He skipped it for West Brom, not Hamilton Wanderers. A bit of a difference as he was already a professional, not quite the same as the West's situation and he had already appeared at the 2007 U17 World Cup.
I wasn't necessarily suggesting that the two situations were exactly alike, but more that it was very ironic that AP used Chris Wood as an example in his outburst of passion.
More info in this article from Andrew V, including details of Buckingham's communication with Wests
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/10...
Feel sorry for Buckingham in all this. Mostly admire the work Edge and co do at Ole/Wests, but strongly disagree with their apparent stance on this standoff.
Sounds like NZF have offered them an alternative date for their Chatham Cup quarter final, but they have turned it down. If so piss poor.
Heraf is suspended, Bucks is an up and coming NZ coach. I don’t think he will be coaching a solely route one approach.
We all know that this isn't about the Chatham Cup. As I said previously in this thread, Declan has been very open about his view that age-grade tournaments are a waste of time and resources, so this shouldn't be surprising to anyone.
And if, judging by this thread, the main benefit of these tournaments is that occasionally some players get spotted and get professional trial opportunities out of that, then if Ole players can get those same opportunities (and also the scholarship ones in the US) through Ole (and we know that they can and do), what is the benefit of them being involved in these tournaments? And if the answer to that question is 'experience of lifetime/pinnacle of the career' for some of the players (as it undoubtedly would be), is that worth NZF spending hundreds of thousands on these tournaments?
More info in this article from Andrew V, including details of Buckingham's communication with Wests
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/10...
Feel sorry for Buckingham in all this. Mostly admire the work Edge and co do at Ole/Wests, but strongly disagree with their apparent stance on this standoff.
Sounds like NZF have offered them an alternative date for their Chatham Cup quarter final, but they have turned it down. If so piss poor.
Heraf is suspended, Bucks is an up and coming NZ coach. I don’t think he will be coaching a solely route one approach.
We all know that this isn't about the Chatham Cup. As I said previously in this thread, Declan has been very open about his view that age-grade tournaments are a waste of time and resources, so this shouldn't be surprising to anyone.
And if, judging by this thread, the main benefit of these tournaments is that occasionally some players get spotted and get professional trial opportunities out of that, then if Ole players can get those same opportunities (and also the scholarship ones in the US) through Ole (and we know that they can and do), what is the benefit of them being involved in these tournaments? And if the answer to that 'experience of lifetime/pinnacle of the career' for some of the players (as it undoubtedly would be), is that worth NZF spending hundreds of thousands on these tournaments?
NZ Football telling Oceania it's not gonna come to men's age-group tournaments would be a fun meeting.
Why would the rest of Oceania care - they'd qualify ahead of us. Fifa on the other hand might not be so keen - no one likes to see a team humiliated.
What's most disappointing is, this really was shaping up to be our best ever age group side with a handful of eperienced professionals already playing and another core group signed with clubs. It would be a great shame if they lost the opportunity to play on the biggest stage.
Why would the rest of Oceania care - they'd qualify ahead of us. Fifa on the other hand might not be so keen - no one likes to see a team humiliated.
What's most disappointing is, this really was shaping up to be our best ever age group side with a handful of eperienced professionals already playing and another core group signed with clubs. It would be a great shame if they lost the opportunity to play on the biggest stage.
As a federation, I reckon OFC would be well within their rights to say, for example, you don't want to attend these ones? Well you're barred from other ones as well. We're talking about $1m across four age-group teams across two years. There are benefits to WC participation beyond scouting. Experiencing that atmosphere and level and seeing what it takes is a big one (Danny Hay talks about it here: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/97443437/mindset-the-key-as-national-under17-mens-footballers-prepare-for-world-cup-opener). Another is the carrot it provides for kids in NZ. If every other sport offers national age-group opportunities but football goes, meh, what a waste of money, that makes football a less attractive option.
Just trying to inject some reality into this.
Players want to be playing professional football. International football is a side outcome of professional success, not the goal.
It's profoundly logical that players in systems where it is hard to be discovered would want to put themselves on show at an age grade tournament.
