All Whites, Ferns, and other international teams

All Whites vs Socceroos | Fri 5th Sept | 9:45pm | GIO Stadium (Canberra) | Duke TV/FIFA+

542 replies · 18,867 views
05 Sep 23:27 · edited 05 Sep 23:27 · History
Gordinho
We've been good all night and were just on the wrong side of the luck tonight. We've missed some good chances and they got a lucky one through a forest of legs. We've certainly played above our FIFA ranking. Can't be too sorry about that. 

Yes but their two fast energetic subs late in the game (and the third that scored) proved to be the decisive factor.  Poppa did well to bring them on to tilt the game balance.  We went for Surman for Singh but all it does is lose the forward option and shifts the game to be played in our half exclusively.  Still, our first half was promising  - better than I thought.

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

05 Sep 23:40
Yes that is the problem with the back 5 system in general actually.
05 Sep 23:46
We really didn’t have like for like to replace Singh and the others though did we?
05 Sep 23:53
imanixsupporter
Yes that is the problem with the back 5 system in general actually.
Personal opinion, and it won't change as it's a bit late pre world cup and he's been 4-3-3 mainly.

But a 3-4-3 would suit the strengths better and help solve right back potentially, hear me out.
                     Big Wood.
       Old/McCowatt - Singh/Just    
Cacace                                         RWB*                        
                Stamenic-Thomas
            Boxall-Bindon-Surman
              Crocombe/Paulsen

Three strong centrebacks (shades of 2010, was a young tommy smith, Reid and Nelsen weren't it)

Libby's fitness, intensity and speed is why Wrexham recruiting him as a Wingback with 3 CB.

RWB - could now be someone more athletic and attacking. Possibly a Ben Old or McCowatt, Logan Rogerson I think even more suited.

With three at the back, there will be time when defending (pre- attacking transition) and therefore early in possession, when one full-back isn't needed at the last line, so they can get higher and wider in attack. 

The opposite - when say Libby tracks a winger to the byline and shows them out over the goalline for a goalkick, or a shot goes straight to our keepers hands (now attacking transition). You can't expect him to magic 60m instantly. So he fills into the #6, stamenic fills higher into the #10 and Ben Old goes high and wide on last line of defence. Principle: high and wide quicky in possession.
Supporting the supporters and love an away day anywhere in the world. Kiwis Can Fly!
05 Sep 23:56
Gutting (guttering - if you are SBW) result. Easily the best performance by an AWs side for a decade.

Tactically we got it right so well done Baze and Elliot. The press, midfield rotation, and switch to TP in behind worked well (save for the A league quality crossing but that's not a reflection on the tactics). 

Physically we bossed them. Boxall was immense - Ive never seen a better display outside Nelsen. Easily Boxall's best game for the AWs - esp with the ball - his passing and drives forward were exceptional. Before this game I thought he'd start with the young guys but cant replace Boxie now. 

My ratings as follows:

Crocs - 7 - didnt have much to do but doesn't give me the yips and breaths confidence. I like him.
FDV - 7 - defended well and didnt get too exposed as had cover from the 6's. Didnt get forward as much into crossing postions. 
Boxall - 10 - legend. Strong, quality delivery. Class.
Bindon - 8 - confidnet, won his challenges, good deoevry.
Payne - 6 - good endeavor - but the gulf to A League was on full display today - esp when A League is in off season. No faulting his engine though - thought he lost a few too many 1 v 1 vs Bos.
Bell - 9 - unsung hero again. He's going Championship net year. Physical, smart, energetic. Back to his best.
Thomas - 10 - best on the park. Silky, quality passing range. Maybe a little negative and passive first 10 minutes but then stepped up the tempo and controlled it.
Singh - 9 - physical, great movement, good himself facing the goal more which has been an issue of late for us with too many touches facing backwards. Receiving the ball more on the turn and adjusting his technique. Now have faith he IS the guy to be our 10 and unlock those defenses. 
Just - 8 - robust (playing like he was 15 kg heavier) and mobile. Always looking for the quick one-two or pass splitting defensive. Notably defended and pressed very well which gave us the chances. For the front 3 this was most impressive was their off the ball work rate.
Callum McC - 7 - best game in an AWs shirt for a while. Looked composed and not rushing, good decision ,making.
Wood - 7 - did well in lead up play- holding it up well with immense strength but finishing was tame. Kinda fell like that about the best we cab expect of the other 10 players and in these moments to get results we cant have Woodsy having an off day.

