All Whites vs Peru | Second leg | Thurs 16 Nov | 3:15pm | SS1

people actually arguing about the clear hand ball in the area lol

they probably need to watch a different sport

we got lucky the ref missed it . Second half the ref was favoring the peruvian team more but nothing to write about . The penalty though , huge mistake by the ref plain and simple. 

If anyone thinks the ref influenced the final result they need their head read. We had calls go against us we had calls go our way.  He was light years ahead of the usual crap we put up with from Oceania

Nice post Alex.  Good luck.

Overall Im happy with how the two games went..we were always up against it.  Just cant fathom the tactics re Wood and even Brockie.  We needed to score in both games.

Positive for me is though we lost if one is honest we where a chance of getting hammered, and we didn't.

Although royally outplayed, 2 - 0 is nothing to be ashamed of.

But as usual when these things happen thoughts go to us getting the hell out of the OFC as playing who we play is no preparation for playing real world cup prospects. 

Maybe OFC plays first and the winner qualifies for the AFC first/second round. That way one avoids the financial unviability of an AFC/OFC merge. Sure New Zealand has to throw a bit more money at the game as a long term plan. But playing AFC should bring more money to NZ.

I don't like the idea of a 48 team comp where OFC gets an auto place. We have to earn it and playing New Caledonia and Tahiti is not earning it. We'll never get better if we don't have to.

He did influence the final result because he didn’t perform well at all, mostly by missing a lot of fouls from both sides (if anything, more free kicks should have been given for Peru), not the best display from him. At least he was a lot better than Mark Geiger in the first leg, and light years ahead of Oceania refs like you said

Gutted we are out of the WC but I feel we can walk away with our heads held up high all things considered

Was looking forward to drinking with Putin while we ride tigers together in the russian wilderness but looks like I will be watching this WC from my couch in chur chur now

You guys would've loved playing Honduras. The (un)luck of the intercontinental playoffs, eh?

Agree with this. the biggest disappointment for me is that we didn't score in 2 games. Respectable result or not we need to score to win. I'd love us to develop a more attacking style of football over the next 4 years. 

Probably the right tactics today but still disappointing we couldn't put up a bigger fight.

If you like to compete in a world cup, you have to better, simple as that.

Oceania deserves an automatic spot in the WC, its nothing to do with luck its to do with Fifa not valuing the football of our region.

rant over

Any chance that the AW's will be involved in friendly matches before the world cup??  Against Aussie maybe?

They don't deserve anything. The standard of football in Oceania compared to the rest of the world is pathetic. 

Hudson looking a bit sad in the post match interview.

I think if we had to play either Australia or Honduras in our qualifier we would have beaten them both

I'd say FIFA values the football in the region appropriately.

so that’s it done

The final outcome is not a surprise I don’t think so I am unsure of the angst. I’m not saying it’s wrong to believe but a month ago, if I offered you odds on 2-0 over both legs, most people would laugh and go higher. We were always on a hope and unfortunately, it did not happen. I would not fault the endeavour though. We gave our best but across 180, it was not enough. Well done to Peru.

Tactically, I’m not sure Hudson got it right and I think he out thought himself. Why would you leave an EPL striker on the bench for a bottom half HAL Victory winger? I get the tactics of it but strength of talent alone says you get away with it once, not twice. We needed a goal so you leave a goal scorer on the bench... Ryan Thomas enhanced his reputation (he was targeted and kicked off the park today and was not protected) as did Reid (whom probably had his best two games in an AW shirt), Kosta has always been hot and cold but played reasonable when needed, Rojas was invisible and he has been more invisible than not in the last 2 years, Boxall showed he is more footballer than munter. Lewis was found wanting and I wonder if Themi might have made a difference as opposed to him or Bill. FBs (and lets be honest, that’s what they are) is still our weakest position but perhaps not all doom and gloom. McGlinchey, not sure what to make of him. He seems more workhorse these days without being spectacular. It’s the end for Fallon, Smeltz, Durante, perhaps Themi and Brockie (age?). I do wonder Marinovic vs Gleason but that’s for the next coach to find out. We are also about to be light on strikers behind Wood too...

NZF... if I were Hudson, I would be gone. There is no money so he will have to come off his full time dime and the national team is about to get mothballed for at least early 2019. He will want to coach because he thinks he is a good coach. Good luck to the team that gets him. Martin.... well he talked of bringing in money and bought in..... this is where rubber hits the road and the game is about to get paired back to what it was in 2009. His Super Rugby CEO gig has not come off and judging on his performance in the role, I serious doubt any sporting organisation would touch him. I expect him to be back in the UK shortly in part because he never made any headline for a positive reason. It was always disaster after disaster of which he usually had a hand in.

