All Whites v Qatar | Tues 20th June | 4:00am

The AWs stance will be supported in many parts of the world. Boxy's Minny coach is a Brit.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/132410303/all-whites-defender-michael-boxall-tries-to-move-on-from-qatar-racism-storm

Boxall’s club coach Adrian Heath also said the centre-back wanted to put the incident behind him.

"You know what ‘Boxy’ is like, he just wants to move on," Heath said.

"It's something that shouldn't have happened. It happened and [the New Zealand team] made their point and it was a valid one. It got the world's press involved and anything that highlights that type of thing is good, the racism and negativity of that.

"It's not just in the game, but society as a whole. It's sad in this day and age we're still talking about this, but that's the way it is."

Of course a coach would say he is supportive of his player, the same way all of us as partisans of NZF would have been quick to support the boys and believe they are have done the right thing. But I really do doubt that the majority of people in the world will agree, if they have no particular dog in the fight and once they hear the details. 

I'm not as quick as a few others in this thread to believe that this man, in his heart, despite his experience as a minority in a society which some in this thread have been very quick to label as racist, is a bigot who thinks Michael Boxall is racially inferior to himself. All I know is it seems almost certain at this point that he used a word that is widely considered acceptable for black people to say, and I have no right to say that that is wrong or was used with racist intent. Even if he did, you could never prove it. I think the All Whites have messed up badly here. 

I've also been wondering why it was Joe Bell who led the boycott, and not Darren. Perhaps Darren did not agree with the stance? He's certainly been very quiet. 

imanixsupporter

Of course a coach would say he is supportive of his player, the same way all of us as partisans of NZF would have been quick to support the boys and believe they are have done the right thing. But I really do doubt that the majority of people in the world will agree, if they have no particular dog in the fight and once they hear the details. 

I'm not as quick as a few others in this thread to believe that this man, in his heart, despite his experience as a minority in a society which some in this thread have been very quick to label as racist, is a bigot who thinks Michael Boxall is racially inferior to himself. All I know is it seems almost certain at this point that he used a word that is widely considered acceptable for black people to say, and I have no right to say that that is wrong or was used with racist intent. Even if he did, you could never prove it. I think the All Whites have messed up badly here. 

I've also been wondering why it was Joe Bell who led the boycott, and not Darren. Perhaps Darren did not agree with the stance? He's certainly been very quiet. 

Qatari player who launched the insult probably isnt a racist at heart, he may be complettely rational and accepting of allcultures in his day to day life. Does that make any difference? NO! He said what he said, it was insulting, offensive, directed at Boxall and deemed unaaceptabe by the wider NZ playing group. I doesnt matter that the Qatari was darker skinned than Boxall, it doesnt matter that Bell led the walk off (assuming he did, as captain I'd expect this from him). It doesnt matter that the coach is staying clear of the media, along with NZF he's come out in support and then let due process take it's course.

Nobody, white, black, brown or any other colour in between has the right to racially abuse another player!
What you're arguing is that people with dark skin cannot be racist - which is ludicrous. 

I am not arguing that people with dark skin cannot be racist. If he had used a slur that related to Boxall's Polynesian heritage, then that's racial abuse pure and simple. But black people can and do say the n word all the time, and they don't only direct it at other black people. Ever listened to Skepta? "Came a long way from when whites never used to mix with blacks, now all my white n***** and my black mates we got the game on smash" 

Is this the hill we are dying on? We, as non-Black people, get to police how and when Black people get to use the n word?

Put your MAGA hat away please and stop trying to wordsmith yourself out of what you have said earlier.

What was it I said earlier? And I don't know what a MAGA hat has to do with this. I'm not American and have nothing to do with any of that nonsense.

MetalLegNZ

Put your MAGA hat away please and stop trying to wordsmith yourself out of what you have said earlier.

In UK Yorkshire cricket, a Muslim chap came out and stated exactly the comments that he endured from the racists in his team. That led to  some actual action as UK and Yorkshire cricket could then not afford to look away.

Without the words this means nothing and FIFA won’t do diddly squat and therefore it’s was a waste of time cancelling the game. Both players and NZ have basically started another game and not finished it off 

AucklandPhoenix

In UK Yorkshire cricket, a Muslim chap came out and stated exactly the comments that he endured from the racists in his team. That led to  some actual action as UK and Yorkshire cricket could then not afford to look away.