It's profoundly logical that players in an established pathway, don't want to ruin their success by playing NZF anti-football, and being associated with that.
I forget the name of the boy, but he's signed on to a Dutch second tier team... said in his interview, he deliberately withdrew from the u20's because he thought it was counter productive to becoming a professional.
If we play with the right mindset and give players a chance to shine, things will come of it. McGarry / Mata are both examples of what a decent showing at a tournament can do, which is open doors.
I want to see our best players play.
I forget the name of the boy, but he's signed on to a Dutch second tier team... said in his interview, he deliberately withdrew from the u20's because he thought it was counter productive to becoming a professional.
If we play with the right mindset and give players a chance to shine, things will come of it. McGarry / Mata are both examples of what a decent showing at a tournament can do, which is open doors.
I want to see our best players play.
Michael den Heijer is who you're talking about. It's important to note that no reason along those lines has been given for any of the absentees in the current situation - it's clashes with weeks 7 and 8 of a 16-week pre-season in the Phoenix case, and clashes with important club games in the Western Suburbs case.
I forget the name of the boy, but he's signed on to a Dutch second tier team... said in his interview, he deliberately withdrew from the u20's because he thought it was counter productive to becoming a professional.
If we play with the right mindset and give players a chance to shine, things will come of it. McGarry / Mata are both examples of what a decent showing at a tournament can do, which is open doors.
I want to see our best players play.
Michael den Heijer is who you're talking about. It's important to note that no reason along those lines has been given for any of the absentees in the current situation - it's clashes with weeks 7 and 8 of a 16-week pre-season in the Phoenix case, and clashes with important club games in the Western Suburbs case.
More info in this article from Andrew V, including details of Buckingham's communication with Wests
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/10...
Feel sorry for Buckingham in all this. Mostly admire the work Edge and co do at Ole/Wests, but strongly disagree with their apparent stance on this standoff.
Sounds like NZF have offered them an alternative date for their Chatham Cup quarter final, but they have turned it down. If so piss poor.
Heraf is suspended, Bucks is an up and coming NZ coach. I don’t think he will be coaching a solely route one approach.
We all know that this isn't about the Chatham Cup. As I said previously in this thread, Declan has been very open about his view that age-grade tournaments are a waste of time and resources, so this shouldn't be surprising to anyone.
And if, judging by this thread, the main benefit of these tournaments is that occasionally some players get spotted and get professional trial opportunities out of that, then if Ole players can get those same opportunities (and also the scholarship ones in the US) through Ole (and we know that they can and do), what is the benefit of them being involved in these tournaments? And if the answer to that question is 'experience of lifetime/pinnacle of the career' for some of the players (as it undoubtedly would be), is that worth NZF spending hundreds of thousands on these tournaments?
I forget the name of the boy, but he's signed on to a Dutch second tier team... said in his interview, he deliberately withdrew from the u20's because he thought it was counter productive to becoming a professional.
If we play with the right mindset and give players a chance to shine, things will come of it. McGarry / Mata are both examples of what a decent showing at a tournament can do, which is open doors.
I want to see our best players play.
Michael den Heijer is who you're talking about. It's important to note that no reason along those lines has been given for any of the absentees in the current situation - it's clashes with weeks 7 and 8 of a 16-week pre-season in the Phoenix case, and clashes with important club games in the Western Suburbs case.
Moving the game would have meant bringing it forward a week (to this Saturday) or playing it the weekend meant for the semifinals. Understandable why neither was agreeable for them - the latter option would have meant not having NCAA players.
More info in this article from Andrew V, including details of Buckingham's communication with Wests
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/10...
Feel sorry for Buckingham in all this. Mostly admire the work Edge and co do at Ole/Wests, but strongly disagree with their apparent stance on this standoff.
Sounds like NZF have offered them an alternative date for their Chatham Cup quarter final, but they have turned it down. If so piss poor.
Heraf is suspended, Bucks is an up and coming NZ coach. I don’t think he will be coaching a solely route one approach.