I would be surprised if the above did not happen and struggle to be sitting here in 2021 with Hudson as coach and Martin as CEO. If I had any money, I would throw as much of it as possible at Martin Snedden and beg him to save our sport. Best sporting CEO in the country and he is unemployed. He also brings instant credibility. It might hurt short term but the shake up he would bring in and the professionalism is desperately needed for NZF especially for the future.

I also think that a fresh set of eyes are needed over our youth coaching set up. Emblen is still on the outer - why? Brett Angell, absolute nut case but can take a suitcase full of spare parts and make a V8 rover out of it every single time. Also Declan, as much as I despise him, must be due some consideration, even if we created a development u15s team for him. It would also be nice if the media stopped talking to Kevin Fallon and Brian Turner for their opinion but dreams are free right?

A lot here in the above post that I agree with. It is to do with wanting football to have a bigger place in our nation's field of view. We won't do that with the current parochial, provincial, small-dick, management in place.  

We have a few decent players in regional terms, and one or two that could foot it on global stage. We have a half-decent development system, but nothing of value in terms of where to play to develop further. Either we develop our national league into something a bit more substantial, better funded and more visible, or push to have more franchises in HAL if possible. Either way, for a long-term success, the buck stops with NZF, not with the coach or the players.

And yes, being able to play through Asian Confederation as a playoff for the extra spot (not as a fully-fledged member) is the only way we'll develop. We won't do that by playing in OFC and feeling great after beating the Solomons.

But now we have automatic qualification to the World Cup. Why would we?

OK, maybe this is not the point then. I might have got myself into a twist here.

I am trying to say that we need more meaningful (frequent) AW playing opportunities so that if we get to the WC automatically, we don't become whipping boys each and every time. We are a nation of athletes, and place good value on sporting ethos, so I do not buy this nonsense that we are not a footballing nation. We simply need more vision, and less of a NZF management that reminds me of EQC management (I am in Christchurch), or ACC management. Grey-faced, small-minded bureaucrats.

We need a meaningful and frequent international program. This could be via competitions, playoffs, international cups... I don't know - it is what I would expect NZF to get our team into. Even if we have a foreign-based team A, and a largely local or youth-based Team B, that could play reasonably often. This is what I call a long term vision for development.

I can get onboard with that

I guess the question is this - do we just want to be at the WC, or do we want a chance of winning games at the WC?

Taking the harder qualification path will have longer term benefits than just simply getting into the WC via an easier route.

This really made me laugh? Brilliant.

Absolutely the harder path is where the long term gains are to be made. Taking the easy way smacks of thinking 6th is a successful season.

As I posted previously, there is no urgency to improve if we don't have to. World cup places should be earned. We should seek to make OFC qualification entry into the first/second round of AFC. Playing in AFC ( if it's us ;)) should bring more money into the game in NZ.

And it will certainly improve our level of play and should we qualify through that route, more qualified for the task to come

And I thought Oceania refs this time were fairly good too. Much improved

So this means the future of meaningful exciting games in NZ are dead and buried? I mean we almost had Messi in Wellington this time and we bludy had Peru and we scared the crap out of them.

I want meaningful  games in NZ. And if that gets us to the WC great. But if we don't advance we have 6 meaningful games against teams of professionals in 4 years. None in NZ

Nix better get into the finals

If someone with intelligece and sales skills could convince OFC to be qualifying for first/second round AFC we would have a whole lot of meaningful games. Sure no messi etc but surely better to have a whole lot of quality competative games than a little bit of fan candy every four years.

I think our best hope there is a reorganisation of the AFC into a Asia-India Confederation (West Asia - 12 teams, Central Asia - 6 teams, South Asia - 7 teams) and an Asia-Pacific Confederation (East Asia - 10 teams, South East Asia - 12 teams, Oceania - 11 teams) but I suspect too much vested interests for that to happen.

I think the other option for competitive games is in invite to Copa America.  I think they are looking at 6 invitees to make 16 teams in total for the next one.

copa america would be an incredible experience for us. Highly doubt we would get an invitation , I believe they want to combine copa america between conmebol and concafac, more money and it makes more sense , since america actually covers both continents.

Also keep in mind , next world cup is said to have 48 teams , so maybe we will get an automatic spot there

I feel like I did after the Paraguay game at the 2010 WC. While on paper this is a creditable result and if it was offered weeks ago I would have taken it, I can't help feeling we missed a trick by not being a bit more bold and trying to go for it earlier. 

We knew they would pressure us but we set up in a way which gave us absolutely no outlet to relieve it. Sure, even if Wood couldn't start (and I don't buy that - he seemed to get through 45 minutes fine) we still put out a team which couldn't get the ball out of our half. Tuiloma for Rojas meant that we just got pinned back and Kosta was eveen more isolated than he had been in the first leg. And once we conceded a goal we knew there would be no extra time yet Wood still didn't come on.