Subs:
Clearly showed the gulf between the A League (out of season) and in season Europe.
Rufer 6 - laboured, slow to react. Messy. At fault for their goal.
McGarry - 7 - want to see him play more on Tuesday. Still looks like one of the most natural talents we have - just whether his decision making and final product can match. 
Elliot - 7 -did well. Showed good pace and strength. Want to see more of him on Tuesday. 
Old - 6 - not much to write about. Busy with little end product.

Baze - 9 - we are seeing a pattern of play now. A pattern Im enjoying watching and that resonates with a team.. his subs were to manage minutes rather than win the game per se. Hope in Auckland we dont get the same crap we got at eden park after the 2022 Brisbane game where the guys performed well.' Move to 5 at the back ultimately proved costly as we invited them too deep and when you then get sloppy with marking you are in trouble, 

Hard loss to take - i was so proud of the performance for the first 70 mins. We need Garbett and Old to give us bench impact like the aussies had.  



06 Sep 00:03
Can you point to any back 5 teams that are decent to watch? I remember Conte's Chelsea were quite good, I can't think of another. It just doesnt seem to work in practice except if your goal is to be really defensive, really boring, concede possessional and territorial dominance completely and rely on nicking the odd goal here or there to get results. I hate it and I cannot believe how many on this forum seem obsessed with the idea despite us playing the best football we ever have (in my living memory) right now. 
06 Sep 00:05
imanixsupporter
loyalgunner
We looked far better than them for most of the game. Dodgy subs didn’t help. But given we had 3 top players out I’m pretty happy with what I saw overall.  Also great to see some passion. Crocombe throwing his toys at his defenders was good to see.

I loved the attacking intent. Let’s get the win on Tuesday.
Cacace, Stamenic & who is the third? You couldnt have squeezed Paulsen into the same team

Garbett?


06 Sep 00:12
imanixsupporter
Can you point to any back 5 teams that are decent to watch? I remember Conte's Chelsea were quite good, I can't think of another. It just doesnt seem to work in practice except if your goal is to be really defensive, really boring, concede possessional and territorial dominance completely and rely on nicking the odd goal here or there to get results. I hate it and I cannot believe how many on this forum seem obsessed with the idea despite us playing the best football we ever have (in my living memory) right now. 

The players apparently want 4 at the back so think that debate is unnecessary. It isn’t happening, except perhaps as it happened yesterday. 


06 Sep 00:14
Can you be called a top player if you are playing third tier football (and for a relegation threatened side no less)?
06 Sep 00:28
Yeah a diamond of Bell, Stamenić, Thomas and Singh has to be the go. 

Wood and Just up top too. I mentioned earlier I think our wingers do bugger all every time we play. Play through the middle and open up the flanks for Cacace and Payne/Elliot

It probably won’t serve right for guys like Garbett, Old and McCowatt etc but it’s what has got to be done. A diamond formation to suit our biggest strengths which is the creativity of the midfield 4. 

Right back is a massive area of concern but there is no solution right now. 
06 Sep 00:30
I subscribe to Football Australia on YouTube (got it to watch the Aussie cup games) and they are playing  post match interviews with Popovic and others. Fudge me, you’d think they won 10-0, I hope they continue to underestimate us
06 Sep 00:32
Napier Phoenix
I subscribe to Football Australia on YouTube (got it to watch the Aussie cup games) and they are playing  post match interviews with Popovic and others. Fudge me, you’d think they won 10-0, I hope they continue to underestimate us


We need to beat them to prove them wrong.

No use being the better team and losing. Won't do our reputation any good.

Three for me, and two for them.