Without the words this means nothing and FIFA won’t do diddly squat and therefore it’s was a waste of time cancelling the game. Both players and NZ have basically started another game and not finished it off 

how about we let the bloke who got racially abused decide what he wants to do about it? Rather than screaming from the rooftops that you need to know because it'll somehow make a difference. Maybe Boxall would rather forget about the whole situation? 

AucklandPhoenix

In UK Yorkshire cricket, a Muslim chap came out and stated exactly the comments that he endured from the racists in his team. That led to  some actual action as UK and Yorkshire cricket could then not afford to look away.

Without the words this means nothing and FIFA won’t do diddly squat and therefore it’s was a waste of time cancelling the game. Both players and NZ have basically started another game and not finished it off 

Both NZF & the Irish FA will file reports to FIFA, and for sure the racist insult(s) will be mentioned in those reports. For now it's for FIFA to know the word(s) used and then make judgement, not us or the media.

What will drag it out, and likely make any real FIFA inaction even more certain, apparently that FIFA committe that meets on these matters, only convenes every International window. So they won't meet again until September!!  Something like that. Carpet brush under.

im really sorry you are a tory,  I am a justicialist peronist as MESSI is  AND EL DIEGO was, AND EL CHE could have been,  dont make me talk about the roca -runciman treaty,  long live LULA !!!

coochiee

Buffon II

imanixsupporter

Tories? This is an NZ forum, we aren't English 

Don't need to be English to be a Tory. It's a political ideology that people resonate with, irrespective of nationality. 

I'm a 'Tory', but I still hate blatant sexism & racism. Political ideology isn't a straightline correlation to these issues. Back the AWs 100% in their decision. As others have said the spontaneous outrage of the players, says it all that something very offensive was said. 

The future? All players wearing a bodycam mic/camera in their jerseys? ChatGPT analysing within seconds if any player has removed or muted their microphone, and that player facing suspension. Surely this level of surveillance ain't far off.

JAVIER16

im really sorry you are a tory,  I am a justicialist peronist as MESSI is  AND EL DIEGO was, AND EL CHE could have been,  dont make me talk about the roca -runciman treaty,  long live LULA !!!

coochiee

Buffon II

imanixsupporter

Tories? This is an NZ forum, we aren't English 

Don't need to be English to be a Tory. It's a political ideology that people resonate with, irrespective of nationality. 

I'm a 'Tory', but I still hate blatant sexism & racism. Political ideology isn't a straightline correlation to these issues. Back the AWs 100% in their decision. As others have said the spontaneous outrage of the players, says it all that something very offensive was said. 

The future? All players wearing a bodycam mic/camera in their jerseys? ChatGPT analysing within seconds if any player has removed or muted their microphone, and that player facing suspension. Surely this level of surveillance ain't far off.

If it helps you forgive me I've visited Evita's grave in the Recoleta cementary! Plus Che's amazing tomb & museo in Santa Marta, Cuba. Socialist architects love a large structure. But it's a long way from being right of centre to supporting the hard right military juntas of Sth America. Argentina & Latin America's politics in general - what a complete clusterfudge of extremes. 

Give me the dull political issues in our part of the world anyday for lifetime stability.

well I lived in FRANCE and SWITZERLAND,  France is similar to Argentina it is politics  24/7,  and is like a religion or a football team France as well,   but Switzerland was dull, they needed to bring back Rousseau that was a revolucionary maverick.    of course I forgive you !!!    we had good presidents  the 4 that acted in favour of people were Yrigoyen, Peron , Alfonsin and the Kirschners, they rest were nightmares.   dont forget we still got the Pope and he is  a peronist , the peronist Pope,  on geopolitics we all say HERE,  that we gave the world a true argentinian politician to the first world,  BIll  Clinton was born down here in Hurlingham or Merlo suburbs ,  he just couldnt be that way an not being an argie!
kudos to you on Eva and Ernesto Guevara De la Serna Lynch !!

coochiee

JAVIER16

im really sorry you are a tory,  I am a justicialist peronist as MESSI is  AND EL DIEGO was, AND EL CHE could have been,  dont make me talk about the roca -runciman treaty,  long live LULA !!!

coochiee

Buffon II

imanixsupporter

Tories? This is an NZ forum, we aren't English 

Don't need to be English to be a Tory. It's a political ideology that people resonate with, irrespective of nationality. 

I'm a 'Tory', but I still hate blatant sexism & racism. Political ideology isn't a straightline correlation to these issues. Back the AWs 100% in their decision. As others have said the spontaneous outrage of the players, says it all that something very offensive was said. 

