Football Ferns

theprof

Doloras

Looks like it might have been (at least partly) a player revolt after all

Leaked letter to Football Ferns players reveals a ‘restorative process’ is underway weeks out from Olympics

Not surprised, as mrsmiis says this whole thing has been shambolic and simply embarrassing. Not just from the managerial side but from the players as well. Just a gross lack of professionalism from all parties. NZF for hiring someone who is clearly out of their depth for such a long time, which has lead to a continuation of a pretty shark environment by all accounts but also the senior players again showing their disrespect for the country they are supposed to be representing - why did this have to be so public? Surely everyone could have just got on with the job at had an in-house review at the end of it all where it all gets aired and sorted. Having a manager/coach leave in the middle of scheduled games is a terrible look.

Although.......if the senior players were an issue, wouldn't the coach just not select them? That's what I would do? 

(to be fair, I think that the senior Ferns must be a bolshie lot, as this theme seems to come up a lot regardless of the manager, but I can't marry that up with they are being constantly selected. If someone's a pain, don't pick them)

Problem is as yet the Ferns don't have enough depth to just go drop all the older heads, and replace them with kids.

The Nix ALW team is helping change that. See the emergence of Fraser, Clegg, Taylor, Foster, Barry, Wisnewski etc. And a 2nd NZ ALW team with AFC will accelerate that further

We are just guessing as to what the issue(s) with Klimkova are. Though does sound like it's another split within the squad situation. As it was with controversial Heraf - some of players actually supported him.

If it is older age 30+ players (Wilkinson, Stott, Ali Riley, Esson etc age group) who are mostly the dissenters, then you just get through this next 6 weeks. Post Olympics tell them is perhaps best they retire, because they are no longer part of the planning in the leadup to the 2028 WWC, as start focussing on younger players.

If the problem is also/more that 25-30 year age group (Bowen, Moore, Bott, Steinmetz, Cleverley, Hand) - then that is a big problem as this is your experienced quality core that takes you through to 2028. In this instance you'd have to look to exit out Klimkova.

I don't see the younger (sub age 25) brigade as being unhappy with Jitka, as she has given them all their debuts. She seems to promote youth. I maybe wrong, but I see them as mostly being happy with the Ferns coach.

And then if the unhappy players are spread all across the different age groups, again NZF need to replace the Czech. Signing her to a 6 year deal was very odd.

Edit - wonder if Bott is a dissenter. Was very odd a few windows back when she was dropped from the Ferns. Klimkova made it clear she was dropped, not 'rested'. She was one of the better players at the WWC, and is a regular starter in one of best women's football leagues in the world. But her form for the Ferns post WWC seems to have been disappointing.

Total speculation and trying to read between the lines. 
Sounds like NZF are trying to implement a new culture, maybe upping the level of professionalism (which many on this forum have been kind of advocating, although often through neg comments). But are meeting some resistance from the playing group or individuals.
Which would be surprising as all the team are in professional club environments now, so you would expect the same at national level.
But as I have mentioned in previous posts. What works for men professionally might not necessarily work the same for women. Although having a female coach you would think helps with the process of delivery to the team.  (in stark contrast to Heraf who was both male and from a foreign culture).
Or maybe the gripe is between NZF and Klimkova about how they go with implementing a cultural changes with-in the team. And some players are backing Klimkova over NZF.
Like I said total speculation.

Yeah I don't really think you can criticise NZF too much for the way they are trying to handle this. Klimkova stood herself down, so NZF had to come out and explain her absence fror the Japanese games in Spain.

Then they conduct an investigation which for now should yes be behind closed doors. That gives all parties the freedom to honestly air their views, as happens in any similar professional employment investigation. If a player leaks Pragnell's letter to RNZ, that reflects more on that player than NZF.

Where NZF have fudgeed up is yes giving a basically unknown foreign coach to NZ, a 6 year deal. That wasn't smart, for an organisation that doesn't have spare cash to throw around on early contract termination payouts.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350317361/leaked-letter-football-ferns-players-reveals-restorative-process-underway-weeks-out

In his letter to the Ferns squad, Pragnell did not give players any further insight into the findings of the (Klimkova) investigation.

"As you will appreciate, the terms of this process are strictly bound by confidentiality agreements that, if breached, would have significant implications for the parties concerned.

