All Whites vs Peru | Second leg | Thurs 16 Nov | 3:15pm | SS1

I like our squad.

The intercontinental playoffs show that the players were all following the instructions given to them.

The ideals of the national team, in regards to playing style, player type, is something that can continued to be worked on and strengthened.

Major question for me, and might have been raised earlier in the thread (haven't read it) is getting a frequent run of games for the national team outside of WC qualifiers. Does that Handa guy want to fund us? I don't want us to slip into obscurity for us to resurrect from the dead again.

Now looking forward to the World cup draw and match ups.

The one I'd like to see and game of the tournament...

Saudi v Iran, complete with a female ref and gay linesmen.

And us another one later too... but that's a little besides the point. If we had been awarded, and scored, the penalty in the very first minute, the ground would have been silenced, and the peruvians shellshocked. It would have changed the entire complexion. 

I know it's always a bit pointless going into what-ifs but these moments do shape the game. 

I want regular meaningful, competitive games for our national team in our country.  I would like to be able to watch our national team play a game that matters that isn't a walk over more than once every four years.  Automatic Oceania qualification or not, I want that more than I want 2 World Cup games every four years.  Financially though, I know cheap easy World Cup qualification is the much better option.

I don't want to fall into the blame game, nor see this thread go that way. Our players played with hear and commitment which is all we can really ask of them.

It is a young squad, so it will only get better, especially when we think about the fact that three of our four starting midfielders yesterday are 22 or under and Wood himself is only 25. 

On a whole in the last 4 years, when we look at the youth teams at the WC's etc we are beginning to see better results, or at least a closing of the margins and some more technically gifted players developing. Things in general are on up IMO nationally and if we can keep making small gains I'll be happy.

For the first time since I can remember, not one amateur or non contracted player took the field for us in an international game over the past two legs. This can only be a good thing moving forward!

Prediction - this will be the last genuinely exciting world cup. Qatar will just be a shambles and the ones after that are too bloated to work. International football is going to become less relevant or exciting across the board because of these changes (and the expanded Euros and so on). 

On the plus side though, in terms of domestic profile, regular attendance at World Cups might help NZF with sponsorship deals etc

Yeah Qatar is a joke, having it in Aussie would have been awesome and I'm not a fan of changing the format and number of teams, I think its perfect how it is, is it definite they will increase the number of teams and format after 2022?

Yep.

http://www.fifa.com/about-fifa/news/y=2017/m=1/new...

On this site's front-page is this great story on how MFAT's fearless diplomats went into bat for NZF.

Could almost be satire. 

Jets over Lima.

Disagree too with earlier comments the referee had a good game and comparisons with Oceania referees (****!) The first penalty was a definite. Others were just 'good shouts' from either team. But he swallowed his whistle bowing to huge crowd intimidation- and they were very intimidating. If you do that as a Referee you're just not good enough. The psychological impact on Peru would have been immense -  a real game-changer. So I'm extremely disappointed in him. I hope he never referees at the World Cup as he simply wasn't good enough.

And I thank him for the overall effort he put in over 180 minutes in what was a near impossible position as a team or player to win in!

Don't agree with the present format. Why did we even go to Peru? At the end of the day, we are the Oceania winners, and Peru were the fifth place losers - so why not have just one play-off in NZ - haven't we won the right to this? Why do 5th place getters get a play-off at home?

1. It obviously wasn't a 'definite', as it wasn't given

2. You know the only reason he didn't give a penalty is because he was intimidated? You know he wanted to give it but was scared to? That's the only reason? Not because he may not actually have seen it as penalty? Okay then.

3. I'm sure he'd be gutted to find out that you're disappointed in him. I'd suggest the fact that he is a FIFA referee, which you aren't, suggests that he may well be good enough to referee at a World Cup despite your professional opinion, as a FIFA Referee Assessor, of his shortcomings.

So one cant help but wonder about the human rights person complaining about characterizing Peru supporters the way Andy Martin did after what was done.

As pre game the basically said that's not us, then did it, hell they went further than I would have thought.