06 Sep 00:41
A lot of complaining about the subs... do people not understand the nature of international football?

The players have travelled a long way from clubland, and we play Australia again on Tuesday. Wood is on the older side and a very valuable player to Nottingham Forest, while both Singh and Thomas re-establishing their careers and have had injury issues in the past.

I think the same people who criticise their subs would be angry if we played them the full 90 then they didn't start in the Auckland game.

But yes, it did expose that Australias depth is better than ours - their subs were like-for-like ability or even an improvement, while ours all decreased the quality in our side. Most of our starters would be in or close to a Socceroos squad (maybe Payne the exception), but our subs like Rufer, McGarry, Elliot would not be close. This is just the nature of having worse depth, not Baze's fault at all, and something we have to plan around better for future matches.
06 Sep 00:52 · edited 06 Sep 00:58 · History
tablemanners
Gutting (guttering - if you are SBW) result. Easily the best performance by an AWs side for a decade.

Tactically we got it right so well done Baze and Elliot. The press, midfield rotation, and switch to TP in behind worked well (save for the A league quality crossing but that's not a reflection on the tactics). 

Physically we bossed them. Boxall was immense - Ive never seen a better display outside Nelsen. Easily Boxall's best game for the AWs - esp with the ball - his passing and drives forward were exceptional. Before this game I thought he'd start with the young guys but cant replace Boxie now. 

My ratings as follows:

Crocs - 7 - didnt have much to do but doesn't give me the yips and breaths confidence. I like him.
FDV - 7 - defended well and didnt get too exposed as had cover from the 6's. Didnt get forward as much into crossing postions. 
Boxall - 10 - legend. Strong, quality delivery. Class.
Bindon - 8 - confidnet, won his challenges, good deoevry.
Payne - 6 - good endeavor - but the gulf to A League was on full display today - esp when A League is in off season. No faulting his engine though - thought he lost a few too many 1 v 1 vs Bos.
Bell - 9 - unsung hero again. He's going Championship net year. Physical, smart, energetic. Back to his best.
Thomas - 10 - best on the park. Silky, quality passing range. Maybe a little negative and passive first 10 minutes but then stepped up the tempo and controlled it.
Singh - 9 - physical, great movement, good himself facing the goal more which has been an issue of late for us with too many touches facing backwards. Receiving the ball more on the turn and adjusting his technique. Now have faith he IS the guy to be our 10 and unlock those defenses. 
Just - 8 - robust (playing like he was 15 kg heavier) and mobile. Always looking for the quick one-two or pass splitting defensive. Notably defended and pressed very well which gave us the chances. For the front 3 this was most impressive was their off the ball work rate.
Callum McC - 7 - best game in an AWs shirt for a while. Looked composed and not rushing, good decision ,making.
Wood - 7 - did well in lead up play- holding it up well with immense strength but finishing was tame. Kinda fell like that about the best we cab expect of the other 10 players and in these moments to get results we cant have Woodsy having an off day.

Subs:
Clearly showed the gulf between the A League (out of season) and in season Europe.
Rufer 6 - laboured, slow to react. Messy. At fault for their goal.
McGarry - 7 - want to see him play more on Tuesday. Still looks like one of the most natural talents we have - just whether his decision making and final product can match. 
Elliot - 7 -did well. Showed good pace and strength. Want to see more of him on Tuesday. 
Old - 6 - not much to write about. Busy with little end product.

Baze - 9 - we are seeing a pattern of play now. A pattern Im enjoying watching and that resonates with a team.. his subs were to manage minutes rather than win the game per se. Hope in Auckland we dont get the same crap we got at eden park after the 2022 Brisbane game where the guys performed well.' Move to 5 at the back ultimately proved costly as we invited them too deep and when you then get sloppy with marking you are in trouble, 

Hard loss to take - i was so proud of the performance for the first 70 mins. We need Garbett and Old to give us bench impact like the aussies had.  




Don't agree with everything you wrote, but enough to give it a This. I'd say the first half was the most impressive 45 mins from the AWs in a decade or more, if not the whole game.

