buffon II

MetalLegNZ

Put your MAGA hat away please and stop trying to wordsmith yourself out of what you have said earlier.

MAGA? This isn't language we use in New Zealand.

or UK. 

First Ive ever heard the term and I work in a very mixed ethnicity, culture, age and religion environment.

Just recently the leader of the opposition had a maga hat proudly on display in his parliament office, and a lot of people on the right repurposed the maga acronym to mean 'make Ardern go away'.

I think, NZ being a small country we are exposed to a wider variety, especially from the Anglosphere, of cultures/news/accents etc. than larger countries where news/culture etc. are more likely insular. 

Bullion

Marto

Buffon II

MetalLegNZ

Put your MAGA hat away please and stop trying to wordsmith yourself out of what you have said earlier.

MAGA? This isn't language we use in New Zealand.

or UK. 

First Ive ever heard the term and I work in a very mixed ethnicity, culture, age and religion environment.

Just recently the leader of the opposition had a maga hat proudly on display in his parliament office, and a lot of people on the right repurposed the maga acronym to mean 'make Ardern go away'.

I think, NZ being a small country we are exposed to a wider variety, especially from the Anglosphere, of cultures/news/accents etc. than larger countries where news/culture etc. are more likely insular. 

I bet Todd muller regrets it now.
https://thestandard.org.nz/todds-maga-hat/

The guy was a jerk and a waste of space. He played the race card at university when running for office there, walking into a halls of residence lunch and telling everyone to be careful or the Māori vote would win. That hall of residence had a Māori floor and one member of the halls was his competition.

All that happened since is he got older, fatter and balder. 

His IQ stayed the same.

Khalil Media

I'm old fashioned, but a player's position in the national team should not be radically different from club level - the system and tactics will differ, and they may have a different role to carry out, but it shouldn't be a la Heremaia Ngata (who was playing central midfield for the Kingz but Ken Dugdale insisted he was a striker for the All Whites?!).

If Stamenic is moved into defence at club level, then that's be the role he's judged on - but I'd hate to think he's a club midfielder and deployed at centre back for NZ (notwithstanding a tournament injury crisis or something). 

Ahhh, Harry. The King of the Kingz. Excelled so much in midfield, I'd say he was better there than up front. 

Rusty Dunks

Khalil Media

I'm old fashioned, but a player's position in the national team should not be radically different from club level - the system and tactics will differ, and they may have a different role to carry out, but it shouldn't be a la Heremaia Ngata (who was playing central midfield for the Kingz but Ken Dugdale insisted he was a striker for the All Whites?!).

If Stamenic is moved into defence at club level, then that's be the role he's judged on - but I'd hate to think he's a club midfielder and deployed at centre back for NZ (notwithstanding a tournament injury crisis or something). 

Ahhh, Harry. The King of the Kingz. Excelled so much in midfield, I'd say he was better there than up front. 

Scored 4 away at Northern Spirit. What a day/night that was. Briefly went top if my memory is correct.

AucklandPhoenix

The guy was a jerk and a waste of space. He played the race card at university when running for office there, walking into a halls of residence lunch and telling everyone to be careful or the Māori vote would win. That hall of residence had a Māori floor and one member of the halls was his competition.

All that happened since is he got older, fatter and balder. 

His IQ stayed the same.

A bald leader of the National Party warning everyone to vote for him or the bluddy Maah-rees will take over? I'm seeing double here

Yep some things never change - I think however Christopher may also have a bit of religion behind him as well to, just to spice things up and keep things nicely balanced 

Buffon II

Rusty Dunks

Khalil Media

I'm old fashioned, but a player's position in the national team should not be radically different from club level - the system and tactics will differ, and they may have a different role to carry out, but it shouldn't be a la Heremaia Ngata (who was playing central midfield for the Kingz but Ken Dugdale insisted he was a striker for the All Whites?!).

If Stamenic is moved into defence at club level, then that's be the role he's judged on - but I'd hate to think he's a club midfielder and deployed at centre back for NZ (notwithstanding a tournament injury crisis or something). 

Ahhh, Harry. The King of the Kingz. Excelled so much in midfield, I'd say he was better there than up front. 

Scored 4 away at Northern Spirit. What a day/night that was. Briefly went top if my memory is correct.

An outstanding performance from the H. He scored some good goals for the Kingz

NZ drops three places to 103 in FIFA rankings - Qatar game must have gone done as a non-result/abandoned. 

Shows how flawed these things are really because post-covid (and including Qatar), we are 4 wins, 3 draws and 1 loss against teams ranked 51-100 - a bunch that are supposedly better than us!

AucklandPhoenix

Yep some things never change - I think however Christopher may also have a bit of religion behind him as well to, just to spice things up and keep things nicely balanced 

yeah he has said as much!

Qatar & Honduras draw 1-1 at the Gold Cup.

Boxy's good mate Yusuf Abdurisag got sent off in the 98th min!!  Along with one of the Honduran players.

Wonder what happened. Must have been after the final whistle, as in these highlights game finishes at 96 mins. The Honduran mention the word n**ger at all post match???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWIfkOQu5Jg
https://www.foxsports.com/watch/play-67c5914f0000a01

1+1 = 3?  But here's the Honduran sent off. He plays in the Chinese Super League
https://www.transfermarkt.us/rubilio-castillo/profil/spieler/356024

From a football viewpoint, given our 45 mins in Austria - sign AWs ain't far off middling CONCACAF teams like Honduras. Watching El Salvador verus Costa Rica now in New Jersey (big crowd with high stakes), is a real pity AWs ain't playing in an event like this. Great prep for USA 2026.

Yusuf Abdurisag & the Honduran player Castillo both get 3 game bans. Still can't find any description of what sparked the post game flareup.

Though Honduras did score just prior with basically the last kick of the game. Just find it interesting that Abdurisag and a black opposition player were the guys shown red cards.

https://www.archysport.com/2023/07/honduras-rubilio-castillo-receives-three-game-suspension-for-clash-in-gold-cup-match-against-qatar/

https://www.concacaf.com/news/disciplinary-committee-suspends-two-players-following-on-field-violent-conduct/

Qatar without Abdurisag upset Mexico 1-0 in California. Qatar edge Honduras (2-1 winners over Haiti) on GD to grab 2nd in their pool, and through to the Gold Cup quarters. They will likely play Panama in their QF.

Maybe the Mexicans played a B team, as already through as top in their Pool.