The future? All players wearing a bodycam mic/camera in their jerseys? ChatGPT analysing within seconds if any player has removed or muted their microphone, and that player facing suspension. Surely this level of surveillance ain't far off.

If it helps you forgive me I've visited Evita's gave in the Recoleta cementary! Plus Che's tomb in Santa Marta, Cuba. But it's a long way from being right of centre to supporting the hard right military juntas of Sth America. Argentina & Latin America's politics in general - what a complete clusterfudge of extremes. 

Give me the dull political issues in our part of the world anyday for lifetime stability.

imanixsupporter

Is this the hill we are dying on? We, as non-Black people, get to police how and when Black people get to use the n word?

No but we can support our player who isn't white and was at the receiving end of it.

Racial abuse is unacceptable and our player was at the end of it.  His team made a call, and I support them doing it.

This is exactly why the specific words being released was gonna be a problem.  Now people are trying to argue how offensive it is and how much permission there was or wasn't to say the specific word.

Good on Boxy and good on the team.

Concern trolling in a weird way about what is offensive is right in the MAGA wheelhouse, whether you’ve picked it up directly or not. 

There was something abusive said clearly. Max Mata’s first instinct is that held by the team ‘You can’t say that.’ The team is unhappy enough to cancel the game losing valuable match practice and risking their careers getting entangled in controversy- but they did it anyway. 

They then submit match reports. I doubt their desire is to punish Qatar or the player, but as Boxy said to make sure his kids don’t have to put up with this. That is to make doubly clear it is not okay and hopefully have training and procedures for referees and match officials to follow.  Their decision alone in a match watched by Qataris will already have had an impact and as Coochie said above iirc make people reconsider their own behaviour. 

Yes, it’s highly probable it will be fudged over somewhat by FIFA, but the action taken and in the context of other current action will already have had some impact.

Racism against Polynesians doesn’t get much of a hearing in the current international culture. But often they are portrayed internationally as barely civilized and barely human. The last rung of the ladder.  They’ve been an afterthought in nuclear tests and in climate change. If NZ (yes, so often a culprit in the past too) doesn’t stand against racism against Polynesian peoples, who will?

martinb

Concern trolling in a weird way about what is offensive is right in the MAGA wheelhouse, whether you’ve picked it up directly or not. 

There was something abusive said clearly. Max Mata’s first instinct is that held by the team ‘You can’t say that.’ The team is unhappy enough to cancel the game losing valuable match practice and risking their careers getting entangled in controversy- but they did it anyway. 

They then submit match reports. I doubt their desire is to punish Qatar or the player, but as Boxy said to make sure his kids don’t have to put up with this. That is to make doubly clear it is not okay and hopefully have training and procedures for referees and match officials to follow.  Their decision alone in a match watched by Qataris will already have had an impact and as Coochie said above iirc make people reconsider their own behaviour. 

Yes, it’s highly probable it will be fudged over somewhat by FIFA, but the action taken and in the context of other current action will already have had some impact.

Racism against Polynesians doesn’t get much of a hearing in the current international culture. But often they are portrayed internationally as barely civilized and barely human. The last rung of the ladder.  They’ve been an afterthought in nuclear tests and in climate change. If NZ (yes, so often a culprit in the past too) doesn’t stand against racism against Polynesian peoples, who will?

the Peronist football Pope, Jorge Bergoglio,  abides send the team to pay a visit to drink a few mates tea get some pizzas later with orange sodas,  and bury the hatchet

MetalLegNZ

Put your MAGA hat away please and stop trying to wordsmith yourself out of what you have said earlier.

MAGA? This isn't language we use in New Zealand.

My word, this thread is an absolute sh*t show

I feel bad for everyone in this thread who have unwittingly found themselves in the position of having to defend calling a black person racist for... using the n word. I can forgive being accused of being a Trump fan but there is a question a few people need to ask themselves:

Screenshot_2023-06-24-21-31-12-70_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg 116.11 KB

imanixsupporter

I feel bad for everyone in this thread who have unwittingly found themselves in the position of having to defend calling a black person racist for... using the n word. I can forgive being accused of being a Trump fan but there is a question a few people need to ask themselves:

Screenshot_2023-06-24-21-31-12-70_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg 116.11 KB

Insinuating that people who don't want players to be at the receiving end of a racial slur are the bad guys is certainly a take.