We all know that this isn't about the Chatham Cup. As I said previously in this thread, Declan has been very open about his view that age-grade tournaments are a waste of time and resources, so this shouldn't be surprising to anyone.
And if, judging by this thread, the main benefit of these tournaments is that occasionally some players get spotted and get professional trial opportunities out of that, then if Ole players can get those same opportunities (and also the scholarship ones in the US) through Ole (and we know that they can and do), what is the benefit of them being involved in these tournaments? And if the answer to that question is 'experience of lifetime/pinnacle of the career' for some of the players (as it undoubtedly would be), is that worth NZF spending hundreds of thousands on these tournaments?
Are they, if most of those players will then never find themselves in a situation to draw on them?
I forget the name of the boy, but he's signed on to a Dutch second tier team... said in his interview, he deliberately withdrew from the u20's because he thought it was counter productive to becoming a professional.
If we play with the right mindset and give players a chance to shine, things will come of it. McGarry / Mata are both examples of what a decent showing at a tournament can do, which is open doors.
I want to see our best players play.
Michael den Heijer is who you're talking about. It's important to note that no reason along those lines has been given for any of the absentees in the current situation - it's clashes with weeks 7 and 8 of a 16-week pre-season in the Phoenix case, and clashes with important club games in the Western Suburbs case.
Moving the game would have meant bringing it forward a week (to this Saturday) or playing it the weekend meant for the semifinals. Understandable why neither was agreeable for them - the latter option would have meant not having NCAA players.
FWIW I have no qualms about Wests players not making themselves available. They have as much right to turn down a call up, if not moreso, than Singh and Cacace. I just don't feel that they're being upfront about why.
I forget the name of the boy, but he's signed on to a Dutch second tier team... said in his interview, he deliberately withdrew from the u20's because he thought it was counter productive to becoming a professional.
If we play with the right mindset and give players a chance to shine, things will come of it. McGarry / Mata are both examples of what a decent showing at a tournament can do, which is open doors.
I want to see our best players play.
Michael den Heijer is who you're talking about. It's important to note that no reason along those lines has been given for any of the absentees in the current situation - it's clashes with weeks 7 and 8 of a 16-week pre-season in the Phoenix case, and clashes with important club games in the Western Suburbs case.
Moving the game would have meant bringing it forward a week (to this Saturday) or playing it the weekend meant for the semifinals. Understandable why neither was agreeable for them - the latter option would have meant not having NCAA players.
FWIW I have no qualms about Wests players not making themselves available. They have as much right to turn down a call up, if not moreso, than Singh and Cacace. I just don't feel that they're being upfront about why.
If moving the Cup game leads to Wests still being compromised (in their opinion) you can see why they wouldn't want to do it. They clearly feel there isn't a situation where they can do both properly.
I wouldn't underestimate where the Cup/League sit for the Wests players v national duty.
Gotta feel for the other top players who HAVE gone to the U20’s camp and are being publicly classified as Tier 2 players, which many of them definitely aren’t. These players presence is being totally over shadowed. Hats off to the squad that goes to Tahiti, full support to them…
Wests are trying to win the Central League. If they want to be given a Handa licence then that itself is important
More info in this article from Andrew V, including details of Buckingham's communication with Wests
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/10...
Feel sorry for Buckingham in all this. Mostly admire the work Edge and co do at Ole/Wests, but strongly disagree with their apparent stance on this standoff.
Sounds like NZF have offered them an alternative date for their Chatham Cup quarter final, but they have turned it down. If so piss poor.
Heraf is suspended, Bucks is an up and coming NZ coach. I don’t think he will be coaching a solely route one approach.
We all know that this isn't about the Chatham Cup. As I said previously in this thread, Declan has been very open about his view that age-grade tournaments are a waste of time and resources, so this shouldn't be surprising to anyone.
And if, judging by this thread, the main benefit of these tournaments is that occasionally some players get spotted and get professional trial opportunities out of that, then if Ole players can get those same opportunities (and also the scholarship ones in the US) through Ole (and we know that they can and do), what is the benefit of them being involved in these tournaments? And if the answer to that question is 'experience of lifetime/pinnacle of the career' for some of the players (as it undoubtedly would be), is that worth NZF spending hundreds of thousands on these tournaments?