But seriously in that first half the Aussie midfielders like Yazbek had bewildered looks on their faces. They had no answer and I agree Boxall was immense, my MOTM. He had Martin Boyle a very good player (if out of position) completely in his pocket.

There is a real conumdrum now for Bazeley. It's seems such a waste to have either of Surman or Boxall on the pine. Payne wasn't terrible, but there is always going to be a nagging temptation to move Bindon to RB more permanently. I think that is more likely that a back 3/5, if the plan is to get all 3 high quality CBs onto the field together.

And yeah I also have some faith Garbett off the pine can really make a difference. I think he's going to go very well in League One.
06 Sep 01:03 · edited 06 Sep 01:04 · History
imanixsupporter
Can you be called a top player if you are playing third tier football (and for a relegation threatened side no less)?

No he's currently not near the same breath of discussion as Cacace or Stamenic. But lets see how Garbs is looking in 6 months, have a feeling he's going to go well in League One. Hopefully very well.


Really interesting comment in the Aussie feed for the game, that apparently in AWs training this week there had been, some real feeling evident. An incident or two! Some real signs that the competition for WC places is heating up. Like I could definitely see say Rufer and Boxy having words, if their bodies smacked together in a training drill. Players being a bit on edge no bad thing, as long as it doesn't go too far. Is going to be some good players really disappointed come June next year. 
06 Sep 01:21
Elemenop
So have Piney and Rory got on the piss? Or are they still going on the radio or something??
They were on the FIFA+ coverage for whole game. The video had a slight stutter, which I thought might have been a frame rate issue on my setup, but looks like there was a problem with that feed and was why TVNZ switched to a different one.
06 Sep 01:22
tablemanners
Gutting (guttering - if you are SBW) result. Easily the best performance by an AWs side for a decade.

Tactically we got it right so well done Baze and Elliot. The press, midfield rotation, and switch to TP in behind worked well (save for the A league quality crossing but that's not a reflection on the tactics). 

Physically we bossed them. Boxall was immense - Ive never seen a better display outside Nelsen. Easily Boxall's best game for the AWs - esp with the ball - his passing and drives forward were exceptional. Before this game I thought he'd start with the young guys but cant replace Boxie now. 

My ratings as follows:

Crocs - 7 - didnt have much to do but doesn't give me the yips and breaths confidence. I like him.
FDV - 7 - defended well and didnt get too exposed as had cover from the 6's. Didnt get forward as much into crossing postions. 
Boxall - 10 - legend. Strong, quality delivery. Class.
Bindon - 8 - confidnet, won his challenges, good deoevry.
Payne - 6 - good endeavor - but the gulf to A League was on full display today - esp when A League is in off season. No faulting his engine though - thought he lost a few too many 1 v 1 vs Bos.
Bell - 9 - unsung hero again. He's going Championship net year. Physical, smart, energetic. Back to his best.
Thomas - 10 - best on the park. Silky, quality passing range. Maybe a little negative and passive first 10 minutes but then stepped up the tempo and controlled it.
Singh - 9 - physical, great movement, good himself facing the goal more which has been an issue of late for us with too many touches facing backwards. Receiving the ball more on the turn and adjusting his technique. Now have faith he IS the guy to be our 10 and unlock those defenses. 
Just - 8 - robust (playing like he was 15 kg heavier) and mobile. Always looking for the quick one-two or pass splitting defensive. Notably defended and pressed very well which gave us the chances. For the front 3 this was most impressive was their off the ball work rate.
Callum McC - 7 - best game in an AWs shirt for a while. Looked composed and not rushing, good decision ,making.
Wood - 7 - did well in lead up play- holding it up well with immense strength but finishing was tame. Kinda fell like that about the best we cab expect of the other 10 players and in these moments to get results we cant have Woodsy having an off day.

Subs:
Clearly showed the gulf between the A League (out of season) and in season Europe.
Rufer 6 - laboured, slow to react. Messy. At fault for their goal.
McGarry - 7 - want to see him play more on Tuesday. Still looks like one of the most natural talents we have - just whether his decision making and final product can match. 
Elliot - 7 -did well. Showed good pace and strength. Want to see more of him on Tuesday. 
Old - 6 - not much to write about. Busy with little end product.