"Consequently, there is not a lot that can be reported further at this stage, however NZF has treated this matter very seriously, undertaken independent expertise to investigate a complaint and followed legal advice and due process with [NZ Professional Footballers' Association] support along the way."

NZPFA general manager Jacob Spoonley declined to comment on the investigation.

Maybe less speculation about the players and more on how poor Klimkova and NZF have been?

Ladies and gentlemen: we got her

Jitka Klimková, in consultation with NZ Football, has opted to stand down from her role as head coach of the Ford Football Ferns for the Summer Olympics.

In her absence, assistant coach Michael Mayne will act as head coach at Paris 2024.

Read more at https://t.co/0EJGsA8e6t

— New Zealand Football 🇳🇿 (@NZ_Football) June 28, 2024

Doloras

Ladies and gentlemen: we got her

Jitka Klimková, in consultation with NZ Football, has opted to stand down from her role as head coach of the Ford Football Ferns for the Summer Olympics.

In her absence, assistant coach Michael Mayne will act as head coach at Paris 2024.

Read more at https://t.co/0EJGsA8e6t

— New Zealand Football 🇳🇿 (@NZ_Football) June 28, 2024

The wording makes it sound like it's just for the Olympics? And that it might not be a permanent standing down? So should we expect her to be back in the role after the Olympics?

I'd say some in the playing group 'got her'. Doesn't seem like she has yet fully resigned as head coach, just stood herself down for the Olympics.

Waiting for some of the older players to retire post Olympics?  "it would not be the right time for her to return (now)"

Or digging her toes in to make sure she gets the full severance package she is due, with 3 years still to go on her contract? Which if so, she is fully entitled to do.


Jitka Klimková, in consultation with New Zealand Football, has opted to stand down from her role as head coach of the Ford Football Ferns for the upcoming Paris 2024 Summer Olympics.

The decision comes following conclusion of an independent workplace employment investigation which cleared Klimková to lead the team at Paris 2024, however, in consultation with New Zealand Football, Klimková has taken the view that due to concerns in relation to the team environment, her wellbeing, and a restorative process having not been completed, it would not be the right time for her to return.

In her absence, assistant coach Michael Mayne will act as head coach for the games and will be bringing in additional support staff to ensure the team are equipped to perform on the global stage.

Oh and will Natalie Lawrence be part of the support staff. I'll be very curious to see.

What a real shark show this is. Just get rid of her.

Team performances under Jitka (Barring the World Cup Opener v Norway) have taken us several steps backwards, all the while women's football around the globe is moving forwards in leaps and bounds and we've been left behind. Without knowing the details around her employment matter recently, it sounds as though she's lost the dressing room. What benefit does it do for us if she's being kept on?

I was willing to give her a chance at the beginning, despite and underwhelming background and a lack of understanding around the state of the women's game in this country - Nothing she has done since has bettered the game in this country and it's probably about time someone at NZF picked up their balls and show her the door...

Who the hell gave her a 6 year deal in the first place?? That person if still employed should be sacked too.

YoungHeartHM

What a real shark show this is. Just get rid of her.

Team performances under Jitka (Barring the World Cup Opener v Norway) have taken us several steps backwards, all the while women's football around the globe is moving forwards in leaps and bounds and we've been left behind. Without knowing the details around her employment matter recently, it sounds as though she's lost the dressing room. What benefit does it do for us if she's being kept on?

I was willing to give her a chance at the beginning, despite and underwhelming background and a lack of understanding around the state of the women's game in this country - Nothing she has done since has bettered the game in this country and it's probably about time someone at NZF picked up their balls and show her the door...

With so many talent players at her disposal, that team should have been doing a lot better. In what is an amazing time for the Ferns with lots of players progressing at various club levels, under achievement at the International level is very disappointing.

LG

YoungHeartHM

What a real shark show this is. Just get rid of her.

Team performances under Jitka (Barring the World Cup Opener v Norway) have taken us several steps backwards, all the while women's football around the globe is moving forwards in leaps and bounds and we've been left behind. Without knowing the details around her employment matter recently, it sounds as though she's lost the dressing room. What benefit does it do for us if she's being kept on?

I was willing to give her a chance at the beginning, despite and underwhelming background and a lack of understanding around the state of the women's game in this country - Nothing she has done since has bettered the game in this country and it's probably about time someone at NZF picked up their balls and show her the door...