Boxall (the person the comment was actually pointed at) says it best:

"I'm sure it's a slur he uses colloquially every day, but when it's directed at another player on the field, you can't get away with that."

It's interesting, I didn't think we called people black or white in this country, everyone I know refers to people by ethnicity not skin color. Black, white, Tory, MAGA - this really doesn't feel like a NZ forum.

Personally I don't care what the skin color of the person is or what they say, just that offense was given by someone who should have known better.

We're guessing the word but no one has said it officially. Even then, I can't think of any way that word was uttered in that circumstance (just after a tackle) in a way that wasn't meant to offend and antagonise people. It was a heat of the moment thing but it is a very loaded word.

I feel like you're tieing yourself in knots trying to support an unsupportable position imanixsupporter.

Anyway, this is going nowhere I suggest we just all wait and see what FIFA say.

Yeah I can't see this going anywhere now, can't imaging fifa are going to make anything of it and any opportunity of bringing media attention (non nz media that is) is well and truly gone.

On to the next window, hopefully we can go from winning a half to winning a whole.

Ryan

It's interesting, I didn't think we called people black or white in this country, everyone I know refers to people by ethnicity not skin color. Black, white, Tory, MAGA - this really doesn't feel like a NZ forum.

Personally I don't care what the skin color of the person is or what they say, just that offense was given by someone who should have known better.

We're guessing the word but no one has said it officially. Even then, I can't think of any way that word was uttered in that circumstance (just after a tackle) in a way that wasn't meant to offend and antagonise people. It was a heat of the moment thing but it is a very loaded word.

I feel like you're tieing yourself in knots trying to support an unsupportable position imanixsupporter.

Anyway, this is going nowhere I suggest we just all wait and see what FIFA say.

unfortunately the political landscape of NZ has changed significantly for the worse. American politics have bled into this country with the most obvious result of that being the Wellington protest which you lot in the capitol had to endure. 

In general though that ideology has seeped into our daily lives, into the people around us. I've seen a lot of the older generation in my family use talking points that you only otherwise see on Fox news in America.

Ultimately, what was once a simple question of supporting a fellow kiwi in a very stressful situation now becomes very unusual. They feel the need to question the integrity of their feelings and tell them how they should feel. No ability to see the story from any other angle than their own. 

These trumpisms are here to stay in NZ unfortunately 

I think it is pretty widely accepted that "black" is a synonym for "people of African descent". It is not new, here or anywhere else. It is also not new to call pakeha people in NZ white, if anything, the term pakeha has been growing in prevalence, which I think is great, but it doesn't really make sense to use it outside a nz context. Using black and white here didn't only start when trump came to power in the usa. I can't believe that these terms are being equated in this thread with maga as though they are equally trumpisms.

I think you are wilfully misinterpreting what I say when I say black. I mean "person of African descent" not "person with very dark skin colour".

I also think you're being extremely unimaginative if you can't imagine a way a black person could use the n word without trying to be racially abusive. I think it is far more likely that non-Black players have read offence where there was none intended here. And I think we all know that nothing will come of this because there is no actual case.

Ryan

It's interesting, I didn't think we called people black or white in this country, everyone I know refers to people by ethnicity not skin color. Black, white, Tory, MAGA - this really doesn't feel like a NZ forum.

Personally I don't care what the skin color of the person is or what they say, just that offense was given by someone who should have known better.

We're guessing the word but no one has said it officially. Even then, I can't think of any way that word was uttered in that circumstance (just after a tackle) in a way that wasn't meant to offend and antagonise people. It was a heat of the moment thing but it is a very loaded word.

I feel like you're tieing yourself in knots trying to support an unsupportable position imanixsupporter.

Anyway, this is going nowhere I suggest we just all wait and see what FIFA say.

imanixsupporter

I think it is pretty widely accepted that "black" is a synonym for "people of African descent". It is not new, here or anywhere else. It is also not new to call pakeha people in NZ white, if anything, the term pakeha has been growing in prevalence, which I think is great, but it doesn't really make sense to use it outside a nz context. Using black and white here didn't only start when trump came to power in the usa. I can't believe that these terms are being equated in this thread with maga as though they are equally trumpisms.

I think you are wilfully misinterpreting what I say when I say black. I mean "person of African descent" not "person with very dark skin colour".