Are they, if most of those players will then never find themselves in a situation to draw on them?
#defeatist
Wests are trying to win the Central League. If they want to be given a Handa licence then that itself is important
Is it really though? Surely decent facilities, strong fan and player base and financially sufficient are more important.
Lets be honest its a Mickey Mouse League, just like the Northern League and the one in the South Island; they have been since the 90's when Super Club was brought in. Surely the chance to put your players in the shop window and head off overseas, bringing in player development fees etc. is what Wests (Edge) should be focusing on.
Declan gets results but he's always been a bit of a bell**d, even while playing at Waikato United. His father, Eddie, always came across as nicer of the two.
New Zealand is so fudgeed if their youth player not joining the national team. You telling me a few weeks training with Buckingham destroys their career?
Edge behaves like a guru and Phoenix should send them, no one believes that they need to train for the season start in October?
It is all stupid egomaniac politics from everyone and these players get dragged in.
For me it is very simple, if you get a call for your country you go, otherwise your out.
Wests are trying to win the Central League. If they want to be given a Handa licence then that itself is important
Is it really though? Surely decent facilities, strong fan and player base and financially sufficient are more important.
Lets be honest its a Mickey Mouse League, just like the Northern League and the one in the South Island; they have been since the 90's when Super Club was brought in. Surely the chance to put your players in the shop window and head off overseas, bringing in player development fees etc. is what Wests (Edge) should be focusing on.
Declan gets results but he's always been a bit of a bell**d, even while playing at Waikato United. His brother, Eddie, always came across as nicer of the two.
It's one of NZ Football's stated criteria.
Surely NZF and the Mainland, Central & Northern Federations can reschedule league or Chatham Cup games - so that teams, with U19 players are not penalised. They always reschedule ACFC Handy games, when they are away at CWC. Presume they will do same for TW.
Boy. It would be awkward if that had been proposed but declined.
It was proposed, it was declined....by Wests
To be fair to Declan, he's never made it a secret that he doesn't think that age-grade tournaments are good for player development, and that they're a bit of a waste of time and resources. And in my view, he's not wrong on that one - we (by which I mean fans) tend to attach much more importance to these tournaments than they actually have.
Declan didn't seem to mind U20 tournaments when he took Vanuatu U20s.
Declan didn't seem to think them a waste of time and resources when he said last month he believes New Zealand could go on and win one.
Declan would have to be even more stupid that people credit him, to not know that Heraf is not there and the U20 side will not spend the tournament camped in their own box.
Ole are desperate to win the Chatham cup / Central League double as it is good for business as it strengthens their claim for a Handa Prem spot.
More info in this article from Andrew V, including details of Buckingham's communication with Wests
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/10...
Feel sorry for Buckingham in all this. Mostly admire the work Edge and co do at Ole/Wests, but strongly disagree with their apparent stance on this standoff.
Sounds like NZF have offered them an alternative date for their Chatham Cup quarter final, but they have turned it down. If so piss poor.
Heraf is suspended, Bucks is an up and coming NZ coach. I don’t think he will be coaching a solely route one approach.
We all know that this isn't about the Chatham Cup. As I said previously in this thread, Declan has been very open about his view that age-grade tournaments are a waste of time and resources, so this shouldn't be surprising to anyone.
And if, judging by this thread, the main benefit of these tournaments is that occasionally some players get spotted and get professional trial opportunities out of that, then if Ole players can get those same opportunities (and also the scholarship ones in the US) through Ole (and we know that they can and do), what is the benefit of them being involved in these tournaments? And if the answer to that question is 'experience of lifetime/pinnacle of the career' for some of the players (as it undoubtedly would be), is that worth NZF spending hundreds of thousands on these tournaments?
Exactly. Not all football teams play the Ole/Wests way. Surely exposure to a different coach, unfamiliar conditions etc is useful for a young kid. A tourney of only 2-3 weeks can hardly damage a player’s career, or stifle their development long term.