With so many talent players at her disposal, that team should have been doing a lot better. In what is an amazing time for the Ferns with lots of players progressing at various club levels, under achievement at the International level is very disappointing.

Agreed. 

It's been a slow burn for the AW's too, but at least you can see the structure and basis of a team being pieced together.

All the pieces for the Football Ferns however still seem to be sitting in the box - Unfortunate as it is to say that...

From the outside looking in, it looks like a mix of players and staff guilty for our under performing. 

We keep picking Wilkinson who has been garbage for years for instance. Is that Jitka or player power? Look at Naylor when she spat the dummy at club level for getting dumped by her cub even though she wasn’t good enough.

I think both sides are guilty here. I also hope that Lawrence stays away, she hasn’t shown much as a coach either and seems to have rubbed up one of better young players the wrong way.

LG

YoungHeartHM

What a real shark show this is. Just get rid of her.

Team performances under Jitka (Barring the World Cup Opener v Norway) have taken us several steps backwards, all the while women's football around the globe is moving forwards in leaps and bounds and we've been left behind. Without knowing the details around her employment matter recently, it sounds as though she's lost the dressing room. What benefit does it do for us if she's being kept on?

I was willing to give her a chance at the beginning, despite and underwhelming background and a lack of understanding around the state of the women's game in this country - Nothing she has done since has bettered the game in this country and it's probably about time someone at NZF picked up their balls and show her the door...

With so many talent players at her disposal, that team should have been doing a lot better. In what is an amazing time for the Ferns with lots of players progressing at various club levels, under achievement at the International level is very disappointing.

Not really most of the Ferns are in middling leagues.

Exceptions.
Leat a reserve keeper in the WSL. Bott at Leicester.
Fraser & Clegg (yet to play) now in the NWSL.
Probably Bowen In Italy 

But the rest are just all in average sort of leagues, so a myth to say there are loads of talented players. On a world scale there isn't

As Niche Cache always says the Ferns mostly lose to the teams higher ranked than them, and mostly beat those lower than them.

Rarities beating Norway and then losing to the Philippines.

As a team they are sort of treading water, and that's not great when so many other bigger football countries are now getting serious about the women's game. The hope lies in the Nix ALW (and soon Auckland ALW) sides bringing through increased numbers of talented young girls.

To be fair to Klimkova (or any coach) with the Ferns they can only do so much, with the talent they have. Team did little of note under Sermanni either.

But yeah getting spanked by Portugal pre the WWC after a cringeworthy Riley/Klimkova double act press conference was a low point to me. Got worse against Argentina the next game.

The ferns seem to be a basket case at this point, hard to see how to really improve things now.

We talk about having more talent at our disposal now but the same is true of nearly every other serious football nation with more and better besides.

What kind of coach can we get that can really change things? I must say I don't  think there's be a lot of coaches looking at the ferns now wanting to be involved with the way things have been going.

The ferns seem to be a basket case at this point, hard to see how to really improve things now.

We talk about having more talent at our disposal now but the same is true of nearly every other serious football nation with more and better besides.

What kind of coach can we get that can really change things? I must say I don't  think there's be a lot of coaches looking at the ferns now wanting to be involved with the way things have been going.

LG

Who the hell gave her a 6 year deal in the first place?? That person if still employed should be sacked too.

With both Klimkova and Herdman they have been made to look stupid. I repeat, the only thing that is preventing Football from being our National Sport, is NZ Football

LG

YoungHeartHM

What a real shark show this is. Just get rid of her.

Team performances under Jitka (Barring the World Cup Opener v Norway) have taken us several steps backwards, all the while women's football around the globe is moving forwards in leaps and bounds and we've been left behind. Without knowing the details around her employment matter recently, it sounds as though she's lost the dressing room. What benefit does it do for us if she's being kept on?

I was willing to give her a chance at the beginning, despite and underwhelming background and a lack of understanding around the state of the women's game in this country - Nothing she has done since has bettered the game in this country and it's probably about time someone at NZF picked up their balls and show her the door...

With so many talent players at her disposal, that team should have been doing a lot better. In what is an amazing time for the Ferns with lots of players progressing at various club levels, under achievement at the International level is very disappointing.