I also think you're being extremely unimaginative if you can't imagine a way a black person could use the n word without trying to be racially abusive. I think it is far more likely that non-Black players have read offence where there was none intended here. And I think we all know that nothing will come of this because there is no actual case.

Ryan

It's interesting, I didn't think we called people black or white in this country, everyone I know refers to people by ethnicity not skin color. Black, white, Tory, MAGA - this really doesn't feel like a NZ forum.

Personally I don't care what the skin color of the person is or what they say, just that offense was given by someone who should have known better.

We're guessing the word but no one has said it officially. Even then, I can't think of any way that word was uttered in that circumstance (just after a tackle) in a way that wasn't meant to offend and antagonise people. It was a heat of the moment thing but it is a very loaded word.

I feel like you're tieing yourself in knots trying to support an unsupportable position imanixsupporter.

Anyway, this is going nowhere I suggest we just all wait and see what FIFA say.

Most people I know tend to say people are Somalian, or Nigerian or, if they don't know, African, but why would we talk about someones ethnicity if we don't know it? Same with Polynesian people, it's usually Samoan or Tongan, etc. 

On your US drivers license and in the census you write black or white, here you write New Zealand European.

I know that there was a controversy when Paul Holmes said "cheeky darkie" but people I know who are pretty racist don't use black or white, they tend to talk about the ethnicity in derogatory terms. It just strikes me as strange that this isn't language that we use.

As for your other point, sure it's used as slang but when used in that situation it is undeniably aggressive. It's like the word cod, with mates it means one thing, with adversaries it means something else. I used to live in the US and if a dude came up to me and called me that word I would take it as being very hostile.

Sorry that is absolute rubbish

imanixsupporter

I think it is pretty widely accepted that "black" is a synonym for "people of African descent". It is not new, here or anywhere else. It is also not new to call pakeha people in NZ white, if anything, the term pakeha has been growing in prevalence, which I think is great, but it doesn't really make sense to use it outside a nz context. Using black and white here didn't only start when trump came to power in the usa. I can't believe that these terms are being equated in this thread with maga as though they are equally trumpisms.

I think you are wilfully misinterpreting what I say when I say black. I mean "person of African descent" not "person with very dark skin colour".

I also think you're being extremely unimaginative if you can't imagine a way a black person could use the n word without trying to be racially abusive. I think it is far more likely that non-Black players have read offence where there was none intended here. And I think we all know that nothing will come of this because there is no actual case.

Ryan

It's interesting, I didn't think we called people black or white in this country, everyone I know refers to people by ethnicity not skin color. Black, white, Tory, MAGA - this really doesn't feel like a NZ forum.

Personally I don't care what the skin color of the person is or what they say, just that offense was given by someone who should have known better.

We're guessing the word but no one has said it officially. Even then, I can't think of any way that word was uttered in that circumstance (just after a tackle) in a way that wasn't meant to offend and antagonise people. It was a heat of the moment thing but it is a very loaded word.

I feel like you're tieing yourself in knots trying to support an unsupportable position imanixsupporter.

Anyway, this is going nowhere I suggest we just all wait and see what FIFA say.

Fifa, their new theme tune - 

So just to get this straight: kiwis don't say white or black to refer to people? It is a purely American phenomenon to use white or black to refer to people of European or African heritage? And we are within our rights to label a person with African heritage's use of the n-word as intentional racial abuse, despite not having any African heritage ourselves? People with African heritage can only use the n-word in a friendly way to people they know well, and if not it is probably said with racist intent? 

This is getting into territory far removed from the original topic. The bottom line is a comment was made in the heat of a physical battle and that some AW players who heard it were incensed with what they believed to be a racist slur. While most of us would like to know what was actually said, if only to make our own determination, the word or phrase is not being shared yet by those that know what it was. Our own individual assessment would not have any effect on how the AW players felt about use of the term at that time. Colours and nationalities have no real relevance, the issue is what was said, how it was said, how it was intended, and the effects it had on those it was made to and their team mates.

On this thread, alone, we have had extreme views on both sides, with everyone having the same view that racism has no place anywhere. Arguments from some show their latent racism (which they probably don’t know or recognise) and others show an almost rabid defence of being able to be outraged on someone else’s behalf. A true reflection on our society lol.

I think we should just wait now and see what comes of this. My bet is nothing.  

imanixsupporter

So just to get this straight: kiwis don't say white or black to refer to people? It is a purely American phenomenon to use white or black to refer to people of European or African heritage? And we are within our rights to label a person with African heritage's use of the n-word as intentional racial abuse, despite not having any African heritage ourselves? People with African heritage can only use the n-word in a friendly way to people they know well, and if not it is probably said with racist intent? 