Baze - 9 - we are seeing a pattern of play now. A pattern Im enjoying watching and that resonates with a team.. his subs were to manage minutes rather than win the game per se. Hope in Auckland we dont get the same crap we got at eden park after the 2022 Brisbane game where the guys performed well.' Move to 5 at the back ultimately proved costly as we invited them too deep and when you then get sloppy with marking you are in trouble, 

Hard loss to take - i was so proud of the performance for the first 70 mins. We need Garbett and Old to give us bench impact like the aussies had.  




Some of those are a bit high, especially... 
'Good decision making' from McCowatt? I thought he was the weakest link on the field. People have mentioned his defensive work, and maybe, but time after time, play broke down through him...

"You can never get a bloody tradesman at Easter, it's a wonder Jesus got crucified" - Karl Pilkington

06 Sep 02:07
As always this is my opinion and realise not everyone (or anyone) will agree.
Everyone picking on Payne when I personally thought FDV showed he wasn’t up to this level, for all the “talk” of he will be devastating with crosses into wood, my 90 year old Nan would have better ability getting forward then he did, and as for defence the two main things that stood out was he can’t tackle and was lucky he wasn’t given a early red,  And he has turning radius of a truck and a top speed of mini bogged in mud. If Bell and Bindon weren’t on fire I think FDV deficiency would have been more obvious. I’d rate him a 5 and Payne a 6.
Did Rufer cover him self in glory? No. But go back and watch the replay, chucked on by Baze without a warm up and zero indication of what or where he was expected to play during a chaotic lot of changes which killed off our game. Yes he should have done better but Baze/Elliot should have also done more.
Always  find McCowatt an interesting case, watching g the game the 1st time I like others I was wondering why he was playing, the second watch. He works hard always moving trying to open space and some great touches , yes it would be nice if he picked up a goal or assist.
All in all I think a great game and when Payne (in pre-season) and FDV (only starting due to Libby being out) were our worse starters and missing Waine (who I’d like to see tried at RWB) Garbet, Marko, Libby I feel our future is looking good for the windows coming up and WC

06 Sep 02:37
I spoke to Darren Bazeley earlier. 

Here are his thoughts on…

Ryan Thomas

He was so good. We knew he was such a good player, so intelligent and just technically, so good. I think he showed what a shame it's been that we've missed so much of him playing football for the All Whites over the years. But it's great to have him back in and he came into camp – he hadn't been in camp for six years – and just gelled straight away. He knows the players anyway, and the players are all very close and tight, so he just fitted in straight away. Whilst the plan was to sort of gently integrate him back in, obviously, with Marko departing us early, I asked Ryan and he said, No, I'm good to go. Let's go. I thought he played very well. Tightened up a little bit in the second half, and sort of felt a little bit in his hamstring, so we got him off really quickly, and he's fine this morning.

Tim Payne (ankle)/Francis de Vries (knee)

They've both come down this morning and spent time with the medical department, and they're currently doing their recoveries with massages and the hot and ice cold bath stuff. They've both been pretty positive. I've just caught up with the medical department, and they're very positive with all of the players. Obviously a few tired bones and a few tired legs, but the guys that looked like they had little niggles, have actually come back this morning pretty well, so touch wood, hopefully  we're all positive. Obviously it's still very early, so we'll see how we go in the next 24 hours before we get back to Auckland and look to see who's training tomorrow as to who's available Tuesday. At the moment it's very positive.

Chris Wood’s minutes

I'm never going to tactically substitute Chris. We have long conversations with Chris, through his sort of club around what he needs. We obviously need to get the most out of him while we can. But he's obviously going back into (a big) environment. I think him committing to both games is great, but it does mean we do have to be careful and manage him.

On his subs/moving to a back three/whether that helped the Socceroos finish strong

Australia always had that plan. They've got some very good players. They've got this group, (players like) Irankunda and Toure, that are playing at a very high level. They held them, and they brought them on for the last 20 minutes to inject that bit of pace. 