Completely disagree.

Yes the foundations are there for better player development and there are better footballers coming through, but we are getting overtaken by many countries especially in Europe and South America in terms of playing squad quality, and that's not even talking results. We are going backwards and that's probably independent of who the coach is (and yes Klimkova is not a good option)

Latest on Newshub.

Newshub understands an incident prompted the initial investigation, the details of which remain unclear. As a result of this incident, Klimkova has lost the dressing room's confidence. 

Sources within the team confirm 'players only' meetings were held, led by senior players to try and remove her as coach, despite having three years to run on her deal. 

Player power, make them fly economy so that nzf can pay them out.
Maybe don't replace her as the players have all the power let them sort themselves out... they obviously know better.

What decent coach would ever want to touch the ferns now that they know the players have this much power? 

It's fascinating too as surely this means there's a large split in the senior players as Riley is mates with Klimkova. There needs to be some serious investigations into this and imo they need to get rid of all the players involved, no future selection. Yes Klimkova is a bad coach but there's no saying they wouldn't do this to a good one also. It's not like it would really make our results any worse tbh.

I'm beginning to wonder - in the sense of bizarre coaching and selection decisions and a general air of cluelessness - that both the Football Ferns and the White Ferns are basket cases. Are our other national women's teams in similar conditions?

Doloras

I'm beginning to wonder - in the sense of bizarre coaching and selection decisions and a general air of cluelessness - that both the Football Ferns and the White Ferns are basket cases. Are our other national women's teams in similar conditions?

Black Ferns had similar issues prior to the world cup, Wayne Smith ended up taking over. Seems to be a common issue for some reason.

Monto

Doloras

I'm beginning to wonder - in the sense of bizarre coaching and selection decisions and a general air of cluelessness - that both the Football Ferns and the White Ferns are basket cases. Are our other national women's teams in similar conditions?

Black Ferns had similar issues prior to the world cup, Wayne Smith ended up taking over. Seems to be a common issue for some reason.

I've said this to many people before, but it's worth repeating. This isnt NZ female sports thing in any way. It's happening globally, the US womens football team for one. Recently it seem to be big in women's sports, as they transition from the semi-pro to actual pro (full time) players. I'm not sure whether its just players becoming bolder and their expectations of environment and training/coaching not being met, or just simply a bunch of older (male) coaches being too pushy and bossy/mean with players who they see as just young girls. Eitherway it has coincided with the push for equal pay for female athletes and therefore increased attention being paid to their sports as sponsors and fans are paying more attention. It's probably a combo of all of the above, but at the ends of the day I think we have a lot of young-ish female sports stars who are finding their voices and some are taking it too far and forming clicks within squads to get what they want. The management of these kinds of things has been poorly handled by clubs/franchises and international organisations. 
I'm not sure if this kind of thing occurred when professionalism hit male sprts teams, but maybe i wasnt aware of it happening?

theprof

Monto

Doloras

I'm beginning to wonder - in the sense of bizarre coaching and selection decisions and a general air of cluelessness - that both the Football Ferns and the White Ferns are basket cases. Are our other national women's teams in similar conditions?

Black Ferns had similar issues prior to the world cup, Wayne Smith ended up taking over. Seems to be a common issue for some reason.

I've said this to many people before, but it's worth repeating. This isnt NZ female sports thing in any way. It's happening globally, the US womens football team for one. Recently it seem to be big in women's sports, as they transition from the semi-pro to actual pro (full time) players. I'm not sure whether its just players becoming bolder and their expectations of environment and training/coaching not being met, or just simply a bunch of older (male) coaches being too pushy and bossy/mean with players who they see as just young girls. Eitherway it has coincided with the push for equal pay for female athletes and therefore increased attention being paid to their sports as sponsors and fans are paying more attention. It's probably a combo of all of the above, but at the ends of the day I think we have a lot of young-ish female sports stars who are finding their voices and some are taking it too far and forming clicks within squads to get what they want. The management of these kinds of things has been poorly handled by clubs/franchises and international organisations. 
I'm not sure if this kind of thing occurred when professionalism hit male sprts teams, but maybe i wasnt aware of it happening?