Plus I don’t see Buckingham coaching as per Heraf with FFs - just don’t see it.
Declan gets results but he's always been a bit of a bell**d, even while playing at Waikato United. His brother, Eddie, always came across as nicer of the two.
brother? haha Eddie is Declan's father
Killjoy. I was just leaving that out there.
To be fair to Declan, he's never made it a secret that he doesn't think that age-grade tournaments are good for player development, and that they're a bit of a waste of time and resources. And in my view, he's not wrong on that one - we (by which I mean fans) tend to attach much more importance to these tournaments than they actually have.
Declan didn't seem to mind U20 tournaments when he took Vanuatu U20s.
Declan didn't seem to think them a waste of time and resources when he said last month he believes New Zealand could go on and win one.
Declan would have to be even more stupid that people credit him, to not know that Heraf is not there and the U20 side will not spend the tournament camped in their own box.
Ole are desperate to win the Chatham cup / Central League double as it is good for business as it strengthens their claim for a Handa Prem spot.
http://www.nzfootball.co.nz/newsarticle/65727
Jorge Akers (Havelock North Wanderers)
Joe Bell (University of Virginia)
Dino Botica (Bay Olympic)
Cameron Brown (Waitemata)
Matthew Conroy (Western Springs)
Boyd Curry (Onehunga Sports)
Willem Ebbinge (Wellington Phoenix / Scots College)
Callan Elliot (Wairarapa United)
Zac Jones (Wellington Phoenix / Wellington College)
Max Mata (Onehunga Sports)
Dane Schnell (Western Springs)
Kingsley Sinclair (Eastern Suburbs / Sacred Heart College)
Jordan Spain (Cashmere Technical)
Charles Spragg (Eastern Suburbs)
Robert Tipelu (Onehunga Sports)
Leon Van Den Hoven (Eastern Suburbs)
Oliver Whyte (Wellington Phoenix)
Trevor Zwetsloot (SV Werder Bremen)
So Onehunga Sports lose 3... and their coach.
Keegan Smith?
Not a 2nd rate team but a 3rd. If this is the best we can put out, god help us
Spent a couple of weeks in Auckland and caught up. Western Springs play Onehunga and both were terrible.
Also Spragg hasn't scored for Suburbs.
There is a hint of a decent spine though... we will have the best CB, CM and striker in the comp.... and going by Island goalies traditionally, that too.
There is a hint of a decent spine though... we will have the best CB, CM and striker in the comp.... and going by Island goalies traditionally, that too.
To be fair, chopping down a tree next to the ground and plonking it in goal would still mean we probably have the best keeper in the tournament.
This is still a decent team and good enough to win it for sure. Mata and Spragg are two good strikers and have had good scoring record in u20s and 17s. Also Zwetsloot who was apparently the best player in the camp early this year and is playing at a pretty good level. Also players like Elliot, Ebbinge and Whyte are also very good. We will be fine the Island teams at this level are only good with physicality.
How do we rate Ben Deeley? Was told by a teammate that he chose to pull out but has always seemed like the best player on the field whenever I've seen him play for Grammar
Ahhh..... have you forgotten the last 17’s qualifying campaign in Tahiti?
I recall SPRAGG getting Golden Boot & MVP at the qualifiers apparently made history 1st ever in Oceana to receive both awards!!
Watch this space dynamic duo on the prowl again in paradise Mata & Spragg (roar)
James Bo- Who's the player with the ball in your video?
James Bo- Who's the player with the ball in your video? Is that NZ U17 2017?
Think you will find that is Durante turning CR7 at the 2017 Confederations Cup
Declan gets results but he's always been a bit of a bell**d, even while playing at Waikato United. His brother, Eddie, always came across as nicer of the two.
brother? haha Eddie is Declan's father
My bad, I was pretty young when Declan, Cossey, Fellowes all dominated for Waikato.
Eddie Edge is a lunatic. A likable lunatic, but a lunatic nonetheless.
Eddie Edge is a lunatic. A likable lunatic, but a lunatic nonetheless.
Increasingly reminds me of Steptoe. The elder.