Yes, we know nothing will come of it, at least in terms of FIFA sanctioning the Qatari player accused or the Qatar FA, because Michael Boxall was not racially abused.

I have a flatmate whose parent is African-American. One thing he says about the racism that black people suffer in NZ is that it is far too common for Maori and Polynesians to use the n-word, as though they have the right because they are brown. African-Americans are near unanimous that this is not cool. It is not their word to reclaim. 

Boxall said he would never use that word himself. That's good, he shouldn't, because he isn't black. And in the same way that he cannot say it, he cannot (reasonably) claim for it to be racial abuse when coming from a black person. You really truly do need to tie yourself in knots to be able to say it is. I recommend speaking to black person and seeing what they think if you disagree. 

imanixsupporter

Yes, we know nothing will come of it, at least in terms of FIFA sanctioning the Qatari player accused or the Qatar FA, because Michael Boxall was not racially abused.

I have a flatmate whose parent is African-American. One thing he says about the racism that black people suffer in NZ is that it is far too common for Maori and Polynesians to use the n-word, as though they have the right because they are brown. African-Americans are near unanimous that this is not cool. It is not their word to reclaim. 

Boxall said he would never use that word himself. That's good, he shouldn't, because he isn't black. And in the same way that he cannot say it, he cannot (reasonably) claim for it to be racial abuse when coming from a black person. You really truly do need to tie yourself in knots to be able to say it is. I recommend speaking to black person and seeing what they think if you disagree. 

Well next time someone gets racially abused we'll come to you so you can check with all African Americans to make sure it actually is racial abuse. Any chance we can tag imanixsupporter as an expert on race relations to solve this issue in the future? 

Lol. Point taken. I should have made more of an effort to qualify my statements as my opinion. That's what internet forums are for though right? A few people on here are adamant that the Qatari player is guilty of racial abuse, I very much disagree. I'm frustrated and frankly embarrassed the All Whites boycotted a game of football for what I think is no good reason. To me this is just another episode in the shambolic saga that is the recent history of NZF. Fingers crossed the Football Ferns surprise and have a decent world cup and give us something to smile about for a change. Stranger things (like this debacle, for example) have happened. 

imanixsupporter

Lol. Point taken. I should have made more of an effort to qualify my statements as my opinion. That's what internet forums are for though right? A few people on here are adamant that the Qatari player is guilty of racial abuse, I very much disagree. I'm frustrated and frankly embarrassed the All Whites boycotted a game of football for what I think is no good reason. To me this is just another episode in the shambolic saga that is the recent history of NZF. Fingers crossed the Football Ferns surprise and have a decent world cup and give us something to smile about for a change. Stranger things (like this debacle, for example) have happened. 

Wow

imanixsupporter

Lol. Point taken. I should have made more of an effort to qualify my statements as my opinion. That's what internet forums are for though right? A few people on here are adamant that the Qatari player is guilty of racial abuse, I very much disagree. I'm frustrated and frankly embarrassed the All Whites boycotted a game of football for what I think is no good reason. To me this is just another episode in the shambolic saga that is the recent history of NZF. Fingers crossed the Football Ferns surprise and have a decent world cup and give us something to smile about for a change. Stranger things (like this debacle, for example) have happened. 

You sir have lost the plot on this. Like any insult, offense is felt by the person receiving it, I can be insulted or not by pretty much anything I feel. So it has nothing to do with how the Qatari player meant by what he said. We can all agree that he was clearly angry and targetting Boxall. Boxall (our player) heard a statement which he understood to be of a racial nature and was upnhappy about it - queue walk off action as the statement should not be used in any context.
In what world do you think the Qatari player might have been referring to Boxall in a "friendly, non aggressive manner"? The starting point with a racist remark is hate, or anger or at the lower end to cause offense. He clearly wasnt sayimg "Hey, ni****, lets grab a bite to eat after the game" - you know a statament that would have no realm of offense. It would have been more along the line of "you dirty ni****, you chopped me down" - ie a way more offensive statement.

I honestly don't think you can soften your take on this as an attempt to dismiss the potential racist remarks because the offender is of African decent.

11 professional footballers, backed up by their support staff, heard racial abuse which in fact did not exist, as determined by the keen political instincts of Some Dude On A Forum, with his searing insight that sometimes the ethnic races use rude words to describe themselves!!!