The noise outside the rooms is probably the worst that Andy Martin expected, and I thought that's what everyone criticized him for.

But the Jets over the hotel room, while could have been in jest, are proper intimidating, and were probably fricking military sanctioned.

And the laser pointers on the face of our players during the game, that's fudgeed up and so far past the line.

I know people who hate Andy Martin will want to pull the pro-peru and anti-him line, but holy crap.

If you get accused of being a killer, you prove your not a killer, you don't go kill someone.

If acts like what Peru did, aren't something Peru would do, they wouldn't have done them, but they did.  It really miffs me.

We lost on the field, but military intimidation and laser pointers in the faces of players in the ground, Peru proved Andy Martin's point way more so than I was expecting.

I'd love to know more about the plane problem that they had. The initial story that I heard was that they were put in a holding pattern above Lima and then had to go to Chile to refuel but Hudson said that the air hostess told them when they were boarding that they were going to Chile first.

Was it a Peruvian Airline? Or did NZF book a plane that wasn't actually capable of making the trip in one go?

Fudge me, the pearl clutching at what the Peruvians did is amazing.

Which is not to say Martin didnt dipshark his way into it. The Peruvians didn't need an excuse for firing up, but they got one.

Now he's whinging about it all. The fireworks are classic stuff. The jetplanes amazing. Laser pens, a bit far but not unexpected.

If you expected anything less, that's shocking naïveté. 

its call home advantage and it is practice all over the world at the highest level. Conmebol teams go through this all the time through qualifying games. The home advantage is really a home advantage. At least the peruvians didn't boo our national anthem , they did not simulate many fouls or stayed on the ground for very long periods of times, or the ball boy started to hide the ball, which are also very common practices in the qualifyings

Is it right? of course not, but that's the way it is. 

If new Zealand wants to compete in these types of games , they need to catch on and really take advantage when we play at home. Everyone was happy and cheering we tied at home , and as I said before , and not many here believed me , the home advantage is HUGE at this stage. The Peruvians took real advantage of their home condition.

It just goes to show how green we when it comes down to this. The coaching staff should've been aware of this common practices and plan better. The federation should've pay more to have a shorter flight. We should've stayed at a hotel near the peruvian team or something.

Aside from the big difference in skills between the Peruvians and us , we just let them do damage to us outside the field, and that could've been prevented.

As per the ref, come on , no ref in the world is going to give you a foul in the first minute of play for something so small. Do you guys even watch football at all?. The handball in the other hand was a big mistake, thank God it was in our favour. Aside from that there was nothing really MAJOR to say we lost because of the ref.  We are the only ones to blame , coach for leaving wood in the bench and for putting 6-8 defenders. We were to vulnarable. 

Easily the best post I've read on this topic.

Martin is still an idiot though. 

As ridiculous as it is, a lot of their fans justification for what went on is that the head of NZ football said we should give them a bad welcome over here. We didn't listen to him so an it's absurd excuse, but all some of their fans needed was a little encouragement which they got thanks to Martin. Starting a hostility war against South American fans is about as stupid as you get - it will never end in your favour.

Without his comments this sort of shark would of still happened, but maybe not to the same level.

Or how about these countries stop cheating.

I thought Durante was to close to covering Reid. Weemac tracking Farfan is a bit of a stretch, he looked super fast.

Okay, according to the article above the Peru government canceled the flight plans. So what? They landed in Chile and waited for new plans?

I can understand the fans making a nuisance out of themselves but the government? That's madness.

So you're blaming the midfield for not picking up the centre-foward?

Wouldn't it have happened?

All we know is he said they would do that kind of shark, our and their media criticized him for suggesting they might, their human rights advocate whinging saying the suggestion they would is xenophobic and other stuff like that, and they did what he said they would do.

The thing is we were the first leg, at most there was the suggestion of our fans punching a journo, but I believe the police said to report it, and they didn't, so I don't totally trust that story.

So they had the precedent of what NZ would or wouldn't do, then they went ahead and proved Andy Martin right.