It is true that it's very much a global thing but the Ferns seem to have some deep cultural issues. Someone I know played with someone who has been in the Ferns camp relatively recently (obviously not gonna name names) and their experience was that it was full of cliques and there was a lot of outright bullying, especially towards new players. By this account Satchell copped a lot of it (she's not the source of this story though).

There does seem to be some unique cultural rot in this team and anyone who's experienced this in their own workplace knows how hard this is to change.

Monto

theprof

Monto

Doloras

I'm beginning to wonder - in the sense of bizarre coaching and selection decisions and a general air of cluelessness - that both the Football Ferns and the White Ferns are basket cases. Are our other national women's teams in similar conditions?

Black Ferns had similar issues prior to the world cup, Wayne Smith ended up taking over. Seems to be a common issue for some reason.

I've said this to many people before, but it's worth repeating. This isnt NZ female sports thing in any way. It's happening globally, the US womens football team for one. Recently it seem to be big in women's sports, as they transition from the semi-pro to actual pro (full time) players. I'm not sure whether its just players becoming bolder and their expectations of environment and training/coaching not being met, or just simply a bunch of older (male) coaches being too pushy and bossy/mean with players who they see as just young girls. Eitherway it has coincided with the push for equal pay for female athletes and therefore increased attention being paid to their sports as sponsors and fans are paying more attention. It's probably a combo of all of the above, but at the ends of the day I think we have a lot of young-ish female sports stars who are finding their voices and some are taking it too far and forming clicks within squads to get what they want. The management of these kinds of things has been poorly handled by clubs/franchises and international organisations. 
I'm not sure if this kind of thing occurred when professionalism hit male sprts teams, but maybe i wasnt aware of it happening?

It is true that it's very much a global thing but the Ferns seem to have some deep cultural issues. Someone I know played with someone who has been in the Ferns camp relatively recently (obviously not gonna name names) and their experience was that it was full of cliques and there was a lot of outright bullying, especially towards new players. By this account Satchell copped a lot of it (she's not the source of this story though).

There does seem to be some unique cultural rot in this team and anyone who's experienced this in their own workplace knows how hard this is to change.

Asolutely agree there are definately some "cool kid" cliques in that group, who are clearly trying to run the joint. Whilst i dont think Klimkova was the right person for the job, I dont think it would be an easy environment to find success in with all those personalities already running things. You'd hope that as the older players move on that this might change a bit?

theprof

Monto

theprof

Monto

Doloras

I'm beginning to wonder - in the sense of bizarre coaching and selection decisions and a general air of cluelessness - that both the Football Ferns and the White Ferns are basket cases. Are our other national women's teams in similar conditions?

Black Ferns had similar issues prior to the world cup, Wayne Smith ended up taking over. Seems to be a common issue for some reason.

I've said this to many people before, but it's worth repeating. This isnt NZ female sports thing in any way. It's happening globally, the US womens football team for one. Recently it seem to be big in women's sports, as they transition from the semi-pro to actual pro (full time) players. I'm not sure whether its just players becoming bolder and their expectations of environment and training/coaching not being met, or just simply a bunch of older (male) coaches being too pushy and bossy/mean with players who they see as just young girls. Eitherway it has coincided with the push for equal pay for female athletes and therefore increased attention being paid to their sports as sponsors and fans are paying more attention. It's probably a combo of all of the above, but at the ends of the day I think we have a lot of young-ish female sports stars who are finding their voices and some are taking it too far and forming clicks within squads to get what they want. The management of these kinds of things has been poorly handled by clubs/franchises and international organisations. 
I'm not sure if this kind of thing occurred when professionalism hit male sprts teams, but maybe i wasnt aware of it happening?

It is true that it's very much a global thing but the Ferns seem to have some deep cultural issues. Someone I know played with someone who has been in the Ferns camp relatively recently (obviously not gonna name names) and their experience was that it was full of cliques and there was a lot of outright bullying, especially towards new players. By this account Satchell copped a lot of it (she's not the source of this story though).

There does seem to be some unique cultural rot in this team and anyone who's experienced this in their own workplace knows how hard this is to change.

Asolutely agree there are definately some "cool kid" cliques in that group, who are clearly trying to run the joint. Whilst i dont think Klimkova was the right person for the job, I dont think it would be an easy environment to find success in with all those personalities already running things. You'd hope that as the older players move on that this might change a bit?