Michael Boxall probably just caught the woke mind virus and spread it to his teammates, someone tell Elon Musk

martinb

The other thing to look at is that there is a global movement right at this moment lead by a Real Madrid star. The head of FIFA, though probably not imagining this circumstance said games should be stopped for racist abuse. There was another game on the same day where this happened. 

Individually these actions may stun people into self reflection, but also currently they are part of a more collective move to attempt once more to draw a line in the sand. Hopefully not by VAR though. Jokes, woo. 

The hope is that come that WC qualifier, god forbid, the ref knows exactly how to handle the situation as a result of this action here and no players are forced to choose between the WC and allowing their teammates to be abused with impunity. 

IIRC though, particularly to Pasty and Smeltzy, Fiji weren’t partial to attacking players verbally…

Global movement right at this moment? 

Kick It Out has been going for 30 years. People have rightfully pointing out racism in football for decades, and there have been many examples of players getting racially abused; for instance Balotelli getting bananas thrown at him and videos of crowds making monkey noises, and an England Bulgaria game was halted twice because of racist chants. 

What world do you live in where you are oblivious to this?

Theprof - I disagree with your baseless assertion that "the statement should not be used in any context".

I don't believe that the Qatari player was using the term in a friendly, non-aggressive manner, but nor do I believe that it needs to be in order to not be racial abuse. A non-black person cannot decide a black person's use of the n word is racist because to them it wasn't friendly enough.

Funnily enough, if he did indeed say "you dirty n****" I would think that could very well be racial abuse. But we don't know he inserted the word dirty, it is just that you have done to bolster your argument, and without it your argument is pretty limp. 

imanixsupporter

Theprof - I disagree with your baseless assertion that "the statement should not be used in any context".

I don't believe that the Qatari player was using the term in a friendly, non-aggressive manner, but nor do I believe that it needs to be in order to not be racial abuse. A non-black person cannot decide a black person's use of the n word is racist because to them it wasn't friendly enough.

Funnily enough, if he did indeed say "you dirty n****" I would think that could very well be racial abuse. But we don't know he inserted the word dirty, it is just that you have done to bolster your argument, and without it your argument is pretty limp. 

context is everything though, your trying to say that if the Qatari player just called him a ni**** with nothing else in play then it's fine. I'm suggesting that even if he only used the n word its clearly meant as an insult or an attack, not some friendly colloquialism.

To be clear, it is my belief that you could use that word in an unfriendly way in the context of an argument with an opponent, and it would still not be racial abuse.

It has been reported that there were words going back and forth between Boxall and the Qatar player involved. It has also been reported that the Qatari said "watch your mouth" after the slur was alleged to have said. It is my opinion that, in the context of unfriendly words going back and forth, it is quite possible that the Qatari said "watch it, n****" in a threatening manner, and then when the All Whites kicked off he was clarifying, "watch your mouth". 

If this was the case, I do not believe that constitutes racial abuse. If a white person had said this to MB in the exact same way, that's racial abuse. But he is black and can and clearly does use that word. And it need not be said with racist intent. Black people can say that sentence and it be synonymous with "watch it, dude". 

The All Whites and MB are within their rights to consider that racial abuse and boycott the second half, but I don't think many other people around the world are going to agree with that stance. 

imanixsupporter

To be clear, it is my belief that you could use that word in an unfriendly way in the context of an argument with an opponent, and it would still not be racial abuse.

It has been reported that there were words going back and forth between Boxall and the Qatar player involved. It has also been reported that the Qatari said "watch your mouth" after the slur was alleged to have said. It is my opinion that, in the context of unfriendly words going back and forth, it is quite possible that the Qatari said "watch it, n****" in a threatening manner, and then when the All Whites kicked off he was clarifying, "watch your mouth". 

If this was the case, I do not believe that constitutes racial abuse. If a white person had said this to MB in the exact same way, that's racial abuse. But he is black and can and clearly does use that word. And it need not be said with racist intent. Black people can say that sentence and it be synonymous with "watch it, dude". 

The All Whites and MB are within their rights to consider that racial abuse and boycott the second half, but I don't think many other people around the world are going to agree with that stance. 

I think you are totally 100% wrong in that assumption, if it's racial abuse one way then it's racial abuse the other, particularly as Boxall is not white/European, he is Samoan. 
You dont get a free pass with using racist language just because your of African decent.