All Whites V UAE Tuesday 10 Sept 6:15am

A few years ago I had an Irish flatmate who hated Tana Umaga for the spear tackle on Brian O'Driscoll during the Lions tour here. Now that tackle occurred when I used to still give a tiny bit of a sh*t about  rugby and I remember thinking it wasn't that bad. Then I went back and looked at it and it was horrendous - Umaga and another player (Mealamu I think) basically try to break O'Driscoll's neck off the ball, a few minutes into the first test of the series. IIRC correctly the entire NZ media was defensive of Umaga, no one was saying he was a disgrace and should never wear the jersey again. (video here - good footage about 2min in)

Colin Meads was also a dirty, career-ending player, but kiwis worship him.

So in the context of the behaviour of kiwi sporting heroes, Sigmund's stomp isn't exactly on outlier. 

However that doesn't mean it should be glossed over - two wrongs don't make a right and all that - but I can't help but feel if Richie McCaw did something like this the public reaction would be very different. 

As an All Whites and Phoenix fan I was disgusted by the stomp and I think that Sigmund should be punished accordingly. I think as his career winds down he's more likely to get frustrated and get the red mist in his eyes, and that's a massive liability, so I'd be happy to see him phased out.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that the stomp was sickening, but the sanctimonious crap from some quarters is a little sickening too. However that doesn't exonerate Sigmund for what was a really, really nasty foul in the 89th minute of a friendly that was already lost.

You know I would not bank 100% on Siggy being picked by the Phoenix. 

While not far fetched, NZF may ask the Phoenix not to pick him to respect the ban (unlikely) or Ernie/Phoenix himself may decide to respect the ban and not pick him.

Put it this way, from a PR point of view, what message does it send to Joe Public who have seen this, know he will be banned, see the AWs on TV knowing he can't play and there he is in a Phoenix shirt. While a different sport, ABs that get banned can't go play ITM Cup. The beat hacks will be writing about it for sure and it would rehash it again.

I'm not so sure that while they get the benefit from him playing, they get the benefit from a PR point of view by playing him. It would enhance the Phoenix image more by saying something like 'we subscribe to the ideals of fair play and are a family orientated club and in going along with that, we will voluntarily choose not to pick him for this game'

Think about it from the Phoenix perspective for a moment. It is a possibility and definitely 'image/brand conscious' and the club will not want any part in the fallout from this. Sponsors may not feel comfortable about it either as those considerations come into play.....

Yours and my jobs are very different from Siggy's job.  When I do well in my job (not very often) people don't generally start love threads on public forums, so it swings both ways.

I am not trawling back through all your posts Smithy, but I don't think you have ever stated that you think that Siggy fucked up.  There seem to have been comments saying you don't think he did it deliberatly.

I think we are both appearing at the extremes of this debate when I think that we are probably actually closer to the middle.  You seem to be on the "he is innocent side", where I come across as being on the "he's a monster" side.  I think that you know he fucked up and just want it moved on from, where I think he fucked up and just want that accepted (by him and his chums).  Ultimately I don't think his career should be defined by this moment, but at the moment it should not just be glossed over.

I am not going to bother reading through that again, but I think that was all a little random in terms of getting across what I was trying to convey.  I'm trying to do a couple of things at once, and a little jaded so sorry if it makes no sense.

Yep that's probably about right.

I definitely think he fucked up. I originally questioned how much intent there was. 

I never questioned whether it was okay or not. 

Having watched it again a few times now it's hard to stay where I was on intent. It does look like he deliberately jumped on him. But I know Sig enough to know he's a great bloke and if he's had a brain explosion here (as Dale said on the Podcast only Siggie can really know this) it's out of character.

I think he should front the press now, talk about it, face the second wave of heat that will follow, and then get on with it. 

I think the extreme "he's a monster let's flog him" position is hysterical. I think some of the points Jeff and others made about how "all of New Zealand hates this type of stuff" are unsupported by history.

I agree totally with your last sentence: it's not career defining, but it can't be glossed over. 
 

I think there's a more important question which is can you trust him in the big games. I think he does have a slightly suspect temperament and that's not something as a player you want your coach questioning. If he was penciled in to start its now massively inconvenient he can't play the October friendlies. 

I don't actually believe it will happen either but was more trying to look at this from a "Phoenix" perspective and unfolding the whole 'what if' if just one person from the club looked at it from a slightly different perspective. They may not give a crap at all but it just takes one person in charge to look at it slightly differently (as I have above) and it could unfold. Again, very much unlikely.

I don't think anyone from the Nix would like the tackle but will they care if Siggy get banned from International duty? Probably not.

Sorry I was not meaning in reference to not giving a crap about the tackle, more that he played for club while suspended for country.

I need to work on my posts. I'm not coming through right the first time. Yup agree.

Worst. Off-season. Ever

a bit late but if anyone cares to listen

Wed, 11 Sep 2013 8:11a.m.

All Whites’ great Steve Sumner joins the Breakfast of Champions. After watching Ricki Herbert’s side crash to a 0-2 defeat to the UAE yesterday, Sumner now has serious doubts about New Zealand’s chances of qualifying for the World Cup 

http://www.radiolivesport.co.nz/Steve-Sumner/tabid/454/articleID/15595/Default.aspx

Thu, 12 Sep 2013 8:32a.m.

Yesterday on the BoC All Whites great Steve Sumner came off the long run as he aired his frustrations at New Zealand’s limp effort against the UAE. Fred de Jong – a former All White himself and NZ Football’s High Performance boss – has listened to the interview and joins us now to debate some of the key issues surrounding the team.

http://www.radiolivesport.co.nz/Fred-de-Jong/tabid/454/articleID/15607/Default.aspx

Jeremy Brockie: All Whites lose to UAE

All White Jeremy Brockie talks to Radio Sport's Elliott Smith about their loss against United Arab Emirates and Ben Sigmund's red card

we'd be doing well to have steve sumner involved in this team