I still think he's a dick, but as comments further up in this thread suggest, we should have expected it, Andy Martin said the same, it happened, Peru proved the dick right.

The more I read about the Peruvian antics "being the way it is", "normal for South America" etc.. the more annoyed I get about it.

It shouldn't just be accepted that that's what happens. Military intimidation is fairly serious.

If they had pelted the team bus with bottles before the game would we just say "oh well, they're just passionate supporters"

I think if some of this behaviour is allowed then it just opens it up for it to get worse.

You are bang on the money there - and I agree. But then it reeks of double standards when the NZF boss is accused of stereotyping South Americans, being culturally insensitive and proper racist, when such treatment was to be expected.

I think Martin's a git and he should stick to the oval game don't get me wrong. I just hate it when the PC brigade come out in force when someone is stating a fact. Not to defend him but what he said was basically They'll treat us like shark and make lots of noise when we're over there, let's give them a similar welcome over here. Whilst those comments denote total lack of understanding of NZ football culture, in hindsight I think they were nowhere near off the mark as it was suggested.

then you are watching the wrong sport my friend or you should stick to amateur soccer. This happens everywhere , specially on games of this magnitude. At least on countries where soccer is like a religion . 

and there is not law forbidden the citizens to have fireworks , or the military to flight their airplanes. What did you expect? a warm welcome from the peruvians? lol . 

If you want to cry about it  , sure do  , but its never going to change. Thats why you win at home and you take steps to avoid this scenarios , or you cry about it after you lose which is not going to change anything

military intimidation ?? LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Talk about over reacting

the military airplanes were just trying to make noise just like the fireworks.Do you really think the peruvian military was going to attack us or detain us if we won the game

The stuff I read here ....

Plain and simple , we lost because we performed bad, and the peruvians were better than us on the field. All other excuses are from sore losers .  We should focus on how to improve inside the field,

Not once they scored.... 

I believe Wood should have been starting to get as much as we could out of him....  

Since he wasn't, once they scored Wood should have immediately come on as the game was only going to last 90 minutes.

Hudson was going to deploy their surface to air anti-aircraft missiles but he left them on the bench and by the time he went to use them it was too late.

I think overreacting is flying three bloody fighter jets well below a safe attitude to make a point actually (if as some suggested the Peruvians were doing it as a reply to Martin's comments).

There are rules and regulations regarding where, when and how aircraft should fly, especially over cities where safety is a greater concern. Maybe this (there are many other examples) will explain to you while some people take serious objection at what took place the other day. 

But in the end it was all in the name of fun, so why not right?

Just because something we expect something to happen doesn't mean its ok.

Stories I've hear from my dad about when he used to go away to Millwall and knowing there was a good chance they'd be roughed up, they expected it, didn't make it right.

Seeing how far the government was willing to go in order to intimidate us I honestly don't know what would've happened if we'd won. Some fans may have seen the jet flyover as confirmation they could do whatever they wanted to make life hell for us.

I guess because the asia and concacaf teams have to have a playoff  (since neither of them is a conference winner). therefore easier for fifa to organize 4 games rather than 3

40 years ago Football culture was pretty appalling in the UK as well, they changed. We don't need to accept this sort of stuff.

Peru has shown themselves to be cheaters from the Government on down, you may justify it to yourself but you have embarassed yourself as a country.

fire works at 3am is a bit shark but if anything it was rather tame intimidation. I have seen much worse, things have been thrown at team buses and anthems have been booed 

The jets were flown over coast very close to hotel and during the morning. If NZ players found that intimidating they need to get a sense of perspective. Did they think the airforce was going to open fire?

There is a certain naivety and old fashioned rose tinted glasses outlook amongst some NZ football fans which I find quite charming. 

They mostly flew over the ocean 

the blue angels flew over packed super bowl stadiums and I think the south Africans flew a big 747 over ellis park in wc final 

there needs to be a bit of distinguishing between dick moves like fireworks at 3am and jet planes in the morning giving people a show. It was also designed as a way to get Peruvians geared up for game and a bit of banter to nz...no one was going to get shot