It was difficult for us because we only had one substitute left, because we'd had to go with Chris and Tim and Ryan, and then Francis got injured. We knew we had Sarpreet and Eli that were sort of tight at half time – they were both sort of tight with a groin and a calf muscle – so we were sort of forced into a lot of our subs, and it left us in a position where we couldn't really put those attacking players on like Australia did.
 
Finn (Surman’s) obviously a very good player. He was very unlucky not to start. We saw these guys coming on and thought that's a good move for us, to go to get Finn on to help deal with Irankunda and Toure. It was disappointing to concede a goal. Had we not conceded, we probably go we managed (it OK), with the players we'd taken off –  Chris Wood, Ryan Thomas, Sarpreet Singh, Eli Just. It's very difficult to replace those guys. We've got good depth, but you can say it's hard to replace those guys like for like. Potentially, you could say Australia took players off and brought stronger players on, different players, but they've got that little bit more depth. Irankunda's scoring in the Championship every week and we haven't really got that. Our sort of three would be Jesse Randall, Luke Brooke-Smith, Logan Rogerson, as regards to attacking options. They're good players, and (Brooke-Smith and Randall) are young, but Australia have got some firepower that they brought on there. We confabbed on the sideline, and thought, no, it's a good way to combat that, as a reaction to their subs.

On how much the loss hurt/getting up for Tuesday

There was enough in the game for the players and everybody to take really strong belief and confidence of the level that we can play at. It's pretty apparent, when we were strong, we were very good, very strong and it was disruptive with the changes, but I suppose that is the games at the moment. It's not a World Cup. It's not those games where Woodsy would play 90 minutes, so it does get a bit disruptive. We see it as opportunities for other people, so it's not the worst thing in the world. But when we were strong, we were really good in and out of possession. The job now is to back it up, back up the performance, but go and get a result. We created enough chances to win the game. 

Last night we would have been disappointed if we'd have come off drawing, that would have still hurt, so to lose is even worse. It hurts bad, and the players are really hurting from last night because they know we had them and we let them off the hook, and they're a good team, but I thought it was a really strong performance. We sort of come back to – you have to take the chances when they come along. We created chances, which is a bonus, which is a positive side to maybe some of our previous performances. 

When you look at the Cote d'Ivoire game, we beat Cote d’Ivoire 1-0. We played better last night, but lost. It's a difficult one. We were really happy with Cote d'Ivoire, but we took a chance and they didn't on that day. Last night, we didn't take our chances while Aussie took one chance, and we ended up losing the game. We don't get too carried away with the win over Cote d'Ivoire and we also don't get too carried away with losing, in regards to how bad that feels.  I think we know there was a lot of good things and still things to work on.
06 Sep 03:30
AV - be interesting maybe next week to hear Baze talk about that rumour (via Aus coomentators) of a bit of friction at AWs training in Canberra.
06 Sep 08:28
imanixsupporter
Can you point to any back 5 teams that are decent to watch? I remember Conte's Chelsea were quite good, I can't think of another. It just doesnt seem to work in practice except if your goal is to be really defensive, really boring, concede possessional and territorial dominance completely and rely on nicking the odd goal here or there to get results. I hate it and I cannot believe how many on this forum seem obsessed with the idea despite us playing the best football we ever have (in my living memory) right now. 
Inter Milan have regularly played with a back 3 or 5 over the past 4 seasons and look brilliant while playing it. Even last season. Palace and Wolves used it all last year too, and Palace won silverware with it. Spurs have used it plenty of times over the past decade across different managers - you can call spurs many things but certainly not defensive. Barcelona under Cruyff played a back 3, there's no way that was boring and defensive, few teams have had more impact on modern football than them

To say "it doesn't seem to work in practice except if your goal is to be really defensive and boring" is such a laughably bad take.
Annual finals disappointment enthusiast.

06 Sep 14:34
Yes.  5th tier even, IIRC, as Kante did.
imanixsupporter
Can you be called a top player if you are playing third tier football (and for a relegation threatened side no less)?