I would hope so too, really think there needs to be a big clear out if they want to move foward and create a high performance culture there.

Monto

What decent coach would ever want to touch the ferns now that they know the players have this much power? 

It's fascinating too as surely this means there's a large split in the senior players as Riley is mates with Klimkova. There needs to be some serious investigations into this and imo they need to get rid of all the players involved, no future selection. Yes Klimkova is a bad coach but there's no saying they wouldn't do this to a good one also. It's not like it would really make our results any worse tbh.

Is Riley mates with Klimkova?  Riley is no longer captain, Bowen is.

coochiee

Monto

What decent coach would ever want to touch the ferns now that they know the players have this much power? 

It's fascinating too as surely this means there's a large split in the senior players as Riley is mates with Klimkova. There needs to be some serious investigations into this and imo they need to get rid of all the players involved, no future selection. Yes Klimkova is a bad coach but there's no saying they wouldn't do this to a good one also. It's not like it would really make our results any worse tbh.

Is Riley mates with Klimkova?  Riley is no longer captain, Bowen is.

By all accounts yeah they are mates, but you're right that she's no longer captain. She is still a senior player and I just wonder if this makes for some more rifts in the team.

Monto

theprof

Monto

Doloras

I'm beginning to wonder - in the sense of bizarre coaching and selection decisions and a general air of cluelessness - that both the Football Ferns and the White Ferns are basket cases. Are our other national women's teams in similar conditions?

Black Ferns had similar issues prior to the world cup, Wayne Smith ended up taking over. Seems to be a common issue for some reason.

I've said this to many people before, but it's worth repeating. This isnt NZ female sports thing in any way. It's happening globally, the US womens football team for one. Recently it seem to be big in women's sports, as they transition from the semi-pro to actual pro (full time) players. I'm not sure whether its just players becoming bolder and their expectations of environment and training/coaching not being met, or just simply a bunch of older (male) coaches being too pushy and bossy/mean with players who they see as just young girls. Eitherway it has coincided with the push for equal pay for female athletes and therefore increased attention being paid to their sports as sponsors and fans are paying more attention. It's probably a combo of all of the above, but at the ends of the day I think we have a lot of young-ish female sports stars who are finding their voices and some are taking it too far and forming clicks within squads to get what they want. The management of these kinds of things has been poorly handled by clubs/franchises and international organisations. 
I'm not sure if this kind of thing occurred when professionalism hit male sprts teams, but maybe i wasnt aware of it happening?

It is true that it's very much a global thing but the Ferns seem to have some deep cultural issues. Someone I know played with someone who has been in the Ferns camp relatively recently (obviously not gonna name names) and their experience was that it was full of cliques and there was a lot of outright bullying, especially towards new players. By this account Satchell copped a lot of it (she's not the source of this story though).

There does seem to be some unique cultural rot in this team and anyone who's experienced this in their own workplace knows how hard this is to change.

I heard simillar from another source, who's had a bit to do with the Ferns, more so every 4 years when the Olympics comes around. It's apparently often been far from a welcoming environment for incoming young players.

theprof

Monto

theprof

Monto

Doloras

I'm beginning to wonder - in the sense of bizarre coaching and selection decisions and a general air of cluelessness - that both the Football Ferns and the White Ferns are basket cases. Are our other national women's teams in similar conditions?

Black Ferns had similar issues prior to the world cup, Wayne Smith ended up taking over. Seems to be a common issue for some reason.

I've said this to many people before, but it's worth repeating. This isnt NZ female sports thing in any way. It's happening globally, the US womens football team for one. Recently it seem to be big in women's sports, as they transition from the semi-pro to actual pro (full time) players. I'm not sure whether its just players becoming bolder and their expectations of environment and training/coaching not being met, or just simply a bunch of older (male) coaches being too pushy and bossy/mean with players who they see as just young girls. Eitherway it has coincided with the push for equal pay for female athletes and therefore increased attention being paid to their sports as sponsors and fans are paying more attention. It's probably a combo of all of the above, but at the ends of the day I think we have a lot of young-ish female sports stars who are finding their voices and some are taking it too far and forming clicks within squads to get what they want. The management of these kinds of things has been poorly handled by clubs/franchises and international organisations. 
I'm not sure if this kind of thing occurred when professionalism hit male sprts teams, but maybe i wasnt aware of it happening?