I'm not saying we should have gone gung ho. But we basically set up to cede possession and territory to Peru in exchange for bodies in our own box. I know we conceded from a counter attack when we didn't actually have players back but it was the result of cumulative pressure. That shot which hammered the crossbar earlier should have been an indication that Peru would find a way through. And we just gave them attempt after attempt to come at us because we didn't have the players to press them higher up the pitch and we couldn't keep the ball because we were all pinned deep in our own half with the exception of a single short guy by himself up front.

Yeah a draw and a 2-0 loss to the 5th best team in South America is a good result for NZ football credibility-wise, but I keep thinking that we missed a chance at glory there.

Surely this year with the money from the Confed cup and these play off, NZF would have made some decent coin.

If we want meaningful games regularly, then Asia is our only real option. Asia would bring money in as well as countries like Japan and China will pay for broadcast rights etc... not to mention, if you had a NZ Japan game in Auckland you'd get 30,000 every time. Mainly Japanese fans probably, but a good crowd non the less.

I'm gutted, but its the result I expected with a better scoreline than anticipated.

Agree, especially about Snedden. Maybe we can find a rich Kiwi who'd underwrite Snedden's salary, even if Sneddon spends a bit of time working on the side for this new benefactor. Kind of a win-win for everyone. Yes? 

Agree about someone like Sneddon. The guy who runs the ASB Classic Tennis might be worth a punt, can't remember his name (Budge?) but he might like a new challenge and is bloody good.

Well, another WC campaign is over. I don't think heartbreaking is the right word here as, to be fair, Peru largely deserved to go through when you look at both legs.

I guess for me, and I love recriminating and dwelling on the past, the biggest regret is not taking a one-goal lead into the second match. That wouldn't have been overly deserved - but let's face it, when you have a shot on goal that misses by half an inch in the 85th minute, even if you haven't been superior to your opponent, you are likely to take the three points.

I believe had we gone in with a 1-0 lead, things would have been quite different. You could sense the Peruvians getting more and more uncomfortable as the minutes passed yesterday...Imagine how they would have felt knowing they'd had to score two unanswered goals to go through.

In terms of selections, the biggest question is why didn't Wood start? AH said he didn't want the psychological repercussions of taking him off, especially if we were chasing the game. I can live with that, but I still would have liked us trying to take the game to them, and what better way to do that than starting your strongest team? My counter argument would be that if you'd started Wood and by chance you were 1-0 up by the time he needed to come off, you could have then chucked in a Themi (and more defenders if you wanted) and well and truly parked the bus. 

The future looks bleak - yes we might well be qualifying for every WC in 8 years' time - but I still don't see how we can progress as a team without playing frequent and meaningful friendlies throughout the year, every year. Three group-stage games against top teams once every four years will do very little for us, although our revenue from this exercise will certainly go up. Now that regular WC qualification is within reach, any plans to join Asia are well and truly out of the questions.

Without Italy and NZ, this is going to be a crappy WC for me - I guess it's Go Iceland...

Re: the comments about meaningful games, does anyone have any idea how this proposed "World League" to replace friendlies would impact us and OFC? We wouldn't get games against better opponents but we might get more games in total?

https://www.si.com/soccer/2017/10/29/fifa-consider...

You guys did pretty good.
But at home, you need to take advantage of everything.
Should've played an offensive game instead of defending with 10 players.

Hopefully you guys get invited to Copa America 2019 since Italy and Portugal will be invited as well.

I feel like there's not too much of a chance for NZF to jump ship from OFC at this stage. Especially heading into a 48 team World Cup after Qatar. I don't think NZF would want to risk the ~11 million NZD guaranteed for qualifying for the World Cup. (Assuming that figure doesn't change). 11 mill for beating a bunch of island teams isn't a bad deal. And I suppose that could be invested in improved facilities and player pathways. Would love to see a push for at least one Asia-Pacific tournament though.

I do not personally like the idea. National teams should be free to play whoever they want to play and wherever they want to play

They already have a hard enough time trying to get players together and fifa already does not allow many friendly's during the year

Some coaches prefer to play weaker teams to try out players, while others may want to face harder opposition. Some teams make big bucks playing arabs or asian countries which helps them fund money . Some teams want to play a certain country that may have a similar style to a country they may be facing in the future ( world cup for example) to prepared well

Conmebol truly takes the piss with their invitations....I guess nothing will be as bizarre as Japan playing in Copa America 99

So re-watching the game...

Is it safe to say that if VAR had been used, we would have had a penalty in the first minute, thus changing the entire complexion of the match?

Interesting thought. 

and them one later.

I blame Weemac for sharke tracking on the first goal