It is true that it's very much a global thing but the Ferns seem to have some deep cultural issues. Someone I know played with someone who has been in the Ferns camp relatively recently (obviously not gonna name names) and their experience was that it was full of cliques and there was a lot of outright bullying, especially towards new players. By this account Satchell copped a lot of it (she's not the source of this story though).

There does seem to be some unique cultural rot in this team and anyone who's experienced this in their own workplace knows how hard this is to change.

Asolutely agree there are definately some "cool kid" cliques in that group, who are clearly trying to run the joint. Whilst i dont think Klimkova was the right person for the job, I dont think it would be an easy environment to find success in with all those personalities already running things. You'd hope that as the older players move on that this might change a bit?

One thing I noticed - maybe I'm reading too far into it, maybe not - is that player outside the 'core' players often get given a high squad number when they play friendlies. 

Typically, in international football you'll be numbered 1-23 (or however many are in the squad), however you'll see fringe Ferns players wearing 29 or whatever (eg Fraser wearing 28 or Kitching wearing 29). This makes it quite clear who is 'fringe' versus 'core' and shows a bit of 'us' versus 'them' - to me at least - where senior players don't appear to want newer players wearing 'their' number, even when not there, so they remain unused.

This isn't something you see in the All Whites, for example, if Wood isn't there you'll have Ben Waine/Max Mata etc. wearing number 9; if anyone would have 'their' shirt number reserved when away it would be Wood, yet it doesn't happen.

It's not cost, as it costs just as much to print name and number either way, so it has to be conscious decision to make them explicitly stand out as not 'among the regulars'.

We need a rebuild... Olympics is a great time to do that. Usher out the old and bring in the future and create the culture you want.

Assuming we get a new coach, now is the time to change culture etc, New coach in, new standards etc. Fit it, or retire. 

I can't see NZF tolerating a player mutiny twice in quick succession.

Still I wonder what the incident was?

It's just all sad.
Instead of getting exciting about the Olympics and speculate how many goals Fraser will score we have read this crap.
A year ago we had a great World Cup momentum and all that seems gone. Who ever is involved in this bullshark needs to be fired.

Come on down Mr Mayne.big chance for him.  Hope he steps up and gets the squad playing well. 

This has been very unusual in that apart from the last few days there hasn’t been a lot of leaking and accusations in the media. 

The coach has been able to come and go twice, a young talent has gone and we don’t know what the issue was. 

On a broader note we’ve seen public rifts within the Ferns, the Phoenix and the Matildas recently. 

Is it because the players have more power in the women’s game? IE the managers and federation are more firmly established in the men’s game? Is it as some are suggesting growing pains of a professional sport which has not been professional long? Is it because opportunities are more restricted on the women’s side? If that is true…

Is it because we’ve developed top players ahead of top managers? 

Or none of the above?

Monto

Doloras

I'm beginning to wonder - in the sense of bizarre coaching and selection decisions and a general air of cluelessness - that both the Football Ferns and the White Ferns are basket cases. Are our other national women's teams in similar conditions?

Black Ferns had similar issues prior to the world cup, Wayne Smith ended up taking over. Seems to be a common issue for some reason.

I take it that you mean the Rugby team which is like comparing the Chatham Islands to Brazil. Their World Cup had only 12 teams and was contested in only two locations, the large metropolis of Whangarei and Auckland where they had to provide half time entertainment from some pop star to boost the crowd.

whatever

Monto

Doloras

I'm beginning to wonder - in the sense of bizarre coaching and selection decisions and a general air of cluelessness - that both the Football Ferns and the White Ferns are basket cases. Are our other national women's teams in similar conditions?

Black Ferns had similar issues prior to the world cup, Wayne Smith ended up taking over. Seems to be a common issue for some reason.

I take it that you mean the Rugby team which is like comparing the Chatham Islands to Brazil. Their World Cup had only 12 teams and was contested in only two locations, the large metropolis of Whangarei and Auckland where they had to provide half time entertainment from some pop star to boost the crowd.

He's referring to the Black Ferns coach prior Wayne Smith (Glenn Moore?) being replacing after accusations of bullying etc by a player (via social media), and a indepth review by NZ Rugby. Complaints of toxic environment etc, so yes some similar issues